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30 day of game time included? Not really.

So far I'd give Bioware the title of the scammer of the year. First the artifical queues at servers to make people spread evenly, then the "servers overloaded" excuse to stop people posting on their forums - but the "pay us to get what you already paid for" is really the best.

I don't get it people.  Some say it's common practice. No it is not. I haven't seen it in WOW, AoC, or LOTRO. You just bought the game, stamped in your code, you got your game time and no credit card number, paypal or prepaid cards were needed.

They say they would not bill you until the 30 days are over.

Well lets just ignore the fact that people posted they were billed immediatelly, for the moment, but if this is true why the heck do they need the card number in advance? They do not need it and they will not get it, period. I liked the game even if it's very wowlike, I liked it despite the bugs everywhere but no I'm not going to let them manipulate me like that. If they get used to the fact that people will sheep away and do what they want, well good for them and damn bad for us.

I'm really really sorry that I bought the game and if I could get my money back I'd go for it immediatelly. Very disapointed.

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Comments

  • digicafdigicaf Member Posts: 14

    Originally posted by Fext

    So far I'd give Bioware the title of the scammer of the year. First the artifical queues at servers to make people spread evenly, then the "servers overloaded" excuse to stop people posting on their forums - but the "pay us to get what you already paid for" is really the best.

    I don't get it people.  Some say it's common practice. No it is not. I haven't seen it in WOW, AoC, or LOTRO. You just bought the game, stamped in your code, you got your game time and no credit card number, paypal or prepaid cards were needed.

    They say they would not bill you until the 30 days are over.

    Well lets just ignore the fact that people posted they were billed immediatelly, for the moment, but if this is true why the heck do they need the card number in advance? They do not need it and they will not get it, period. I liked the game even if it's very wowlike, I liked it despite the bugs everywhere but no I'm not going to let them manipulate me like that. If they get used to the fact that people will sheep away and do what they want, well good for them and damn bad for us.

    I'm really really sorry that I bought the game and if I could get my money back I'd go for it immediatelly. Very disapointed.

    This is standard procedure for any pay to play mmo. Go get your money back (because you can). [mod edit]

     

  • UronksurUronksur Member UncommonPosts: 310

    Originally posted by Fext

    So far I'd give Bioware the title of the scammer of the year. First the artifical queues at servers to make people spread evenly, then the "servers overloaded" excuse to stop people posting on their forums - but the "pay us to get what you already paid for" is really the best.

    I don't get it people.  Some say it's common practice. No it is not. I haven't seen it in WOW, AoC, or LOTRO. You just bought the game, stamped in your code, you got your game time and no credit card number, paypal or prepaid cards were needed.

    They say they would not bill you until the 30 days are over.

    Well lets just ignore the fact that people posted they were billed immediatelly, for the moment, but if this is true why the heck do they need the card number in advance? They do not need it and they will not get it, period. I liked the game even if it's very wowlike, I liked it despite the bugs everywhere but no I'm not going to let them manipulate me like that. If they get used to the fact that people will sheep away and do what they want, well good for them and damn bad for us.

    I'm really really sorry that I bought the game and if I could get my money back I'd go for it immediatelly. Very disapointed.



    Have you ever played an MMORPG before this? They ALL make you sign up for a subscription plan once you buy the full game. It isn't seen in WoW or LotRO because they are F2P, genius. SWTOR isn't. I can't address AoC because I've never tried it. We are all billed immediately with a verification charge, which all adults here should know is just a test to make sure you aren't feeding them crap accounts. The charge is routinely canceled after a few days. So don't expect much sympathy just because you don't know regular business practices or how credit cards work.

  • kishekishe Member UncommonPosts: 2,012

    Originally posted by Fext

    So far I'd give Bioware the title of the scammer of the year. First the artifical queues at servers to make people spread evenly, then the "servers overloaded" excuse to stop people posting on their forums - but the "pay us to get what you already paid for" is really the best.

    I don't get it people.  Some say it's common practice. No it is not. I haven't seen it in WOW, AoC, or LOTRO. You just bought the game, stamped in your code, you got your game time and no credit card number, paypal or prepaid cards were needed.

