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Psychology: why equal women don't ask men out on dates

ChieftanChieftan Independence, MOPosts: 1,417Member

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/201104/why-dont-women-ask-men-out-first-dates/comments

 Lots of psych mumbo jumbo but this reply I thought was hilarious:

I'm a woman and I ask men out on dates simply because I want what I want when I want it and I dislike playing games. I have noticed 2 results.

1) If I have asked a man out and the date goes well, I find the men often put less effort into the relationship as in making me do more of the asking for future dates, spending as little money as possible and not hesitating to request I help them out with a bevy of their personal challenges such as computer issues, fixing their gadgets and conflicts with various billing agencies. In essence, these men are very interested in what I can do for them and not much on what they can do for me.

Well isn't that interesting.  Because I don't know about anybody else here but it sounds an awful lot she's describing every woman I've ever dated.  lol

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Comments

  • generals3generals3 MehPosts: 3,307Member

    Originally posted by Chieftan

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/201104/why-dont-women-ask-men-out-first-dates/comments

     Lots of psych mumbo jumbo but this reply I thought was hilarious:

    I'm a woman and I ask men out on dates simply because I want what I want when I want it and I dislike playing games. I have noticed 2 results.

    1) If I have asked a man out and the date goes well, I find the men often put less effort into the relationship as in making me do more of the asking for future dates, spending as little money as possible and not hesitating to request I help them out with a bevy of their personal challenges such as computer issues, fixing their gadgets and conflicts with various billing agencies. In essence, these men are very interested in what I can do for them and not much on what they can do for me.

    Well isn't that interesting.  Because I don't know about anybody else here but it sounds an awful lot she's describing every woman I've ever dated.  lol

    I must admit the irony is strong in this one, very strong.

    Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
    Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.

  • bezadobezado Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 1,148Member

    In general women have to much high expectations because of television, movies, and media. Since they react to that stuff differently then men do they tend to raise their own expectations really to high.

    image

    image
  • Annah_HAnnah_H Lancaster, PAPosts: 57Member

    personally, i think it stems from centuries of a patriarchal society. Things like the man proposing to the woman, the man courting the woman, the man working, etc etc has been established, for the most part, since the dawn of civilization.

    It's hard to break old habits.

    I am even guilty of this. I never have asked a guy out; I always wait for them to ask. My thinking is if they are serious about asking me out then they would do it. As I mentioned, I am just as guilty because when I am serious about someone I don't ask them....it has to do with the patriarchal conundrum.

    And i'll be honest too.....yeah, it's nice not having to pay out anymore. I paid for dates for a LONG time. Now it's my turn to just sit back and enjoy lol.

    Formally known as Enigma

  • outfctrloutfctrl Jacksonville, FLPosts: 3,619Member

    I met this woman one time in a Disco club.  I walked up to her and said" Buy me a drink?"  She looked at me funny, then did.

    4 years later, we got married.

    LOL

    We are divorced now...   ;-)

    image

  • ChieftanChieftan Independence, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    Originally posted by Annah_H

    personally, i think it stems from centuries of a patriarchal society. Things like the man proposing to the woman, the man courting the woman, the man working, etc etc has been established, for the most part, since the dawn of civilization.

    It's hard to break old habits.

    I am even guilty of this. I never have asked a guy out; I always wait for them to ask. My thinking is if they are serious about asking me out then they would do it. As I mentioned, I am just as guilty because when I am serious about someone I don't ask them....it has to do with the patriarchal conundrum.

    And i'll be honest too.....yeah, it's nice not having to pay out anymore. I paid for dates for a LONG time. Now it's my turn to just sit back and enjoy lol.

    The whole patriarchal thing...that's just psych voodoo talk for cherrypicking.  Women have no problem competing with men for jobs and management positions these days.

    I just thought it was funny because women love dating when the man has to do all the work but it becomes a whole other thing when the shoe's on the other foot.

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Chieftan

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/201104/why-dont-women-ask-men-out-first-dates/comments

     Lots of psych mumbo jumbo but this reply I thought was hilarious:

    I'm a woman and I ask men out on dates simply because I want what I want when I want it and I dislike playing games. I have noticed 2 results.

