Well, also with Rift, most people would get bored after 1 or 2 rifts anyways because it was just the same thing over and over and it was much more efficient to do quests to level.
With GW2, the primary form of leveling will be DEs. And not only that, but the more people you play with, the better experience and rewards you'll get from doing DEs since they scale.
Honestly though, at launch day there's going to be so many people running around doing events that it's not like you're gonna feel alone if you're in a group or not. There's going to be so many people around all working together and doing the same events with you.
Working together and doing the same thing at the same time... are not necessarily the same thing. Some might call it being a stickler for details, but it is what it is...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
It is undisputable that if people were to do an event that finished almost as quickly as it started that people wouldn't bother speaking, but if the event was longer and required working together people would be more likely to communicate. Probably first by shouting insults at each other but still communication nonetheless.
I had to chuckle at this... perhaps I'm jaded, but I seriously lol'd at this.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I don't think OP meant that you aren't ABLE to group and chat in open world, because you are. I think he just meant that most people wouldn't do it because he believes there's no need to.
It makes me think of the public groups in RIFT. How many times would people group up without saying a word to eachother, whack-a-mob, then go on their separate ways again...
There won't be an auto-grouping feature in GW2, like there is in Rift. You will have to manually send/accept a party invite in order to be in a party. Also there are no open-world quest in GW2, so when you're with some random people completing an Event chain, what do you do after you're done? Simple, you do more events, since there are no quests that force to you part ways. That almost never happens in Rift, unless you're rift farming.
It was in regard to the social aspects...if you do not even have to group... how will it not be worse than it was in RIFT?
Not having to group is the whole point. There's a world to save, who has time to group? NPCs shout for everybody in the area to come help.
Cross profession combos are designed to be very visual. The ranger can move behind the elementalist's fire wall, or the elementalist can see the ranger and drop the wall in front of them. Or talking about tactics could be the icebreaker to a conversation.
Self heals are the most powerful heals and there's no ally targeted abilities. Wards on the ground or healing waterspouts are going to be things people are going to run inside. One of the major goals of GW2's combat is to have people looking at the screen and not at the UI. So grouping might help a little bit, but it's not necessary.
You just have to be able to imagine a world where it's impossible for another player to grief you. No KSing, no tagging, no competition, everybody even gets a whack at every gathering node. Instead of viewing each other player as competition or with suspicion, you want to see other players.
The other aspect to DEs is the chaining together. If you know someone is going to leave because it's a rift or because you're doing a dungeon with dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk. But if everyone has every incentive to follow the chain to the end, and probably just walk together towards another DE after that, then people will start talking to one another.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Well, I guess you could try to solo the dungeons in exploration mode or ignore your teammates in PVP. That is, if you like to die all the time
Of course there is normal grouping in GW2. Its just that with dynamic events in the persistant world, there is no need for it all the time. That doesnt mean you cant group if you want to. Also, in dungeons in exploration mode you stand no chance without having a group that works well together.
When I play with rl friends we always group. GW2 will be perfect for this because of the autoscaling down of lvl if your toon is higher lvl then the area. Personally I hate having a high lvl toon in my group that kills everything in 1 hit, so Im glad that this is not possible in GW2
It was in regard to the social aspects...if you do not even have to group... how will it not be worse than it was in RIFT?
Not having to group is the whole point. There's a world to save, who has time to group? NPCs shout for everybody in the area to come help.
Pretty much everybody in almost every story we've had since the dawn of time...?
Cross profession combos are designed to be very visual. The ranger can move behind the elementalist's fire wall, or the elementalist can see the ranger and drop the wall in front of them. Or talking about tactics could be the icebreaker to a conversation.
I'm going off of a view of the playerbase...that is perhaps jaded. People are anti-social.
With those groups in RIFT, if it is not already a public group - the only conversation that might take place is asking if you can get in the group. So if even that needs not be asked... is the gist of what I'm asking.
Self heals are the most powerful heals and there's no ally targeted abilities. Wards on the ground or healing waterspouts are going to be things people are going to run inside. One of the major goals of GW2's combat is to have people looking at the screen and not at the UI. So grouping might help a little bit, but it's not necessary.
And none of that really involves...socialization...which is what I believed was the gist of his argument.
You just have to be able to imagine a world where it's impossible for another player to grief you. No KSing, no tagging, no competition, everybody even gets a whack at every gathering node. Instead of viewing each other player as competition or with suspicion, you want to see other players.
The other aspect to DEs is the chaining together. If you know someone is going to leave because it's a rift or because you're doing a dungeon with dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk. But if everyone has every incentive to follow the chain to the end, and probably just walk together towards another DE after that, then people will start talking to one another.
Have you played RIFT? During one of the invasions? Where you have to close X of Y rifts, run stones, and then defeat a boss at the end? That is a chain...done without any conversation...outside of the usual, "Hey, can I get in the group?"
Honestly, I just see it as no tapping. It's not going to be a case that there will not be groups, because there will still be groups. Two groups might end up wailing on something, which you would not have happen in another game...that has tapping. The other group might just stand by and ignore it. RIFT has some instances where you get credit regardless of the tapping. Most games though, if it's tapped...ignore it. ArenaNet is doing away with that... so I can see more people doing the same thing - does not necessarily mean they're working together or being social in the least.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
It was in regard to the social aspects...if you do not even have to group... how will it not be worse than it was in RIFT?
Not having to group is the whole point. There's a world to save, who has time to group? NPCs shout for everybody in the area to come help.
Pretty much everybody in almost every story we've had since the dawn of time...?
No, it has NEVER happened before in an MMO. These aren't quests where an NPC is telling you that YOU need to do something. This is an event which happens to the world whether players are even there or not. Everyone in the area is welcome to participate.
Cross profession combos are designed to be very visual. The ranger can move behind the elementalist's fire wall, or the elementalist can see the ranger and drop the wall in front of them. Or talking about tactics could be the icebreaker to a conversation.
I'm going off of a view of the playerbase...that is perhaps jaded. People are anti-social.
With those groups in RIFT, if it is not already a public group - the only conversation that might take place is asking if you can get in the group. So if even that needs not be asked... is the gist of what I'm asking.
