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Seems like the game has peaked on XFire

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  • PuremallacePuremallace Member Posts: 1,856

    Originally posted by teveritte

    WTH! Happened to Rift? I thought that game was still alive but according to xfire more people play Lotro and DC universe than Rift. I hate to see that game die. The story sucked but the game was polished and pvp was good

    All that means is people who play free to play games use x-fire. I use Raptr which is basically like x-fire, but less advertisements and I do not have hip hop artist trying to friend me.

  • Vato26Vato26 Member Posts: 3,930

    Originally posted by Tyvolus

     



    Originally posted by Vato26




    Originally posted by Tyvolus

     






    Originally posted by Vato26








    Originally posted by DarLorkar










    Your belief has nothing to do with the validity of the X-fire statistics when you try to apply them to the non-X-fire using population.  The facts still remain, and have yet to be refuted by you nor the other self-serving pro-X-fire people:  No one knows the percentage of the total gaming population that uses X-fire, therefore it is pure self-serving bias to use these statistics outside the X-fire using community. 

    In the statistic's trade, that is known as "Bad statistics" and would immediately get you laughed out of the room for presenting them.











    Using your own words, No one knows the total game population, except the dev's who are not talking.

    But we DO know how many x-fire users have and play a game when they log in with it.

    Using that info you CAN see a trend over time of that part of the game population in that game.

    Or are you saying that that is not true? Now if that is true, trying to refute it or ignore it, a sample of people that HAVE to own the game, and HAVE to be playing it to get the info. How can you turn around and say it is worthless?

    It is what it is. A sample of people, that use x-fire, that own the game, and that played it.

    Sounds like a pretty good piece of info to me. Would i make any overarching predictions on it like the OP? No, but i would for sure take it into account along with other info i had.









    No.  Using the X-fire info, you can see the trends WITHIN X-fire.  It doesn't show any trends outside of X-fire as there are FAR too many variables that haven't been accounted for.  That's a fact.

    Also, what you are describing is nowhere near proper sampling technique if you are trying to use this data outside of X-fire.







     

    I played AION, RIFT and WAR....all games had Huge releases and reflected on xfire. a few months later, they all nose dived on xfire and servers were either closing/mergining or ghost towns. xfire does indeed reflect trends in gaming. it doesnt control or dictate -- simply reflects whats happening by relaying the gaming trends of a sample of gamers. we can predict, with a fair degree of certainty what is in store for SWTOR based on how it does on xfire. If it isnt top 5 in the next 3 months, it is trending downward and not gaining subs.

    And it really is as simple as that.




    Your conjecture means noting when it comes to proof.  Provide facts.  Otherwise it's just your self-serving bias in trying to interpret X-fire data to the total gaming population.


     

    you need me to hold your hand ? FACT RIFT, WAR, and AION had HUGE RELEASES. FACT ALL 3 WERE top 10 Xfire during said HUGE releases. FACT: xfire numbers dipped, at about same time servers were closing in said games, merging and/or were ghost towns. That enough facts for ya ?

    You need me to hold YOUR hand?  Well, I'll explain the blue highlight to you since you missed it.

    First:  All you are doing is conjecturing.  Telling tales without proof to back it up.

    Second:  Proof = facts... actual numbers... screenshots to prove your case.  You have provided none of those. 

    Conjecture =/= facts.

     

    Again, conjecture means nothing when it comes to proof.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773

    Originally posted by Teala

    You know what is funny about this whole thing, if SWTOR ever does hit, say #2, people will be here pointing at xfire and say "see game is doing great!"

    I know and it's why I now have popcorn in my lap.

    Well I am looking at kevin hart laugh at my pain at the moment as well.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • KaocanKaocan Member UncommonPosts: 1,270

    I think, after this thread, we have finally prove one thing almost exclusively. Most people that use XFire are finiky game players, who play the next and best on the market for short periods of time when they are first released, and then quickly move on to the next and best thats coming out. And if no next and best is available, most XFire users return to thier standard game of choice, WoW. 

    Pretty much thats about all this thread has proven as true. 

    (DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)

  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,345

    Yeah, numbers going down now.