    1) If I have asked a man out and the date goes well, I find the men often put less effort into the relationship as in making me do more of the asking for future dates, spending as little money as possible and not hesitating to request I help them out with a bevy of their personal challenges such as computer issues, fixing their gadgets and conflicts with various billing agencies. In essence, these men are very interested in what I can do for them and not much on what they can do for me.

    Well isn't that interesting.  Because I don't know about anybody else here but it sounds an awful lot she's describing every woman I've ever dated.  lol

    This is one of the reasons i only date " Borg "

    image

  • ChieftanChieftan Independence, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    Originally posted by Annah_H

    Originally posted by Chieftan


     

    The whole patriarchal thing...that's just psych voodoo talk for cherrypicking. 

    If you think our history was not patriarchal then i would like to smoke what you're smoking

    {mod edit} That portion of history has no bearing on the present day.  I work with women right now who make more money than I do.  Women are scattered all over the upper management positions at the company I work for.  What was going on in 1608 or 1950 obviously doesn't apply to today and that's not the world you were born into. 

    What I said was women have picked out the stuff they like and left something that's too stressful for them on the table for men.

     

  • Annah_HAnnah_H Lancaster, PAPosts: 57Member

    Originally posted by Chieftan

     

    {mod edit} That portion of history has no bearing on the present day.  I work with women right now who make more money than I do.  Women are scattered all over the upper management positions at the company I work for.  What was going on in 1608 or 1950 obviously doesn't apply to today and that's not the world you were born into. 

    What I said was women have picked out the stuff they like and left something that's too stressful for them on the table for men.

     

    you are thinking through a narrow tunnel and you are facilitating truth by what you experience.

    I wont go into detail about how many countries treat women like pets. How their rights are non existant. In many countries the men have all the rights. This is present day. Not the past.

    Also there are many places in the unites states where women cant lead others. Various christian places, Muslim temples, etc do not ordain women simply because they are women.

    If a man sleeps with multiple women then he "is the man." If a woman sleeps with multiple men then she "is a slut."  Think I am making this up? Go to any college right now and ask.

    If two men kiss each other it is disgusting. If two women kiss each other, it is hot.

    Be a woman for 24 hours and you will see how wrong you are and see how thick your blinders really are.

    Formally known as Enigma

  • ChieftanChieftan Independence, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    Originally posted by Annah_H

    Originally posted by Chieftan


     

    {mod edit} That portion of history has no bearing on the present day.  I work with women right now who make more money than I do.  Women are scattered all over the upper management positions at the company I work for.  What was going on in 1608 or 1950 obviously doesn't apply to today and that's not the world you were born into. 

    What I said was women have picked out the stuff they like and left something that's too stressful for them on the table for men.

     

    you are thinking through a narrow tunnel and you are facilitating truth by what you experience.

    I wont go into detail about how many countries treat women like pets. How their rights are non existant. In many countries the men have all the rights. This is present day. Not the past.

    Also there are many places in the unites states where women cant lead others. Various christian places, Muslim temples, etc do not ordain women simply because they are women.

    If a man sleeps with multiple women then he "is the man." If a woman sleeps with multiple men then she "is a slut."  Think I am making this up? Go to any college right now and ask.

    If two men kiss each other it is disgusting. If two women kiss each other, it is hot.

    Be a woman for 24 hours and you will see how wrong you are and see how thick your blinders really are.

     

    Well luckily for you what goes on in third world countries is none of your problem.  And trust me, guys despise any guy who gets alot of tail.  That is definitely not a guy you want to hang around.

    I just laugh when women have no problem with say, running for president...but picking up a tab??  Oh no we can't have that!

  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member

    Patriarchal society is quite strong in the US, and also in the other parts of the world. But women do no less than men in promoting the same patriarchal tradition.

     

    It's not just men who think a woman who sleeps with many men is "a slut". Women, if anything, are even more vicious in that respect.

  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member

    Originally posted by Chieftan

    Well luckily for you what goes on in third world countries is none of your problem.  And trust me, guys despise any guy who gets alot of tail.  That is definitely not a guy you want to hang around.