    They say they would not bill you until the 30 days are over.

    Well lets just ignore the fact that people posted they were billed immediatelly, for the moment, but if this is true why the heck do they need the card number in advance? They do not need it and they will not get it, period. I liked the game even if it's very wowlike, I liked it despite the bugs everywhere but no I'm not going to let them manipulate me like that. If they get used to the fact that people will sheep away and do what they want, well good for them and damn bad for us.

    I'm really really sorry that I bought the game and if I could get my money back I'd go for it immediatelly. Very disapointed.

    So you bought game thats plastered with words "REQUIRES ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTION TO PLAY" and you're pissed that you assumed it WOULDNT require active subscrption to play?

     

    [Mod Edit]

  • ClassicstarClassicstar Member UncommonPosts: 2,697


    Originally posted by Uronksur


    Originally posted by Fext
    So far I'd give Bioware the title of the scammer of the year. First the artifical queues at servers to make people spread evenly, then the "servers overloaded" excuse to stop people posting on their forums - but the "pay us to get what you already paid for" is really the best.
    I don't get it people.  Some say it's common practice. No it is not. I haven't seen it in WOW, AoC, or LOTRO. You just bought the game, stamped in your code, you got your game time and no credit card number, paypal or prepaid cards were needed.
    They say they would not bill you until the 30 days are over.
    Well lets just ignore the fact that people posted they were billed immediatelly, for the moment, but if this is true why the heck do they need the card number in advance? They do not need it and they will not get it, period. I liked the game even if it's very wowlike, I liked it despite the bugs everywhere but no I'm not going to let them manipulate me like that. If they get used to the fact that people will sheep away and do what they want, well good for them and damn bad for us.
    I'm really really sorry that I bought the game and if I could get my money back I'd go for it immediatelly. Very disapointed.

    Have you ever played an MMORPG before this? They ALL make you sign up for a subscription plan once you buy the full game. It isn't seen in WoW or LotRO because they are F2P, genius. SWTOR isn't. I can't address AoC because I've never tried it. We are all billed immediately with a verification charge, which all adults here should know is just a test to make sure you aren't feeding them crap accounts. The charge is routinely canceled after a few days. So don't expect much sympathy just because you don't know regular business practices or how credit cards work.


    WoW is not free to play plus when it launched back in 2004-5 there was no free trial yet eather.

    But with WoW and many others mmo's you buy the game put in your info and payment method there was no need for creditcard info just info gamecard for example and you could play after month they let you deside if you wanne play further or not.

    So billed and charge is not true at all and insulting people is not nice btw eather.

    If they requier active subscription by asking for creditcard number or bank number and you have to agree i would demand my money back its scam by these money grabbing bastards thats obvious. But maybe we here in europe are not easely scammed we dont have active subscription we have to agree on.

    Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!

    MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
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  • kishekishe Member UncommonPosts: 2,012

     

    1) Write in your credit card info

    2) Activate your account

    3)Cancel your account

    4) Play your free 30 days!

     

    ...is that really SO hard?

  • UronksurUronksur Member UncommonPosts: 310

    Originally posted by forest-nl

     




    Originally posted by Uronksur





    Originally posted by Fext

    So far I'd give Bioware the title of the scammer of the year. First the artifical queues at servers to make people spread evenly, then the "servers overloaded" excuse to stop people posting on their forums - but the "pay us to get what you already paid for" is really the best.

    I don't get it people.  Some say it's common practice. No it is not. I haven't seen it in WOW, AoC, or LOTRO. You just bought the game, stamped in your code, you got your game time and no credit card number, paypal or prepaid cards were needed.

    They say they would not bill you until the 30 days are over.

    Well lets just ignore the fact that people posted they were billed immediatelly, for the moment, but if this is true why the heck do they need the card number in advance? They do not need it and they will not get it, period. I liked the game even if it's very wowlike, I liked it despite the bugs everywhere but no I'm not going to let them manipulate me like that. If they get used to the fact that people will sheep away and do what they want, well good for them and damn bad for us.

    I'm really really sorry that I bought the game and if I could get my money back I'd go for it immediatelly. Very disapointed.