  • PuremallacePuremallace Member Posts: 1,856

    Originally posted by Kaocan

    I think, after this thread, we have finally prove one thing almost exclusively. Most people that use XFire are finiky game players, who play the next and best on the market for short periods of time when they are first released, and then quickly move on to the next and best thats coming out. And if no next and best is available, most XFire users return to thier standard game of choice, WoW. 

    Pretty much thats about all this thread has proven as true. 

    I'll sign off on this. 37 pages to prove x-fires users are bandwagon hypocrites. I switched to RAPTR btw... just saying

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,015

    Originally posted by Teala

    You know what is funny about this whole thing, if SWTOR ever does hit, say #2, people will be here pointing at xfire and say "see game is doing great!"

    No they wouldn't.

    I've seen this argument in many forms over the years. It's the "you'd be changing your tune if things were in your favor" argument.

    Anyone who changes their stance because things swing their way really doesn't believe in their argument so much as "being right".

    I can assure you that any reasonable person who decries X-Fire would also do the same if a game they were supporting was shown in a positive light with that service.

    The service shows a slice of a certian demographic. Nothing more.

    To that end, and as an example, if I were an investor and I wanted to invest in a casual game would I be going to X-fire or would I be using some other set of statistics that actually measured what the casual "non-gamers" would be interested in?

    I find it hard to believe people would point me toward x-fire to measure what casual, non-gamer players would like. It would certainly be a bad use of my money

     

    More on topic, another example: let's say that only 20 year old players use x-fire. Of course that's not true I'm just using the age as an example. You can pick any age, old or young.

    And let's say that this set of 20 year olds plays SWToR (or any game)  but that demographic hasn't increased it's SWToR subs. Let's say it's steady.

    Now let's say that 30 year olds who don't use x-fire have been increasing their subs by thousands per week. X-Fire is not going to capture that. The reverse could be true. Let's say that the same 30 year olds who flocked to SWToR decided over a few months the game wasn't worth it. So they started leaving in droves.

    X-fire won't capture that. It will capture the steady 20 year old demographic that uses x-fire.

    And again, it doesn't have to be 20 vs 30. It could be ages you want. Or college degree vs non-college degree. Or Europeans over Americans.

    It's just not a great tool for measuring the entire game playing demographic and probably has better chances of measuring a certain type of gamer preferences.

     

     

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  • Vato26Vato26 Member Posts: 3,930

    Originally posted by Tyvolus

     



    Originally posted by Vato26




    Originally posted by Tyvolus

     






    Originally posted by Vato26








    Originally posted by Tyvolus

     










    Originally posted by Vato26












    Originally posted by DarLorkar














    Your belief has nothing to do with the validity of the X-fire statistics when you try to apply them to the non-X-fire using population.  The facts still remain, and have yet to be refuted by you nor the other self-serving pro-X-fire people:  No one knows the percentage of the total gaming population that uses X-fire, therefore it is pure self-serving bias to use these statistics outside the X-fire using community. 

    In the statistic's trade, that is known as "Bad statistics" and would immediately get you laughed out of the room for presenting them.

















    Using your own words, No one knows the total game population, except the dev's who are not talking.

    But we DO know how many x-fire users have and play a game when they log in with it.

    Using that info you CAN see a trend over time of that part of the game population in that game.

    Or are you saying that that is not true? Now if that is true, trying to refute it or ignore it, a sample of people that HAVE to own the game, and HAVE to be playing it to get the info. How can you turn around and say it is worthless?

    It is what it is. A sample of people, that use x-fire, that own the game, and that played it.

    Sounds like a pretty good piece of info to me. Would i make any overarching predictions on it like the OP? No, but i would for sure take it into account along with other info i had.















    No.  Using the X-fire info, you can see the trends WITHIN X-fire.  It doesn't show any trends outside of X-fire as there are FAR too many variables that haven't been accounted for.  That's a fact.

    Also, what you are describing is nowhere near proper sampling technique if you are trying to use this data outside of X-fire.













     

    I played AION, RIFT and WAR....all games had Huge releases and reflected on xfire. a few months later, they all nose dived on xfire and servers were either closing/mergining or ghost towns. xfire does indeed reflect trends in gaming. it doesnt control or dictate -- simply reflects whats happening by relaying the gaming trends of a sample of gamers. we can predict, with a fair degree of certainty what is in store for SWTOR based on how it does on xfire. If it isnt top 5 in the next 3 months, it is trending downward and not gaining subs.

