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Reason for Concern, EA's Q2 reports

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  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by maplestone

    Originally posted by Sorrow



    EA wants to aquire more developer studios like bioware, and trim the fat by outsourcing the development costs to lower cost overseas coders.

    EA: where games go to die?

    I still despise them for what they did with EnB.

    I find it funny that not only are they involved with SWTOR as they are...but they also signed on as a co-publisher with Funcom for TSW earlier in the year.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by Gruug

    All of this was really highlighted by the recent launch of Battlefield 3.

    Many players were left in the lurch due to the pained method of purchase and then not recieving said purchase. Or, of not being able to even install or run ORIGIN.


    5 million sales and one week later.. it really doesn't matter, does it?
  • tupodawg999tupodawg999 Member UncommonPosts: 724

    Originally posted by Quesa

    EVERY for-profit company is about maximizing profit.  Lets at least be honest with outselves and cut out the schoolyard finger pointing.

     

    I think that's missing the point. The point is what they believe is the best way to mazimize proflt in this industry.

    Once upon a time this market was small and most of the potential customers were fantasy and scifi geeks who wanted to recreate tabletop D&D or their favourite fantasy or scifi novel. The best way for a company to maximize profits back then was to try and give fantasy and scifi geeks the closest fit as possible to what they wanted.

    Now, a bunch of years and a lot of game iterations later, the sharks have realised how much *more* money can be made using games to manipulate psychological traits among the wider population.

    1) Socializers: Create a game where everyone looks the same and then have distinctive looks and outfits in the cash shop.

    2) Achievers: Make the progression fast in the beginning then slow it down so people buy exp boosters.

    3) Killers: Pay2Win PvP.

    (Explorers like variety and complexity so they're not cost-efficient to design for.)

    Korean grinders aren't the way they are by accident. They're the logical end-result of maximizing profit once you widen the audience beyond geeks - and that's where it will head. I think we're in the last throes of large-scale investor money looking to create another AAA WoW and after that it will all gradually trend towards grinder-clones instead of WoW-clones: rapidly produced, rapid player turnover,  mob grinders (called action RPG to try and disguise it), one or two races, everyone looking the same unless you use the cash shop, flashy combat graphics and animations in the foreground with dead worlds and dull environments in the background, shallow with all the money spent on the surface of the game to attract new people and nothing under the surface to keep them except achiever addiction, etc. It's all a perfectly logical way to exploit the more extreme end of the various player types.

    It's not so much the companies changing as the total size of the market changing and the companies now following the part of the new market that will maximize profit. No one will actually like the games though (apart from young kids getting into their first one) because they won't be games in the old sense anymore. They'll be more like slot-machines where people put their quarters into a box with flashing lights.

    The only reason it hasn't happened yet is WoW showing that a subscription model can make more money if it's the 800 lb gorilla - but only if it's the 800lb gorilla. If and when they give up trying to make another WoW all the money will go on pretty on the surface "action" grinders.

    Eventually as development software advances an amateur cottage industry of morrowind modder type mmorpgs will start to appear as a substitute but it will take a while.

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048

    There is a reason why gamers (particularly those in the industry) tend to look at EA in disgust. Its no question they want profit and pretty much step over everyone to make that profit. I seriously hope EA as a company fails and falls into an endless pit. Its disgusting to think a company like them exists and pretty much want to take over the gaming industry for the sole purpose of making mass profits with little concern over quality.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Purutzil

    There is a reason why gamers (particularly those in the industry) tend to look at EA in disgust. Its no question they want profit and pretty much step over everyone to make that profit. I seriously hope EA as a company fails and falls into an endless pit. Its disgusting to think a company like them exists and pretty much want to take over the gaming industry for the sole purpose of making mass profits with little concern over quality.

    if there was no quality there would be no profit, that's the bottomline. Each studio owned by EA tries to offer quality titles, thinking otherwise is illogical. These studios depend on quality to survive, as soon as the quality drops the studio is disolved. Which these studios live with that risk day in and day out, more so than companies not ownd by publishers such as this.

    Crap doesn't sell just look at MOH's last outing, or certain Madden or NBA titles. Profit is made through excellent products and customer trust.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Angier2758Angier2758 Member UncommonPosts: 1,026

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Purutzil

    There is a reason why gamers (particularly those in the industry) tend to look at EA in disgust. Its no question they want profit and pretty much step over everyone to make that profit. I seriously hope EA as a company fails and falls into an endless pit. Its disgusting to think a company like them exists and pretty much want to take over the gaming industry for the sole purpose of making mass profits with little concern over quality.

    if there was no quality there would be no profit, that's the bottomline. Each studio owned by EA tries to offer quality titles, thinking otherwise is illogical. These studios depend on quality to survive, as soon as the quality drops the studio is disolved. Which these studios live with that risk day in and day out, more so than companies not ownd by publishers such as this.

    Crap doesn't sell just look at MOH's last outing, or certain Madden or NBA titles. Profit is made through excellent products and customer trust.

    Everything will go full circle eventually.. EA becomes so obsessed with profit and their quality will be so bad that they will eventually be overcome by a "decent" smaller developer..

     

    Impossible?  All hope is lost?

     

    Nah.  The industry still has decent quality so it'll be awhile before it swings around.

  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786

    I have not bought a game published, produced or developed by EA in over a year.  I wigh more gamers would just stop buying games from certain companies.

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769

    Originally posted by Aquazen

    I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

    No.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • EliandalEliandal Member Posts: 796

    Originally posted by MMOman101

    I have not bought a game published, produced or developed by EA in over a year.  I wigh more gamers would just stop buying games from certain companies.

      A little ridiculous don't you think?  So, we all gang up and boycott?  You pick EA, I pick NC, someone else picks SE and another picks SOE - suddenly nothing selling because nothing is being produced.  You can make your choices for yourself, yes.  Wishing that a company like Bioware, or Funcom go out of business because you don't like the parent?  Yeah

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342

    I love all the complaints about EA and how they are so evil because they want to make money....image

     

    Can't recall the last time I saw a not-for-profit deliver any kind of video game...hmmm...oh yeah.... 

     

    This thread needs to pitch a tent alongside the retards that are "occupying" Wall Street...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Aquazen

    I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

    No.

    There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

    Why do you say no?

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by Slampig

    I love all the complaints about EA and how they are so evil because they want to make money....image

     

    Can't recall the last time I saw a not-for-profit deliver any kind of video game...hmmm...oh yeah.... 

     

    This thread needs to pitch a tent alongside the retards that are "occupying" Wall Street...

    People understand that a business needs to make money.

    People support many businesses with such understanding.

    EA is on a different level.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • SiveriaSiveria Member UncommonPosts: 1,416

    Originally posted by popinjay

    "Reason for Concern, EA's Q2 reports"... *audience yawns**

     



    "In other news...

     

    Battlefield 3 Breaks EA Records With 5M Sold Week One

     

     



     

    Electronic Arts' multiplayer-focused military shooter Battlefield 3 was purchased by 5 million consumers worldwide in its first week on the market, according to company estimates.



    This would put the game's sell-through at roughly half of the 10 million copies shipped during the period, a record day-one shipment for the company.



    The 5 million sold also represents a new record for the company, which today called Battlefield 3 "the fastest-selling game in EA's history."



    As EA COO Peter Moore recently revealed, the 10 million copies shipped was roughly double that of last year's Medal of Honor, EA's other current first-person-shooter franchise.



     

    I never understood how a fps game sells so much, its the exact same stuff in every new version, with usually very little if anything new, yet people eat it up in droves, I don't get it.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Aquazen

    I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?
    No.


    There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.
    Why do you say no?

    Not that I'm in either camp but....


    A hamburger ordered through a drive-thru costs the same as if you walked inside. You don't get a discount because you walked 50 feet inside the store and carried it outside yourself.

    Why should you get a discount ordering online?


  • Originally posted by popinjay

     




    Originally posted by VirusDancer





    Originally posted by waynejr2






    Originally posted by Aquazen



    I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?






    No.





    There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

    Why do you say no?




    Not that I'm in either camp but....

     

     



    A hamburger ordered through a drive-thru costs the same as if you walked inside. You don't get a discount because you walked 50 feet inside the store and carried it outside yourself.

     

    Why should you get a discount ordering online?

    well the idea with paying less for a digital version is that you are cutting out the cost of making the box, disk, and anything else that comes with it.  buying a bixed version online i could see no real reason to pay less, but seems if there are no material costs from a digital download then it should be less

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by gaou

    Originally posted by popinjay
     

    Not that I'm in either camp but....
     
     

    A hamburger ordered through a drive-thru costs the same as if you walked inside. You don't get a discount because you walked 50 feet inside the store and carried it outside yourself.
     
    Why should you get a discount ordering online?
    well the idea with paying less for a digital version is that you are cutting out the cost of making the box, disk, and anything else that comes with it.  buying a bixed version online i could see no real reason to pay less, but seems if there are no material costs from a digital download then it should be less

    That's one way of looking at it and that side was presented but the labor to make the product is different than packaging.


    The reason they charge you the same as a box is because when they ship it as a box, they get half or sometimes less than the actual cost of the game. They have to sell a $50 box to Walmart for $25 so Walmart can sell it for $50.


    So the company still has to pay for the box costs regardless, even though the online person isn't using it.


    If they sold the game on their site for $25, then Walmart would squawk because a lot of people would just buy it there and Walmart would be losing sales probably.

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by gaou

    Originally posted by popinjay

     




    Originally posted by VirusDancer






    Originally posted by waynejr2






    Originally posted by Aquazen



    I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?






    No.






    There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

    Why do you say no?





    Not that I'm in either camp but....

     

     



    A hamburger ordered through a drive-thru costs the same as if you walked inside. You don't get a discount because you walked 50 feet inside the store and carried it outside yourself.

     

    Why should you get a discount ordering online?

    well the idea with paying less for a digital version is that you are cutting out the cost of making the box, disk, and anything else that comes with it.  buying a bixed version online i could see no real reason to pay less, but seems if there are no material costs from a digital download then it should be less

    To elaborate:

    The cost of the application itself...is the same.  But it is not just the cost of the application.

    Digital copy - there is no physical media, no physical packaging.  There is no physical warehousing.  There is no physical distribution.  With none of that involved, there are no employees that get paid a wage nor benefits.  There is no buying back any unsold copies of the game.  There is no processing returns for defective media, etc.  The list goes on and on...

    The Digital Copy...does not involve any of those costs.  The Physical Copy does.

    There is X profit on the Physical Copy.

    If X was maintained for the Digital Copy, then the cost of the Digital Copy would be much less.

    It is not.  X is not maintained.  X is substantially more on the Digital Copy than the Physical Copy when one takes into account the number of copies sold.

    And to some, it goes beyond this.  What?  In what way?

    Well, as mentioned - you do not have the labor costs there.  This means you're not hiring and you've likely laid off people.  Not only with your company, but with the company you would have used for warehousing and the company you would have used for distribution... it trickles on.

    Digital Copies are bad for the economy... because all of those people without jobs, have no money to spend in the economy.

    In the end, you're simply left with that game publisher with their increased profits...

    ...just a way that some might look at it - some only part of the way and some beyond even what I stated here.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Originally posted by waynejr2


    Originally posted by Aquazen

    I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

    No.

    There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

    Why do you say no?

    Whether it should or shouldn't really isn't the issue. There's a much larger factor here, inflation. PC Games development is one of the few industries that have not followed this business trend over the last 20 years. I still remember my mother bicthin' about $50 for one game? When I was the age of 12. Most PC games still retail for around the same price (or less), and I'll be 33 in a week. (The console market is a different story as they usually run around $10 more today.)

    Hell the PC gaming market has been shrinking in price over the last few years when it comes to hardware. People overlook this constantly when arguing over this stuff.

    If we want to look further we can look at the vilified F2P market rising. Look at the amount of game you can play for free compared to the single player or console world, neither of those markets has anything like that.

    I look at what you get for free in a game like AOC, CO, COH, FE, LOTRO, etc.. and compare that to what people pay 60 dollars (in some cases monthly) for in the single player world. I just can't help but /facepalm when I see people bitching about the $2.00 here or $6.00 to $10.00 there they ask for, to support their business.

    I'd say this market has lost sight of reality in a lot of cases, there's no perspective.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by waynejr2


    Originally posted by Aquazen

    I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

    No.

    There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

    Why do you say no?

    Whether it should or shouldn't really isn't the issue. There's a much larger factor here, inflation. PC Games development is one of the few industries that have not followed this business trend over the last 20 years. I stil remember my mother bicthin' about $50 for one game? When I was the age of 12. Most PC games still retail for around the same price (or less), and I'll be 33 in a week. The console market is a different story as they usually run around $10 more today.

    Hell the PC gaming market has been shrinking in price over the last few years when it comes to hardware. People over look this constantly when arguing over this stuff.

    If we want to look further we can look at the vilified F2P market rising. Look at the amount of game you can play for free compared to the single player or console world, neither of those markets has anything like that.

    I look at what you get for free in a game like AOC, CO, COH, FE, LOTRO, etc.. and compare that to what people pay 60 dollars (in some cases monthly) for in the single player world. I just can't help but /facepalm when I see people bicthing about the $2.00 here or $6.00 to $10.00 there they ask for to support their business.

    I'd say this market has lost sight of reality in a lot of cases, there's no perspective.

    I'd tend to disagree on this.  Look at how many units were sold with that $50 then and how many units are sold now for that $50...

    ...unless I'm reading what you're saying wrong.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by waynejr2


    Originally posted by Aquazen

    I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

    No.

