I did get a chance to play it in CBT2, and the combat was more fluid than what you find in SW:ToR and it requires you to pay attention to your position when attacking and defending, because you can dodge and block attacks, as well as position yourself so that the enemy has to turn and face you to actually hit you. Standing toe-to-toe in this game is not recommended. You also do more damage to your target if you can get behind of out flank them.
Positioning does matter in TOR too, but positioning overall means a lot in other games like Phantasy Star, TERA, GW and so on. Blade and Soul will not change the way MMOs are created or the way they are played. It will not be a new revolution. We already have games on the market with very fluid and different combat, DCUO for instance, which actually puts a lot more emphasis on skillful combat than Blade and Soul (even in PvE) and does it very well.
Basically, all these new MMOs that people think are somehow inspirations I was playing back on the dreamcast... there is nothing new about them or gamechanging. That is all.
Not from my game experience it doesn't. Most combat is static, stand face to face and play whack-the-mole.
I did get a chance to play it in CBT2, and the combat was more fluid than what you find in SW:ToR and it requires you to pay attention to your position when attacking and defending, because you can dodge and block attacks, as well as position yourself so that the enemy has to turn and face you to actually hit you. Standing toe-to-toe in this game is not recommended. You also do more damage to your target if you can get behind of out flank them.
Positioning does matter in TOR too, but positioning overall means a lot in other games like Phantasy Star, TERA, GW and so on. Blade and Soul will not change the way MMOs are created or the way they are played. It will not be a new revolution. We already have games on the market with very fluid and different combat, DCUO for instance, which actually puts a lot more emphasis on skillful combat than Blade and Soul (even in PvE) and does it very well.
Basically, all these new MMOs that people think are somehow inspirations I was playing back on the dreamcast... there is nothing new about them or gamechanging. That is all.
Not from my game experience it doesn't. Most combat is static, stand face to face and play whack-the-mole.
Line of Sight plays a big part in TOR.... If your not facing your opponent you can't attack them.... Thats why you see jedi moving all the time
I did get a chance to play it in CBT2, and the combat was more fluid than what you find in SW:ToR and it requires you to pay attention to your position when attacking and defending, because you can dodge and block attacks, as well as position yourself so that the enemy has to turn and face you to actually hit you. Standing toe-to-toe in this game is not recommended. You also do more damage to your target if you can get behind of out flank them.
Positioning does matter in TOR too, but positioning overall means a lot in other games like Phantasy Star, TERA, GW and so on. Blade and Soul will not change the way MMOs are created or the way they are played. It will not be a new revolution. We already have games on the market with very fluid and different combat, DCUO for instance, which actually puts a lot more emphasis on skillful combat than Blade and Soul (even in PvE) and does it very well.
Basically, all these new MMOs that people think are somehow inspirations I was playing back on the dreamcast... there is nothing new about them or gamechanging. That is all.
Not from my game experience it doesn't. Most combat is static, stand face to face and play whack-the-mole.
The game doesn't have autofacing in PvP, you can't use some abilities unless you're behind enemies, in cover, etc, not to mention the standard MMO AOE areas where positioning an AOE in the right place will make the most of your damage capability, or moving in and out of range of abilities, which is important depending on what class you play.
You're telling me you'd really want to stand face to face Smuggler vs. Sith Warrior? Or just sit back and spam buttons, Consular vs Imperial Agent?
Just as you said with B&S, fighting face to face in these situations is not recommended... it doesn't meant you can't do it.
I did get a chance to play it in CBT2, and the combat was more fluid than what you find in SW:ToR and it requires you to pay attention to your position when attacking and defending, because you can dodge and block attacks, as well as position yourself so that the enemy has to turn and face you to actually hit you. Standing toe-to-toe in this game is not recommended. You also do more damage to your target if you can get behind of out flank them.
Positioning does matter in TOR too, but positioning overall means a lot in other games like Phantasy Star, TERA, GW and so on. Blade and Soul will not change the way MMOs are created or the way they are played. It will not be a new revolution. We already have games on the market with very fluid and different combat, DCUO for instance, which actually puts a lot more emphasis on skillful combat than Blade and Soul (even in PvE) and does it very well. Basically, all these new MMOs that people think are somehow inspirations I was playing back on the dreamcast... there is nothing new about them or gamechanging. That is all.