    And it really is as simple as that.









    Your conjecture means noting when it comes to proof.  Provide facts.  Otherwise it's just your self-serving bias in trying to interpret X-fire data to the total gaming population.







     

    you need me to hold your hand ? FACT RIFT, WAR, and AION had HUGE RELEASES. FACT ALL 3 WERE top 10 Xfire during said HUGE releases. FACT: xfire numbers dipped, at about same time servers were closing in said games, merging and/or were ghost towns. That enough facts for ya ?




    You need me to hold YOUR hand?  Well, I'll explain the blue highlight to you since you missed it.

    First:  All you are doing is conjecturing.  Telling tales without proof to back it up.

    Second:  Proof = facts... actual numbers... screenshots to prove your case.  You have provided none of those. 

    Conjecture =/= facts.

     

    Again, conjecture means nothing when it comes to proof.


     

    oh, thats ok. I think the entire community here (myself included) is well aware you learned a new word in school today. Safe to say, I have had my fill of your new word, "conjecture" and your improper usage of it as it pertains to the facts you cant bring yourself to accept.

    So, you lower yourself to insults because you cannot provide proof.  Thanks for proving my point!

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Teala

    You know what is funny about this whole thing, if SWTOR ever does hit, say #2, people will be here pointing at xfire and say "see game is doing great!"

    No they wouldn't.

    I've seen this argument in many forms over the years. It's the "you'd be changing your tune if things were in your favor" argument.

    Anyone who changes their stance because things swing their way really doesn't believe in their argument so much as "being right".

    I can assure you that any reasonable person who decries X-Fire would also do the same if a game they were supporting was shown in a positive light with that service.

    The service shows a slice of a certian demographic. Nothing more.

    To that end, and as an example, if I were an investor and I wanted to invest in a casual game would I be going to X-fire or would I be using some other set of statistics that actually measured what the casual "non-gamers" would be interested in?

    I find it hard to believe people would point me toward x-fire to measure what casual, non-gamer players would like. It would certainly be a bad use of my money

     

    More on topic, another example: let's say that only 20 year old players use x-fire. Of course that's not true I'm just using the age as an example. You can pick any age, old or young.

    And let's say that this set of 20 year olds plays SWToR (or any game)  but that demographic hasn't increased it's SWToR subs. Let's say it's steady.

    Now let's say that 30 year olds who don't use x-fire have been increasing their subs by thousands per week. X-Fire is not going to capture that. The reverse could be true. Let's say that the same 30 year olds who flocked to SWToR decided over a few months the game wasn't worth it. So they started leaving in droves.

    X-fire won't capture that. It will capture the steady 20 year old demographic that uses x-fire.

    And again, it doesn't have to be 20 vs 30. It could be ages you want. Or college degree vs non-college degree. Or Europeans over Americans.

    It's just not a great tool for measuring the entire game playing demographic and probably has better chances of measuring a certain type of gamer preferences.

     

     



    I am baaack:P

    Do not care what people use it. Not looking for anything other than that SOME people thast MUSt own and PLAY the game use it.

    That you can see over a given time period how many hours are logged.

    You can see if that stays the same, goes up, or goes down.

    If those swings are big enough, then you can and will see a trend towards that game there on x-fire.

    Dismissing it, because you can not prove it to a certainty is foolish:) Depending on it absolutely is foolsih.

    All we as gamers have are places like x-fire and others that we have to watch and add together to see trends on games.

    Anyone that says you can not see trends from these sites are not being honest. Instead they attack it through the math or bias or whatever:P

    No it is not and never can be 100% accurate, but how about 75%? or even just 55%? Can they say with 100% accuracy that it is NOT showing trends? No.

    So trying to compare it to a 100% unbiased scientific poll of the whole gaming population of the world is just as wrong as saying that x-fire alone can predict anything 100% accurately.

    We have what we have, and we have to use that. And we have to take the fact that we will NEVER have it perfect either way. Just use what we have in the best and most honest way we can.

    To those that want to dismiss it, fine:)  I think you are wrong. And not being honest if you say that you can learn nothing from it at all, because it is not what you would use if your life depended on it.

