That's not abstract mode. Random sequences of effects have very different feeling than cinematic sequences; plus, of course, cinematic cuts and angles.
The difference will be akin (although, obviously, a metaphor can go only as far) to the difference between a fight in an action movie and similar fight in real life caught on camera by a passer-by. Beautiful cuts and closeups of a structured and easy-to-follow fight where actors follow the internal (staged) logic of a single script against the chaotic frantic activity, mish-mash of half-a-dosen incompatible different scripts each actor trying and failing to follow through.
I've edited the message above to add a bit about Red Barrels with explosives, but it's likely people haven't noticed, so I have to post it here. The infamous red barrel... That red barrel simply rubs me the wrong way.
Anyway, you are basically saying the same thing: in game scenery, in game skills and animations, etc.
But then you go "abstract mode" by saying stuff like "the behavior of actors won't be the same at all" / "the gameplay will have very different feeling" by having not the same "action/proper reaction/meaningful activity on the part of all the actors".
I think there might have been some minor tampering with positioning and stuff, but most of it seems very similar to actual gameplay. The big difference with the actual game would just be due to the cutting and editing of scenes and cinematic camera angles. So it is a bit far fetched to say the gameplay will feel very different.
What he's saying is that all of this isn't played in the actual SWToR engine.
They've loaded up all of SWToR's art assets and animations in an engine that does rendering only. Then they scripted completely new behaviors that are unrelated to those existing the in the real SWToR engine and then let it play like a movie.
This can't be gameplay because it isn't in the game. It's just using the same art assets in a rendering engine (and not a game engine).
It looks very similar to gameplay because it uses exactly the same art assets and animations. So all visual aspects, except for the UI, are 100% the same.
But it's not gameplay because we're not watching a game. We're watching an animated movie.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Originally posted by gestalt11 So a jedi just sits there for like 5 second with a laser tagetter pointed right at his forhead and just lets it hit him?
I mean I can't see the future even and I woulda moved ...
You've never been in a PvP mode vs players who just sit there and take it or been on PvE dungeon runs with people standing right in the AoE fire while you repeatedly tell them to M O V E?
I think it's just something that's going to be happening in the game a lot anyways so might as well put it in there.
If you're strictly referring to the PvE aspect of a quest, you (or I) don't know the context that part of the video was done in. It could be the quest you do is exactly like that (I doubt it) or it could be the actual time to do all of that is one second, but they dragged it out for "dramatic video" effect.
for those interested, here is an explanation of what they do to make the videos:
Can you explain how you get the footage in terms of capturing equipment? Maybe some techniques about how you actually record it?
BA: Most of the time we end up capturing with Fraps. It works really well, and we spec'd our machines to what the people that developed Fraps actually suggested, and then just beefed them up. We wanted to make sure we can film the game running the best it can possibly run. We use the in-game tools that are actually the same tools the developers use to make the game, so nothing special. We learn the tools, and we talk to the developers when we can't figure it out. We make sure we can film it the way we want to film it without giving them more work to do by developing tools for us specifically.
RK: Nothing that happens in our videos can't be done in the game engine, and we try to represent the gamer's experience as best we can. We have a very exacting eye when it comes to that; trying to make sure that every ability comes off looking exactly as the player's going to see it, but from a cinematic angle.
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
You're missing the point dude. You don't have to be a Boba Fett clone! You can colour your mandalorian armor blue!
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
Because this isn't, and has never been, SWG2.
It's always been about recreating the SW movies experience: the han solo fantasy, the boba fett fantasy, the luke skywalker fantasy etc.
It's never been about creating your own story. That's what Bioware does, they create the story because they're so much better at it then 99% of us.
This stuff has been known for months, if not years....
Can we please stop complaining that sugar is sweet and that SWToR isn't SWG2?
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
Look at every other major game out. Each class has armor that it will eventually lead up to. I highly doubt that those in the video are the only ones you can get, and I'm sure there are ones better than those.
Do you understand the complexity behind letting you design your own race for the game? Do you understand how thats not "Star Wars" at all? If you want to play a game that allows you to make up your own race then dont even think of looking at a game whos lore was written 30 or 40 years ago. And its not the WoW route, its a smart route. I don't think that any game should let you create and play your own race because that would require so many more man hours making new models for each armor piece for each possible combination.
I think your just looking for things to complain about, and I'm not even a SWTOR fan boy.
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
Because this isn't, and has never been, SWG2.