Because of all the other barriers to grouping. That people are going to leave right after because there's no incentive to stay. Because short of one person being a healer, there's going to be no cross profession interaction. Because the rest of the quest based game has you suspicious of other players. If you group with that guy, is he going to ninja the loot? This doesn't happen in GW2.
Self heals are the most powerful heals and there's no ally targeted abilities. Wards on the ground or healing waterspouts are going to be things people are going to run inside. One of the major goals of GW2's combat is to have people looking at the screen and not at the UI. So grouping might help a little bit, but it's not necessary.
And none of that really involves...socialization...which is what I believed was the gist of his argument.
Your argument was how will the game not be worse than Rift if grouping isn't required. I was saying that grouping is not required and there's no real penalty for not doing it.
You just have to be able to imagine a world where it's impossible for another player to grief you. No KSing, no tagging, no competition, everybody even gets a whack at every gathering node. Instead of viewing each other player as competition or with suspicion, you want to see other players.
The other aspect to DEs is the chaining together. If you know someone is going to leave because it's a rift or because you're doing a dungeon with dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk. But if everyone has every incentive to follow the chain to the end, and probably just walk together towards another DE after that, then people will start talking to one another.
Have you played RIFT? During one of the invasions? Where you have to close X of Y rifts, run stones, and then defeat a boss at the end? That is a chain...done without any conversation...outside of the usual, "Hey, can I get in the group?"
And how long does that chain take? And what happens at the end? People leave, right? GW2's system is different, we're talking the built-in incentives to follow an ad hoc band of players around the zone for an indefinite amount of time.
Honestly, I just see it as no tapping. It's not going to be a case that there will not be groups, because there will still be groups. Two groups might end up wailing on something, which you would not have happen in another game...that has tapping. The other group might just stand by and ignore it. RIFT has some instances where you get credit regardless of the tapping. Most games though, if it's tapped...ignore it. ArenaNet is doing away with that... so I can see more people doing the same thing - does not necessarily mean they're working together or being social in the least.
This isn't Rift. Even if people aren't consciously working together or socializing, they're still all working towards a common goal when they take part in a DE. Even if it doesn't happen at first, they still might start socializing or working together eventually. People might play together for a half hour, an hour, or their entire night. Anyone rezzing someone else might be an icebreaker, or it could be cross profession combos, or someone saving someone else. Developers are seeing this kind of socializing behavior just in playtesting, or even a little bit in half hour demos where people are guaranteed to never play together again.
People need to stop looking at this like it didn't happen in another game. GW2 is trying to remove ALL barriers to socializing. If certain people are adamant about being anti-social, that's fine, they can and still be around other people. But other people are going to warm up to being social if for no other reason than there's absolutely no reason not to be.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I just have to comment on the whole griefing thing I see constantly touted about this game. I know that Anet is trying their hardest to make this a grief-free game. But it is naive to believe that GW2 will be "devoid of griefing" as someone earlier put it.
There will always be a way to piss in someone's corn flakes in these types of games. No matter how hard a dev tries. Where there's a will there's a way. I'm just being a realist here. GW2 will have its own style of griefing when it comes out. Whether you put up with it or not is up to you. But don't think for a minute that this game is gonna be some magical grief free land where everyone is farting rainbows. Its just human nature. Its part of social play. You can look at it as a fact of humanity or the antichrist it doesn't matter.
It was in regard to the social aspects...if you do not even have to group... how will it not be worse than it was in RIFT?
Not having to group is the whole point. There's a world to save, who has time to group? NPCs shout for everybody in the area to come help.
Pretty much everybody in almost every story we've had since the dawn of time...?
No, it has NEVER happened before in an MMO. These aren't quests where an NPC is telling you that YOU need to do something. This is an event which happens to the world whether players are even there or not. Everyone in the area is welcome to participate.
VD - Grouping. Grouping has pretty much happened in almost every story since the dawn of time. Heroes have taken the time to put together their group and then they head out. You can look at basic mythic structure...
I was not commenting on the NPCs shouting for help. Which although not common, actually pretty damn rare - has actually happened before. Many of the things that ArenaNet comments on, is as if they never played MMOs before WoW. Do they buy into WoW being the first MMO? I mean, c'mon. Orc Invasions in UO...way back...waaaaaaaaaaaay back.
Cross profession combos are designed to be very visual. The ranger can move behind the elementalist's fire wall, or the elementalist can see the ranger and drop the wall in front of them. Or talking about tactics could be the icebreaker to a conversation.
I'm going off of a view of the playerbase...that is perhaps jaded. People are anti-social.
With those groups in RIFT, if it is not already a public group - the only conversation that might take place is asking if you can get in the group. So if even that needs not be asked... is the gist of what I'm asking.
Because of all the other barriers to grouping. That people are going to leave right after because there's no incentive to stay. Because short of one person being a healer, there's going to be no cross profession interaction. Because the rest of the quest based game has you suspicious of other players. If you group with that guy, is he going to ninja the loot? This doesn't happen in GW2.
VD - I do not think it is because of paranoia about loot ninjas. For the most part, there is no need to group in games. They're too easy. You need a group for dungeons, raids, PvP, arenas - but with regard to dungeons and PvP - the game will often put you in the group. You do not need to find it - there is no social interaction required.
I suppose the issue I'm having with some of what is being said here is this: you don't need to group - but it's going to be more social. You don't need to work with other players - because you'll be working with other players. It starts to come off as doublespeak.
Self heals are the most powerful heals and there's no ally targeted abilities. Wards on the ground or healing waterspouts are going to be things people are going to run inside. One of the major goals of GW2's combat is to have people looking at the screen and not at the UI. So grouping might help a little bit, but it's not necessary.
And none of that really involves...socialization...which is what I believed was the gist of his argument.
Your argument was how will the game not be worse than Rift if grouping isn't required. I was saying that grouping is not required and there's no real penalty for not doing it.
VD - Not that the game will be worse - that socialization will be worse. Interaction worse. I did not say that it would be, I asked how it could not be. If you do not even need the "Hey, can I get in the group?" conversation that you have in RIFT...then what are you left with as far as conversation/socialization?
You just have to be able to imagine a world where it's impossible for another player to grief you. No KSing, no tagging, no competition, everybody even gets a whack at every gathering node. Instead of viewing each other player as competition or with suspicion, you want to see other players.
