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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Five Not So Great Things About SWTOR

MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community ManagerQueens, NYPosts: 5,720Administrator Uncommon

In this week's The List, MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton follows up on our previous "5 Things We Love About SWTOR" by taking a look at some of the not so great things about Star Wars: The Old Republic.

I don’t think BioWare’s games have ever been known for their exhaustive visual character creation options, but I was hoping they would prove me wrong with The Old Republic. Unfortunately, they haven’t. Again, to be fair, from a technical standpoint, there is actually quite a bit on offer. You’ve got four body types, all with numerous heads and hairstyles to choose from, as well as a smattering of visual details you can add or remove from your character. They had to make sure all this stuff animated well for their cutscenes. I can appreciate all that, but the fact of the matter is there are only a short list of species to choose from, they are all completely humanoid, and to make matters worse, the vast majority of them share the same heads, hairstyles, and other options.

Read more of Michael Bitton's The List: Five Not So Great Things About SWTOR.

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Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

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Comments

  • SkillCosbySkillCosby Trenton, MIPosts: 684Member

     

    I agree. Good list.

     

    My personal "dislike" list:

     

    #5. Player Ships - It doesn't feel like my ship; it feels like I'm borrowing it.


    • No body or style selection.

    • Typecasted - everyone of the same class has the same ship

    • I can't use any of the furniture on the ship (Immersion).

    • I can't even decorate or move things around on my own ship.

     


    #4. Questing - It's too easy.

    • I am guided the entire time. If I have to take the shuttle to complete a certain quest, the quest indicator will tell me which path, shuttle, and zone to take. It paints the way from A to B. There is little to no thought required.

    • The side-quests are too obvious. They simply go along and have similar objectives to the main quest line.

    • The "hidden" quests aren't very hidden. If it has a the ability to provide a quest, it's either glowing or has a beacon of light above it.

    #3. Space Combat - It's too 7th grade.

    • I know that space isn't the key point in the game. However, their choice to use such a system throws up a red flag. With such simplistic and linear comprehension, what are their plans for end-game?

    #2. Character Creation

    • The customization options are so over-the-top that it really makes any realistic choice that much more narrow. It's something I would expect from a single-player console game.

    #1. The PvP System

    • Warzones and their gear incentives to play them. I've been there and done that via WoW.

    • Hutt-Ball is probably the most anti-immersion PvP out there. I still cannot believe they threw this in.

    • World PvP is not World PvP. It's merely a section of land that one may fight. It's basically a Warzone without a pre-made team or loading screen.

     


    Ultimately, this game is worth buying for the story. It really is. However, the rentention of SWTOR is absolutely terrible. I predict a semi-large exodus after the first 4 months.

  • ZarynterkZarynterk Phoenix, AZPosts: 398Member

    Space combat for me is huge as well... This decision for Star Fox the Old Republic reeks of laziness on Bioware's part; its almost as if space combat was added as an after thought. At least with SWG they waited and released a decent follow-up with JTL; which in my opinion was outstanding.

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  • LashleyLashley NorthumberlandPosts: 587Member

    Agree 100 percent, a good and fair list.

  • dougmysticeydougmysticey Pflugerville, TXPosts: 1,176Member

    As much as I have loved and enjoyed playing the beta I think you hit the nail on the head here and hope to see those things improve post launch.

    Still, awesome game overall but certainly not flawless.

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  • starstar Seattle, WAPosts: 1,101Member
    Great list, I wholeheartedly agree with all 5, especially four (where the he'll are my Trogruta???). I do have one more to add though: world design. From what I saw during the past two beta weekends, the worlds are ridiculously limited and feel really dead. There's no life to the zones, apart from groups of mobs just standing around waiting to be mowed down. Hopefully this changes past Coursant, but I'm not holding my breath :(

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  • starstar Seattle, WAPosts: 1,101Member
    Er, number two***, and the linearity of the zones is disappointing as well.

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  • xenomxenom grazPosts: 101Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zarynterk

    Space combat for me is huge as well... This decision for Star Fox the Old Republic reeks of laziness on Bioware's part; its almost as if space combat was added as an after thought. At least with SWG they waited and released a decent follow-up with JTL; which in my opinion was outstanding.




     

    yep JTL was awesome but after that they basically left it aside for the years to come and noone was there with you in space soon.

