One of the greatest benefits of the voiceover-feature is, that it will annoy the HELL out of "GOGOGO"-Kiddies like this one, so they will leave very quickly. Meanwhile i will enjoy taking my sweet time in Dungeons choosing my dialogue-option as soon as one of these goons spam "GET ON WITH IT ALREADY" in the chatwindow. Oh sweet revenge.
I have to get back on this. It just deserves thumbs up.
Can't really say how damn annoying it was to run a flashpoint with a PUG, bet all of them these "GOGOGO"-kiddies.
It was like:
"HURRY UP!!" SMASH 1,1,2,SPCBAR,SPCBAR. "WTF IS TAKING SO LONG?!"
I'm trying to listen the NPC talking and hoping that they can't kick me out of a group and I have to start it all over again with another PUG. Then it's rush to fight, rush to fight, some *sshole loots all the corpses and salvages all the droids. No, there's really not time to explore the areas, since you are left alone.
Aww come on. Have you actually looked at the world content in RIFT. Its pretty insane when you look at how many different types of zone invasions, Rift types there are from zone to zone.
The best part about Rift was the rifts and invasions honestly. I LOVED all of that.
But the problem was that even though it's the most dynamic part of rift, it really isn't "dynamic".
The rifts spawn in the same place triggered by the same things. They all disappear within one hour whether you kill them or not. All the invasions aren't 'dynamic' or different. They are the same mobs with different colors and names, using about four different model types or so. There really isn't any "dynamic difference" between what an Air rift invasion mob does and a Death rift invasion mob does.
Any little hamlets and burgs taken over during that time simply grow the NPCs back once the monsters despawn. You could literally park your toon on a hill, watch an invasion come in, kill all the people then walk around until the timer went 00.00 again.
It really wasn't very dynamic and it was the only part of the game that could have been considered as such.
Having a hundred different rift spawn points in a zone that spawn in any of those locations with different types depending on zone activity is dynamic while pulling from 20+ types of rifts per zone is Dynamic.
Randomly spawning a zone invasion pulled from over a dozen different ones at any time is dynamic.
Sure it may not be completely random content when each and every one is so different that you wont see the same one in a week of playing but its still dynamic and keep in mind the mechanic is kind of new. im sure other games will run with it.
Well I don't have similar observations to OP. Mind you I am old crpg player that loves games like Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Arcanum, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Darkfall, Obvilion, etc
I am leech for lore, stories, and non-combat things.
Still Swtor did not impress me. Why?
Dialogs in Swtor are simplistic and are using same repetetive structure - always 3 cookie cutter answers.
Seriously where are deep, complex conversations? Where are nuiances in conversations that could change how talk will go?
Swtor is generic :
a) I am good
b) I am neutral
c) I am bad
Dialog options.
Just unimpressive...
It is like watching movie that you can direct a bit and it is not like beign inside story yourself and playing a game.
Well at least for me.
Errmm, I'll admit this is sometimes the case, but many times while running missions both on my Agent and Inquisitor I was presented with multiple darkside or lightside options in a single dialog. And the options often have secondary effects like pick dark side option A .. more DS points but your companion hates it, pick DS option B less points but your companion gets happy. And I didn't really find the options all that generic. Also I noticed something very interesting.. and maybe this was just my brain getting into my character a bit much but by the time I hit DS 3 on my inquisitor (soooo fun being evil) .. it literally sounded like she was getting more viscious in how she spoke and her options just became like downright sinister. I'm actually curious if your chat options change with your alignment path.. cause it sure seemed that way.
you have the part about it being a reskin right but the best part of invasions is it gets entire zones working together.
At LAUNCH.
Then everyone got bored with this mechanic two months later because despite what you were told about it being "dynamic", nothing changed at all. People either killed the mobs or they didn't but in one hour, everything went back to "normal".
Honestly when you think about it, you'd be pretty insulted that after weeks of closing rifts/invasions due to "imminent doom" if you didn't act, that you could not log in for one week, come back and see the world didn't miss you at all.
If fact, you could just log for lunch and come back and realize that. The world was never in peril and those changes weren't really "changes". That breaks any type of immersion at all and people stopped caring about the NPCs who got killed because in one hour... they'd be back selling me goods again like nothing happened.
In SWTOR, you SEE the story change and you are actually in it. That is what immersion is all about.
actually no this was 7 months after launch.. at 50 I never had issue getting a full raid together to do any zone event in the final 3 areas stillmoor, shimmersand, and IPP.. Also since a lot of the world invasion quests were completed by doing the zone invasion many people kept on them month after month.. Only reason I really left was cause PVP had no meaningful endgame and FOTM every single patch was getting old.
you have the part about it being a reskin right but the best part of invasions is it gets entire zones working together.