The other aspect to DEs is the chaining together. If you know someone is going to leave because it's a rift or because you're doing a dungeon with dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk. But if everyone has every incentive to follow the chain to the end, and probably just walk together towards another DE after that, then people will start talking to one another.
Have you played RIFT? During one of the invasions? Where you have to close X of Y rifts, run stones, and then defeat a boss at the end? That is a chain...done without any conversation...outside of the usual, "Hey, can I get in the group?"
And how long does that chain take? And what happens at the end? People leave, right? GW2's system is different, we're talking the built-in incentives to follow an ad hoc band of players around the zone for an indefinite amount of time.
VD - With no apparent reason to socialize. Just follow them around - try to get some significant hits in on the particular mobs so you get credit. Tapping has been removed. I think that is great. It does not mean that Tom is going to say anything to Jerry. I think that is great that there will not necessarily be all the bitching about KSing and the like because there is no tapping - but what reason does Tom have to say anything to Jerry?
Honestly, I just see it as no tapping. It's not going to be a case that there will not be groups, because there will still be groups. Two groups might end up wailing on something, which you would not have happen in another game...that has tapping. The other group might just stand by and ignore it. RIFT has some instances where you get credit regardless of the tapping. Most games though, if it's tapped...ignore it. ArenaNet is doing away with that... so I can see more people doing the same thing - does not necessarily mean they're working together or being social in the least.
This isn't Rift. Even if people aren't consciously working together or socializing, they're still all working towards a common goal when they take part in a DE. Even if it doesn't happen at first, they still might start socializing or working together eventually. People might play together for a half hour, an hour, or their entire night. Anyone rezzing someone else might be an icebreaker, or it could be cross profession combos, or someone saving someone else. Developers are seeing this kind of socializing behavior just in playtesting, or even a little bit in half hour demos where people are guaranteed to never play together again.
VD - The playtesting is with a very limited group of players, no? Generally speaking, don't most folks get along with others in betas? The game launches - the average Joe comes in... world of difference, no? How many betas have you participated in?
People need to stop looking at this like it didn't happen in another game. GW2 is trying to remove ALL barriers to socializing. If certain people are adamant about being anti-social, that's fine, they can and still be around other people. But other people are going to warm up to being social if for no other reason than there's absolutely no reason not to be.
VD - so it basically comes down to the ninja looters and why people do not socialize? That lack of trust. If the person is no threat, if they are not going to get one up on another player - we're more likely to be social with them?
It feels very solo friendly... which to some is a good thing and to some it is a bad thing.
It seems like he was feeling that is a bad thing. From his point of view, it does look like that.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I just have to comment on the whole griefing thing I see constantly touted about this game. I know that Anet is trying their hardest to make this a grief-free game. But it is naive to believe that GW2 will be "devoid of griefing" as someone earlier put it.
There will always be a way to piss in someone's corn flakes in these types of games. No matter how hard a dev tries. Where there's a will there's a way. I'm just being a realist here. GW2 will have its own style of griefing when it comes out. Whether you put up with it or not is up to you. But don't think for a minute that this game is gonna be some magical grief free land where everyone is farting rainbows. Its just human nature. Its part of social play. You can look at it as a fact of humanity or the antichrist it doesn't matter.
As it stands, all commonplace forms of griefing in MMO's have been addressed. Devising a way around Arena Net's current system with some contrived method of griefing seems like it would burden the griefers more than it would the players. I can not think of any way to abuse the system to the infuriation of another player outside of verbal abuse, and that's solved with an ignore feature. This is emphasized by the fact that in the early iterations of game elements in Guild Wars 2, like dynamic events, the developers have said that they looked at it and asked "How could this possibly be griefed?" If they find a way, they either fix it or remove it from the game entirely.
I just have to comment on the whole griefing thing I see constantly touted about this game. I know that Anet is trying their hardest to make this a grief-free game. But it is naive to believe that GW2 will be "devoid of griefing" as someone earlier put it.
There will always be a way to piss in someone's corn flakes in these types of games. No matter how hard a dev tries. Where there's a will there's a way. I'm just being a realist here. GW2 will have its own style of griefing when it comes out. Whether you put up with it or not is up to you. But don't think for a minute that this game is gonna be some magical grief free land where everyone is farting rainbows. Its just human nature. Its part of social play. You can look at it as a fact of humanity or the antichrist it doesn't matter.
As it stands, all commonplace forms of griefing in MMO's have been addressed. Devising a way around Arena Net's current system with some contrived method of griefing seems like it would burden the griefers more than it would the players. I can not think of any way to abuse the system to the infuriation of another player outside of verbal abuse, and that's solved with an ignore feature. This is emphasized by the fact that in the early iterations of game elements in Guild Wars 2, like dynamic events, the developers have said that they looked at it and asked "How could this possibly be griefed?" If they find a way, they either fix it or remove it from the game entirely.
As an aside, based on what cali59 has said as well... reducing that opportunity to be griefed, will in of itself increase the socializing of some players.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
It was in regard to the social aspects...if you do not even have to group... how will it not be worse than it was in RIFT?
Not having to group is the whole point. There's a world to save, who has time to group? NPCs shout for everybody in the area to come help.
Pretty much everybody in almost every story we've had since the dawn of time...?
No, it has NEVER happened before in an MMO. These aren't quests where an NPC is telling you that YOU need to do something. This is an event which happens to the world whether players are even there or not. Everyone in the area is welcome to participate.
VD - Grouping. Grouping has pretty much happened in almost every story since the dawn of time. Heroes have taken the time to put together their group and then they head out. You can look at basic mythic structure...
I was not commenting on the NPCs shouting for help. Which although not common, actually pretty damn rare - has actually happened before. Many of the things that ArenaNet comments on, is as if they never played MMOs before WoW. Do they buy into WoW being the first MMO? I mean, c'mon. Orc Invasions in UO...way back...waaaaaaaaaaaay back.
Ok, it happened before in UO in some capacity. I stand corrected.
Cross profession combos are designed to be very visual. The ranger can move behind the elementalist's fire wall, or the elementalist can see the ranger and drop the wall in front of them. Or talking about tactics could be the icebreaker to a conversation.
I'm going off of a view of the playerbase...that is perhaps jaded. People are anti-social.