    I just laugh when women have no problem with say, running for president...but picking up a tab??  Oh no we can't have that!

    They do? Nobody told me! Oh, well. I don't want any guy who would despise me for being an adherent of free love to hang around me anyway. Nothing wrong with having plenty of sexual relationships for both sexes, if you ask me.

     

    But I agree, not wanting to ask the other sex out is ridiculous (as is not picking up a tab). Unfortunately, it is also deeply ingrained. It has to be fought, and it will be fought for generations more before feminism will emerge victorious.

  • SoulSurferSoulSurfer Denver, COPosts: 1,248Member

    It's a power control thing. ><

     

  • devilisciousdeviliscious dallas, TXPosts: 6,906Member

    Women do not need to ask men out on dates because we talk with our eyes.

  • devilisciousdeviliscious dallas, TXPosts: 6,906Member

    Originally posted by Annah_H

    personally, i think it stems from centuries of a patriarchal society. Things like the man proposing to the woman, the man courting the woman, the man working, etc etc has been established, for the most part, since the dawn of civilization.

    It's hard to break old habits.

    I am even guilty of this. I never have asked a guy out; I always wait for them to ask. My thinking is if they are serious about asking me out then they would do it. As I mentioned, I am just as guilty because when I am serious about someone I don't ask them....it has to do with the patriarchal conundrum.

    And i'll be honest too.....yeah, it's nice not having to pay out anymore. I paid for dates for a LONG time. Now it's my turn to just sit back and enjoy lol.

    I do not think that is necessarily the case. Hopi are maternal,  In Hopi Tradition, the  women owned all property, handled business and economy, the man took on the womans clan name and becamne a part of the womans clan when joined and men still did the asking, but the woman had to decide if the man was worthy.   Once a man asked a woman, he then had to prove his  worthiness to her.  Hopi are extremely against family infulence in the process, and left it entirely up to the woman to decide. In fact, prior to the joining, no one was allowed to speak to the bride the day before or the day of her joining so that she would have time to think long and hard about the decision she was making. Women were also in charge of home and family, while the men worked the fields. But neither men or women  were considered beneath one another.

     

     

     

     

  • devilisciousdeviliscious dallas, TXPosts: 6,906Member

    Originally posted by Grahor

    Originally posted by Chieftan

    Well luckily for you what goes on in third world countries is none of your problem.  And trust me, guys despise any guy who gets alot of tail.  That is definitely not a guy you want to hang around.

    I just laugh when women have no problem with say, running for president...but picking up a tab??  Oh no we can't have that!

    They do? Nobody told me! Oh, well. I don't want any guy who would despise me for being an adherent of free love to hang around me anyway. Nothing wrong with having plenty of sexual relationships for both sexes, if you ask me.

     

    But I agree, not wanting to ask the other sex out is ridiculous (as is not picking up a tab). Unfortunately, it is also deeply ingrained. It has to be fought, and it will be fought for generations more before feminism will emerge victorious.

    I would never ask a man out, nor have I ever needed to. I have never paid the tab, paid a cover charge,  or have even had to buy my own drink, even when out alone.  Relationships are give and take. While men may do these things, it isn't like women do not do equally nice things for them as well. equal does not  always mean the exact same. For example, we both want our favorite piece of pie.  I like apple, you like cherry. It would not be equal for me to make us both eat apple, no because I would have what I like and you would be forced to  have what I like as well. No to make it equal, I would have a slice of apple, and you would have a slice of cherry., and we would both have a slice of our favorite pie.

    Men and women are different,  equal but different.  Women should celebrate being women, and men should celebrate being men. Women should not conform to men, and men should not conform to women., instead celebrate our differences, and compliment one another rather than try to force one or the other .

    Women can be sexy and feminine and be proud of being sexy and feminine. A  Woman can be a sexy feminine president, and should be able to do so proudly. Just as a man can be a sexy masculine president if he so chooses.

    Freedom for women is not " become a man"  why on earth would we want to do that? Freedom for women means do as we see fit and not care what  a man has to say about it. That is the difference.