At LAUNCH.
Then everyone got bored with this mechanic two months later because despite what you were told about it being "dynamic", nothing changed at all. People either killed the mobs or they didn't but in one hour, everything went back to "normal".
Honestly when you think about it, you'd be pretty insulted that after weeks of closing rifts/invasions due to "imminent doom" if you didn't act, that you could not log in for one week, come back and see the world didn't miss you at all.
If fact, you could just log for lunch and come back and realize that. The world was never in peril and those changes weren't really "changes". That breaks any type of immersion at all and people stopped caring about the NPCs who got killed because in one hour... they'd be back selling me goods again like nothing happened.
In SWTOR, you SEE the story change and you are actually in it. That is what immersion is all about.
Your expectations of what dynamic content should offer far exceeds what can be done currently in the mmorpg genre.
Even GW2 will offer only a set amount of content randomly spawned at set points, ultimately just spawning an encounter for a zone of players that ultimately changes nothing.
The "Story Change" that you like in SWTOR is nothing but a branching arc, something we've seen in the RPG sp genre for twenty years and ultimately isnt very interesting because they all lead to the same two or three conclusions that offer limited replay value.
I went up to a quest NPC and they just stood there with their mouth and face unmoving, they said a generic greeting and that was it.
I never expected the talking quest NPC thing to affect my experience that much but after playing SWTOR and Skyrim you really see how much weight the voiceover interaction gives the proceedings.
[Mod Edit]
They've set a new mark for presentation and I don't think there's any going back.
Yeah I totally get where you are comming from. During the loong down time til Early Access I fired up Eve again and I was like "WTF am I doing here watching paint dry" the smallest thing takes insane amount of time and effort and is simply not something I consider worth my time. The Cruicible patch fixed alot of things, but too little too late I can't be arsed with games that feel like a job anymore. I want fun and I want immersion or nothing at all.
Well I don't have similar observations to OP. Mind you I am old crpg player that loves games like Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Arcanum, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Darkfall, Obvilion, etc
I am leech for lore, stories, and non-combat things.
Still Swtor did not impress me. Why?
Dialogs in Swtor are simplistic and are using same repetetive structure - always 3 cookie cutter answers.
Seriously where are deep, complex conversations? Where are nuiances in conversations that could change how talk will go?
Swtor is generic :
a) I am good
b) I am neutral
c) I am bad
Dialog options.
Just unimpressive...
It is like watching movie that you can direct a bit and it is not like beign inside story yourself and playing a game.
Well at least for me.
Errmm, I'll admit this is sometimes the case, but many times while running missions both on my Agent and Inquisitor I was presented with multiple darkside or lightside options in a single dialog. And the options often have secondary effects like pick dark side option A .. more DS points but your companion hates it, pick DS option B less points but your companion gets happy. And I didn't really find the options all that generic. Also I noticed something very interesting.. and maybe this was just my brain getting into my character a bit much but by the time I hit DS 3 on my inquisitor (soooo fun being evil) .. it literally sounded like she was getting more viscious in how she spoke and her options just became like downright sinister. I'm actually curious if your chat options change with your alignment path.. cause it sure seemed that way.
That's the thing. Always it is obvious what options you have. It is always crystal clear and obvious.
I just miss conversation being more realistic and in-depth like they are in some titles I mentioned.
Bioware is just using same simplified system lately in all their games. ME2, DA2 and Swtor all share same dialogue system (with tiny diffrences) and it feel like dialogue in some straight to face action movie instead being dialogues like in some quality drama or good book.
The "Story Change" that you like in SWTOR is nothing but a branching arc, something we've seen in the RPG sp genre for twenty years and ultimately isnt very interesting because they all lead to the same two or three conclusions that offer limited replay value.
The point is, you haven't seen it in an MMO to this extent. And one thing a Rift player should NEVER do is bring up the "replay value" argument, because few games have less of that than Rift.
My main issue with Rift, aside from an extemely dull world and game, is that Trion basically sabotaged their own commitment to server community with their post-patch implementations. When the game was launched, the big draw was the rifts and invasions. Dynamic events that required the help of the community to complete. I personally found the rifts and invasions to be boring as hell after about 20 levels because like I said, each rift and invasion was nothing more than a reskin of another, and they turned into nothing more than mobile "Kill X of Y mob" quest hubs. But that aside, the idea was a good one at first. Spawn randomish events that involve the whole community of the server.
And then they introduced the cross-shard warfront tool.
And then they introduced the cross-shard LFG tool.
And now, the ultimate insult, they've introduced the Instant Adventure tool, which has to go down as the most idiotic idea in the history of mmorpgs. Queued up quests.