With those groups in RIFT, if it is not already a public group - the only conversation that might take place is asking if you can get in the group. So if even that needs not be asked... is the gist of what I'm asking.
Because of all the other barriers to grouping. That people are going to leave right after because there's no incentive to stay. Because short of one person being a healer, there's going to be no cross profession interaction. Because the rest of the quest based game has you suspicious of other players. If you group with that guy, is he going to ninja the loot? This doesn't happen in GW2.
VD - I do not think it is because of paranoia about loot ninjas. For the most part, there is no need to group in games. They're too easy. You need a group for dungeons, raids, PvP, arenas - but with regard to dungeons and PvP - the game will often put you in the group. You do not need to find it - there is no social interaction required.
I suppose the issue I'm having with some of what is being said here is this: you don't need to group - but it's going to be more social. You don't need to work with other players - because you'll be working with other players. It starts to come off as doublespeak.
I'm not doublespeaking at all. You don't need to actively form a group, but unlike other games there are incentives to focus fire mobs due to loot and xp sharing, there are cross profession combos, there is anybody rezzing anybody, there is event chaining so you stay around the same people. There is automentoring and sidekicking so you can play with your friends regardless of level. There is instant teleportation so you can get to them quickly. There is node sharing. The events scale so it's always a challenge. The whole system is designed from the ground up to get people working together on common goals in proximity to each other for extended periods of time.
Self heals are the most powerful heals and there's no ally targeted abilities. Wards on the ground or healing waterspouts are going to be things people are going to run inside. One of the major goals of GW2's combat is to have people looking at the screen and not at the UI. So grouping might help a little bit, but it's not necessary.
And none of that really involves...socialization...which is what I believed was the gist of his argument.
Your argument was how will the game not be worse than Rift if grouping isn't required. I was saying that grouping is not required and there's no real penalty for not doing it.
VD - Not that the game will be worse - that socialization will be worse. Interaction worse. I did not say that it would be, I asked how it could not be. If you do not even need the "Hey, can I get in the group?" conversation that you have in RIFT...then what are you left with as far as conversation/socialization?
I don't know, the cross profession combos, builds, traits, dyes, where your armor is from, MMO histories, where you're from, the weather, that episode of Mad Men, the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow. Talk about whatever you want.
In Rift, "can I get in the group" might have been the beginning and end of the conversation, because you're not sticking around and you're not headed the same place afterwards and if you go quest afterwards, you're going to want to be alone. None of those things need apply in GW2.
You just have to be able to imagine a world where it's impossible for another player to grief you. No KSing, no tagging, no competition, everybody even gets a whack at every gathering node. Instead of viewing each other player as competition or with suspicion, you want to see other players.
The other aspect to DEs is the chaining together. If you know someone is going to leave because it's a rift or because you're doing a dungeon with dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk. But if everyone has every incentive to follow the chain to the end, and probably just walk together towards another DE after that, then people will start talking to one another.
Have you played RIFT? During one of the invasions? Where you have to close X of Y rifts, run stones, and then defeat a boss at the end? That is a chain...done without any conversation...outside of the usual, "Hey, can I get in the group?"
And how long does that chain take? And what happens at the end? People leave, right? GW2's system is different, we're talking the built-in incentives to follow an ad hoc band of players around the zone for an indefinite amount of time.
VD - With no apparent reason to socialize. Just follow them around - try to get some significant hits in on the particular mobs so you get credit. Tapping has been removed. I think that is great. It does not mean that Tom is going to say anything to Jerry. I think that is great that there will not necessarily be all the bitching about KSing and the like because there is no tapping - but what reason does Tom have to say anything to Jerry?
As I said above, it doesn't have to be about the game. In EQ, you had 6 people in a group and all but the puller are just sitting around camping. Extended periods together and downtime get people talking. I don't miss contested dungeons, but I do miss not feeling like you have to blast through an instance. If DEs are capable of giving people time together and downtime between events, not everybody is going to start talking, but some will.
Honestly, I just see it as no tapping. It's not going to be a case that there will not be groups, because there will still be groups. Two groups might end up wailing on something, which you would not have happen in another game...that has tapping. The other group might just stand by and ignore it. RIFT has some instances where you get credit regardless of the tapping. Most games though, if it's tapped...ignore it. ArenaNet is doing away with that... so I can see more people doing the same thing - does not necessarily mean they're working together or being social in the least.
This isn't Rift. Even if people aren't consciously working together or socializing, they're still all working towards a common goal when they take part in a DE. Even if it doesn't happen at first, they still might start socializing or working together eventually. People might play together for a half hour, an hour, or their entire night. Anyone rezzing someone else might be an icebreaker, or it could be cross profession combos, or someone saving someone else. Developers are seeing this kind of socializing behavior just in playtesting, or even a little bit in half hour demos where people are guaranteed to never play together again.
VD - The playtesting is with a very limited group of players, no? Generally speaking, don't most folks get along with others in betas? The game launches - the average Joe comes in... world of difference, no? How many betas have you participated in?
The average Joe might be more casual. And the game is designed to be as griefless as possible, so what is going to prompt people to not get along?
People need to stop looking at this like it didn't happen in another game. GW2 is trying to remove ALL barriers to socializing. If certain people are adamant about being anti-social, that's fine, they can and still be around other people. But other people are going to warm up to being social if for no other reason than there's absolutely no reason not to be.
VD - so it basically comes down to the ninja looters and why people do not socialize? That lack of trust. If the person is no threat, if they are not going to get one up on another player - we're more likely to be social with them?
It feels very solo friendly... which to some is a good thing and to some it is a bad thing.
It seems like he was feeling that is a bad thing. From his point of view, it does look like that.
It is an extremely solo friendly game. A person can always find something to do solo. But a person can be soloing and be very much a part of what other people are doing in GW2 without the barriers that exist in other games.
I really do think perceived threats are a big part of it. There's only so many times someone is going to steal a node from you or start that escort quest without you before you start doing it to other people because you're tired of being the one getting shit on. In GW2 the developers want you to always be happy to see another person. I don't think people generally are happy to see someone and go out of their way to ignore them.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
This isn't Rift. Even if people aren't consciously working together or socializing, they're still all working towards a common goal when they take part in a DE. Even if it doesn't happen at first, they still might start socializing or working together eventually.
