Will Raiding Be Competitive?

i_own_ui_own_u Member UncommonPosts: 314

I posted this on General Discussion on SWTOR forums, but I want to know what you guys think?

Question is in the title. Do you think that Raiding in TOR will be (not equivalent to) a viable competitive aspect for guilds to compete. Enough so, that sites like WoWProgess will be implemented to track top guild's achievements? Or do you think it will be an easy blow-off and the entire Operation will be down in the first couple weeks.

Comments

  • TalintTalint Ypsilanti, MIMember UncommonPosts: 166

    It will be competetive.  Developers have already stated this.  They even have three modes:

    Normal -> Hard -> Nightmare.

     

    Good luck on Nightmare by the way.  Only the elite will complete that.

    Non sibi sed patriae

    image
  • i_own_ui_own_u Member UncommonPosts: 314

    Originally posted by Talint

    It will be competetive.  Developers have already stated this.  They even have three modes:
    Normal -> Hard -> Nightmare.
     
    Good luck on Nightmare by the way.  Only the elite will complete that.

    Does the gear significantly scale with the difficulity of the raid? And if so, have they said they are organizing it into Tiers? I am just wondering this because I personally want a game that will keep my attention, and "hardcore" raiding is what keeps me.

  • TalintTalint Ypsilanti, MIMember UncommonPosts: 166

    Yes, the gear will scale significantly.  If you have normal mode gear, compared to nightmare gear from the same operation you will see a very noticable difference.  They reward the best players.  That's just how MMOs work.

    Non sibi sed patriae

    image
  • Badgered86Badgered86 Denver, COMember UncommonPosts: 175

    Originally posted by Talint

    Yes, the gear will scale significantly.  If you have normal mode gear, compared to nightmare gear from the same operation you will see a very noticable difference.  They reward the best players.  That's just how shallow loot treadmill MMOs work.

    Fixed that for you.

    If hardcore raiding (not that I dislike raiding or hardcore players) is all this game has to offer then it will flop.  I don't understand why developers keep creating the same tired loot treadmill end game only have their games hemorrhage subscriptions after a majority of their players hit the level cap.  If people wanted to play World of Warcraft, they'd still be playing World of Warcraft.

    Hopefully this game will have a truly open and expansive end game experience, but if not, the only people left after a few months will be raiders and extremely slow levelers. :(

  • TalintTalint Ypsilanti, MIMember UncommonPosts: 166

    Okay.  Don't get me wrong.  This game does not only offer raiding.  I was simply stating a fact that raiding will be competitive.

     

    Talint

    Non sibi sed patriae

    image
  • BlackraynBlackrayn H-town, IAMember Posts: 142

    Originally posted by Badgered86


    Originally posted by Talint


    Yes, the gear will scale significantly.  If you have normal mode gear, compared to nightmare gear from the same operation you will see a very noticable difference.  They reward the best players.  That's just how shallow loot treadmill MMOs work.

    Fixed that for you.

    If hardcore raiding (not that I dislike raiding or hardcore players) is all this game has to offer then it will flop.  I don't understand why developers keep creating the same tired loot treadmill end game only have their games hemorrhage subscriptions after a majority of their players hit the level cap.  If people wanted to play World of Warcraft, then they would just log in. Still 10 mil or so playing World of Warcraft.

    Hopefully this game will have a truly open and expansive end game experience, but if not, the only people left after a few months will be raiders and extremely slow levelers. :(

    Fixed that for you.

     And damn I hate defending it, but it's not like everyone has seriously left the game. I think it's hurting some. But, you could call me whatever you wanted if I was collecting the monthly subs for that many accounts.

  • Badgered86Badgered86 Denver, COMember UncommonPosts: 175

    Originally posted by Blackrayn


    Originally posted by Badgered86



    Originally posted by Talint


    Yes, the gear will scale significantly.  If you have normal mode gear, compared to nightmare gear from the same operation you will see a very noticable difference.  They reward the best players.  That's just how shallow loot treadmill MMOs work.

    Fixed that for you.

    If hardcore raiding (not that I dislike raiding or hardcore players) is all this game has to offer then it will flop.  I don't understand why developers keep creating the same tired loot treadmill end game only have their games hemorrhage subscriptions after a majority of their players hit the level cap.  If people wanted to play World of Warcraft, then they would just log in. Still 10 mil or so playing World of Warcraft.

    Hopefully this game will have a truly open and expansive end game experience, but if not, the only people left after a few months will be raiders and extremely slow levelers. :(

    Fixed that for you.