     

    Have you ever played an MMORPG before this? They ALL make you sign up for a subscription plan once you buy the full game. It isn't seen in WoW or LotRO because they are F2P, genius. SWTOR isn't. I can't address AoC because I've never tried it. We are all billed immediately with a verification charge, which all adults here should know is just a test to make sure you aren't feeding them crap accounts. The charge is routinely canceled after a few days. So don't expect much sympathy just because you don't know regular business practices or how credit cards work.



     

    WoW is not free to play plus when it launched back in 2004-5 there was no free trial yet eather.

    But with WoW and many others mmo's you buy the game put in your info and payment method there was no need for creditcard info just info gamecard for example and you could play after month they let you deside if you wanne play further or not.

    So billed and charge is not true at all and insulting people is not nice btw eather.

     



    *stares patiently*

    https://us.battle.net/account/creation/wow/signup/;jsessionid=D55813DA47E78E60C7B09C7C47E40E53.blade34_01_bnet-mgmt

    1. Yes, WoW is free to play. God alone knows how you missed it being free until level 20 with all the internet ads they have trumpeting that fact.

    2. Anything that says "active subscription required to play" is going to require you to sign up for a subscription plan before you get access to the 30 included days. This was the case when I bought WoW a long time ago, when I bought EVE, when I bought FFXI, when I bought WAR...

    3. And as for "put in your info"... That is exactly what they are doing. The only charge is a $1 verification charge that doesn't stay on your account. Anyone who has ever done any online purchases should be familiar with this.

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Member Posts: 877

    Why are people refering to WoW as F2P?

    Anyways, quite defending BW/EA.  The game includes a free 30 day service which SHOULD NOT require an active sub, that 30 day is an equivilent to a game time card which WoW included in their retail boxes 9not sure if they still do it anymore).   BW/EA making people activate a sub plan is utter horse shit.  *Conspiracy cap on*, this is a simple ploy to dupe people into signing up for a sub hoping that people will forget to canx it before the bill date.

    This is piss poor buisness practices plain and simple, but hey... did we really expect any less from EA though?

  • AshlindeAshlinde Member Posts: 120

    standard for all pay to play MMOs. when you put in your product code, they make you set up a sub plan with a paid time card or a CC. dont even try to lie and say they dont, i have played dozens of MMOs in the last 12 or so years that have.

  • UronksurUronksur Member UncommonPosts: 310

    Originally posted by Ambros123

    Why are people refering to WoW as F2P?

    Because it is up to level 20, perhaps?

  • white_wolf22white_wolf22 Member Posts: 17

    Every MMO that isn't free to play does this, if you don't like it then don't play MMOs.  It's the nature of the industry.

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Member Posts: 877

    Originally posted by Uronksur

    Originally posted by forest-nl

     




    Originally posted by Uronksur






    Originally posted by Fext

    So far I'd give Bioware the title of the scammer of the year. First the artifical queues at servers to make people spread evenly, then the "servers overloaded" excuse to stop people posting on their forums - but the "pay us to get what you already paid for" is really the best.

    I don't get it people.  Some say it's common practice. No it is not. I haven't seen it in WOW, AoC, or LOTRO. You just bought the game, stamped in your code, you got your game time and no credit card number, paypal or prepaid cards were needed.

    They say they would not bill you until the 30 days are over.

    Well lets just ignore the fact that people posted they were billed immediatelly, for the moment, but if this is true why the heck do they need the card number in advance? They do not need it and they will not get it, period. I liked the game even if it's very wowlike, I liked it despite the bugs everywhere but no I'm not going to let them manipulate me like that. If they get used to the fact that people will sheep away and do what they want, well good for them and damn bad for us.

    I'm really really sorry that I bought the game and if I could get my money back I'd go for it immediatelly. Very disapointed.





     

    Have you ever played an MMORPG before this? They ALL make you sign up for a subscription plan once you buy the full game. It isn't seen in WoW or LotRO because they are F2P, genius. SWTOR isn't. I can't address AoC because I've never tried it. We are all billed immediately with a verification charge, which all adults here should know is just a test to make sure you aren't feeding them crap accounts. The charge is routinely canceled after a few days. So don't expect much sympathy just because you don't know regular business practices or how credit cards work.