Not from my game experience it doesn't. Most combat is static, stand face to face and play whack-the-mole.
Not sure what classes you've played in ToR, but postitioning very important from Smugglers needing cover to Jedis who do massive crit damage from behind.
This doesn't look to be the case in B and S. B and S is just more DCUO combat, roll/dodge, attack roll/dodge. It's fun but Blade and Soul really isn't something revolutionary.
Just bigger boobs (arguably) and nicer graphics than DCUO.
I did get a chance to play it in CBT2, and the combat was more fluid than what you find in SW:ToR and it requires you to pay attention to your position when attacking and defending, because you can dodge and block attacks, as well as position yourself so that the enemy has to turn and face you to actually hit you. Standing toe-to-toe in this game is not recommended. You also do more damage to your target if you can get behind of out flank them.
Positioning does matter in TOR too, but positioning overall means a lot in other games like Phantasy Star, TERA, GW and so on. Blade and Soul will not change the way MMOs are created or the way they are played. It will not be a new revolution. We already have games on the market with very fluid and different combat, DCUO for instance, which actually puts a lot more emphasis on skillful combat than Blade and Soul (even in PvE) and does it very well.
Basically, all these new MMOs that people think are somehow inspirations I was playing back on the dreamcast... there is nothing new about them or gamechanging. That is all.
Not from my game experience it doesn't. Most combat is static, stand face to face and play whack-the-mole.
The game doesn't have autofacing in PvP, you can't use some abilities unless you're behind enemies, in cover, etc, not to mention the standard MMO AOE areas where positioning an AOE in the right place will make the most of your damage capability, or moving in and out of range of abilities, which is important depending on what class you play.
You're telling me you'd really want to stand face to face Smuggler vs. Sith Warrior? Or just sit back and spam buttons, Consular vs Imperial Agent?
Just as you said with B&S, fighting face to face in these situations is not recommended... it doesn't meant you can't do it.
PvP and PvE are two different things...the PvE in SW:ToR is a snooze fest. I am not talking PvP. Of course PvP is going to be more dynamic...most PvP in any MMO is going to be more dynamic because you are facing a player opponent.
Line of Sight plays a big part in TOR.... If your not facing your opponent you can't attack them.... Thats why you see jedi moving all the time
If the AI tried to take advantage of that, it would be a nice touch.. but it's hardly the same thing at all.
The AI now takes cover properly, and they switch weapons when you reach different ranges depending on the enemy you fight.
NPCs now take advantage of LOS, and also take into account the PC if you hide from them.
Where and when in SW:ToR does this happen? I saw it happen maybe a couple of times with a MOB, most stood in one place and spammed their ranged shot and it they had a melee weapon they would switch to it when you closed..other wise they didn't move or position themselves.
PvP and PvE are two different things...the PvE in SW:ToR is a snooze fest. I am not talking PvP. Of course PvP is going to be more dynamic...most PvP in any MMO is going to be more dynamic because you are facing a play opponent.
I think Eve Online when I think of PvE snoozefests to be honest.
PvP and PvE are two different things...the PvE in SW:ToR is a snooze fest. I am not talking PvP. Of course PvP is going to be more dynamic...most PvP in any MMO is going to be more dynamic because you are facing a play opponent.
I think Eve Online when I think of PvE snoozefests to be honest.
PvP and PvE are two different things...the PvE in SW:ToR is a snooze fest. I am not talking PvP. Of course PvP is going to be more dynamic...most PvP in any MMO is going to be more dynamic because you are facing a play opponent.
In that case you're right, until you get off the home world (not the starter planet, the HOME world) you won't find any engrossing PvE. Enemies don't start using real special abilities until aroun 16 - 17 for flashpoints, and about 25+ for world content, even though they did mention they were adding more special abilities.