     I have almost always made more than the men I have dated, but  rather than  pick up the tab, instead I would do something special in my own way instead.

  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member

    To deviliscious:

     

    That may be your way, but it's not my way. I don't like it, I would not date a woman like you; good thing we both don't have to.

  • RobgmurRobgmur All over, ORPosts: 322Member

    Originally posted by Annah_H

    Originally posted by Chieftan

     

    {mod edit} That portion of history has no bearing on the present day.  I work with women right now who make more money than I do.  Women are scattered all over the upper management positions at the company I work for.  What was going on in 1608 or 1950 obviously doesn't apply to today and that's not the world you were born into. 

    What I said was women have picked out the stuff they like and left something that's too stressful for them on the table for men.

     

    you are thinking through a narrow tunnel and you are facilitating truth by what you experience.

    I wont go into detail about how many countries treat women like pets. How their rights are non existant. In many countries the men have all the rights. This is present day. Not the past.

    Also there are many places in the unites states where women cant lead others. Various christian places, Muslim temples, etc do not ordain women simply because they are women.

    If a man sleeps with multiple women then he "is the man." If a woman sleeps with multiple men then she "is a slut."  Think I am making this up? Go to any college right now and ask.

    If two men kiss each other it is disgusting. If two women kiss each other, it is hot.

    Be a woman for 24 hours and you will see how wrong you are and see how thick your blinders really are.

     Women who are 'sluts' are mens allies in most cases.. this is a scientific fact.. the only people who complain about it are in fact.. other women lol.

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  • generals3generals3 MehPosts: 3,307Member

    Originally posted by Annah_H

    you are thinking through a narrow tunnel and you are facilitating truth by what you experience.

    I wont go into detail about how many countries treat women like pets. How their rights are non existant. In many countries the men have all the rights. This is present day. Not the past.

    But that doesn't really concern us now does it. Heck with certain european countries actually enforcing quota's on female presence in the upper tiers of businesses i would go as far as saying men are starting to be treated as pets. (well ok that's a bit exagerated)

    Also there are many places in the unites states where women cant lead others. Various christian places, Muslim temples, etc do not ordain women simply because they are women.

    Well unless you want to ban religions that's something you'll have to live with. It's a part of said religious cultures. And i'm fairly certain that women have the right to leave said institutions if they don't like how they are treated inside said institutions (it's not as if the local priest is holding a gun on women's head)

    If a man sleeps with multiple women then he "is the man." If a woman sleeps with multiple men then she "is a slut."  Think I am making this up? Go to any college right now and ask.

    That isn't really our fault now is it? Why would a man look down to an other man who puts his *bleep* (not sure what the language rules allow or do not) wherever they can as it doesn't affect them. Most men don't date other men so their practices are irrelevant to them(with the odd exception of the one with moral objections to the practice). However the dating practices of women are very much their business as it affects the choice whether to try something or not with said women.

    I would also like to add it's often women who have lots of fun smacktalking about other women's promiscuity rather than men. And that not every men consider gigolo's to be "cool" or "the man".

    If two men kiss each other it is disgusting. If two women kiss each other, it is hot.

    Well again, how's that your problem? You're free to think the exact opposite. It's actually very natural for a straight man to think like that.

    Be a woman for 24 hours and you will see how wrong you are and see how thick your blinders really are.

     

    Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
    Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.

  • devilisciousdeviliscious dallas, TXPosts: 6,906Member

    Originally posted by Grahor

    To deviliscious:

     

    That may be your way, but it's not my way. I don't like it, I would not date a woman like you; good thing we both don't have to.

    SO you think a woman should be just like a man to be equal? Why would forcing a woman to conform to what men find acceptable be in any way shape or form equality?

    That is just more of " control over women" that men feel they are entitled to.

    In that case, equality  would be more of a man conforming to a woman's world, rather than a woman conforming to a mans.

     No, I never have to buy my own drink, but then again, I also have never asked for someone to buy one for me.