     

    WoW is not free to play plus when it launched back in 2004-5 there was no free trial yet eather.

    But with WoW and many others mmo's you buy the game put in your info and payment method there was no need for creditcard info just info gamecard for example and you could play after month they let you deside if you wanne play further or not.

    So billed and charge is not true at all and insulting people is not nice btw eather.

     



    *stares patiently*

    https://us.battle.net/account/creation/wow/signup/;jsessionid=D55813DA47E78E60C7B09C7C47E40E53.blade34_01_bnet-mgmt

    1. Yes, WoW is free to play. God alone knows how you missed it being free until level 20 with all the internet ads they have trumpeting that fact.

    2. Anything that says "active subscription required to play" is going to require you to sign up for a subscription plan before you get access to the 30 included days. This was the case when I bought WoW a long time ago, when I bought EVE, when I bought FFXI, when I bought WAR...

    3. And as for "put in your info"... That is exactly what they are doing. The only charge is a $1 verification charge that doesn't stay on your account. Anyone who has ever done any online purchases should be familiar with this.

    *facepalm* That is NOT free to play.  You can hit lvl 20 in a day or two (which you can also do in SWTOR), all that is is a trial.  SWTOR will have that too once the initial sales and the holidays are over as an advertisement tactic.

  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432

    Originally posted by Uronksur

    Originally posted by Ambros123

    Why are people refering to WoW as F2P?

    Because it is up to level 20, perhaps?

    Which = free trial, not F2P.

    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    I can see it coming soon.

     

    Game plus sub and payment info needed to play $60.00 regular code

    Game no sub or payment info needed or required $60.00 special code you need to get each month

    We will be glad to send you a special code to continue your game each month $14.99 plus a small handling fee of $9.99.

     

    Careful what you wail about, they will be glad to sell it to you.

  • GrubbsGradyGrubbsGrady Member UncommonPosts: 371

    Yeah I really don't understand why this is getting threads and headlines on gaming sites. Nearly every MMO that I have played functions this way. You put in your CC info, they tell you it will not be charged until the 30 days is up and you can cancel at any time, and then you get to play the 30 days.

    All these people complaining about this are seriously bad at trolling. I think TOR is a waste of time, but even this complaint is just plain stupid. Enter your info and then cancel it right away...or don't play. Simple as that.

  • UronksurUronksur Member UncommonPosts: 310

    Originally posted by Quesa

    Originally posted by Uronksur


    Originally posted by Ambros123

    Why are people refering to WoW as F2P?

    Because it is up to level 20, perhaps?

    Which = free trial, not F2P.

    I don't see how getting the base client and being allowed to play for as long as you want counts as a "free trial", but sure, whatever you want man. By the same logic the free level of F2P games are also "free trials".

  • ClassicstarClassicstar Member UncommonPosts: 2,697


    Originally posted by Uronksur


    Originally posted by forest-nl
     



    Originally posted by Uronksur




    Originally posted by Fext
    So far I'd give Bioware the title of the scammer of the year. First the artifical queues at servers to make people spread evenly, then the "servers overloaded" excuse to stop people posting on their forums - but the "pay us to get what you already paid for" is really the best.
    I don't get it people.  Some say it's common practice. No it is not. I haven't seen it in WOW, AoC, or LOTRO. You just bought the game, stamped in your code, you got your game time and no credit card number, paypal or prepaid cards were needed.
    They say they would not bill you until the 30 days are over.
    Well lets just ignore the fact that people posted they were billed immediatelly, for the moment, but if this is true why the heck do they need the card number in advance? They do not need it and they will not get it, period. I liked the game even if it's very wowlike, I liked it despite the bugs everywhere but no I'm not going to let them manipulate me like that. If they get used to the fact that people will sheep away and do what they want, well good for them and damn bad for us.
    I'm really really sorry that I bought the game and if I could get my money back I'd go for it immediatelly. Very disapointed.


     
    Have you ever played an MMORPG before this? They ALL make you sign up for a subscription plan once you buy the full game. It isn't seen in WoW or LotRO because they are F2P, genius. SWTOR isn't. I can't address AoC because I've never tried it. We are all billed immediately with a verification charge, which all adults here should know is just a test to make sure you aren't feeding them crap accounts. The charge is routinely canceled after a few days. So don't expect much sympathy just because you don't know regular business practices or how credit cards work.