    But how about if your life depended on seeing trends in games, and all you have is exactly what we have? X-fire and a few other sites like it? Can you honestly say that you would ignore it completely?

    You would rather not have any info at all? even if it was unscientific and biased? You would prefer a coin flip?

    No lifes were harmed i this post:) nor anyone else that i recall. just some words.

     

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Anyone that says you can not see trends from these sites are not being honest. Instead they attack it through the math or bias or whatever:P

    It shows trends WITH XFIRE USERS. That's it. It does NOT show overall gaming trends at all. That's the point. And the math isn't what's biased. It's the sample that's biased, which renders the whole thing moot.

    Doesn't matter if TOR has crappy numbers on the service or good ones. TOR could be #1 right now and the numbers would still be meaningless. It's a small self-selected sample that doesn't give an accurate picture of the gaming population as a whole, and always will be. 

  • TyvolusTyvolus Member Posts: 190

    Originally posted by Vato26

    Originally posted by Tyvolus
     


    Originally posted by Vato26



    Originally posted by Tyvolus
     





    Originally posted by Vato26






    Originally posted by Tyvolus
     








    Originally posted by Vato26









    Originally posted by DarLorkar











    Your belief has nothing to do with the validity of the X-fire statistics when you try to apply them to the non-X-fire using population.  The facts still remain, and have yet to be refuted by you nor the other self-serving pro-X-fire people:  No one knows the percentage of the total gaming population that uses X-fire, therefore it is pure self-serving bias to use these statistics outside the X-fire using community. 
    In the statistic's trade, that is known as "Bad statistics" and would immediately get you laughed out of the room for presenting them.









    Using your own words, No one knows the total game population, except the dev's who are not talking.
    But we DO know how many x-fire users have and play a game when they log in with it.
    Using that info you CAN see a trend over time of that part of the game population in that game.
    Or are you saying that that is not true? Now if that is true, trying to refute it or ignore it, a sample of people that HAVE to own the game, and HAVE to be playing it to get the info. How can you turn around and say it is worthless?
    It is what it is. A sample of people, that use x-fire, that own the game, and that played it.
    Sounds like a pretty good piece of info to me. Would i make any overarching predictions on it like the OP? No, but i would for sure take it into account along with other info i had.









    No.  Using the X-fire info, you can see the trends WITHIN X-fire.  It doesn't show any trends outside of X-fire as there are FAR too many variables that haven't been accounted for.  That's a fact.
    Also, what you are describing is nowhere near proper sampling technique if you are trying to use this data outside of X-fire.








     
    I played AION, RIFT and WAR....all games had Huge releases and reflected on xfire. a few months later, they all nose dived on xfire and servers were either closing/mergining or ghost towns. xfire does indeed reflect trends in gaming. it doesnt control or dictate -- simply reflects whats happening by relaying the gaming trends of a sample of gamers. we can predict, with a fair degree of certainty what is in store for SWTOR based on how it does on xfire. If it isnt top 5 in the next 3 months, it is trending downward and not gaining subs.
    And it really is as simple as that.






    Your conjecture means noting when it comes to proof.  Provide facts.  Otherwise it's just your self-serving bias in trying to interpret X-fire data to the total gaming population.





     
    you need me to hold your hand ? FACT RIFT, WAR, and AION had HUGE RELEASES. FACT ALL 3 WERE top 10 Xfire during said HUGE releases. FACT: xfire numbers dipped, at about same time servers were closing in said games, merging and/or were ghost towns. That enough facts for ya ?



    You need me to hold YOUR hand?  Well, I'll explain the blue highlight to you since you missed it.
    First:  All you are doing is conjecturing.  Telling tales without proof to back it up.
    Second:  Proof = facts... actual numbers... screenshots to prove your case.  You have provided none of those. 
    Conjecture =/= facts.
     
    Again, conjecture means nothing when it comes to proof.


     
    oh, thats ok. I think the entire community here (myself included) is well aware you learned a new word in school today. Safe to say, I have had my fill of your new word, "conjecture" and your improper usage of it as it pertains to the facts you cant bring yourself to accept.