     

    we can only hope that BW starts weak on space combat and goes strong over time - better then the other way around at least. at least they hinted a few plans with it with guild capital ships and what not. all we can do is wait and see.

  • AkaisAkais Memphis, TNPosts: 274Member Common

    I don't necessarily agree with side quests being on the list. I may be biased as I enjoy them though.                                        

    They present some interesting stories and moral dilemmas.

    But I do feel the rest of this list is spot on.

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,720Administrator Uncommon

    Originally posted by xenom



    Originally posted by Zarynterk



    Space combat for me is huge as well... This decision for Star Fox the Old Republic reeks of laziness on Bioware's part; its almost as if space combat was added as an after thought. At least with SWG they waited and released a decent follow-up with JTL; which in my opinion was outstanding.










     

    yep JTL was awesome but after that they basically left it aside for the years to come and noone was there with you in space soon.

     

    we can only hope that BW starts weak on space combat and goes strong over time - better then the other way around at least. at least they hinted a few plans with it with guild capital ships and what not. all we can do is wait and see.




     

    At least, unlike the past, they appear to be quite open with regards to where they go with space combat from here. It sounds like what they do will depend heavily on what player feedback is like post-launch. If you want more from space combat, be sure to make your voice heard to BioWare! :)

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    There are three things I feel must be added.

    First, for the topic side quests. Daniel Erickson emphasized in interviews MANY TIMES, players of various classes would experience NOT A SINGLE SAME QUEST. He was *very* adamant in this. And now? If you play Jedi Knight and then Consular, 2/3rd of the startet planet quests are the same. Then ALL chars of the Republic come to Coruscant and make 80% of the same quests. All that makes replayability a scam, and that needs to be said. Daniel Erickson lied.

    Second, why is there no point for the sterile world? This was discussed by many, many players, so it is not a sideline issue. The lack of small things, birds in the sky, butterflies, rabbits in a meadow, *something* like that. I never seen so lifeless and bland worlds, and as in forests it is in cities. When I was on Tython, it was supposed to be rich forest world. But on no place I had this warm, scenic feeling like I have for example in LOTRO, which also is a low polygon game. In fact for me, the sterile worlds and bland visual are BY FAR the most negative issue I feel in actual gameplay, compared to which things like UI or playable races are relatively unimportant. I really wonder why this glaring and clear issue wasn't mentioned, and it feels a bit like favoritism to bring instead a list of 5 harmless and unimportant issues, when SWTOR has some much heavier issues.

    Finally, the strong isolation the story heavy atmosphere creates. In our days of "gogogo" people rush through games. And heck, even *I* felt at some times like "oh noez, not ANOTHER long winded conversation!" and I found myself clicking away sidequest Voice Overs when the speaker was alien and so I could read subtitles, which I could scan through much faster than the slow winded speeches. And how can that POSSIBLY compute with our rush rush-kids? How can anyone suppose that others actually wait for you? Will people not be even more locked in a totally autonomous solo-play-reality? That, plus the lack of chat bubbles, it's virtually zero chance anyone will EVER chat with you in the game!

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,720Administrator Uncommon

    Originally posted by Elikal

    There are two things I feel must be added.

    First, for the topic side quests. Daniel Erickson emphasized in interviews MANY TIMES, players of various classes would experience NOT A SINGLE SAME QUEST. He was *very* adamant in this. And now? If you play Jedi Knight and then Consular, 2/3rd of the startet planet quests are the same. Then ALL chars of the Republic come to Coruscant and make 80% of the same quests. All that makes replayability a scam, and that needs to be said. Daniel Erickson lied.


     

    This is incorrect. The claim was that by playing both sides you'd never see repeat content, and I believe with the exception of some Flashpoints, this is true. If you play two different Republic classes you'll see mostly the same content (outside of your class quests), but if you play a Jedi Knight and then a Sith Warrior there won't be any real overlap.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • thexratedthexrated OuluPosts: 1,368Member Common

    Originally posted by Elikal

    There are two things I feel must be added.

    First, for the topic side quests. Daniel Erickson emphasized in interviews MANY TIMES, players of various classes would experience NOT A SINGLE SAME QUEST. He was *very* adamant in this. And now? If you play Jedi Knight and then Consular, 2/3rd of the startet planet quests are the same. Then ALL chars of the Republic come to Coruscant and make 80% of the same quests. All that makes replayability a scam, and that needs to be said. Daniel Erickson lied.