I didn't mention SWG, nor did I say that is what I am looking for. I never played SWG.
It's always been about recreating the han solo fantasy, the boba fett fantasy, the luke skywalker fantasy etc.
Who said this? Apart from you? Links?
It's never been about creating your own story. That's what Bioware does, they create the story because they're so much better at it then 99% of us.
I never asked for it to be sandbox. My point was never about that. I was talking about character creation and the clone effect we see.
Can we please stop complaining that SWToR isn't SWG2?
Again, I didn't ask for that.
Can you please stop projecting what you want me to be saying on to me and dicuss what I actually AM saying?
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
Do you understand the complexity behind letting you design your own race for the game?
I have have designed at least four alien races in CoH for myself in CoH.
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
Do you understand the complexity behind letting you design your own race for the game?
I have have designed at least four alien races in CoH for myself in CoH.
That game was launched in 2004.
you could also make your own race in star trek online with unique look and attributes
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
Because this isn't, and has never been, SWG2.
I didn't mention SWG, nor did I say that is what I am looking for. I never played SWG.
You're asking for something that just isn't in the direction SWToR is going, just like all those wishing for SWG2.
It's always been about recreating the SW movies experience: the han solo fantasy, the boba fett fantasy, the luke skywalker fantasy etc.
Who said this? Apart from you? Links?
Open any of the developer blogs about creating the classes.
It's never been about creating your own story. That's what Bioware does, they create the story because they're so much better at it then 99% of us.
I never asked for it to be sandbox. My point was never about that. I was talking about character creation and the clone effect we see.
Again, just like all those beggin for SWG2, you're asking for something that's in a totally different design direction.
Can we please stop complaining that SWToR isn't SWG2?
Again, I didn't ask for that.
Can you please stop projecting what you want me to be saying on to me and dicuss what I actually AM saying?
What you actually are saying is that you want SWToR to be something it clearly is not. Those developer blogs have been up for ages and are about the easiest information to find. If you actually read them (and not just the class ones, but all the story related ones) you'll notice that it's all about recreating the movie experience. It's never been about a more sandboxy create your own adventure game.
*Waves hand*
This is not the game you're looking for.
You can go about your business.
Move along.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Do you understand the complexity behind letting you design your own race for the game?
do you? because it''s not the most difficult MMO featureand has been done in several (and fully themepark) MMOs with much smaller budgets and development teams than SWTOR.
now, personally, i don't think creating one's own race is an important part of the star wars universe. so it's not really a feature i need a star wars game to have.
i would have liked for SWTOR to feature some of the iconic Star Wars races instead of making up "random humanoids with horns". i mean really, i can list off 20-30 star wars "iconic" races and i'm sorry but "Rattattaki" or whatever are NOT on that list. f***ing gungans are more iconic
Also, the decision to limit races to only certain classes seems completely artbitrary and unecessary - it has nothing to do with either lore or gameplay. I mean, they haven't even bothered to give races different voices, so i'm baffled by the reasoning to impose strict limitations.
So yeah i think you guys went a bit off the handle on the poor guy who had a rather valid concern about the lack of character differentiation.
I'm not sure how the hell you someone translated "i wish characters wouldn't all be boba fett clones" into "i want SWG2".
Also, can someone tell me what "iconic star wars movie character" a Pureblood Imperial Agent is meant to represent? I don't even need an official quote, just an opinion. I need some help understand how having a different race playing the class would screw up my perception of this "iconic character"
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
Do you understand the complexity behind letting you design your own race for the game?
I have have designed at least four alien races in CoH for myself in CoH.
That game was launched in 2004.
Great example where 80-90% of the pve environments are cloned.... It's a simply matter of trade off, I'll take interesting content and game mechanics over rubust character creation any day of the week.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
Do you understand the complexity behind letting you design your own race for the game?
I have have designed at least four alien races in CoH for myself in CoH.
That game was launched in 2004.
Great example where 80-90% of the pve environments are cloned.... It's a simply matter of trade off, I'll take interesting content and game mechanics over rubust character creation any day of the week.
This 'trade off' has been invented by you in order to rationalise and justify tepid, derivative, and unimaginative front end game design IMO.
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
You're asking for something that just isn't in the direction SWToR is going, just like all those wishing for SWG2.
I am not asking for anything....
I am giving an opinion for discussion of the direction they have chosen to take based on the material they have chosen to show us, as well as giving alternatives a examples of the road that they COULD have taken.