So now suddenly, they've turned a once-promising game that was going to depend on large-scale community involvement into a fucking lobby game. You can literally level up to cap in Rift by spending your time in queues and playing against/with people you may never interact with again. Those three features are community killers, and they go against everything Trion "claimed" that their game stood for.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
The "Story Change" that you like in SWTOR is nothing but a branching arc, something we've seen in the RPG sp genre for twenty years and ultimately isnt very interesting because they all lead to the same two or three conclusions that offer limited replay value.
The point is, you haven't seen it in an MMO to this extent. And one thing a Rift player should NEVER do is bring up the "replay value" argument, because few games have less of that than Rift.
My main issue with Rift, aside from an extemely dull world and game, is that Trion basically sabotaged their own commitment to server community with their post-patch implementations. When the game was launched, the big draw was the rifts and invasions. Dynamic events that required the help of the community to complete. I personally found the rifts and invasions to be boring as hell after about 20 levels because like I said, each rift and invasion was nothing more than a reskin of another, and they turned into nothing more than mobile "Kill X of Y mob" quest hubs. But that aside, the idea was a good one at first. Spawn randomish events that involve the whole community of the server.
And then they introduced the cross-shard warfront tool.
And then they introduced the cross-shard LFG tool.
And now, the ultimate insult, they've introduced the Instant Adventure tool, which has to go down as the most idiotic idea in the history of mmorpgs. Queued up quests.
So now suddenly, they've turned a once-promising game that was going to depend on large-scale community involvement into a fucking lobby game. You can literally level up to cap in Rift by spending your time in queues and playing against/with people you may never interact with again. Those three features are community killers, and they go against everything Trion "claimed" that their game stood for.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
Your mistaking this conversation for a Rift vs TOR discussion when in actuallity its a Dynamic content Vs Spoken dialog mechanic debate.
The OP stated he tired of RIFt on his return due to its lack of voiced dialog and I in turn brought up Dynamic content as something TOR is desperatley missing.
Believe me I have a list as long as my arm when it comes to RIFt and Trions stupidity.
Im speaking strictly of mechanics not the games overall.
If anything I think both games suck lol. The two mechanics are the only redeeming qualities of either game imo of course.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
although in many ways TOR is falling into the same trap RIFT did upon its release. Created a MMO with a couple new ideas but most of it is same old same old.. Now star wars obviously has the bigger fanbase for initial launch but ultimatly unless they roll out some big updates fast it falls into the same new MMO trying to do a couple things new to the genre but as a whole its more of the same.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
although in many ways TOR is falling into the same trap RIFT did upon its release. Created a MMO with a couple new ideas but most of it is same old same old.. Now star wars obviously has the bigger fanbase for initial launch but ultimatly unless they roll out some big updates fast it falls into the same new MMO trying to do a couple things new to the genre but as a whole its more of the same.
Well, I definitely don't agree with that, and I believe Bioware is going to roll out content updates in quick measure, but I guess we'll see soon enough.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
although in many ways TOR is falling into the same trap RIFT did upon its release. Created a MMO with a couple new ideas but most of it is same old same old.. Now star wars obviously has the bigger fanbase for initial launch but ultimatly unless they roll out some big updates fast it falls into the same new MMO trying to do a couple things new to the genre but as a whole its more of the same.
rift was poor from the get go, it was well polished that was it.
it had 4 classes thats all, with a huge amount of skill trees though) 2 starting areas. and then it had these so called dynamic events which were really nothing more then random mob spawns. that were reskinned. and atiny world.
It was a bland game. I played for 2 months and the 2nd month was a n aciident forgot to unsubscribe.
I honestly swotor see myself slef wanting to level up all the different classes to see there stories alone.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
although in many ways TOR is falling into the same trap RIFT did upon its release. Created a MMO with a couple new ideas but most of it is same old same old.. Now star wars obviously has the bigger fanbase for initial launch but ultimatly unless they roll out some big updates fast it falls into the same new MMO trying to do a couple things new to the genre but as a whole its more of the same.
Well, I definitely don't agree with that, and I believe Bioware is going to roll out content updates in quick measure, but I guess we'll see soon enough.
You have a lot of faith in a developer that never created a mmorpg before.
I personally just don't see a story centric driven mmorpg remaining interesting to a playerbase that devours content at such an insane pace.
I remember having a similar discussion on the Lotro forums during that games release. How its personal epic story arc would offer limitless content to its players. Three months later people were crying for content and every left.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
although in many ways TOR is falling into the same trap RIFT did upon its release. Created a MMO with a couple new ideas but most of it is same old same old.. Now star wars obviously has the bigger fanbase for initial launch but ultimatly unless they roll out some big updates fast it falls into the same new MMO trying to do a couple things new to the genre but as a whole its more of the same.
rift was poor from the get go, it was well polished that was it.
it had 4 classes thats all, with a huge amount of skill trees though
SWTOR offers four mirrored classes with six talent trees that are split in two.