No it really boils down to long term commitment in building a community. There's no reason to if a game is approached as a pick up and play, or stop at any time type of game. What purpose does an overarching community serve is the real question? What are they building toward?
For one GW2 seems a little too fast paced for full on text based social interaction while in combat. Most strategy will be handled on TS, I'm sure of that with the average nature of active combat. Which automatically puts players out of the game on a communication level.
Second since the overall focus of this franchise is squad based PVP that's where many in the community will gravitate, putting the usual carebear vs Leetsauce wedge between themselves and PVE players (that's inevitable).
Right there are two strikes against an overreaching community.
Drop in drop out PVE objectives (DE'S) is partially a third, considering the other two issues especially the former (VEnt, TS). Then we have the ability to teleport which makes up the second half of the third, as it removes the world from the equation. That's three strikes that I can count and we know what that usually means.
I really don't see that element in this game that is supposed to draw all of these players together, considering all they have to push them apart; as well as alleviates the need to reach out for help through a want or need to .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I just have to comment on the whole griefing thing I see constantly touted about this game. I know that Anet is trying their hardest to make this a grief-free game. But it is naive to believe that GW2 will be "devoid of griefing" as someone earlier put it.
There will always be a way to piss in someone's corn flakes in these types of games. No matter how hard a dev tries. Where there's a will there's a way. I'm just being a realist here. GW2 will have its own style of griefing when it comes out. Whether you put up with it or not is up to you. But don't think for a minute that this game is gonna be some magical grief free land where everyone is farting rainbows. Its just human nature. Its part of social play. You can look at it as a fact of humanity or the antichrist it doesn't matter.
"Devoid of griefing" sounds like something I would say, though I try to back away from that and say "make it as griefless as possible."
We know that DEs are designed so that nobody can make it fail. If someone can, they fix or scrap the event.
There's no kill stealing, mob tagging, ninja looting or node stealing. Nobody can start a quest without you. I think the majority of the reasons someone would be pissed off at someone else are taken care of.
Beyond that though, I think the mechanics of the game just don't lend themselves to griefing. Like sure, someone could probably dump mobs onto you, but there's no penalty for death as long as someone rezzes you. Even being defeated is only a minor cost if you can't get a rez.
Still, there might be people who are determined to make your life miserable but it seems easy to deal with. There's instant teleportation for low cost to any waypoint you've been to before. With automentoring, the game lets you replay any zone or DE that's equal or lower level than you. DEs give generic rewards so you never have to do any particular one. If someone is giving you a hard time, you can just teleport away and take part in any other event you see.
If a griefer can't get a reaction out of their intended victim, why bother griefing at all?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Exactly that part was what made me doubt the system.... If people don't have to talk to work together, most of them will not... You can feel very lonely surrounded by a lot of people
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
There are all sorts of people that I don't want to group with, and probably a fair share that don't want to group with me. With GW2, we can both fight the same battle, on the same side, and otherwise don't have to put up with each other. I would much rather have that, then be forced to group up with people I don't like just to play a game.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
There are all sorts of people that I don't want to group with, and probably a fair share that don't want to group with me. With GW2, we can both fight the same battle, on the same side, and otherwise don't have to put up with each other. I would much rather have that, then be forced to group up with people I don't like just to play a game.
You make it sound like GW2 is a wow clone because that is exactly what people do in wow.
GW2 Fans are so delusional.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I have the same practice as you, i group to find friends. But i work at it in a different sense. If the other person actually wants to be friends and replies to my tell then i add them otherwise i don't bother because being in hundreds of heroic dungeons in WoW you often end up with douchebags who would rather just spit on you then talk to you. So i've learned to only respond to kindness, if some idiots come along and want to cause trouble the almighty ignore oblivion is where they end up. The design of the game has no baring [sic] on how the social aspects occur in the game. That's the same as saying as the devil made me do it, it's relieving all responsibility from the community for how the community is.
Edit: i hate the forum system on this site, whoever thought of disabling the computer's own word for word spellcheck....weird.
This isn't Rift. Even if people aren't consciously working together or socializing, they're still all working towards a common goal when they take part in a DE. Even if it doesn't happen at first, they still might start socializing or working together eventually.
No it really boils down to long term commitment in building a community. There's no reason to if a game is approached as a pick up and play, or stop at any time type of game. What purpose does an overarching community serve is the real question? What are they building toward?
For one GW2 seems a little too fast paced for full on text based social interaction while in combat. Most strategy will be handled on TS, I'm sure of that with the average nature of active combat. Which automatically puts players out of the game on a communication level.
Second since the overall focus of this franchise is squad based PVP that's where many in the community will gravitate, putting the usual carebear vs Leetsauce wedge between themselves and PVE players (that's inevitable).
Right there are two strikes against an overreaching community.
Drop in drop out PVE objectives (DE'S) is partially a third, considering the other two issues especially the former (VEnt, TS). Then we have the ability to teleport which makes up the second half of the third, as it removes the world from the equation. That's three strikes that I can count and we know what that usually means.
I really don't see that element in this game that is supposed to draw all of these players together, considering all they have to push them apart; as well as alleviates the need to reach out for help through a want or need to .
Who is talking about an overarching community? I'm talking about the game removing the barriers from random people in the open world being able to play together and possibly initiate conversations. If absolutely nothing else, one thing people could be working towards is doing dungeons. The explorable mode of dungeons is supposed to be very difficult. Being able to work together with others in the open world, see how they play (situational awareness, rezzing, combos) would get people who were interested in doing those dungeons setting up a network of contacts for a later time.
In the open world people will not be able to communicate via TS because they won't be know one another and won't be grouped. Communication will have to happen in the downtime between events. Considering how little communication takes place in the open world in traditional MMOs (outside of Barrens chat) pretty much anything is a step up.
Even IF the overall focus of the franchise was on squad based PVP, that would have nothing to do with the kind of small scale PVE communication I'm talking about. Besides, people can do structured PVP immediately upon finishing the tutorial, as their characters get immediately scaled up and access to all gear and skills when talking part. Hardcore players can do their thing and gravitate toward TS chat if they want, the rest of the players in the open world can hang out and do their thing.