    So, you lower yourself to insults because you cannot provide proof.  Thanks for proving my point!

    what point where you trying to make again ? I'm sorry it got lost in all the conjecture. As for proof, are you kidding me ? I listed factual examples of all the proof you requested. Oh and one more thing, and this isnt conjecture, SWTOR will be bleeding subs in 3 months -- and I dont need xfire to know that.

    Enjoy !!

  • Vato26Vato26 Member Posts: 3,930

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Teala

    You know what is funny about this whole thing, if SWTOR ever does hit, say #2, people will be here pointing at xfire and say "see game is doing great!"

    No they wouldn't.

    I've seen this argument in many forms over the years. It's the "you'd be changing your tune if things were in your favor" argument.

    Anyone who changes their stance because things swing their way really doesn't believe in their argument so much as "being right".

    I can assure you that any reasonable person who decries X-Fire would also do the same if a game they were supporting was shown in a positive light with that service.

    The service shows a slice of a certian demographic. Nothing more.

    To that end, and as an example, if I were an investor and I wanted to invest in a casual game would I be going to X-fire or would I be using some other set of statistics that actually measured what the casual "non-gamers" would be interested in?

    I find it hard to believe people would point me toward x-fire to measure what casual, non-gamer players would like. It would certainly be a bad use of my money

     

    More on topic, another example: let's say that only 20 year old players use x-fire. Of course that's not true I'm just using the age as an example. You can pick any age, old or young.

    And let's say that this set of 20 year olds plays SWToR (or any game)  but that demographic hasn't increased it's SWToR subs. Let's say it's steady.

    Now let's say that 30 year olds who don't use x-fire have been increasing their subs by thousands per week. X-Fire is not going to capture that. The reverse could be true. Let's say that the same 30 year olds who flocked to SWToR decided over a few months the game wasn't worth it. So they started leaving in droves.

    X-fire won't capture that. It will capture the steady 20 year old demographic that uses x-fire.

    And again, it doesn't have to be 20 vs 30. It could be ages you want. Or college degree vs non-college degree. Or Europeans over Americans.

    It's just not a great tool for measuring the entire game playing demographic and probably has better chances of measuring a certain type of gamer preferences.

     

     



    I am baaack:P

    Do not care what people use it. Not looking for anything other than that SOME people thast MUSt own and PLAY the game use it.

    That you can see over a given time period how many hours are logged.

    You can see if that stays the same, goes up, or goes down.

    If those swings are big enough, then you can and will see a trend towards that game there on x-fire.  That is true.  The trend can only be seen WITHIN X-fire using community.

    Dismissing it, because you can not prove it to a certainty is foolish:) Depending on it absolutely is foolsih. 

    All we as gamers have are places like x-fire and others that we have to watch and add together to see trends of the people that use progams like x-fire on games.  I fixed that for you to make it truthful.

    Anyone that says you can not see trends from these sites are not being honest.  Trends WITHIN the user base of those sites... yes.  Trends OUTSIDE the user base of those sites... completely false. Instead they attack it through the math or bias or whatever:P

    No it is not and never can be 100% accurate, but how about 75%? or even just 55%? Can they say with 100% accuracy that it is NOT showing trends? No.  It's called non-existant sampling procedures.  That makes it useless for trying to apply it on anything outside of it's own userbase.  Really, if you had taken any sort of statistics course you would've learned that.  You would also learn that sampling proceedures are never 100% accurate.  But, they are used to try to make the sample population as close to the total population in characteristics and composition as possible.  Thus, reducing one more extraneous variable that would taint the measured data.  There are none of those when trying to compare X-fire user trends with the non-X-fire using population.

    So trying to compare it to a 100% unbiased scientific poll of the whole gaming population of the world is just as wrong as saying that x-fire alone can predict anything 100% accurately.

    We have what we have, and we have to use that. And we have to take the fact that we will NEVER have it perfect either way. Just use what we have in the best and most honest way we can.  Using crap data to make a decision makes the decision crap.

    To those that want to dismiss it, fine:)  I think you are wrong.   And not being honest if you say that you can learn nothing from it at all  Which would make you wrong.  There is plenty to learn from the data.  But, only if applied WITHIN the X-fire using population.