RIFT had four callings with 8 talent trees to mix and match into a tri-tree spec with five savable specs to flip between on the fly.
I hate VS discussions but on the topic of classes in either game I believe RIFT may take that one.
rift was poor from the get go, it was well polished that was it.
it had 4 classes thats all, with a huge amount of skill trees though) 2 starting areas. and then it had these so called dynamic events which were really nothing more then random mob spawns. that were reskinned. and atiny world.
It was a bland game. I played for 2 months and the 2nd month was a n aciident forgot to unsubscribe.
I honestly swotor see myself slef wanting to level up all the different classes to see there stories alone.
I actually really enjoyed rift for about 6 mnoths and so did many others. It just fell into the all to familar trap and never got out.. Hopefully TOR won't repeat this...
You have a lot of faith in a developer that never created a mmorpg before.
I personally just don't see a story centric driven mmorpg remaining interesting to a playerbase that devours content at such an insane pace.
I remember having a similar discussion on the Lotro forums during that games release. How its personal epic story arc would offer limitless content to its players. Three months later people were crying for content and every left.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but how many MMOs had Blizzard cranked out before WoW? And how many mistakes has SOE made with their countless MMOs that you would think they'd learn from? So yeah...I'm not buying that line.
And the Lotro game has been a pretty successful game for several years now. The reason they weren't able to grow was because Turbine just got lazy with their content updates and was too handcuffed by the lore. That game could very well have had limitless content if Turbine hadn't fallen asleep at the wheel.
SWTOR offers four mirrored classes with six talent trees that are split in two.
RIFT had four callings with 8 talent trees to mix and match into a tri-tree spec with five savable specs to flip between on the fly.
I hate VS discussions but on the topic of classes in either game I believe RIFT may take that one.
agree with this rifts classes and soul system are what really kept people around.. Being able to switch roles at the drop of a hat was such an amazing feature its honestly hard to go back to a game without it.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
although in many ways TOR is falling into the same trap RIFT did upon its release. Created a MMO with a couple new ideas but most of it is same old same old.. Now star wars obviously has the bigger fanbase for initial launch but ultimatly unless they roll out some big updates fast it falls into the same new MMO trying to do a couple things new to the genre but as a whole its more of the same.
rift was poor from the get go, it was well polished that was it.
it had 4 classes thats all, with a huge amount of skill trees though
SWTOR offers four mirrored classes with six talent trees that are split in two.
RIFT had four callings with 8 talent trees to mix and match into a tri-tree spec with five savable specs to flip between on the fly.
I hate VS discussions but on the topic of classes in either game I believe RIFT may take that one.
8 mirrored classes, not 4. Advanced class are their own class.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
although in many ways TOR is falling into the same trap RIFT did upon its release. Created a MMO with a couple new ideas but most of it is same old same old.. Now star wars obviously has the bigger fanbase for initial launch but ultimatly unless they roll out some big updates fast it falls into the same new MMO trying to do a couple things new to the genre but as a whole its more of the same.
Well, I definitely don't agree with that, and I believe Bioware is going to roll out content updates in quick measure, but I guess we'll see soon enough.
You have a lot of faith in a developer that never created a mmorpg before.
I personally just don't see a story centric driven mmorpg remaining interesting to a playerbase that devours content at such an insane pace.
I remember having a similar discussion on the Lotro forums during that games release. How its personal epic story arc would offer limitless content to its players. Three months later people were crying for content and every left.
Remember when that other company without mmorpg experience made a game... what was it called? Oh, yeah, Warcraft.
We have faith in a developer who has repeatedly put out great games. A developer who generally lives up to their promises and delivers what they say they will. Most importantly, a developer who gave us KOTOR!
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
although in many ways TOR is falling into the same trap RIFT did upon its release. Created a MMO with a couple new ideas but most of it is same old same old.. Now star wars obviously has the bigger fanbase for initial launch but ultimatly unless they roll out some big updates fast it falls into the same new MMO trying to do a couple things new to the genre but as a whole its more of the same.
Well, I definitely don't agree with that, and I believe Bioware is going to roll out content updates in quick measure, but I guess we'll see soon enough.
Content updates?
Sure they propably will, considering money they'l get from millions of boxes and subs they better do.
Though it still won't change what Swtor is at it's core. Mmorpg that is same in it basic ideas and mechanics like WoW and Rift.
It is basically: linear questing experience with end-game based on running instanced dungeons and BG + Limited contest zones on PvP server.
Progression done by grinding gear in instances.
Exactly same idea like in WoW and Rift and most of recent mmorpg's out there. Cookie cutter.
Just dialogues with VO slapped on top of it.