Being able to drop in to DEs encourages working together because then people don't have to waste time trying to catch up like they do in a quest line. Being able to drop out is for convenience but the game incentivizes you to complete the event (different levels of rewards) and encourages you to stay for the next one (chaining). Teleportation can only take you to waypoints. People still need to run through the world to where the events are. Once out in the world, in an ad hoc band of players, the incentive will be to keep going with them rather than porting to a waypoint and then having to go find other events and other bands.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
There are all sorts of people that I don't want to group with, and probably a fair share that don't want to group with me. With GW2, we can both fight the same battle, on the same side, and otherwise don't have to put up with each other. I would much rather have that, then be forced to group up with people I don't like just to play a game.
You make it sound like GW2 is a wow clone because that is exactly what people do in wow.
GW2 Fans are so delusional.
ok, so that is the biggest stretch I've ever seen for calling a game a WoW clone. I fail to see you logic or your point.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Who is talking about an overarching community? I'm talking about the game removing the barriers from random people in the open world being able to play together and possibly initiate conversations. If absolutely nothing else, one thing people could be working towards is doing dungeons. The explorable mode of dungeons is supposed to be very difficult. Being able to work together with others in the open world, see how they play (situational awareness, rezzing, combos) would get people who were interested in doing those dungeons setting up a network of contacts for a later time.
In the open world people will not be able to communicate via TS because they won't be know one another and won't be grouped. Communication will have to happen in the downtime between events. Considering how little communication takes place in the open world in traditional MMOs (outside of Barrens chat) pretty much anything is a step up.
Even IF the overall focus of the franchise was on squad based PVP, that would have nothing to do with the kind of small scale PVE communication I'm talking about. Besides, people can do structured PVP immediately upon finishing the tutorial, as their characters get immediately scaled up and access to all gear and skills when talking part. Hardcore players can do their thing and gravitate toward TS chat if they want, the rest of the players in the open world can hang out and do their thing.
Being able to drop in to DEs encourages working together because then people don't have to waste time trying to catch up like they do in a quest line. Being able to drop out is for convenience but the game incentivizes you to complete the event (different levels of rewards) and encourages you to stay for the next one (chaining). Teleportation can only take you to waypoints. People still need to run through the world to where the events are. Once out in the world, in an ad hoc band of players, the incentive will be to keep going with them rather than porting to a waypoint and then having to go find other events and other bands.
The overarching community is simply players reaching out to one another outside of the clicks they form.
WOW is simply another game in a sea of them, that fall under the topic of socially bankrupt games. Just about everything released since WOW has been. Which many would argue is the main problem with MMO's and how the genre lost track of what was most important, community building.
Second how did you miss I'm talking long term here, which makes the issue of no one knowing one another a moot point. I'm talking about where the social functionality of this game will go, and asking what is in place to ensure it doesn't go that route?
Drop in and drop out does no such thing, it simply removes the need to find help and be social.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Dude this is a VERY important subject ,one that not only relates to GW2 but all MMO's.
I have felt this very same opinion and i have mentioned it a few times.This type of grouping is imo not grouping at all and no it will not work as a well oiled machine.I believe part of the OP's point is that in normal type grouping you would stick together a while and make new friends from grouping.This type of grouping offers nothing to friendly chat or getting to know anyone.This will just be players running from event to event with really no care about anyone else what so ever.
I don't have the perfect answer to solve grouping,but i feel when players login online to play a MMO they should fully expect to be grouping and interacting with other players.This si not interacting,this is a superficial fake way to be in a group,this is really just a group header over players names.This is exactly like solo play but removes the "claim" tag from the mob and rewards everyone for the same kill steal.
I do know this much,i played FFXI and forced grouping DOES work and defined class roles DO work.When FFXI was still catered to that design the social was amazing, the community was amazing and i never had to see the kind of chat chanells i see in games now.SO bottom line is that it all works tremendously well if you have players that are there to play a mmorpg.
Part of the problem is "majority".i feel the majority want to solo,they don't want interaction or social and developers are catering to what makes more sales.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Exactly that part was what made me doubt the system.... If people don't have to talk to work together, most of them will not... You can feel very lonely surrounded by a lot of people
Well this is exactly the reason people WILL group. The last mmo that I played seriously was WAR and they had grouping done perfectly in that game. People would group in open word events (aka public quests) all the time even though the rewards system didn't depend on grouping at all - just like in GW2. The great part of this was that you were never forced to group, but you did it because it's more fun that way and you can coordinate better and maybe stick together for another event or two.
If you wanted to play a silent lone guy in a crowd you could do that too and the game wouldn't penalize you in any way for doing it.
Ok, so there are formal grouping mechanics in GW2 as http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Party says but... there are few more questions I'd like to have answered..
Are there going to be open parties? That was a pretty revolutionary system introduced in WAR and it worked like a charm. You create a party and make it open if you wish. No more LFG's no more LFM's... You simply check for open parties in the area you're entering, choose the one that's appealing to you (maybe you know somebody or they're doing an event you're interested in...) and that's it - you're in a party going somewhere doing something.
The second question is whether there is going to be a second level of grouping, like WAR's Warbands or WoW Raids. Imo that's a crucial thing if you're trying to coordinate large groups of players like in epic DEs and WvW. I'm really curious to see how is this going to work in GW2. In open world PvP in WAR even the 24-member warbands felt too small and it would have been great if the devs introduced a THIRD grouping level - Armies or something comprising of several warbands so instead of individuals in army display you would see the health and position of GROUPS.
If you have to force ppl to talk with each other in open world:
Forcing does not work.... But they have toencourage people to talk to eachother someway...
Is it the fault of the system or the ppl?
Edit
Imagine the following situation:
You go out to the park for a walk, you meet a bunch of unknown ppl
during your walk, also you meet some of your friends too.
Which case you are going to stop and start chatting?
Right?
Except you purposely want to have some new friends.
Now imagine there is a big fire in that park.... as that is more in case with an MMO.... This would require you to communicate with the strangers... and you could fight the fire together...
Now would you start communicating with those people after the fire is killed ?
I think you would, and so by fighting the the fire together you made new friends, while you where not in the park with the purpose of making new friends...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
Working together and doing the same thing at the same time... are not necessarily the same thing. Some might call it being a stickler for details, but it is what it is...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I had to chuckle at this... perhaps I'm jaded, but I seriously lol'd at this.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Not having to group is the whole point. There's a world to save, who has time to group? NPCs shout for everybody in the area to come help.