     

  • Vato26Vato26 Member Posts: 3,930

    Originally posted by Tyvolus

     



    Originally posted by Vato26




    Originally posted by Tyvolus

     






    Originally posted by Vato26








    Originally posted by Tyvolus

     










    Originally posted by Vato26












    Originally posted by Tyvolus

     














    Originally posted by Vato26
















    Originally posted by DarLorkar


















    Your belief has nothing to do with the validity of the X-fire statistics when you try to apply them to the non-X-fire using population.  The facts still remain, and have yet to be refuted by you nor the other self-serving pro-X-fire people:  No one knows the percentage of the total gaming population that uses X-fire, therefore it is pure self-serving bias to use these statistics outside the X-fire using community. 

    In the statistic's trade, that is known as "Bad statistics" and would immediately get you laughed out of the room for presenting them.























    Using your own words, No one knows the total game population, except the dev's who are not talking.

    But we DO know how many x-fire users have and play a game when they log in with it.

    Using that info you CAN see a trend over time of that part of the game population in that game.

    Or are you saying that that is not true? Now if that is true, trying to refute it or ignore it, a sample of people that HAVE to own the game, and HAVE to be playing it to get the info. How can you turn around and say it is worthless?

    It is what it is. A sample of people, that use x-fire, that own the game, and that played it.

    Sounds like a pretty good piece of info to me. Would i make any overarching predictions on it like the OP? No, but i would for sure take it into account along with other info i had.





















    No.  Using the X-fire info, you can see the trends WITHIN X-fire.  It doesn't show any trends outside of X-fire as there are FAR too many variables that haven't been accounted for.  That's a fact.

    Also, what you are describing is nowhere near proper sampling technique if you are trying to use this data outside of X-fire.



















     

    I played AION, RIFT and WAR....all games had Huge releases and reflected on xfire. a few months later, they all nose dived on xfire and servers were either closing/mergining or ghost towns. xfire does indeed reflect trends in gaming. it doesnt control or dictate -- simply reflects whats happening by relaying the gaming trends of a sample of gamers. we can predict, with a fair degree of certainty what is in store for SWTOR based on how it does on xfire. If it isnt top 5 in the next 3 months, it is trending downward and not gaining subs.

    And it really is as simple as that.















    Your conjecture means noting when it comes to proof.  Provide facts.  Otherwise it's just your self-serving bias in trying to interpret X-fire data to the total gaming population.













     

    you need me to hold your hand ? FACT RIFT, WAR, and AION had HUGE RELEASES. FACT ALL 3 WERE top 10 Xfire during said HUGE releases. FACT: xfire numbers dipped, at about same time servers were closing in said games, merging and/or were ghost towns. That enough facts for ya ?









    You need me to hold YOUR hand?  Well, I'll explain the blue highlight to you since you missed it.

    First:  All you are doing is conjecturing.  Telling tales without proof to back it up.

    Second:  Proof = facts... actual numbers... screenshots to prove your case.  You have provided none of those. 

    Conjecture =/= facts.

     

    Again, conjecture means nothing when it comes to proof.







     

    oh, thats ok. I think the entire community here (myself included) is well aware you learned a new word in school today. Safe to say, I have had my fill of your new word, "conjecture" and your improper usage of it as it pertains to the facts you cant bring yourself to accept.




    So, you lower yourself to insults because you cannot provide proof.  Thanks for proving my point!


     

    what point where you trying to make again ? I'm sorry it got lost in all the conjecture. As for proof, are you kidding me ? I listed factual examples of all the proof you requested. Oh and one more thing, and this isnt conjecture, SWTOR will be bleeding subs in 3 months -- and I dont need xfire to know that.

    Enjoy !!

    Again, your conjecture means jack squat until you provide hard facts.  You haven't provided one piece of these facts.  And, when I called you out on it, you resorted to insults.

    So, you keep proving me right everytime you don't provide hard facts to back up your statements.

    Also, as to your prediction about SWTOR:  Do you have a crystal ball or are you a certifiable Psychic?  If not.... then that's just Wishful Thinking on your part.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    Guys, can we knock off the "whose is biggest" contest?  Or at least cut down the quote pyramid?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    O



    I am baaack:P

    Do not care what people use it. Not looking for anything other than that SOME people thast MUSt own and PLAY the game use it.