    I am pretty sure he said factions not classes, I think he also said that each class has unique story.

    Second, why is there no point for the sterile world? This was discussed by many, many players, so it is not a sideline issue. The lack of small things, birds in the sky, butterflies, rabbits in a meadow, *something* like that. I never seen so lifeless and bland worlds, and as in forests it is in cities. When I was on Tython, it was supposed to be rich forest world. But on no place I had this warm, scenic feeling like I have for example in LOTRO, which also is a low polygon game. In fact for me, the sterile worlds and bland visual are BY FAR the most negative issue I feel in actual gameplay, compared to which things like UI or playable races are relatively unimportant. I really wonder why this glaring and clear issue wasn't mentioned, and it feels a bit like favoritism to bring instead a list of 5 harmless and unimportant issues, when SWTOR has some much heavier issues.

    It is pretty much like it is in other Bioware games. Yep, the world does not feel as alive as in some other games, like Bethesda etc. Suppose, some people take more of an issue with it. It would be nice to see more NPCs going about their daily business, but I can live without it as well.

     

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MikeB



    Originally posted by Elikal



    There are two things I feel must be added.

    First, for the topic side quests. Daniel Erickson emphasized in interviews MANY TIMES, players of various classes would experience NOT A SINGLE SAME QUEST. He was *very* adamant in this. And now? If you play Jedi Knight and then Consular, 2/3rd of the startet planet quests are the same. Then ALL chars of the Republic come to Coruscant and make 80% of the same quests. All that makes replayability a scam, and that needs to be said. Daniel Erickson lied.






     

    This is incorrect. The claim was that by playing both sides you'd never see repeat content, and I believe with the exception of some Flashpoints, this is true. If you play two different Republic classes you'll see mostly the same content (outside of your class quests), but if you play a Jedi Knight and then a Sith Warrior there won't be any real overlap.

    I still think it was a great misleading, and on purpose. What good does story do, if I have to see it all over again? When it was just a mindless "kill 20 rats" it doesn't matter so much. You click it away and grind your way. But with story, who wants the entire Coruscant politics missions AGAIN? Who would really reroll a second class in the same faction in this way? This is a big miscalculation and absurdity. And the OP here even highlighted on big issue. Why should by Smuggler involve himself in the Coruscant politics like the Jedi did before?

    No Sir, they never admitted there was so much same content. Maybe Erickson circumvented it by only saing opposing factions in NAME, but the strong emphasis was still there, and I am sure this was intentional misleading. The way a politician can "lied without actually lieing.", and an insult to players to mislead us thus on top of it all, how they lied about MANY things in this dubious way of hinting and misleading and suggesting things.

    Just having totally different quests for FACTIONS would nothing be to write home about. WOW had that, DAoC had that, Warhammer had that. Many games had that! THAT would not have been any novelity at all. The truth is, after you leave the starter world, 80% of content is the exact same within your faction, and I am sure many expected that to be greatly different! And even the oh so individual class content is often just one small instanced room with a boss fight in the dungeon you walk with everyone else. Yeah, VERY individual.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • ZenjinxZenjinx St. John's, NFPosts: 328Member

    Definately room for improvment in a number of areas of the game.

    My experince with the space combat portion, leads me to believe that the engine can handle alot more than just on rails. Hopefully it will be fully fleshed out in the future.

  • causscauss sonnegaPosts: 668Member

    I agree with this list. Character creation is pretty much a joke. But still, I like the game.

  • jeeshadowjeeshadow Garland, TXPosts: 81Member

    I know it may be a small thing, but I think they really need to improve Ambient Sounds.  the planets are far too quiet!

    Here's hoping Space becomes the first expansion!  :D

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    What? It's not named 'Five Things We Hate About SW:ToR'? Well then.

    Anyway, most of the stuff on the list is a non-issue to me. I think the gear customization would be cool. It's just not that important.

    The side quests could get really annoying. You're going to need more of them as you level up and having side quests (for instance) for a Jedi that involves killing roughly a hundred sentient beings seems really out of place. I don't have an issue with it, but I get Darkside points for telling someone they should talk to their parents when they want to leave the planet...but I don't get any Darkside points for murdering roughly a hundred or so sentient being who wouldn't attack me if I didn't get too close to them.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jeeshadow

    I know it may be a small thing, but I think they really need to improve Ambient Sounds.  the planets are far too quiet!