Cross profession combos are designed to be very visual. The ranger can move behind the elementalist's fire wall, or the elementalist can see the ranger and drop the wall in front of them. Or talking about tactics could be the icebreaker to a conversation.
Self heals are the most powerful heals and there's no ally targeted abilities. Wards on the ground or healing waterspouts are going to be things people are going to run inside. One of the major goals of GW2's combat is to have people looking at the screen and not at the UI. So grouping might help a little bit, but it's not necessary.
You just have to be able to imagine a world where it's impossible for another player to grief you. No KSing, no tagging, no competition, everybody even gets a whack at every gathering node. Instead of viewing each other player as competition or with suspicion, you want to see other players.
The other aspect to DEs is the chaining together. If you know someone is going to leave because it's a rift or because you're doing a dungeon with dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk. But if everyone has every incentive to follow the chain to the end, and probably just walk together towards another DE after that, then people will start talking to one another.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Well, I guess you could try to solo the dungeons in exploration mode or ignore your teammates in PVP. That is, if you like to die all the time
Of course there is normal grouping in GW2. Its just that with dynamic events in the persistant world, there is no need for it all the time. That doesnt mean you cant group if you want to. Also, in dungeons in exploration mode you stand no chance without having a group that works well together.
When I play with rl friends we always group. GW2 will be perfect for this because of the autoscaling down of lvl if your toon is higher lvl then the area. Personally I hate having a high lvl toon in my group that kills everything in 1 hit, so Im glad that this is not possible in GW2
Honestly, I just see it as no tapping. It's not going to be a case that there will not be groups, because there will still be groups. Two groups might end up wailing on something, which you would not have happen in another game...that has tapping. The other group might just stand by and ignore it. RIFT has some instances where you get credit regardless of the tapping. Most games though, if it's tapped...ignore it. ArenaNet is doing away with that... so I can see more people doing the same thing - does not necessarily mean they're working together or being social in the least.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
This isn't Rift. Even if people aren't consciously working together or socializing, they're still all working towards a common goal when they take part in a DE. Even if it doesn't happen at first, they still might start socializing or working together eventually. People might play together for a half hour, an hour, or their entire night. Anyone rezzing someone else might be an icebreaker, or it could be cross profession combos, or someone saving someone else. Developers are seeing this kind of socializing behavior just in playtesting, or even a little bit in half hour demos where people are guaranteed to never play together again.
People need to stop looking at this like it didn't happen in another game. GW2 is trying to remove ALL barriers to socializing. If certain people are adamant about being anti-social, that's fine, they can and still be around other people. But other people are going to warm up to being social if for no other reason than there's absolutely no reason not to be.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I just have to comment on the whole griefing thing I see constantly touted about this game. I know that Anet is trying their hardest to make this a grief-free game. But it is naive to believe that GW2 will be "devoid of griefing" as someone earlier put it.
There will always be a way to piss in someone's corn flakes in these types of games. No matter how hard a dev tries. Where there's a will there's a way. I'm just being a realist here. GW2 will have its own style of griefing when it comes out. Whether you put up with it or not is up to you. But don't think for a minute that this game is gonna be some magical grief free land where everyone is farting rainbows. Its just human nature. Its part of social play. You can look at it as a fact of humanity or the antichrist it doesn't matter.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
As it stands, all commonplace forms of griefing in MMO's have been addressed. Devising a way around Arena Net's current system with some contrived method of griefing seems like it would burden the griefers more than it would the players. I can not think of any way to abuse the system to the infuriation of another player outside of verbal abuse, and that's solved with an ignore feature. This is emphasized by the fact that in the early iterations of game elements in Guild Wars 2, like dynamic events, the developers have said that they looked at it and asked "How could this possibly be griefed?" If they find a way, they either fix it or remove it from the game entirely.
As an aside, based on what cali59 has said as well... reducing that opportunity to be griefed, will in of itself increase the socializing of some players.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
After reading this thread I have to wonder if the meaning of 'socializing' has changed....
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
No it really boils down to long term commitment in building a community. There's no reason to if a game is approached as a pick up and play, or stop at any time type of game. What purpose does an overarching community serve is the real question? What are they building toward?
For one GW2 seems a little too fast paced for full on text based social interaction while in combat. Most strategy will be handled on TS, I'm sure of that with the average nature of active combat. Which automatically puts players out of the game on a communication level.
Second since the overall focus of this franchise is squad based PVP that's where many in the community will gravitate, putting the usual carebear vs Leetsauce wedge between themselves and PVE players (that's inevitable).
Right there are two strikes against an overreaching community.
Drop in drop out PVE objectives (DE'S) is partially a third, considering the other two issues especially the former (VEnt, TS). Then we have the ability to teleport which makes up the second half of the third, as it removes the world from the equation. That's three strikes that I can count and we know what that usually means.
I really don't see that element in this game that is supposed to draw all of these players together, considering all they have to push them apart; as well as alleviates the need to reach out for help through a want or need to .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"Devoid of griefing" sounds like something I would say, though I try to back away from that and say "make it as griefless as possible."
We know that DEs are designed so that nobody can make it fail. If someone can, they fix or scrap the event.
There's no kill stealing, mob tagging, ninja looting or node stealing. Nobody can start a quest without you. I think the majority of the reasons someone would be pissed off at someone else are taken care of.
Beyond that though, I think the mechanics of the game just don't lend themselves to griefing. Like sure, someone could probably dump mobs onto you, but there's no penalty for death as long as someone rezzes you. Even being defeated is only a minor cost if you can't get a rez.
Still, there might be people who are determined to make your life miserable but it seems easy to deal with. There's instant teleportation for low cost to any waypoint you've been to before. With automentoring, the game lets you replay any zone or DE that's equal or lower level than you. DEs give generic rewards so you never have to do any particular one. If someone is giving you a hard time, you can just teleport away and take part in any other event you see.