    That you can see over a given time period how many hours are logged.

    You can see if that stays the same, goes up, or goes down.

    If those swings are big enough, then you can and will see a trend towards that game there on x-fire.  That is true.  The trend can only be seen WITHIN X-fire using community.

    Dismissing it, because you can not prove it to a certainty is foolish:) Depending on it absolutely is foolsih. 

    All we as gamers have are places like x-fire and others that we have to watch and add together to see trends of the people that use progams like x-fire on games.  I fixed that for you to make it truthful.

    Anyone that says you can not see trends from these sites are not being honest.  Trends WITHIN the user base of those sites... yes.  Trends OUTSIDE the user base of those sites... completely false. Instead they attack it through the math or bias or whatever:P

    No it is not and never can be 100% accurate, but how about 75%? or even just 55%? Can they say with 100% accuracy that it is NOT showing trends? No.  It's called non-existant sampling procedures.  That makes it useless for trying to apply it on anything outside of it's own userbase.  Really, if you had taken any sort of statistics course you would've learned that.  You would also learn that sampling proceedures are never 100% accurate.  But, they are used to try to make the sample population as close to the total population in characteristics and composition as possible.  Thus, reducing one more extraneous variable that would taint the measured data.  There are none of those when trying to compare X-fire user trends with the non-X-fire using population.

    So trying to compare it to a 100% unbiased scientific poll of the whole gaming population of the world is just as wrong as saying that x-fire alone can predict anything 100% accurately.

    We have what we have, and we have to use that. And we have to take the fact that we will NEVER have it perfect either way. Just use what we have in the best and most honest way we can.  Using crap data to make a decision makes the decision crap.

    To those that want to dismiss it, fine:)  I think you are wrong.   And not being honest if you say that you can learn nothing from it at all  Which would make you wrong.  There is plenty to learn from the data.  But, only if applied WITHIN the X-fire using population.

    I see you left off the last part there:P

     

    SO here you go:

    But how about if your life depended on seeing trends in games, and all you have is exactly what we have? X-fire and a few other sites like it? Can you honestly say that you would ignore it completely?



    You would rather not have any info at all? even if it was unscientific and biased? You would prefer a coin flip? 

     

    Care to answer that honsetly? Anyone?

  • kakasakikakasaki Member UncommonPosts: 1,205

    Jesus, this thread is still alive??? Didn't know so many people cared about statistics (or Xfire) that much!

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • Vato26Vato26 Member Posts: 3,930

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    O



    I am baaack:P

    Do not care what people use it. Not looking for anything other than that SOME people thast MUSt own and PLAY the game use it.

    That you can see over a given time period how many hours are logged.

    You can see if that stays the same, goes up, or goes down.

    If those swings are big enough, then you can and will see a trend towards that game there on x-fire.  That is true.  The trend can only be seen WITHIN X-fire using community.

    Dismissing it, because you can not prove it to a certainty is foolish:) Depending on it absolutely is foolsih. 

    All we as gamers have are places like x-fire and others that we have to watch and add together to see trends of the people that use progams like x-fire on games.  I fixed that for you to make it truthful.

    Anyone that says you can not see trends from these sites are not being honest.  Trends WITHIN the user base of those sites... yes.  Trends OUTSIDE the user base of those sites... completely false. Instead they attack it through the math or bias or whatever:P

    No it is not and never can be 100% accurate, but how about 75%? or even just 55%? Can they say with 100% accuracy that it is NOT showing trends? No.  It's called non-existant sampling procedures.  That makes it useless for trying to apply it on anything outside of it's own userbase.  Really, if you had taken any sort of statistics course you would've learned that.  You would also learn that sampling proceedures are never 100% accurate.  But, they are used to try to make the sample population as close to the total population in characteristics and composition as possible.  Thus, reducing one more extraneous variable that would taint the measured data.  There are none of those when trying to compare X-fire user trends with the non-X-fire using population.

    So trying to compare it to a 100% unbiased scientific poll of the whole gaming population of the world is just as wrong as saying that x-fire alone can predict anything 100% accurately.

    We have what we have, and we have to use that. And we have to take the fact that we will NEVER have it perfect either way. Just use what we have in the best and most honest way we can.  Using crap data to make a decision makes the decision crap.