    Here's hoping Space becomes the first expansion!  :D

    A good observation! I had not consciously noted that. But it sure adds to the lifeless feeling, yes.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member

    Things I hate about SW:TOR, or rather, reasons I won't buy it:

     

    1. Races - The selection is extremely bland. Mostly copy/paste of the human model. And no racial skills either (aside from special dance and other RP animations) . I find that to be unacceptable.

    2. No add-ons or macros - I'm an add-on addict. I love being able to customize things to my liking. Another deal breaker.

    3. No dungeon finder - Actually I could live without this, because I'm primarily a PvP player. But sometimes I want to run a dungeon after a long day at work... the last thing I want to do is spam LFG! LFG! LFG!  This is especially true late a night. 3 AM dungeon runs are easy to find in WoW. In SW:TOR, it will be an issue.

     

  • IllyssiaIllyssia LondonPosts: 1,524Member

    Originally posted by Akais

    I don't necessarily agree with side quests being on the list. I may be biased as I enjoy them though.                                        

    They present some interesting stories and moral dilemmas.

    But I do feel the rest of this list is spot on.

    Side quests in any mmorpg alway feel a bit RNG, e.g. go to x with y and get some xp, or go to x and kill z and get some xp. I'd just accept that for players side stuff makes the long haul of a level progression in an mmorpg easier than just going out and grinding.

  • BergirBergir Toronto, ONPosts: 299Member

    Originally posted by precious328

     

    I agree. Good list.

     

    My personal "dislike" list:

     

    #5. Player Ships - It doesn't feel like my ship; it feels like I'm borrowing it.




    • No body or style selection.



    • Typecasted - everyone of the same class has the same ship



    • I can't use any of the furniture on the ship (Immersion).



    • I can't even decorate or move things around on my own ship.





     






    #4. Questing - It's too easy.




    • I am guided the entire time. If I have to take the shuttle to complete a certain quest, the quest indicator will tell me which path, shuttle, and zone to take. It paints the way from A to B. There is little to no thought required.



    • The side-quests are too obvious. They simply go along and have similar objectives to the main quest line.



    • The "hidden" quests aren't very hidden. If it has a the ability to provide a quest, it's either glowing or has a beacon of light above it.





    #3. Space Combat - It's too 7th grade.




    • I know that space isn't the key point in the game. However, their choice to use such a system throws up a red flag. With such simplistic and linear comprehension, what are their plans for end-game?





    #2. Character Creation




    • The customization options are so over-the-top that it really makes any realistic choice that much more narrow. It's something I would expect from a single-player console game.





    #1. The PvP System




    • Warzones and their gear incentives to play them. I've been there and done that via WoW.



    • Hutt-Ball is probably the most anti-immersion PvP out there. I still cannot believe they threw this in.



    • World PvP is not World PvP. It's merely a section of land that one may fight. It's basically a Warzone without a pre-made team or loading screen.





     






    Ultimately, this game is worth buying for the story. It really is. However, the rentention of SWTOR is absolutely terrible. I predict a semi-large exodus after the first 4 months.




     



    As i predicted perfect for my kids, not for me though.

  • SupersoupsSupersoups New Orleans, LAPosts: 1,004Member

    Anyone else here hates it when people quote a damn long post just to add  one line reply to it? ughhh.

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  • CaskioCaskio Abilene, TXPosts: 339Member

    I liked the space combat.

    I also don't agree that JTL was an awesome space experience.  It was annoying and dull at best for me.

    If they ever do an expanded experience it should be like the Xwing/TIE series.  Those that have played both those games and JTL should know the difference.

    "If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio

    Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon
    I agree that the first expansion should be x wing/tie fighter space combat.

    Good list...I agree. I think the solo combat game needs more challenge and the zones that are walled in need to be redesigned.

    Overall it appears they have the basis for a solid mmo. Hopefully space will become a bigger part of the game in the future.
  • 77lolmac7777lolmac77 Herp Derp, PAPosts: 496Member
    because all MMO's release with every feature implemented promised at launch...

    Really though this game isnt that bad. Maybe not that groundbreaking but neither was Rift and that doesnt get nearly as much criticism as TOR. EA sunk way too much money in this game to just let it fail I guarantee you a lot of content is going to come out within 1-2 months after launch. And if not well theres always Archage,GW2,Titan,InsertUpcomingMMOHere coming out
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