I've had some engrossing battles in the mid 20s all the way to max level in SWTOR. But I feel where BioWare has faltered is they didn't put any of that content in the early levels. I've played the starter planets so much it truly is, as you say, somewhat of a PvE snooze fest. The only thing that consistently pulls me through to the fun content is the story. (and the ability to PvP at level 10.)
AoC combat ones were pretty good the deathblow animations were great but the jumping!!! like LOTRO online the jumping animation was just horrifyingly bad. But Swtor one isn't much better. I dunno why but jumping animations bother me so much when they are done bad and there are pretty awful in most MMOs
Agreed completely, I can live without a jumping animation in a MMORPG, but if it's done and done so horribly like in AoC or LoTRO.... ugh.
Ruins the game for me (especially when some ugly caster is jumping up and down on my perfect warrior's corpse :P)
Are you guys blind or what? Or is it just bashing for bashings sake? I mean for pete's sake, SWTOR is by no means perfect but the animations are really not an aspect to worry about. If you want to bash please take something that is at least worth bashing.
Yeah, I'm not sure what's so bad in the animations, I thought they were on the top end comparing to other mmorpgs I've played, they couldnt have better frames and the animations are very smooth and fluid and looks mostly good on the move too. The animations were something that struck positively me in the beta as one of the first things, especially after all those lagging and twitching trailers, none of that in game. But damn, the animations really are great in TOR, I forgot again where this topic is taking place.
Oh and, about AoC, that fatality video looks very good, too bad 90% of the development hours went doing those animations, thank god TOR has a lot bigger budget
PvP and PvE are two different things...the PvE in SW:ToR is a snooze fest. I am not talking PvP. Of course PvP is going to be more dynamic...most PvP in any MMO is going to be more dynamic because you are facing a player opponent.
Just because you choose to play one way doesn't mean it's the only way. Yes, a handful of classes don't really have to do much positioning in PvE, but the majority of them benefit from positioning.
If you're letting enemies gang up on you in melee as a BH mercenary without using your CC/kiting or an Operative not fishing for free Backstabs, that only speaks of your ability to play the classes, not the gameplay per se.
Now, I'm not saying the combat is orgasmic, it isn't, but it's certainly not a PvE snooze fest like say EVE.
AoC combat ones were pretty good the deathblow animations were great but the jumping!!! like LOTRO online the jumping animation was just horrifyingly bad. But Swtor one isn't much better. I dunno why but jumping animations bother me so much when they are done bad and there are pretty awful in most MMOs
Agreed completely, I can live without a jumping animation in a MMORPG, but if it's done and done so horribly like in AoC or LoTRO.... ugh.
Ruins the game for me (especially when some ugly caster is jumping up and down on my perfect warrior's corpse :P)
I think WoW did a decent job with their Jumping animations -- although I do agree it can be annoying.
Personally, if I have to see jumping, I want to see good animaitons, instead of the generic potato sac race hop.
Its not that those animations are bad, its that they are totally wrong. Light saber don't do anything visually, they should have stunning effcet like AoC, and the gun shoot at 5 cm from the oponent head once more without any kind of visual effcet, this is just plain wrong. You can put bouncing boobz all over in subliminal effect, it would still look wrong.
You know, in some cultures that means they're now legally married.
If I remember correctly, most combat moves required to be 5 feet at most from your target - so this video you see is happens when combat bugs out and some player visually slides away a bit.
Check out this video though - it has all the Jedi lightsaber moves:
PvP and PvE are two different things...the PvE in SW:ToR is a snooze fest. I am not talking PvP. Of course PvP is going to be more dynamic...most PvP in any MMO is going to be more dynamic because you are facing a play opponent.
In that case you're right, until you get off the home world (not the starter planet, the HOME world) you won't find any engrossing PvE. Enemies don't start using real special abilities until aroun 16 - 17 for flashpoints, and about 25+ for world content, even though they did mention they were adding more special abilities.
I've had some engrossing battles in the mid 20s all the way to max level in SWTOR. But I feel where BioWare has faltered is they didn't put any of that content in the early levels. I've played the starter planets so much it truly is, as you say, somewhat of a PvE snooze fest. The only thing that consistently pulls me through to the fun content is the story. (and the ability to PvP at level 10.)
Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.
PvP and PvE are two different things...the PvE in SW:ToR is a snooze fest. I am not talking PvP. Of course PvP is going to be more dynamic...most PvP in any MMO is going to be more dynamic because you are facing a play opponent.
In that case you're right, until you get off the home world (not the starter planet, the HOME world) you won't find any engrossing PvE. Enemies don't start using real special abilities until aroun 16 - 17 for flashpoints, and about 25+ for world content, even though they did mention they were adding more special abilities.
I've had some engrossing battles in the mid 20s all the way to max level in SWTOR. But I feel where BioWare has faltered is they didn't put any of that content in the early levels. I've played the starter planets so much it truly is, as you say, somewhat of a PvE snooze fest. The only thing that consistently pulls me through to the fun content is the story. (and the ability to PvP at level 10.)
Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.
Yes, I know, and really as the starter world is just an extended tutorial, and the home world is really just getting and learning your advanced class, I understand why experienced MMO players feel a little bored.
There really isn't much of a challenge for a lot of the early content, and there isn't supposed to be, I think a big part of what BioWare is banking on, is bringing in a lot of people who haven't played MMOs or haven't played very many of them, whereas, just about everyone here has likely played 5 or more within the last year or two.
The early game isn't indicative of what to expect at higher levels, but for those who are looking for a more challenging MMO, they won't get it right out of the gate with SWTOR. It just wasn't built like that.
Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.
Wasn't it Blizzard that did a study showing that a huge percentage of players who didn't subscribe past the free month never even made it past level 15?
First impressions are important, and I think animation quality can be a major part of that.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.
Wasn't it Blizzard that did a study showing that a huge percentage of players who didn't subscribe past the free month never even made it past level 15?
First impressions are important, and I think animation quality can be a major part of that.
Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.
Wasn't it Blizzard that did a study showing that a huge percentage of players who didn't subscribe past the free month never even made it past level 15?
First impressions are important, and I think animation quality can be a major part of that.
My thoughts exactly.
I concur.. to some degree.. but BioWares mainstay isn't going to be the early game - as far as gameplay is concerned, people will stick with the early game because they want to follow the story. People will connect with strategic gameplay when they hit the late teens.
Voiceover... and that's pretty much it. I'd wager 80% or more of the total budget went to the voice acting. Remove that, and it becomes an extremely pedestrian MMO.
Comments
Except it looked lame when fighting another player there must be 20 feet between them lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVCcsF4S3s8&feature=related
Not from my game experience it doesn't. Most combat is static, stand face to face and play whack-the-mole.
Line of Sight plays a big part in TOR.... If your not facing your opponent you can't attack them.... Thats why you see jedi moving all the time
If the AI tried to take advantage of that, it would be a nice touch.. but it's hardly the same thing at all.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
The game doesn't have autofacing in PvP, you can't use some abilities unless you're behind enemies, in cover, etc, not to mention the standard MMO AOE areas where positioning an AOE in the right place will make the most of your damage capability, or moving in and out of range of abilities, which is important depending on what class you play.
You're telling me you'd really want to stand face to face Smuggler vs. Sith Warrior? Or just sit back and spam buttons, Consular vs Imperial Agent?
Just as you said with B&S, fighting face to face in these situations is not recommended... it doesn't meant you can't do it.
The AI now takes cover properly, and they switch weapons when you reach different ranges depending on the enemy you fight.
NPCs now take advantage of LOS, and also take into account the PC if you hide from them.
This doesn't look to be the case in B and S. B and S is just more DCUO combat, roll/dodge, attack roll/dodge. It's fun but Blade and Soul really isn't something revolutionary.
Just bigger boobs (arguably) and nicer graphics than DCUO.
"TO MICHAEL!"
PvP and PvE are two different things...the PvE in SW:ToR is a snooze fest. I am not talking PvP. Of course PvP is going to be more dynamic...most PvP in any MMO is going to be more dynamic because you are facing a player opponent.