Sure BW will release more content. Rift did as well.
They'll add more dungeons and some zone or zones. Then they'll release expansion and add 5-10 more levels that will make your gear obsolete and give you new dungeons to run.
This game will have same strenghts and suffer from same structural problems like Rift and WoW do.
I predict cross-server LFG tools in max. ~ 6 months from now on in Swtor and people complaining that it is yet another lobby game, that you queue to grind instances.
Nothing wrong with that if someone like it (and certainly many people do), but it is same old thing and same old game concept that is since EQ1, but WoW did streamlined it and brought it to whole new level of co-op lobby game experience.
You have a lot of faith in a developer that never created a mmorpg before.
I personally just don't see a story centric driven mmorpg remaining interesting to a playerbase that devours content at such an insane pace.
I remember having a similar discussion on the Lotro forums during that games release. How its personal epic story arc would offer limitless content to its players. Three months later people were crying for content and every left.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but how many MMOs had Blizzard cranked out before WoW? And how many mistakes has SOE made with their countless MMOs that you would think they'd learn from? So yeah...I'm not buying that line.
And the Lotro game has been a pretty successful game for several years now. The reason they weren't able to grow was because Turbine just got lazy with their content updates and was too handcuffed by the lore. That game could very well have had limitless content if Turbine hadn't fallen asleep at the wheel.
Blizzard was one in a sub genre that releases a hundred freaking mmos a year.
Honestly though, What if people get tired of the questing? What does TOR have to hold you guys there? Raids? Meaningless objective based pvp with no risk or reward other than toekns for armor ? faction Gear grinds?
Honestly haven't we all gotten a little tired the same flavor carrot?
RIFT had the most flexible class system we've ever seen and world focused content when the entire genre was queuing for dungeons and BGs in WoW and still most of the players left. Simply adding voice overs to NPCs and a a slight branching of quest progression is supposed to keep players?
d I believe Bioware is going to roll out content updates in quick measure, but I guess we'll see soon enough.
Content updates?
Sure they propably will, considering money they'l get from millions of boxes and subs they better do.
Though it still won't change what Swtor is at it's core. Mmorpg that is same in it basic ideas and mechanics like WoW and Rift.
It is basically: linear questing experience with end-game based on running instanced dungeons and BG + Limited contest zones on PvP server.
Progression done by grinding gear in instances.
Exactly same idea like in WoW and Rift and most of recent mmorpg's out there. Cookie cutter.
Just dialogues with VO slapped on top of it.
Sure BW will release more content. Rift did as well.
They'll add more dungeons and some zone or zones. Then they'll release expansion and add 5-10 more levels that will make your gear obsolete and give you new dungeons to run.
This game will have same strenghts and suffer from same structural problems like Rift and WoW do.
I predict cross-server LFG tools in max. ~ 6 months from now on in Swtor and people complaining that it is yet another lobby game, that you queue to grind instances.
Nothing wrong with that if someone like it (and certainly many people do), but it is same old thing and same old game concept that is since EQ1, but WoW did streamlined it and brought it to whole new level of co-op lobby game experience.
I know that this might be hard to believe, but there is still a large audience for that type of game. If a game is polished enough and adds their own twists on an existing style, there is no reason to think it will automatically fail, as long as what they are adding keeps the attention of people.
Scoff if you want at the voiceovers that are just "slapped on" to an existing questing system, but it's a bit more than just that. The story element of this game will keep people interested for a long time, and contrary to some people's beliefs, the story won't end at level 50. You can be rest assured that the content updates will be geared towards moving that story along, just like Turbine originally did with their Lotro updates. Hopefully, Bioware provides updates quicker than Turbine did to keep it fresh.
Whether you place value on that story is your own personal preference, but do not underestimate the amount of people that are drawn in by it.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
although in many ways TOR is falling into the same trap RIFT did upon its release. Created a MMO with a couple new ideas but most of it is same old same old.. Now star wars obviously has the bigger fanbase for initial launch but ultimatly unless they roll out some big updates fast it falls into the same new MMO trying to do a couple things new to the genre but as a whole its more of the same.
Well, I definitely don't agree with that, and I believe Bioware is going to roll out content updates in quick measure, but I guess we'll see soon enough.
You have a lot of faith in a developer that never created a mmorpg before.
I personally just don't see a story centric driven mmorpg remaining interesting to a playerbase that devours content at such an insane pace.
I remember having a similar discussion on the Lotro forums during that games release. How its personal epic story arc would offer limitless content to its players. Three months later people were crying for content and every left.
Remember when that other company without mmorpg experience made a game... what was it called? Oh, yeah, Warcraft.
We have faith in a developer who has repeatedly put out great games. A developer who generally lives up to their promises and delivers what they say they will. Most importantly, a developer who gave us KOTOR!