Open any of the developer blogs about creating the classes.
I am glad you linked those... they make truly sad reading for me. It all sounds so cloned and limited... all the player characters are intended to be just shallow copies of famous ones from the lore? horrible ><
But your right, it is what they are aiming for I guess. It is a shame that's what they are aiming for IMO, but there is no denying that is indeed their aim.
Again, just like all those beggin for SWG2, you're asking for something that's in a totally different design direction.
No, again, I am not asking for anything. I am making an observation on a facet of the game design that the devs have chosen to show off and stating that I find it unimaginative and limited, and wholly dissapointing in a modern MMO (especially one with this budget).
I am stating that they, again IMO, chose the copy the wrong MMORPG model in going with WoW and other games could have served them better to copy.
What your doing is falsely assuming I am asking for SWG because others have. You have then tried to apply the same responses to me as you have to them, which has led you down the wrong path. The truth is that I don't need this to be a sandbox game to be a good game. Some of my favourite MMORPGs are themeparks. Me discussing how BW's character creation/ visual development could have been more varied and robust in no way tranlates into me asking for SWG 2 or more sandbox gameplay.
But oh well, no biggie. It's just talking about games.
Do you understand the complexity behind letting you design your own race for the game?
do you? because it''s not the most difficult MMO featureand has been done in several (and fully themepark) MMOs with much smaller budgets and development teams than SWTOR.
now, personally, i don't think creating one's own race is an important part of the star wars universe. so it's not really a feature i need a star wars game to have.
i would have liked for SWTOR to feature some of the iconic Star Wars races instead of making up "random humanoids with horns". i mean really, i can list off 20-30 star wars "iconic" races and i'm sorry but "Rattattaki" or whatever are NOT on that list. f***ing gungans are more iconic
Also, the decision to limit races to only certain classes seems completely artbitrary and unecessary - it has nothing to do with either lore or gameplay. I mean, they haven't even bothered to give races different voices, so i'm baffled by the reasoning to impose strict limitations.
So yeah i think you guys went a bit off the handle on the poor guy who had a rather valid concern about the lack of character differentiation.
I'm not sure how the hell you someone translated "i wish characters wouldn't all be boba fett clones" into "i want SWG2".
Also, can someone tell me what "iconic star wars movie character" a Pureblood Imperial Agent is meant to represent? I don't even need an official quote, just an opinion. I need some help understand how having a different race playing the class would screw up my perception of this "iconic character"
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
Do you understand the complexity behind letting you design your own race for the game?
I have have designed at least four alien races in CoH for myself in CoH.
That game was launched in 2004.
Great example where 80-90% of the pve environments are cloned.... It's a simply matter of trade off, I'll take interesting content and game mechanics over rubust character creation any day of the week.
I don't think that this trade off is necessarily so. I'm not sure how having a strong character creator precludes interesting content and game mechanics.
I don't think that this trade off is necessarily so. I'm not sure how having a strong character creator precludes interesting content and game mechanics.
There's just this little thing called time.....
If you're spending 6 months creating a character creator then you're not spending those 6 months creating interesting content and game mechanics.
If you take two games with equal developers (both in number and talent) and equal development time then the game with the more advanced character creator will have less interesting content and game mechanics (either in quantity or quality), all other things being equal.
That's simple economics, everything has an opportunity cost (by doing thing A you're giving up also doing thing .
Developers need to look at each feature and see if the opportunity cost of that feature, given the focus of their game, outweighs the benefit that feature will bring.
Seeing SWToR's focus I'm very sure that the opportunity cost of creating a very advanced character creator was higher then the benefit it would have brought.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I don't think that this trade off is necessarily so. I'm not sure how having a strong character creator precludes interesting content and game mechanics.
There's just this little thing called time.....
If you're spending 6 months creating a character creator then you're not spending those 6 months creating interesting content and game mechanics.
If you take two games with equal developers (both in number and talent) and equal development time then the game with the more advanced character creator will have less interesting content and game mechanics (either in quantity or quality), all other things being equal.
That's simple economics, everything has an opportunity cost (by doing thing A you're giving up also doing thing .
Developers need to look at each feature and see if the opportunity cost of that feature, given the focus of their game, outweighs the benefit that feature will bring.
Seeing SWToR's focus I'm very sure that the opportunity cost of creating a very advanced character creator was higher then the benefit it would have brought.