     
    WoW is not free to play plus when it launched back in 2004-5 there was no free trial yet eather.
    But with WoW and many others mmo's you buy the game put in your info and payment method there was no need for creditcard info just info gamecard for example and you could play after month they let you deside if you wanne play further or not.
    So billed and charge is not true at all and insulting people is not nice btw eather.
     

    *stares patiently*
    https://us.battle.net/account/creation/wow/signup/;jsessionid=D55813DA47E78E60C7B09C7C47E40E53.blade34_01_bnet-mgmt
    1. Yes, WoW is free to play. God alone knows how you missed it being free until level 20 with all the internet ads they have trumpeting that fact.
    2. Anything that says "active subscription required to play" is going to require you to sign up for a subscription plan before you get access to the 30 included days. This was the case when I bought WoW a long time ago, when I bought EVE, when I bought FFXI, when I bought WAR...
    3. And as for "put in your info"... That is exactly what they are doing. The only charge is a $1 verification charge that doesn't stay on your account. Anyone who has ever done any online purchases should be familiar with this.


    I did not know WoW was free i dont realy follow that kind of games sorry for misunstanding hehe.

    But i think the difference is that here in europe different rules apply becouse majority here in europe don't have or use creditcards and i know many use gamecards-paypal or bank number here as i see them always in gameshops here those gamecards. With WoW and Darkfall we did not have this kind of rules we jsut had one month and after month finished we needed to active or it auto stopped.

    Btw if i play 60 bucks i dont need anything to fill in just enter code of the game and play fuke them bastards there already filthy rich.

    Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!

    MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
    CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
    GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
    MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 10 64bit

  • AzariaAzaria Member Posts: 318

    Originally posted by Uronksur



    Have you ever played an MMORPG before this? They ALL make you sign up for a subscription plan once you buy the full game. It isn't seen in WoW or LotRO because they are F2P, genius. SWTOR isn't. I can't address AoC because I've never tried it. We are all billed immediately with a verification charge, which all adults here should know is just a test to make sure you aren't feeding them crap accounts. The charge is routinely canceled after a few days. So don't expect much sympathy just because you don't know regular business practices or how credit cards work.

    WTF are you talking about WOW is not FTP, not yet anyway, and not every mmorpg demands you get on a payment plan, and your accusing the poster of not knowing what hes talking about?  I've been mmorpging since UO came out and thats not standard procedure.

    [Mod Edit]

  • UronksurUronksur Member UncommonPosts: 310

    Originally posted by forest-nl

     




    Originally posted by Uronksur





    Originally posted by forest-nl

     








    Originally posted by Uronksur










    Originally posted by Fext

    So far I'd give Bioware the title of the scammer of the year. First the artifical queues at servers to make people spread evenly, then the "servers overloaded" excuse to stop people posting on their forums - but the "pay us to get what you already paid for" is really the best.

    I don't get it people.  Some say it's common practice. No it is not. I haven't seen it in WOW, AoC, or LOTRO. You just bought the game, stamped in your code, you got your game time and no credit card number, paypal or prepaid cards were needed.

    They say they would not bill you until the 30 days are over.

    Well lets just ignore the fact that people posted they were billed immediatelly, for the moment, but if this is true why the heck do they need the card number in advance? They do not need it and they will not get it, period. I liked the game even if it's very wowlike, I liked it despite the bugs everywhere but no I'm not going to let them manipulate me like that. If they get used to the fact that people will sheep away and do what they want, well good for them and damn bad for us.

    I'm really really sorry that I bought the game and if I could get my money back I'd go for it immediatelly. Very disapointed.








     

    Have you ever played an MMORPG before this? They ALL make you sign up for a subscription plan once you buy the full game. It isn't seen in WoW or LotRO because they are F2P, genius. SWTOR isn't. I can't address AoC because I've never tried it. We are all billed immediately with a verification charge, which all adults here should know is just a test to make sure you aren't feeding them crap accounts. The charge is routinely canceled after a few days. So don't expect much sympathy just because you don't know regular business practices or how credit cards work.