     And damn I hate defending it, but it's not like everyone has seriously left the game. I think it's hurting some. But, you could call me whatever you wanted if I was collecting the monthly subs for that many accounts.

    You misunderstood.  If people left World of Warcraft and wanted to play another game like World of Warcraft, they'd stay with the new games that have released over the past years. However, they don't, and while many return to World of Warcraft (where they have friends, guilds, and powerful characters) others do not. Every time a new game comes out this cycle repeats, and I think we've finally hit a critical point where many MMO gamers are just fed up with developers giving them the same old thing with a different skin.

    Yes, World of Warcraft still has millions of subscribers. However, they have already lost millions of subscribers, and it will take quite some time for the bleeding to stop. There will always be a dedicated following that keeps games afloat, and it will be a long time before we see that happen to World of Warcraft if the MMO market continues spitting out carbon-copies of that game.

    However, the moment a quality MMO releases that provides some meaningful change from the World of Warcraft loot treadmill model, you can expect to see the bottom fall out of World of Warcraft and its emaciated clones.

  • BlackraynBlackrayn H-town, IAMember Posts: 142

    Originally posted by Badgered86


    Originally posted by Blackrayn



    Originally posted by Badgered86



    Originally posted by Talint


    Yes, the gear will scale significantly.  If you have normal mode gear, compared to nightmare gear from the same operation you will see a very noticable difference.  They reward the best players.  That's just how shallow loot treadmill MMOs work.

    Fixed that for you.

    If hardcore raiding (not that I dislike raiding or hardcore players) is all this game has to offer then it will flop.  I don't understand why developers keep creating the same tired loot treadmill end game only have their games hemorrhage subscriptions after a majority of their players hit the level cap.  If people wanted to play World of Warcraft, then they would just log in. Still 10 mil or so playing World of Warcraft.

    Hopefully this game will have a truly open and expansive end game experience, but if not, the only people left after a few months will be raiders and extremely slow levelers. :(

    Fixed that for you.

     And damn I hate defending it, but it's not like everyone has seriously left the game. I think it's hurting some. But, you could call me whatever you wanted if I was collecting the monthly subs for that many accounts.

    You misunderstood.  If people left World of Warcraft and wanted to play another game like World of Warcraft, they'd stay with the new games that have released over the past years. However, they don't, and while many return to World of Warcraft (where they have friends, guilds, and powerful characters) others do not. Every time a new game comes out this cycle repeats, and I think we've finally hit a critical point where many MMO gamers are just fed up with developers giving them the same old thing with a different skin.

    Yes, World of Warcraft still has millions of subscribers. However, they have already lost millions of subscribers, and it will take quite some time for the bleeding to stop. There will always be a dedicated following that keeps games afloat, and it will be a long time before we see that happen to World of Warcraft if the MMO market continues spitting out carbon-copies of that game.

    However, the moment a quality MMO releases that provides some meaningful change from the World of Warcraft loot treadmill model, you can expect to see the bottom fall out of World of Warcraft and its emaciated clones.

     

     Fair enough. I just hope you enjoy the next 10 or so years (speculation of course) of playing nothing. For this ooh so great game to come out. Because the game you and a few other posters are looking for, is no where in sight.

  • GruugGruug Chillicothe, ILMember UncommonPosts: 1,547

    This is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth. I hate talk of "competitive raiding". Hate it with a passion. It is the biggest reason I don't care if I ever do raids (operations) in SWTOR. The whole thing has become far too much like a job and is NOT fun.

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Colorado Springs, COMember Posts: 4,183

    Just because it's there, doesn't mean you have to do it. There's plenty of other stuff to do.

    image

  • MagterMagter Spokane, WAMember Posts: 289

    Originally posted by Gruug

    This is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth. I hate talk of "competitive raiding". Hate it with a passion. It is the biggest reason I don't care if I ever do raids (operations) in SWTOR. The whole thing has become far too much like a job and is NOT fun.

    Agree with you on the whole job thing is not fun. I remember telling my brother to drop his guild because the guild leader was crying out at his guildmates because not enough people were online to do a raid. He yelled at the people who came though.

    There definitely needs to be more than raids. I personally hate anything more than 8 people doing an instance. It just becomes too much, I would rather just have high level and difficult dungeons or whatever.

    Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 12,987

    Bioware like all the other devs missed the boat on creating longevity.This is why they all just copy Wow's raiding treadmill,they see it work for them so they ok that's easy to implement ,let's copy it.

    Except they forget one thing ,like another poster mentioned,that has already been done and players are already tired of it.