Exactly .. Well said Gobla that's exactly what I was saying in that post, just not as eloquently.
A good example is GW2 as they didn't have to craete their character creation system, they are simply tweaking (read: removing certain options of) Aions. I'm sure if Bioware had access such as that CC would be better but they don't.
@ Vesavius I think I got that name right my apologies if I didn't. My experince in COH was exactly that, as well as Co and STO. Far to much recycling in backdrops for my taste. I have no clue if that changed after the devs split (Paragon formation, Cryptic leaving) as the game has been going for a long time now, but back in 05 or so when I tried COH that's exactly what I saw. Turned me off enough to never look back.
What good is character creation such as that in a game that is so shallow in terms of content? That's the experience I've had in anything Cryptic studios has created.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't think there should be a race creation system but you shouldnt give the guy a hard time because he wants a more robust character creation. Being smuggler han solo looking clone number 38745 doesnt seem right with the kinda cash BW put into this thing and this is the old republic so all the characters you know arent even in existence yet. Having a few more choices is not a bad thing .
Comments
That's not abstract mode.
Random sequences of effects have very different feeling than cinematic sequences; plus, of course, cinematic cuts and angles.
The difference will be akin (although, obviously, a metaphor can go only as far) to the difference between a fight in an action movie and similar fight in real life caught on camera by a passer-by. Beautiful cuts and closeups of a structured and easy-to-follow fight where actors follow the internal (staged) logic of a single script against the chaotic frantic activity, mish-mash of half-a-dosen incompatible different scripts each actor trying and failing to follow through.
I've edited the message above to add a bit about Red Barrels with explosives, but it's likely people haven't noticed, so I have to post it here. The infamous red barrel... That red barrel simply rubs me the wrong way.
What he's saying is that all of this isn't played in the actual SWToR engine.
They've loaded up all of SWToR's art assets and animations in an engine that does rendering only. Then they scripted completely new behaviors that are unrelated to those existing the in the real SWToR engine and then let it play like a movie.
This can't be gameplay because it isn't in the game. It's just using the same art assets in a rendering engine (and not a game engine).
It looks very similar to gameplay because it uses exactly the same art assets and animations. So all visual aspects, except for the UI, are 100% the same.
But it's not gameplay because we're not watching a game. We're watching an animated movie.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
/sigh
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think it's just something that's going to be happening in the game a lot anyways so might as well put it in there.
If you're strictly referring to the PvE aspect of a quest, you (or I) don't know the context that part of the video was done in. It could be the quest you do is exactly like that (I doubt it) or it could be the actual time to do all of that is one second, but they dragged it out for "dramatic video" effect.
"TO MICHAEL!"
for those interested, here is an explanation of what they do to make the videos:
Can you explain how you get the footage in terms of capturing equipment? Maybe some techniques about how you actually record it?
BA: Most of the time we end up capturing with Fraps. It works really well, and we spec'd our machines to what the people that developed Fraps actually suggested, and then just beefed them up. We wanted to make sure we can film the game running the best it can possibly run. We use the in-game tools that are actually the same tools the developers use to make the game, so nothing special. We learn the tools, and we talk to the developers when we can't figure it out. We make sure we can film it the way we want to film it without giving them more work to do by developing tools for us specifically.
RK: Nothing that happens in our videos can't be done in the game engine, and we try to represent the gamer's experience as best we can. We have a very exacting eye when it comes to that; trying to make sure that every ability comes off looking exactly as the player's going to see it, but from a cinematic angle.
http://darthhater.com/2011/09/01/pax-prime-bioware-creative-services-interview/
and back on topic, i didn't realize they showed the snipers mega shield that georg had mentioned awhile back
http://media.dhcdn.com/2011/11/15415/imppdiss10.jpg
I liked the zooming in and sniping from the top level. made me miss global agenda. really hoping that's actual gameplay
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
How on earth has a modern game got set visual progressions like this?
I am playing CoH right now and have to say if BW had looked to that game more for inspiration rather then WoW (for the looks/ character development aspect if nothing more) then it might be something that inspires me at least partly.
Why does my BH have to look like a Fett clone?
Why is my smuggler a Solo clone?
Why am I limited to a handful of races when the game could offer a ton (or even let me design my own and write my own lore for it).
The extremely traditional, yes, WoW route thet have chosen is dissapointing. This could have been so much more considering the budget.