     

    WoW is not free to play plus when it launched back in 2004-5 there was no free trial yet eather.

    But with WoW and many others mmo's you buy the game put in your info and payment method there was no need for creditcard info just info gamecard for example and you could play after month they let you deside if you wanne play further or not.

    So billed and charge is not true at all and insulting people is not nice btw eather.

     




     

    *stares patiently*

    https://us.battle.net/account/creation/wow/signup/;jsessionid=D55813DA47E78E60C7B09C7C47E40E53.blade34_01_bnet-mgmt

    1. Yes, WoW is free to play. God alone knows how you missed it being free until level 20 with all the internet ads they have trumpeting that fact.

    2. Anything that says "active subscription required to play" is going to require you to sign up for a subscription plan before you get access to the 30 included days. This was the case when I bought WoW a long time ago, when I bought EVE, when I bought FFXI, when I bought WAR...

    3. And as for "put in your info"... That is exactly what they are doing. The only charge is a $1 verification charge that doesn't stay on your account. Anyone who has ever done any online purchases should be familiar with this.



     

    I did not know WoW was free i dont realy follow that kind of games sorry for misunstanding hehe.

    But i think the difference is that here in europe different rules apply becouse majority here in europe don't have or use creditcards and i know many use gamecards-paypal or bank number here as i see them always in gameshops here those gamecards. With WoW and Darkfall we did not have this kind of rules we jsut had one month and after month finished we needed to active or it auto stopped.



    Sure thing, I don't really have any idea how things are done in Europe, but in the US and in my experience, all P2P games require you to setup a subscription with a payment option so it'll autorenew at the end of your included-with-the-game month.

  • DeolusDeolus Member UncommonPosts: 392

    Originally posted by forest-nl

    Your all serious mistaken that you think this planet is only occupied by americans with there money grabbing greedy systems, well its not and luckly we as eurpeans are not so easely scammed by sign something with CC, we euro's dont even have to fill CC lol and most of game AUTO stop after month hehe.

     

    Yeah, was beginning to doubt myself after seeing all these replies.

    Most games I have played have just forced you to create a subscription after your free time was up.

     

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Member UncommonPosts: 1,703

    Originally posted by AnElf

    Originally posted by forest-nl



    Your all serious mistaken that you think this planet is only occupied by americans with there money grabbing greedy systems, well its not and luckly we as eurpeans are not so easely scammed by sign something with CC, we euro's dont even have to fill CC lol and most of game AUTO stop after month hehe.

     

    Yeah, was beginning to doubt myself after seeing all these replies.

    Most games I have played have just forced you to create a subscription after your free time was up.

     

    Same here

  • tachgbtachgb Member UncommonPosts: 791

    You're buying the software to subcribe to a service...Such as buying a Sky HD box to subscribe to their service. It's a really simple concept.

  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904


    Originally posted by tachgb
    You're buying the software to subcribe to a service...Such as buying a Sky HD box to subscribe to their service. It's a really simple concept.

    Yep, There gona get your money in the end anyway... People spend $60~ on the game, need to pay the sub fee anyway to keep playing, Or they dont.. rendering the "product" a paper weight..$60 down the drain.

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  • DLangleyDLangley Member Posts: 1,407

    Hey guys, cut out the baiting please. Thanks. There is no need to get angry at another user.

  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364

    Originally posted by kishe

     

    1) Write in your credit card info

    2) Activate your account

    3)Cancel your account

    4) Play your free 30 days!

     

    ...is that really SO hard?

    It is if you don't have your own CC and your parents won't give you theirs I guess? :D 

    The most people who whine about this are mostly in this situation - again just a guess :D

     

    Jokes aside... The problem is people aren't familliar with this system since not everyone played WOW (or any other mmorpg) when it was asking for your CC info to get your 30 days free (vanilla wow) and it wasn't of any issue... It's just like you said, you enter CC info, you get your 30 days free and you then erase the billing plan and you still play without any subscription on your account for this 30 days... 

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    Lol, at the bottom of my page is an advert "play EVE now: no credit card required"
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