    There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

    Why do you say no?

    Whether it should or shouldn't really isn't the issue. There's a much larger factor here, inflation. PC Games development is one of the few industries that have not followed this business trend over the last 20 years. I stil remember my mother bicthin' about $50 for one game? When I was the age of 12. Most PC games still retail for around the same price (or less), and I'll be 33 in a week. The console market is a different story as they usually run around $10 more today.

    Hell the PC gaming market has been shrinking in price over the last few years when it comes to hardware. People over look this constantly when arguing over this stuff.

    If we want to look further we can look at the vilified F2P market rising. Look at the amount of game you can play for free compared to the single player or console world, neither of those markets has anything like that.

    I look at what you get for free in a game like AOC, CO, COH, FE, LOTRO, etc.. and compare that to what people pay 60 dollars (in some cases monthly) for in the single player world. I just can't help but /facepalm when I see people bicthing about the $2.00 here or $6.00 to $10.00 there they ask for to support their business.

    I'd say this market has lost sight of reality in a lot of cases, there's no perspective.

    I'd tend to disagree on this.  Look at how many units were sold with that $50 then and how many units are sold now for that $50...

    ...unless I'm reading what you're saying wrong.

    Again for some perspective in most markets when the market grows they charge more, as they know those who have grown to love that market will pay it.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    I have no issue with digital downloads, I do have a problem  with sub fees+expansions+dlc+cash shops. Bioware/Ea will be milking every penny out of their fanbase and the sad thing is that the game isn't even worthy of all that money spending, no mmo is for that matter. 

    30
  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by SaintViktor
    I have no issue with digital downloads, I do have a problem  with sub fees+expansions+dlc+cash shops. Bioware/Ea will be milking every penny out of their fanbase and the sad thing is that the game isn't even worthy of all that money spending, no mmo is for that matter. 

    What game doesn't "milk" it's fanbase?

    The worthy portion would appear to be your personal opinion of what's value to you, but plenty of fans of their particular games seem to think it is, which is why the industry keeps making more of them.

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by waynejr2


    Originally posted by Aquazen

    I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

    No.

    There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

    Why do you say no?

    Whether it should or shouldn't really isn't the issue. There's a much larger factor here, inflation. PC Games development is one of the few industries that have not followed this business trend over the last 20 years. I stil remember my mother bicthin' about $50 for one game? When I was the age of 12. Most PC games still retail for around the same price (or less), and I'll be 33 in a week. The console market is a different story as they usually run around $10 more today.

    Hell the PC gaming market has been shrinking in price over the last few years when it comes to hardware. People over look this constantly when arguing over this stuff.

    If we want to look further we can look at the vilified F2P market rising. Look at the amount of game you can play for free compared to the single player or console world, neither of those markets has anything like that.

    I look at what you get for free in a game like AOC, CO, COH, FE, LOTRO, etc.. and compare that to what people pay 60 dollars (in some cases monthly) for in the single player world. I just can't help but /facepalm when I see people bicthing about the $2.00 here or $6.00 to $10.00 there they ask for to support their business.

    I'd say this market has lost sight of reality in a lot of cases, there's no perspective.

    I'd tend to disagree on this.  Look at how many units were sold with that $50 then and how many units are sold now for that $50...

    ...unless I'm reading what you're saying wrong.

    Again for some perspective in most markets when the market grows they charge more, as they know those who have grown to love that market will pay it.

     

    While on one hand you do have the ability to charge more because there will be demand - you also have the psychological draw in not charging more...while still selling a massive quantity of units and making a greater profit that you did previously.  Usually it is a case of both... the price will go up slowly.  Games actually do cost more now than they did 10 years ago, 20 years ago.  Getting into a discussion of value, one might also argue they offer less (which is where I typically go off on my infamous grocery store analogy)...

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,088

    Sky is falling again? Could we let it stay up for once? It always makes such a mess.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

     

    While on one hand you do have the ability to charge more because there will be demand - you also have the psychological draw in not charging more...while still selling a massive quantity of units and making a greater profit that you did previously.  Usually it is a case of both... the price will go up slowly.  Games actually do cost more now than they did 10 years ago, 20 years ago.  Getting into a discussion of value, one might also argue they offer less (which is where I typically go off on my infamous grocery store analogy)...

    Hmm , this is going ino the area of subjectivity now though, as whether games offer more today is a personal opinion, more-so than a fact we can gauge. While you may have felt systems in games were deeper back then, IMO in some cases they were. The problem is more money is put into games today, far more actually. Far more devs typically work on a single game as well. Really this topic boils down to what you want to see in a game, rather than whether you get more in a game today.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


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