    To those that want to dismiss it, fine:)  I think you are wrong.   And not being honest if you say that you can learn nothing from it at all  Which would make you wrong.  There is plenty to learn from the data.  But, only if applied WITHIN the X-fire using population.

    I see you left off the last part there:P

     

    SO here you go:

    But how about if your life depended on seeing trends in games, and all you have is exactly what we have? X-fire and a few other sites like it? Can you honestly say that you would ignore it completely?



    You would rather not have any info at all? even if it was unscientific and biased? You would prefer a coin flip? 

     

    Care to answer that honsetly? Anyone?

    Because the last part is nothing but extreme sensationalism that serves no actual purpose, adds nothing to the discussion, and refutes nothing.  You are engaging in obfuscation tactics rather than arguing with facts.

    I would like to note that you didn't even attempt to refute any of my statements.

  • KaocanKaocan Member UncommonPosts: 1,270

    I dont get the problem here. Hey if I was a polling agency, I'm sure I could take a poll of 1000 likely voters (all in an inter-city, largely democratic location) and see how well Obama is doing as President of the United States. I'm sure the results would be 100% accurate and reflect exactly what everyone thinks accross the country. I'm posative the trend among these (mostly registered Democrats) will accurately reflect the trends of all people found in the country at any given time. 

    So if that is true, and we use it ALL the time (just check your local media outlet for proof), then why shouldn't we use X-Fire to track and prove trends on selective MMORPG games? Its about as un-biased.

    (DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)

  • PelaajaPelaaja Member Posts: 697

    Seeing the graph it has climbed past last 2 days, but is still missing 26th numbers in XFire.

    The trend is upwards though, so it might end up well. Don't know if the time this thread was created was the final peak, but it's the highest this far.

    image

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    I see you left off the last part there:P

     

    SO here you go:

    But how about if your life depended on seeing trends in games, and all you have is exactly what we have? X-fire and a few other sites like it? Can you honestly say that you would ignore it completely?



    You would rather not have any info at all? even if it was unscientific and biased? You would prefer a coin flip? 

     

    Care to answer that honsetly? Anyone?

    Because the last part is nothing but extreme sensationalism that serves no actual purpose, adds nothing to the discussion, and refutes nothing.  You are engaging in obfuscation tactics rather than arguing with facts.

    I would like to note that you didn't even attempt to refute any of my statements.



    Umm becaue i do not like to make huge quote posts. I do not like to re-write others words nor post inside their posts:)but if you insist i will soon as you honestly answer that last question:P

    It is just a small question after all:) It even represents the facts we have. It IS all the info we have. And yes it serves a perfect purpose:)

    We will see if this is all just an intellectual  exercise or if people will be honest.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Umm becaue i do not like to make huge quote posts. I do not like to re-write others words nor post inside their posts:)but if you insist i will soon as you honestly answer that last question:P

    It is just a small question after all:) It even represents the facts we have. It IS all the info we have. And yes it serves a perfect purpose:)

    We will see if this is all just an intellectual  exercise or if people will be honest.

    Perfect form for a Begging the Question formal fallacy composition, yes?

    Have YOU stopped beating your wife yet?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Umm becaue i do not like to make huge quote posts. I do not like to re-write others words nor post inside their posts:)but if you insist i will soon as you honestly answer that last question:P

    It is just a small question after all:) It even represents the facts we have. It IS all the info we have. And yes it serves a perfect purpose:)

    We will see if this is all just an intellectual  exercise or if people will be honest.

    Perfect form for a Begging the Question formal fallacy composition, yes?

    Have YOU stopped beating your wife yet?

    Yes :) next?

     

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Yes :) next?

    Presupposing guilt, any answer you receive will only confirm it to you.

    So why are you wasting our time with it?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ZebladeZeblade Member UncommonPosts: 931

    Wow I dont know anyone that uses Xfire anymore so I sure would never go by that.

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by DarLorkar

    Yes :) next?

    Presupposing guilt, any answer you receive will only confirm it to you.

    So why are you wasting our time with it?

    Simply to get an honest response to a question. And yes i know the answer as well as you and the others here:)

    I am simply wiling to admit it. 

     

This discussion has been closed.