  • RobgmurRobgmur All over, ORPosts: 322Member

    Originally posted by deviliscious

    Originally posted by Grahor

    To deviliscious:

     

    That may be your way, but it's not my way. I don't like it, I would not date a woman like you; good thing we both don't have to.

    SO you think a woman should be just like a man to be equal? Why would forcing a woman to conform to what men find acceptable be in any way shape or form equality?

    That is just more of " control over women" that men feel they are entitled to.

    In that case, equality  would be more of a man conforming to a woman's world, rather than a woman conforming to a mans.

     No, I never have to buy my own drink, but then again, I also have never asked for someone to buy one for me.

     lol.. most just go with no money, because it's expected haha.. Why wouldn't a girl buy a guy a drink? oh wait. what

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  • devilisciousdeviliscious dallas, TXPosts: 6,906Member

    Originally posted by Robgmur

    Originally posted by deviliscious

    Originally posted by Grahor

    To deviliscious:

     

    That may be your way, but it's not my way. I don't like it, I would not date a woman like you; good thing we both don't have to.

    SO you think a woman should be just like a man to be equal? Why would forcing a woman to conform to what men find acceptable be in any way shape or form equality?

    That is just more of " control over women" that men feel they are entitled to.

    In that case, equality  would be more of a man conforming to a woman's world, rather than a woman conforming to a mans.

     No, I never have to buy my own drink, but then again, I also have never asked for someone to buy one for me.

     lol.. most just go with no money, because it's expected haha.. Why wouldn't a girl buy a guy a drink? oh wait. what

    I have never specifically bought a guy a drink, but I have bought rounds for the house. I bring money,  they just never ask me to use it in that manner. I may not pick up the tab on a date or purchase my own drinks, but if I  invite a man over for a home cooked meal, I will spend hundreds on that meal, spend hours, even days cooking that meal from scratch to ensure it is the best meal they ever had.  Like I said, it is all give and take. I was surprised how many people were completely unaware of how to make and use a fire pit. Guranteed to be the best tasting meat you ever have. Choosing the right wood combination and slow cooking guarantees good flavour and the most tender meat.

    http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Woods.htm

    I have won every cook off I have entered, even French and Italian, and that is hard to do as a Texan. I make pasta, sauces, pastries, and bread all from scratch.  So yes a man may buy my drinks and my dinner, but it isn't like I do not return the favor in my own way. :)

     So yea, the creepy guys who think a  girl should pick up the tab, and buy her own drinks.. it is their loss. image

    PS. In college I won speed bar competitions, and was quite well known for writing Bar manuals and have trained many bartenders. When I walk into many clubs, they already know me, and sometimes ask for me to quest bartend, but never allow me to pay for my own drinks or pay a cover. They are always asking me to do my fire tricks. Sometimes it is a pain because there is no place to really go and just " get lost". I used to do fire tricks in a bikini.. that gives you instant " celebrity status" in the bartending field.

  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member

    Originally posted by deviliscious

    Originally posted by Grahor

    That may be your way, but it's not my way. I don't like it, I would not date a woman like you; good thing we both don't have to.

    >SO you think a woman should be just like a man to be equal?

    You don't understand. I don't think that women _should_ be anything. I know that women can't be exactly like men. But I _like_ women who are as much like men as it is possible.

     

    >>Why would forcing a woman to conform to what men find acceptable be in any way shape or form equality?

    See? This is exactly what I was talking about. I say what I _like_ - you consider it as being forced to be what I like. Because man's opinion is _important_, otherwise you would not even imagine that man's like or dislikes forcing you to do anything.

     

    >>That is just more of " control over women" that men feel they are entitled to.

    *shrug* it is you who are talking of conforming. I'm not interested, actually. I would like you to be more like men and don't give two s...ts about what I like or don't like. Or at least clearly understood that my wishes - what I like - is not your command.

     

    >>In that case, equality  would be more of a man conforming to a woman's world, rather than a woman conforming to a mans.

    I'll decide what equality is for me myself, thank you very much. And "equality", for my tastes, means "nobody conforming to anybody, but all equal parties choosing what they like". I would date women whos worldview I like (you are not included) and who like my worldview (again, you are not one of those). You will date whatever men you like. No conforming necessary.