If a griefer can't get a reaction out of their intended victim, why bother griefing at all?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Exactly that part was what made me doubt the system.... If people don't have to talk to work together, most of them will not... You can feel very lonely surrounded by a lot of people
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
There are all sorts of people that I don't want to group with, and probably a fair share that don't want to group with me. With GW2, we can both fight the same battle, on the same side, and otherwise don't have to put up with each other. I would much rather have that, then be forced to group up with people I don't like just to play a game.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
You make it sound like GW2 is a wow clone because that is exactly what people do in wow.
GW2 Fans are so delusional.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I have the same practice as you, i group to find friends. But i work at it in a different sense. If the other person actually wants to be friends and replies to my tell then i add them otherwise i don't bother because being in hundreds of heroic dungeons in WoW you often end up with douchebags who would rather just spit on you then talk to you. So i've learned to only respond to kindness, if some idiots come along and want to cause trouble the almighty ignore oblivion is where they end up. The design of the game has no baring [sic] on how the social aspects occur in the game. That's the same as saying as the devil made me do it, it's relieving all responsibility from the community for how the community is.
Edit: i hate the forum system on this site, whoever thought of disabling the computer's own word for word spellcheck....weird.
Who is talking about an overarching community? I'm talking about the game removing the barriers from random people in the open world being able to play together and possibly initiate conversations. If absolutely nothing else, one thing people could be working towards is doing dungeons. The explorable mode of dungeons is supposed to be very difficult. Being able to work together with others in the open world, see how they play (situational awareness, rezzing, combos) would get people who were interested in doing those dungeons setting up a network of contacts for a later time.
In the open world people will not be able to communicate via TS because they won't be know one another and won't be grouped. Communication will have to happen in the downtime between events. Considering how little communication takes place in the open world in traditional MMOs (outside of Barrens chat) pretty much anything is a step up.
Even IF the overall focus of the franchise was on squad based PVP, that would have nothing to do with the kind of small scale PVE communication I'm talking about. Besides, people can do structured PVP immediately upon finishing the tutorial, as their characters get immediately scaled up and access to all gear and skills when talking part. Hardcore players can do their thing and gravitate toward TS chat if they want, the rest of the players in the open world can hang out and do their thing.
Being able to drop in to DEs encourages working together because then people don't have to waste time trying to catch up like they do in a quest line. Being able to drop out is for convenience but the game incentivizes you to complete the event (different levels of rewards) and encourages you to stay for the next one (chaining). Teleportation can only take you to waypoints. People still need to run through the world to where the events are. Once out in the world, in an ad hoc band of players, the incentive will be to keep going with them rather than porting to a waypoint and then having to go find other events and other bands.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
ok, so that is the biggest stretch I've ever seen for calling a game a WoW clone. I fail to see you logic or your point.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
The overarching community is simply players reaching out to one another outside of the clicks they form.
WOW is simply another game in a sea of them, that fall under the topic of socially bankrupt games. Just about everything released since WOW has been. Which many would argue is the main problem with MMO's and how the genre lost track of what was most important, community building.
Second how did you miss I'm talking long term here, which makes the issue of no one knowing one another a moot point. I'm talking about where the social functionality of this game will go, and asking what is in place to ensure it doesn't go that route?
Drop in and drop out does no such thing, it simply removes the need to find help and be social.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Dude this is a VERY important subject ,one that not only relates to GW2 but all MMO's.
I have felt this very same opinion and i have mentioned it a few times.This type of grouping is imo not grouping at all and no it will not work as a well oiled machine.I believe part of the OP's point is that in normal type grouping you would stick together a while and make new friends from grouping.This type of grouping offers nothing to friendly chat or getting to know anyone.This will just be players running from event to event with really no care about anyone else what so ever.
I don't have the perfect answer to solve grouping,but i feel when players login online to play a MMO they should fully expect to be grouping and interacting with other players.This si not interacting,this is a superficial fake way to be in a group,this is really just a group header over players names.This is exactly like solo play but removes the "claim" tag from the mob and rewards everyone for the same kill steal.
I do know this much,i played FFXI and forced grouping DOES work and defined class roles DO work.When FFXI was still catered to that design the social was amazing, the community was amazing and i never had to see the kind of chat chanells i see in games now.SO bottom line is that it all works tremendously well if you have players that are there to play a mmorpg.
Part of the problem is "majority".i feel the majority want to solo,they don't want interaction or social and developers are catering to what makes more sales.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
My question:
If you have to force ppl to talk with each other in open world:
Is it the fault of the system or the ppl?
Edit
Imagine the following situation:
You go out to the park for a walk, you meet a bunch of unknown ppl
during your walk, also you meet some of your friends too.
Which case you are going to stop and start chatting?
Right?
Except you purposely want to have some new friends.
SexuaLobster's Grease Portal
Well this is exactly the reason people WILL group. The last mmo that I played seriously was WAR and they had grouping done perfectly in that game. People would group in open word events (aka public quests) all the time even though the rewards system didn't depend on grouping at all - just like in GW2. The great part of this was that you were never forced to group, but you did it because it's more fun that way and you can coordinate better and maybe stick together for another event or two.
If you wanted to play a silent lone guy in a crowd you could do that too and the game wouldn't penalize you in any way for doing it.
Ok, so there are formal grouping mechanics in GW2 as http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Party says but... there are few more questions I'd like to have answered..
Are there going to be open parties? That was a pretty revolutionary system introduced in WAR and it worked like a charm. You create a party and make it open if you wish. No more LFG's no more LFM's... You simply check for open parties in the area you're entering, choose the one that's appealing to you (maybe you know somebody or they're doing an event you're interested in...) and that's it - you're in a party going somewhere doing something.
The second question is whether there is going to be a second level of grouping, like WAR's Warbands or WoW Raids. Imo that's a crucial thing if you're trying to coordinate large groups of players like in epic DEs and WvW. I'm really curious to see how is this going to work in GW2. In open world PvP in WAR even the 24-member warbands felt too small and it would have been great if the devs introduced a THIRD grouping level - Armies or something comprising of several warbands so instead of individuals in army display you would see the health and position of GROUPS.
Any info on these questions, yo gurus?
Now imagine there is a big fire in that park.... as that is more in case with an MMO.... This would require you to communicate with the strangers... and you could fight the fire together...
Now would you start communicating with those people after the fire is killed ?
I think you would, and so by fighting the the fire together you made new friends, while you where not in the park with the purpose of making new friends...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)