You're missing the point dude. You don't have to be a Boba Fett clone! You can colour your mandalorian armor blue!
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Because this isn't, and has never been, SWG2.
It's always been about recreating the SW movies experience: the han solo fantasy, the boba fett fantasy, the luke skywalker fantasy etc.
It's never been about creating your own story. That's what Bioware does, they create the story because they're so much better at it then 99% of us.
This stuff has been known for months, if not years....
Can we please stop complaining that sugar is sweet and that SWToR isn't SWG2?
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Look at every other major game out. Each class has armor that it will eventually lead up to. I highly doubt that those in the video are the only ones you can get, and I'm sure there are ones better than those.
Do you understand the complexity behind letting you design your own race for the game? Do you understand how thats not "Star Wars" at all? If you want to play a game that allows you to make up your own race then dont even think of looking at a game whos lore was written 30 or 40 years ago. And its not the WoW route, its a smart route. I don't think that any game should let you create and play your own race because that would require so many more man hours making new models for each armor piece for each possible combination.
I think your just looking for things to complain about, and I'm not even a SWTOR fan boy.
I have have designed at least four alien races in CoH for myself in CoH.
That game was launched in 2004.
you could also make your own race in star trek online with unique look and attributes
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
do you? because it''s not the most difficult MMO featureand has been done in several (and fully themepark) MMOs with much smaller budgets and development teams than SWTOR.
now, personally, i don't think creating one's own race is an important part of the star wars universe. so it's not really a feature i need a star wars game to have.
i would have liked for SWTOR to feature some of the iconic Star Wars races instead of making up "random humanoids with horns". i mean really, i can list off 20-30 star wars "iconic" races and i'm sorry but "Rattattaki" or whatever are NOT on that list. f***ing gungans are more iconic
Also, the decision to limit races to only certain classes seems completely artbitrary and unecessary - it has nothing to do with either lore or gameplay. I mean, they haven't even bothered to give races different voices, so i'm baffled by the reasoning to impose strict limitations.
So yeah i think you guys went a bit off the handle on the poor guy who had a rather valid concern about the lack of character differentiation.
I'm not sure how the hell you someone translated "i wish characters wouldn't all be boba fett clones" into "i want SWG2".
Also, can someone tell me what "iconic star wars movie character" a Pureblood Imperial Agent is meant to represent? I don't even need an official quote, just an opinion. I need some help understand how having a different race playing the class would screw up my perception of this "iconic character"
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
My finals are Dec 12th and 13th! I WIN!!!!
On a side note I am going to be one EVIL healer!!! >=D (Imperial Agent > Operative > Medic)
Remember Old School Ultima Online
Great example where 80-90% of the pve environments are cloned.... It's a simply matter of trade off, I'll take interesting content and game mechanics over rubust character creation any day of the week.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This 'trade off' has been invented by you in order to rationalise and justify tepid, derivative, and unimaginative front end game design IMO.
Thanks Arie for getting where I was coming from.
I don't think that this trade off is necessarily so. I'm not sure how having a strong character creator precludes interesting content and game mechanics.
There's just this little thing called time.....
If you're spending 6 months creating a character creator then you're not spending those 6 months creating interesting content and game mechanics.
If you take two games with equal developers (both in number and talent) and equal development time then the game with the more advanced character creator will have less interesting content and game mechanics (either in quantity or quality), all other things being equal.
That's simple economics, everything has an opportunity cost (by doing thing A you're giving up also doing thing
.
Developers need to look at each feature and see if the opportunity cost of that feature, given the focus of their game, outweighs the benefit that feature will bring.
Seeing SWToR's focus I'm very sure that the opportunity cost of creating a very advanced character creator was higher then the benefit it would have brought.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Exactly .. Well said Gobla that's exactly what I was saying in that post, just not as eloquently.
A good example is GW2 as they didn't have to craete their character creation system, they are simply tweaking (read: removing certain options of) Aions. I'm sure if Bioware had access such as that CC would be better but they don't.
@ Vesavius I think I got that name right my apologies if I didn't. My experince in COH was exactly that, as well as Co and STO. Far to much recycling in backdrops for my taste. I have no clue if that changed after the devs split (Paragon formation, Cryptic leaving) as the game has been going for a long time now, but back in 05 or so when I tried COH that's exactly what I saw. Turned me off enough to never look back.
What good is character creation such as that in a game that is so shallow in terms of content? That's the experience I've had in anything Cryptic studios has created.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson