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New Subscription Formulas vs FTP

pupurunpupurun spartaPosts: 537Member Uncommon

Is subscription and Free to Play(with shop) the only two ways a mmo game can go?

We ve heard of dying subscription games going much better after going FTP cause of the fast rise of population which mathematically leads to a certain percentage  actually spending some money on the shop. But how big is that number? Will they shop again?

Some games give you a better status if you shop once(DC universe) others offer subs with benefits while they allow to thousands of players taste what some have been paying 15$ for years. I think it can be confusing.

What makes me wonder is why haven't any of the mmos risked a different formula of subscription.Yes i DO mean a cheaper one.

My mind can give a purely subjective example(numbers are low for practical reasons):

you can have 1000 subbed players that are not enough with their 15.000$ per month

Now you go free to play and you get what? Double?Quadrible? ok you can even get 5000 players.Which percentage would take the sub? I 'd say less than initial cause many subbers leave when a game turns ftp and most of them try to gain from the change and spend less money only for the things they trully want.

Lets say you get 600 subbs.Thats 9000$. Now for the ftp players that will purchase anything from the shop....

Most of the time we hear that mmos that go FTP double their income. So lets say it makes 20.000$ overall.

That is 11.000 $ from shop.That number can go higher but its' almost definite it will not stay that high too long.

So eventually, supposed a game is doing well, you can get to a basis of 15.000-20.000 which could even go a bit higher but not for too long...

 

My idea:

21 days free trial and then a subscription of 9.90$ per month (or 45$ for six months and 80$ for a year).

Make the free trials start a specific date and end at another. This will insure large populations on starter zones and the creation of in-game social activities and friendships much easier. This way a large portion of the trial players would sub after the 21 days.I almost never sub on a game i haven't made friends in! This trial could be reapeated many times a year.

Example: You get 4000 trial players all at once . Starting areas packed. I f the game is good there is a high chance that many player would want to continue their adventure along with their friends and the cheap price helps them decide.

even if half sub you could get 2000 x 9.90 = 19800 

and most of all you could keep your old subscribers much easier cause they would feel "sold out'. I'd say you could keep them all! Why leave a game you been paying 15$ after it goes 9,90$ ???

So that would be 1000 x 9,90 = 9.900$

Plus many veterans returning cause of the price change.

And you need  only around 1000 new subbers from trial and you can get close to 20.000$.

That 20.000 can keep up more months that any 20.000 coming from the first months of a ftp game.It's logical...

Most important. You still have a subbed game and you don't get your average underage imature badmouthing ganking punk named IFUCKYOURMOM destroying your game's image....

Please feel free to share your opinion. The numbers above come only from my mind based on my experiences and what i've read so i could be wrong...

 

Comments

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by pupurun

    What makes me wonder is why haven't any of the mmos risked a different formula of subscription.Yes i DO mean a cheaper one.

    That is mostly because most companies do not want to lose money, which is a case of lower sub rate.


    Considering the supply/demand remains the same, lowering your sub results in loss of money only.


    15 USD is already pocket money and cheap service.

  • mmoskimmoski plymouthPosts: 282Member

    The Days of P2P are over, unless you hold an IP of such high demand, games need to amazingly unique or outstandingly good too allow them to charge monthly fees. End of story, beginning of new era.


     


    Quite a good example of why....


     


  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon

    You are trying to wrangle what is fair. Most companies don't see fair, they only see more. Alot of companies aren't just based on Profit, they are based on growth and Growth means more.

     

    The thing with MMO games is, they have been around $15 a month for over 20 years. We know games lose subs so your company is booked to shrink. A cash shop can be made dynamic based on what I want to spend.

    Freemium is the new model, allowing a $15 a month person to play but allowing the $20 here and there to play as well. Free usually means you get to watch, not much more. It will kill PvP because you can pay to win. It's why Games are now defining themself as PvP or PvE. I actually prefer this. It's transparent and I don't feel like I'm being scammed or getting hooked with a bait and switch.

    Tera for example, if they told me they will go F2P with a cash shop in 4 years, I'd buy it anyway because they were honest up front. I'd prefer they also tell me they appreciate that and will give me blatant advantage on PvE in that game for doing that and let the people who wait cry moar. As long as it's up fron and honest, I'm willing to look at any system.

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member Common

    Originally posted by mmoski


    The Days of P2P are over, [...]

    Also all future computers will run unix, all future cpus will use gallium-arsenide, and the PC is dead as a gaming platform.

    Oh wait ...

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by pupurun

    What makes me wonder is why haven't any of the mmos risked a different formula of subscription.

    They have - extended trials and freemium being the two most common alternatives -  and most people are aware of that. However, in places like this, if it isn't subscription then it gets dumped into the F2P category and rejected as bad.

     

    Yes i DO mean a cheaper one.

    Because leaving money on the table is DUMB.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member Common

    Originally posted by free2play

    The thing with MMO games is, they have been around $15 a month for over 20 years.

    I beg you pardon ? First MMO was Meridian 59 in 1996 ... thats at most 16 years.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member

    Originally posted by Adamantine

    Originally posted by free2play

    The thing with MMO games is, they have been around $15 a month for over 20 years.

    I beg you pardon ? First MMO was Meridian 59 in 1996 ... thats at most 16 years.

    Plus i think the £8-$15 came along with EQ1 which is coming up to it's 13 year.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by free2play



     1 - Free usually means you get to watch, not much more.

    2 - It will kill PvP because you can pay to win.

    3 - It's why Games are now defining themself as PvP or PvE.

     

     

    1. Misinformation is completely unhelpful.  For reference:  


                 If you have examples of free to play games that support your claim, please post which they are and what the restrictions are. The usual response is something to the effect of "Just look around, man! If you can't see it then you're blind!" If that's your argument then please post it because it further reinforces my point. :D


     


     


    2. Since there are dozens of MMOPFS and MMORTS that prove this wrong, I don't get why you guys keep repeating it other than to try to convince yourselves


     


    3. Not even sure what this has to do with anything.


     


    I'd really like to see just one thread on F2P where the majority of arguments against it aren't the same old regurgitated myths and misinformation.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Adamantine

    Originally posted by free2play

    The thing with MMO games is, they have been around $15 a month for over 20 years.

    I beg you pardon ? First MMO was Meridian 59 in 1996 ... thats at most 16 years.

    Exactly. And the earlier ones were $10/month up until about 2002 or so.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon

     

    Here's a page with a list of various business models. Figured this might be relevant to the thread:

    http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/article/2008/05/05/it-s-all-game-mmorpg-business-models.html

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,028Member Uncommon

    I would take $25 a month, no additional fees and the entire game included instead of all that crap.

    No box sales, no microtransactions, no fees for changing name or server and no paid expansions. It would generate plenty of money for a good game, while a bad game would be gone in a few months.

    $30 a month would work as well. But of course 2 free weeks or so before charging anything so you can't sell junk.

    Otherwise, I prefer B2P and I will buy both GW2 and Class IV to support that model.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,028Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by free2play

    Revisions for all the little nerd, Robert Shapiro wannabe's.

    We pay the same for a Sub through the life of the game. WoW subs have gone up $0.00, EVE sub rates are unchanged in 8 years, EQ subs havn't gone up in the course of the game.

    Note, all figures are general and not applicable in a court of law. (usefull for people who think they want to win the forum tho)

    Disclaimer: These are the views of me, not this Site

    ESRB does not rate content on forums, your medication needs refilled. You need to get off the red bull. You really need to ask, why do you come to forums when you know the people here usually reply in a casual fashion?

    Oh and as for your pretty little chart, you play EVE too I see. Spreadsheets in Eriador? No instanced travel on F2P, no quest packs, lets run over to Rivendell, get told to run back to Thorins hall to be told to go back to Rivendell. All that for one epic quest. F2P is a gateway.

    And just to be clear, you guys think you look really smart on a forum? Or do you honestly know, deep down you look like idiots?

    - Apology to the OP. Your thread is derailed and I am partly to blame because I know better. Some times I can't help but crawl under the bridge with the cockroaches. It's the weakness of breathing.

    Actually, Wow and Eve have instead added RMT shops where they sell stuff for actual money so the average player pays more now than 3 years ago in both. Before all content was included, it ain't now and that means that the price have risen.

    Yeah, ou don't have to buy the stuff but before you paid $15 for all content, now you pay $15 for most content.

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by free2play



     1 - Free usually means you get to watch, not much more.

    2 - It will kill PvP because you can pay to win.

    3 - It's why Games are now defining themself as PvP or PvE.

     

     

    1. Misinformation is completely unhelpful.  For reference:  


                 If you have examples of free to play games that support your claim, please post which they are and what the restrictions are. The usual response is something to the effect of "Just look around, man! If you can't see it then you're blind!" If that's your argument then please post it because it further reinforces my point. :D


     


     


    2. Since there are dozens of MMOPFS and MMORTS that prove this wrong, I don't get why you guys keep repeating it other than to try to convince yourselves


     


    3. Not even sure what this has to do with anything.


     


    I'd really like to see just one thread on F2P where the majority of arguments against it aren't the same old regurgitated myths and misinformation.

     

    Myths and misinformation?    Come on the very acroynm F2P is a misnomer.   Sure you may not have payed a single dime to play, but some other unfortunate soul shelled out some cash for those items you bought with in game currency.   The basic building model for P2W games is offer basic or partial game mechanics for free, and charge for the premium or completed game mechanic.

     

    Do you really think the game would still be around if it was totally free?   The only viable situation that could ever happen is if a company had a hugely successful game and used that totally free game to lure or keep their customers playing the hugely successful game.

     

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by thinktank001

    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by free2play



     1 - Free usually means you get to watch, not much more.

    2 - It will kill PvP because you can pay to win.

    3 - It's why Games are now defining themself as PvP or PvE.

     

    1. Misinformation is completely unhelpful.  For reference:  


                 If you have examples of free to play games that support your claim, please post which they are and what the restrictions are. The usual response is something to the effect of "Just look around, man! If you can't see it then you're blind!" If that's your argument then please post it because it further reinforces my point. :D


     


     


    2. Since there are dozens of MMOPFS and MMORTS that prove this wrong, I don't get why you guys keep repeating it other than to try to convince yourselves


     


    3. Not even sure what this has to do with anything.


     


    I'd really like to see just one thread on F2P where the majority of arguments against it aren't the same old regurgitated myths and misinformation.

    Myths and misinformation?    Come on the very acroynm F2P is a misnomer.   Sure you may not have payed a single dime to play, but some other unfortunate soul shelled out some cash for those items you bought with in game currency.   The basic building model for P2W games is offer basic or partial game mechanics for free, and charge for the premium or completed game mechanic.

    Do you really think the game would still be around if it was totally free?   The only viable situation that could ever happen is if a company had a hugely successful game and used that totally free game to lure or keep their customers playing the hugely successful game.

    That you reject F2P for being misrepresentation yet you have made up the label P2W is kind of telling that you are more upset that it isn't what you want rather than being upset with any given flaw or any aspect of the points that I presented.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by thinktank001

    Sure you may not have payed a single dime to play 

    F2P implies no more than it is in your quote.


    It does not imply the company isn't making any profit.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by thinktank001

    Do you really think the game would still be around if it was totally free?   The only viable situation that could ever happen is if a company had a hugely successful game and used that totally free game to lure or keep their customers playing the hugely successful game.

     

     

     

    It does NOT have to be totally free. The label is pretty accurate if it is free for a MAJORITY of players. And research has shown that (posted many times here before, use google) MOST MMO players do NOT pay.

     

  • pupurunpupurun spartaPosts: 537Member Uncommon

    So guys have you got any new ideas on HOW we can keep a game alive with subscritpions but not having empty servers?

    And i do mean without the FTP formula...

  • ForTheCityForTheCity Los Angeles, CAPosts: 307Member

    I doubt that many games can still succeed as a P2P. Look at APB: Reloaded. It failed as a P2P, but now is starting to enjoy slight success with its F2P model. There are so many F2P options out these days there is no reason to play P2P unless you really want to play games like Star Wars. 

  • pupurunpupurun spartaPosts: 537Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ForTheCity

    I doubt that many games can still succeed as a P2P. Look at APB: Reloaded. It failed as a P2P, but now is starting to enjoy slight success with its F2P model. There are so many F2P options out these days there is no reason to play P2P unless you really want to play games like Star Wars. 

    I guess the main reason why many people still want p2p games is the better quality of gamers. No doubt about it.

    I am playing AOC since launch...I went through the good and the bad and the population was a main issue..Then we had the ftp model...and people going around naked named C.O.N.A.N and creating guilds named The Pokemons

    You see we had PVE, PVP, RP PV and RP PVP servers at launch and when the game turned ftp we only got PVP and PVE.

    Another issue that a ftp model affects and noone ever discusses about is the generalization of gameplay.

    I bet that if Funcom created a strictly RP server with a low sub price it would have more people than that sort of FFA pvp blood and glory type of server they did

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by pupurun

    So guys have you got any new ideas on HOW we can keep a game alive with subscritpions but not having empty servers?

    Why there should be subscription a priori?


    If there is a reason to believe the game will make more money without subscription, it should be done so.

  • kashiegamerkashiegamer Online City, NYPosts: 263Member

    Whenever I look at LoL I remind myself that f2p games can actually succeed without disrupting the balance of the game.

    My Blog About Hellgate Global, an ARPG/FPS hybrid MMO:
    http://kashiewannaplay.wordpress.com/

    Hellgate Global Official Fan Blog
    http://t3funhellgate.wordpress.com/

    Currently Playing: Hellgate Global, LoL, Skyrim, Morrowind
    Recently Played: Cardmon Hero, Cabal, Oblivion

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    I'm pretty sure there's a few mmo that use 10$ model anyway.

    F2P dont' always mean cheaper.  My guildmates spend 500$ a month on F2P games.  I'm sure you see news from some other MMO where people spend rediculous amount of money.  Many company just made games F2P so the server is alive.  They rely on the very few people who spend rediculous amount of money to keep the game going.

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by pupurun

    So guys have you got any new ideas on HOW we can keep a game alive with subscritpions but not having empty servers?

    And i do mean without the FTP formula...

     

    Easy just fix the damn game.   It is kind of sad that out of the past 12 years there are only a handful of games that could be said to be functional.  The rest are so damn buggy they drive most of their customers away.

     

    The only other option I see is to focus on the sandbox aspect, or if it is themepark make sure there are regular smaller updates that add new content and at least a yearly update that changes some major aspects of the game.

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