Where and when in SW:ToR does this happen? I saw it happen maybe a couple of times with a MOB, most stood in one place and spammed their ranged shot and it they had a melee weapon they would switch to it when you closed..other wise they didn't move or position themselves.
I think Eve Online when I think of PvE snoozefests to be honest.
Good for you.
In that case you're right, until you get off the home world (not the starter planet, the HOME world) you won't find any engrossing PvE. Enemies don't start using real special abilities until aroun 16 - 17 for flashpoints, and about 25+ for world content, even though they did mention they were adding more special abilities.
I've had some engrossing battles in the mid 20s all the way to max level in SWTOR. But I feel where BioWare has faltered is they didn't put any of that content in the early levels. I've played the starter planets so much it truly is, as you say, somewhat of a PvE snooze fest. The only thing that consistently pulls me through to the fun content is the story. (and the ability to PvP at level 10.)
Agreed completely, I can live without a jumping animation in a MMORPG, but if it's done and done so horribly like in AoC or LoTRO.... ugh.
Ruins the game for me (especially when some ugly caster is jumping up and down on my perfect warrior's corpse :P)
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVCcsF4S3s8&feature=related
oO
He was stabbing the souls of her feet.
You know, in some cultures that means they're now legally married.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Yeah, I'm not sure what's so bad in the animations, I thought they were on the top end comparing to other mmorpgs I've played, they couldnt have better frames and the animations are very smooth and fluid and looks mostly good on the move too. The animations were something that struck positively me in the beta as one of the first things, especially after all those lagging and twitching trailers, none of that in game. But damn, the animations really are great in TOR, I forgot again where this topic is taking place.
Oh and, about AoC, that fatality video looks very good, too bad 90% of the development hours went doing those animations, thank god TOR has a lot bigger budget
Just because you choose to play one way doesn't mean it's the only way. Yes, a handful of classes don't really have to do much positioning in PvE, but the majority of them benefit from positioning.
If you're letting enemies gang up on you in melee as a BH mercenary without using your CC/kiting or an Operative not fishing for free Backstabs, that only speaks of your ability to play the classes, not the gameplay per se.
Now, I'm not saying the combat is orgasmic, it isn't, but it's certainly not a PvE snooze fest like say EVE.
I think WoW did a decent job with their Jumping animations -- although I do agree it can be annoying.
Personally, if I have to see jumping, I want to see good animaitons, instead of the generic potato sac race hop.
Its not that those animations are bad, its that they are totally wrong. Light saber don't do anything visually, they should have stunning effcet like AoC, and the gun shoot at 5 cm from the oponent head once more without any kind of visual effcet, this is just plain wrong. You can put bouncing boobz all over in subliminal effect, it would still look wrong.
If I remember correctly, most combat moves required to be 5 feet at most from your target - so this video you see is happens when combat bugs out and some player visually slides away a bit.
Check out this video though - it has all the Jedi lightsaber moves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrmmRMjreN4
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.
Yes, I know, and really as the starter world is just an extended tutorial, and the home world is really just getting and learning your advanced class, I understand why experienced MMO players feel a little bored.
There really isn't much of a challenge for a lot of the early content, and there isn't supposed to be, I think a big part of what BioWare is banking on, is bringing in a lot of people who haven't played MMOs or haven't played very many of them, whereas, just about everyone here has likely played 5 or more within the last year or two.
The early game isn't indicative of what to expect at higher levels, but for those who are looking for a more challenging MMO, they won't get it right out of the gate with SWTOR. It just wasn't built like that.
Wasn't it Blizzard that did a study showing that a huge percentage of players who didn't subscribe past the free month never even made it past level 15?
First impressions are important, and I think animation quality can be a major part of that.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
My thoughts exactly.
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
I concur.. to some degree.. but BioWares mainstay isn't going to be the early game - as far as gameplay is concerned, people will stick with the early game because they want to follow the story. People will connect with strategic gameplay when they hit the late teens.
Voiceover... and that's pretty much it. I'd wager 80% or more of the total budget went to the voice acting. Remove that, and it becomes an extremely pedestrian MMO.