If someone made the same statement of Blizzard having not developed or launched a MMO prior to WoW, it would have been just as poignant.
Blizzard was as unproven in the MMO space at that point as Bioware are now.
Blizzard has since proven themselves quite capable of launching and maintaining a successful MMO (personal opinions of it notwithstanding) over a span of years.
Bioware has proven the ability to make successful single player RPGs with limited multiplayer in some cases (e.g. Neverwinter Nights).
They have not proven themselves in the MMO genre yet.
That you or others might feel it's somehow inevitable that it'll be some amazing success, or that Bioware will kick out new content aplenty is nothing but wishful thinking at this point. It's conjecture at best. Nothing is "inevitable". Nothing is "guaranteed" until it happens.
Just like every other MMO to release, the full picture will not become clear until a few months after the game's launch; once the newness has worn off, the hype has died down, the subscriptions kick in and people have played through the content and are faced with what the game fully offers them.
Now, that's not "being a hater", since I know somenoe's going to try and spin it that way. It's simple logic.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I know that this might be hard to believe, but there is still a large audience for that type of game. If a game is polished enough and adds their own twists on an existing style, there is no reason to think it will automatically fail, as long as what they are adding keeps the attention of people.
Scoff if you want at the voiceovers that are just "slapped on" to an existing questing system, but it's a bit more than just that. The story element of this game will keep people interested for a long time, and contrary to some people's beliefs, the story won't end at level 50. You can be rest assured that the content updates will be geared towards moving that story along, just like Turbine originally did with their Lotro updates. Hopefully, Bioware provides updates quicker than Turbine did to keep it fresh.
Whether you place value on that story is your own personal preference, but do not underestimate the amount of people that are drawn in by it.
I agree there IS still a big market for this type of game especially in a sci-fi setting. The problem they are going to face is if some of these 2012 games can actually break the mold and offer something truly new to the core mechanics of the genre people will leave TOR in droves... it was my hope TOR would be that game to break the mold since I love star wars so much...
RIFT max active subscription can't break 600k. why people keep talking about RIFT? it is a failed game. rift keep advertising f2p for months already !! this shows how desparate they are. face it people, failed game is a failed game.
let see how much subscription can tor break through, i am pretty sure it will beat rift, no contest.
Comments
I have to get back on this. It just deserves thumbs up.
Can't really say how damn annoying it was to run a flashpoint with a PUG, bet all of them these "GOGOGO"-kiddies.
It was like:
"HURRY UP!!" SMASH 1,1,2,SPCBAR,SPCBAR. "WTF IS TAKING SO LONG?!"
I'm trying to listen the NPC talking and hoping that they can't kick me out of a group and I have to start it all over again with another PUG. Then it's rush to fight, rush to fight, some *sshole loots all the corpses and salvages all the droids. No, there's really not time to explore the areas, since you are left alone.
"MORT WHERE R U?!"
Damn, wish I'd be here with my guild.
Having a hundred different rift spawn points in a zone that spawn in any of those locations with different types depending on zone activity is dynamic while pulling from 20+ types of rifts per zone is Dynamic.
Randomly spawning a zone invasion pulled from over a dozen different ones at any time is dynamic.
Sure it may not be completely random content when each and every one is so different that you wont see the same one in a week of playing but its still dynamic and keep in mind the mechanic is kind of new. im sure other games will run with it.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Errmm, I'll admit this is sometimes the case, but many times while running missions both on my Agent and Inquisitor I was presented with multiple darkside or lightside options in a single dialog. And the options often have secondary effects like pick dark side option A .. more DS points but your companion hates it, pick DS option B less points but your companion gets happy. And I didn't really find the options all that generic. Also I noticed something very interesting.. and maybe this was just my brain getting into my character a bit much but by the time I hit DS 3 on my inquisitor (soooo fun being evil) .. it literally sounded like she was getting more viscious in how she spoke and her options just became like downright sinister. I'm actually curious if your chat options change with your alignment path.. cause it sure seemed that way.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
actually no this was 7 months after launch.. at 50 I never had issue getting a full raid together to do any zone event in the final 3 areas stillmoor, shimmersand, and IPP.. Also since a lot of the world invasion quests were completed by doing the zone invasion many people kept on them month after month.. Only reason I really left was cause PVP had no meaningful endgame and FOTM every single patch was getting old.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Your expectations of what dynamic content should offer far exceeds what can be done currently in the mmorpg genre.
Even GW2 will offer only a set amount of content randomly spawned at set points, ultimately just spawning an encounter for a zone of players that ultimately changes nothing.
The "Story Change" that you like in SWTOR is nothing but a branching arc, something we've seen in the RPG sp genre for twenty years and ultimately isnt very interesting because they all lead to the same two or three conclusions that offer limited replay value.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Yeah I totally get where you are comming from. During the loong down time til Early Access I fired up Eve again and I was like "WTF am I doing here watching paint dry" the smallest thing takes insane amount of time and effort and is simply not something I consider worth my time. The Cruicible patch fixed alot of things, but too little too late I can't be arsed with games that feel like a job anymore. I want fun and I want immersion or nothing at all.
That's the thing. Always it is obvious what options you have. It is always crystal clear and obvious.
I just miss conversation being more realistic and in-depth like they are in some titles I mentioned.
Bioware is just using same simplified system lately in all their games. ME2, DA2 and Swtor all share same dialogue system (with tiny diffrences) and it feel like dialogue in some straight to face action movie instead being dialogues like in some quality drama or good book.
Just imho.
The point is, you haven't seen it in an MMO to this extent. And one thing a Rift player should NEVER do is bring up the "replay value" argument, because few games have less of that than Rift.
My main issue with Rift, aside from an extemely dull world and game, is that Trion basically sabotaged their own commitment to server community with their post-patch implementations. When the game was launched, the big draw was the rifts and invasions. Dynamic events that required the help of the community to complete. I personally found the rifts and invasions to be boring as hell after about 20 levels because like I said, each rift and invasion was nothing more than a reskin of another, and they turned into nothing more than mobile "Kill X of Y mob" quest hubs. But that aside, the idea was a good one at first. Spawn randomish events that involve the whole community of the server.
And then they introduced the cross-shard warfront tool.
And then they introduced the cross-shard LFG tool.
And now, the ultimate insult, they've introduced the Instant Adventure tool, which has to go down as the most idiotic idea in the history of mmorpgs. Queued up quests.
So now suddenly, they've turned a once-promising game that was going to depend on large-scale community involvement into a fucking lobby game. You can literally level up to cap in Rift by spending your time in queues and playing against/with people you may never interact with again. Those three features are community killers, and they go against everything Trion "claimed" that their game stood for.
My personal opinion after playing Rift for several months and TOR for two beta weekends, is that I got more enjoyment, felt more immersed, and cared more about the world in TOR than I ever felt in all the time I played Rift. Mileage may very, and your opinion is obviously different, but I think the subscription numbers will prove this in the next year or so. Rift is in for some hard times, and Trion only has itself to blame for streamlining the game into such a mindless, boring grind that people are beginning to jump ship in droves.
Your mistaking this conversation for a Rift vs TOR discussion when in actuallity its a Dynamic content Vs Spoken dialog mechanic debate.
The OP stated he tired of RIFt on his return due to its lack of voiced dialog and I in turn brought up Dynamic content as something TOR is desperatley missing.
Believe me I have a list as long as my arm when it comes to RIFt and Trions stupidity.
Im speaking strictly of mechanics not the games overall.
If anything I think both games suck lol. The two mechanics are the only redeeming qualities of either game imo of course.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
although in many ways TOR is falling into the same trap RIFT did upon its release. Created a MMO with a couple new ideas but most of it is same old same old.. Now star wars obviously has the bigger fanbase for initial launch but ultimatly unless they roll out some big updates fast it falls into the same new MMO trying to do a couple things new to the genre but as a whole its more of the same.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Well, I definitely don't agree with that, and I believe Bioware is going to roll out content updates in quick measure, but I guess we'll see soon enough.
rift was poor from the get go, it was well polished that was it.
it had 4 classes thats all, with a huge amount of skill trees though) 2 starting areas. and then it had these so called dynamic events which were really nothing more then random mob spawns. that were reskinned. and atiny world.
It was a bland game. I played for 2 months and the 2nd month was a n aciident forgot to unsubscribe.
I honestly swotor see myself slef wanting to level up all the different classes to see there stories alone.
You have a lot of faith in a developer that never created a mmorpg before.
I personally just don't see a story centric driven mmorpg remaining interesting to a playerbase that devours content at such an insane pace.
I remember having a similar discussion on the Lotro forums during that games release. How its personal epic story arc would offer limitless content to its players. Three months later people were crying for content and every left.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
SWTOR offers four mirrored classes with six talent trees that are split in two.
RIFT had four callings with 8 talent trees to mix and match into a tri-tree spec with five savable specs to flip between on the fly.
I hate VS discussions but on the topic of classes in either game I believe RIFT may take that one.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
I actually really enjoyed rift for about 6 mnoths and so did many others. It just fell into the all to familar trap and never got out.. Hopefully TOR won't repeat this...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Correct me if I'm wrong, but how many MMOs had Blizzard cranked out before WoW? And how many mistakes has SOE made with their countless MMOs that you would think they'd learn from? So yeah...I'm not buying that line.