     

     No, I never have to buy my own drink, but then again, I also have never asked for someone to buy one for me.

    But you expect it to be bought. And I will not buy one for you. Therefore, you wouldn't consider me as someone who you are interested in. We are incompatible. I am not interested in dating you, you are not intereted in dating me; we know where we both stand. I don't see that I'm trying to force anything on you, unless "he doesn't like me" is equal "I am forced to change!" for you.

  • devilisciousdeviliscious dallas, TXPosts: 6,906Member

    Originally posted by Grahor

    Originally posted by deviliscious

    Originally posted by Grahor

    That may be your way, but it's not my way. I don't like it, I would not date a woman like you; good thing we both don't have to.

    >SO you think a woman should be just like a man to be equal?

    You don't understand. I don't think that women _should_ be anything. I know that women can't be exactly like men. But I _like_ women who are as much like men as it is possible.

     

    >>Why would forcing a woman to conform to what men find acceptable be in any way shape or form equality?

    See? This is exactly what I was talking about. I say what I _like_ - you consider it as being forced to be what I like. Because man's opinion is _important_, otherwise you would not even imagine that man's like or dislikes forcing you to do anything.

     

    >>That is just more of " control over women" that men feel they are entitled to.

    *shrug* it is you who are talking of conforming. I'm not interested, actually. I would like you to be more like men and don't give two s...ts about what I like or don't like. Or at least clearly understood that my wishes - what I like - is not your command.

     

    >>In that case, equality  would be more of a man conforming to a woman's world, rather than a woman conforming to a mans.

    I'll decide what equality is for me myself, thank you very much. And "equality", for my tastes, means "nobody conforming to anybody, but all equal parties choosing what they like". I would date women whos worldview I like (you are not included) and who like my worldview (again, you are not one of those). You will date whatever men you like. No conforming necessary.

     

     No, I never have to buy my own drink, but then again, I also have never asked for someone to buy one for me.

    But you expect it to be bought. And I will not buy one for you. Therefore, you wouldn't consider me as someone who you are interested in. We are incompatible. I am not interested in dating you, you are not intereted in dating me; we know where we both stand. I don't see that I'm trying to force anything on you, unless "he doesn't like me" is equal "I am forced to change!" for you.

    Of course I expect it to be bought. When Bartenders and doormen will not even allow me to buy my own drinks, why would I want to date a guy who thinks I should because he has "issues" with women being treated well? I don't open my own doors, and yes I know I can drop something on purpose and a man will pick it up for me. Yes, I still appreciate a man who shows up with flowers, and pulls out my chair. I find those courtesies a sign of respect and also a good signal that the man knows how to treat a woman with love and respect. Of course women also do the same, but in their own way. It generally takes less effort for a man to do those things, than it does for a woman to spend hours, days preparing a meal from scratch, and less effort to pull a chair out than it does for a woman to set up a candle light and rose petal sauna in their living room in front of the fire place and give a full body massage. Everything is give and take. If a guy is so hung up on not pulling out a chair or picking up the tab,  it should be a big warning to a woman that he is only going to be more difficult and more indifferent in the treatment of the woman long term, and she would be better off passing on that one.  hat is not worth the timheir own way  It generally takes less effort from a mt a  .f respect./a   aaaa

  • generals3generals3 MehPosts: 3,307Member

    Originally posted by deviliscious

     So yea, the creepy guys who think a  girl should pick up the tab, and buy her own drinks.. it is their loss. image

     

    Why would you say the guy is creepy? Because he doesn't do it the old fashioned way? (which would be quite ironic)

    Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
    Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.

  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member

    Originally posted by deviliscious

    >>Everything is give and take.

    So, what is it exactly that you give? There is nothing I actually want that you can give me.

    >>If a guy is so hung up on not pulling out a chair or picking up the tab,  it should be a big warning to a woman that he is only going to be more difficult and more indifferent in the treatment of the woman long term, and she would be better off passing on that one.  

    And she will be absolutely right that I will not "treat her long-term". I am not interested in women who need to be treated; I am only interested in women who treat themselves.

     

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