    The perfect idea was right out of FFXi,that is if any dev actually pays attention to gaming outside of Wow.You don't have an END game need when your player doesn't end at level cap.The FFXI system beat that lame system by allowing sub classes to grow with your player,so you hit cap you keep growing,you don'tt become stagnant looking for gear that seriously has no use ,since your player is done leveling.

    I can see end game loot ,IF it is tied into pvp and that is all you care about,but i like to think there is VERY large number of players who would rather their player continues to grow rather than do the pvp thing.I would say many like myslef don't do pvp or end game raiding EVER,so then the game offers notihng.The crafting is not worth 2 cents, don't like the stigma of end game so the only alternative would be to retire that player and make another one,not a very good option and only ONE option at that.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKMember UncommonPosts: 1,510

    Originally posted by i_own_u

    I posted this on General Discussion on SWTOR forums, but I want to know what you guys think?
    Question is in the title. Do you think that Raiding in TOR will be (not equivalent to) a viable competitive aspect for guilds to compete. Enough so, that sites like WoWProgess will be implemented to track top guild's achievements? Or do you think it will be an easy blow-off and the entire Operation will be down in the first couple weeks.

     

    having 3 difficulty modes gives them a lot of room to really make encounters hard w/out alienating or pissing off players

  • chopgrchopgr AthensMember Posts: 179

    Once the bleeding starts, it never ends. Eventually it will bleed out to death.

     

    Wounds are hard to heal and in the case of WoW, a 8 years old game that has been a grind after the 2nd year, that wound will never close mate. Its fated.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/chopgr?feature=mhee

    "The Heavens burned, the stars
    cried out
    And under the ashes of infinity,
    Hope, scarred and bleeding,
    breathed its last."

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebMember Posts: 1,066

    Unfortunately they make that content because its most easy and lazy content to do.

    1) Create 1 raid

    2) Create few difficulties

    3) Require higher difficulties nees substancial gear from lower difficulties

    4) Put in ridiculously "hard" fights (more hp-damage usually with mabye few new skills/boss)

    5) Reduce drop rates to miniscule

    6) Tell people to farm same raid for 3-6 months

    7) Create few standard world quests and make them repeatable so you have exuse "theres something for everyone"

    Voila, your endgame for 3-6 months is done, and delusioned people will call it "deep"

    Though less and less people are biting on such lazy stuff.

  • thexratedthexrated OuluMember UncommonPosts: 1,368

    Originally posted by mikahr

    Unfortunately they make that content because its most easy and lazy content to do.
    1) Create 1 raid
    2) Create few difficulties
    3) Require higher difficulties nees substancial gear from lower difficulties
    4) Put in ridiculously "hard" fights (more hp-damage usually with mabye few new skills/boss)
    5) Reduce drop rates to miniscule
    6) Tell people to farm same raid for 3-6 months
    7) Create few standard world quests and make them repeatable so you have exuse "theres something for everyone"
    Voila, your endgame for 3-6 months is done, and delusioned people will call it "deep"
    Though less and less people are biting on such lazy stuff.

    That is the problem with the themepark MMOs. There are very few popular games that are not based on this psychological model. Acquistion of items to improve your character is a proven model and by far the most popular one in MMORPGs. In dynamic worlds, like EVE, it is less important or not the main goal of it.

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebMember Posts: 1,066

    Originally posted by thexrated


    Originally posted by mikahr


    Unfortunately they make that content because its most easy and lazy content to do.
    1) Create 1 raid
    2) Create few difficulties
    3) Require higher difficulties nees substancial gear from lower difficulties
    4) Put in ridiculously "hard" fights (more hp-damage usually with mabye few new skills/boss)
    5) Reduce drop rates to miniscule
    6) Tell people to farm same raid for 3-6 months
    7) Create few standard world quests and make them repeatable so you have exuse "theres something for everyone"
    Voila, your endgame for 3-6 months is done, and delusioned people will call it "deep"
    Though less and less people are biting on such lazy stuff.

    That is the problem with the themepark MMOs. There are very few popular games that are not based on this psychological model. Acquistion of items to improve your character is a proven model and by far the most popular one in MMORPGs. In dynamic worlds, like EVE, it is less important or not the main goal of it.

    To be more precise, there is only 1 popular game with this model. And that game also had trouble keeping people at endgame. And probably EVE is again 2nd most popular game in the west, doubt Rift has that many subs by now (although i have to salute Trion on heir marketing strategy, now you can pretty much pick up Rift for free or a pittance with standard 30 days included)

    And its one of my main gripes with SWTOR - they didnt even thought of improving it, rather went "reroll is endgame" - though it seems replayability is not even near what they advertised, 90% of content is same if you already played through same faction on another class.

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