And the Lotro game has been a pretty successful game for several years now. The reason they weren't able to grow was because Turbine just got lazy with their content updates and was too handcuffed by the lore. That game could very well have had limitless content if Turbine hadn't fallen asleep at the wheel.
agree with this rifts classes and soul system are what really kept people around.. Being able to switch roles at the drop of a hat was such an amazing feature its honestly hard to go back to a game without it.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
8 mirrored classes, not 4. Advanced class are their own class.
Remember when that other company without mmorpg experience made a game... what was it called? Oh, yeah, Warcraft.
We have faith in a developer who has repeatedly put out great games. A developer who generally lives up to their promises and delivers what they say they will. Most importantly, a developer who gave us KOTOR!
Content updates?
Sure they propably will, considering money they'l get from millions of boxes and subs they better do.
Though it still won't change what Swtor is at it's core. Mmorpg that is same in it basic ideas and mechanics like WoW and Rift.
It is basically: linear questing experience with end-game based on running instanced dungeons and BG + Limited contest zones on PvP server.
Progression done by grinding gear in instances.
Exactly same idea like in WoW and Rift and most of recent mmorpg's out there. Cookie cutter.
Just dialogues with VO slapped on top of it.
Sure BW will release more content. Rift did as well.
They'll add more dungeons and some zone or zones. Then they'll release expansion and add 5-10 more levels that will make your gear obsolete and give you new dungeons to run.
This game will have same strenghts and suffer from same structural problems like Rift and WoW do.
I predict cross-server LFG tools in max. ~ 6 months from now on in Swtor and people complaining that it is yet another lobby game, that you queue to grind instances.
Nothing wrong with that if someone like it (and certainly many people do), but it is same old thing and same old game concept that is since EQ1, but WoW did streamlined it and brought it to whole new level of co-op lobby game experience.
Blizzard was one in a sub genre that releases a hundred freaking mmos a year.
Honestly though, What if people get tired of the questing? What does TOR have to hold you guys there? Raids? Meaningless objective based pvp with no risk or reward other than toekns for armor ? faction Gear grinds?
Honestly haven't we all gotten a little tired the same flavor carrot?
RIFT had the most flexible class system we've ever seen and world focused content when the entire genre was queuing for dungeons and BGs in WoW and still most of the players left. Simply adding voice overs to NPCs and a a slight branching of quest progression is supposed to keep players?
I'm not convinced it will.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
I know that this might be hard to believe, but there is still a large audience for that type of game. If a game is polished enough and adds their own twists on an existing style, there is no reason to think it will automatically fail, as long as what they are adding keeps the attention of people.
Scoff if you want at the voiceovers that are just "slapped on" to an existing questing system, but it's a bit more than just that. The story element of this game will keep people interested for a long time, and contrary to some people's beliefs, the story won't end at level 50. You can be rest assured that the content updates will be geared towards moving that story along, just like Turbine originally did with their Lotro updates. Hopefully, Bioware provides updates quicker than Turbine did to keep it fresh.
Whether you place value on that story is your own personal preference, but do not underestimate the amount of people that are drawn in by it.
If someone made the same statement of Blizzard having not developed or launched a MMO prior to WoW, it would have been just as poignant.
Blizzard was as unproven in the MMO space at that point as Bioware are now.
Blizzard has since proven themselves quite capable of launching and maintaining a successful MMO (personal opinions of it notwithstanding) over a span of years.
Bioware has proven the ability to make successful single player RPGs with limited multiplayer in some cases (e.g. Neverwinter Nights).
They have not proven themselves in the MMO genre yet.
That you or others might feel it's somehow inevitable that it'll be some amazing success, or that Bioware will kick out new content aplenty is nothing but wishful thinking at this point. It's conjecture at best. Nothing is "inevitable". Nothing is "guaranteed" until it happens.
Just like every other MMO to release, the full picture will not become clear until a few months after the game's launch; once the newness has worn off, the hype has died down, the subscriptions kick in and people have played through the content and are faced with what the game fully offers them.
Now, that's not "being a hater", since I know somenoe's going to try and spin it that way. It's simple logic.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I agree there IS still a big market for this type of game especially in a sci-fi setting. The problem they are going to face is if some of these 2012 games can actually break the mold and offer something truly new to the core mechanics of the genre people will leave TOR in droves... it was my hope TOR would be that game to break the mold since I love star wars so much...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
RIFT max active subscription can't break 600k. why people keep talking about RIFT? it is a failed game. rift keep advertising f2p for months already !! this shows how desparate they are. face it people, failed game is a failed game.
let see how much subscription can tor break through, i am pretty sure it will beat rift, no contest.
ps: forum no spell/grammer check?
Which FF Character Are You?