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Is there a fourth dimension?

outfctrloutfctrl Member UncommonPosts: 3,619

I was doing some reading about this and some scientists say that time is the fourth dimension.

Then I read an article that says it isnt.


Radical Theory Claims that Time is Not the 4th Dimension

Maybe there isn't such thing as a 4th dimension?

Any future scientists here?

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Comments

  • DisdenaDisdena Member UncommonPosts: 1,093

    I've read a similar theory before, in Julian Barbour's "The End of Time". It's... a pretty difficult read to say the least.

    A model is only as good as its ability to explain and predict, and his model of the universe—which doesn't involve the passage of time—seems to explain and predict quantum mechanics better than models which involve time. There are quantum events that simply don't make a lick of sense if you look at them with the plain Newtonian model that most of us accept as reality in day-to-day life. However, this doesn't mean that there are only 3 dimensions. In fact, because there is no such thing as "absolute position", his theory basically states that in order to make any sense of the universe, you have to think of it as having as many dimensions as there particles in the universe. Squared.

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  • Cactus-ManCactus-Man Member Posts: 572

    I am going to say no I don't think time exists, not as an independent force any way.

    Our perception of time is entirely relative to physical change, that is one point in space or state of being relative to another.  And movement is also expressable as other physical traits, like velocity, frequency etc.  So I don't think time is part of the universe, it is just a concept we use to help us understand the change that we see and relate events.

    All men think they're fascinating. In my case, it's justified

  • ScalebaneScalebane Member UncommonPosts: 1,883

    hmm i'll have to look it up but i thought i read about them showing a possibility up to the 11th dimension...

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    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • AelfinnAelfinn Member Posts: 3,857

    Depending on who you ask, the number of physical dimensions we currently reside in is anywhere between 3 and an infinite number. Just because we are only able to directly percieve 3  of them doesn't mean there are not more.

    From there, its mainly a matter of defining what can and can not be considered a dimension, and attempting to find new ways to percieve the universe.

    For example, the wierdness that is gravitational forces could be considered a unique physical dimension (the very fabric of space appears to literally bend around objects with high mass), as can the property that causes certain particles to exist only at the speed of light (photons, neutrinos, etc.)

    Speaking specifiically of time, our perception of it is another aspect that is hotly debated. If one considers it to be an integral force or aspect of the universe, one can call it a dimension. However, it is not entirely incorrect to consider time to simply be an illusion.

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
    Hemingway

  • bezadobezado Member UncommonPosts: 1,127

    I say yes. Based on what I read and watched on various science channel pieces. Also ever notice how cats just seem to be watching things in thin air, my cat looks at stuff just stares out into nothing and they must be able to see that dimension. We can't but they can.

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035

    The 4th dimension is a measure of distance between an object's origin point, to where it would currently be if using 'time' as a measure.

    point > line > structure > motion

    The 5th is probability, then it gets 'philosophical' (read: quantum).

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  • outfctrloutfctrl Member UncommonPosts: 3,619

    Well, maybe time is another dimension, the fourth.  We have already been able to minipulate it, to some extent.

    The CERN research institute near Geneva said measurements over three years had shown neutrinos pumped to a receiver in Gran Sasso, Italy, had arrived an average of 60 nanoseconds sooner than light would have done -- a tiny difference that could nonetheless undermine Albert Einstein's 1905 special theory of relativity.

     

    Link

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  • Silverthorn8Silverthorn8 Member UncommonPosts: 510

    Originally posted by bezado

    I say yes. Based on what I read and watched on various science channel pieces. Also ever notice how cats just seem to be watching things in thin air, my cat looks at stuff just stares out into nothing and they must be able to see that dimension. We can't but they can.

     

    Felines are way more advanced than us monkeys, so advanced in fact that they just pretend to be fucking stupid most of the time. Much like some of the idiots I work with.!......Well maybe!

    A dimension is merely a vector...i.e a line! So yes, there is a fourth fifth sixth and so on. reality is essentially a sham, no one is meant to understand it. No one! Not even "GOD".

  • BarbarbarBarbarbar Member UncommonPosts: 271

    Physics atm, is so theoretical, and the theory explains the universe so poorly, that just about every university with any selfrespect has a theory of it's own.

    For example, todays physics, when put to the table, get a result only 4% of that which they can see and measure. The remaining 96% of the universe is made up stuff to make the equations match.

    Another example. Big Bang theory doesn't give correct answers. It can't explain why stars and systems so far apart from each other in the universe as they can be, are related as if they are interacting, or have been interacting. So at 388.000 years after Big Bang, Universe went into a phase called "Inflation". In this period the laws of the nature suddenly changed, speed of light wasn't a constant and all kinds of sci fi mumbo jumbo. Then it became "normal" again.

    Why? Because then the math they got right now produce the correct answer...

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586

    Off on a tangent here but LA Marzulli was on Coast to Coast AM talking about this.

    http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2011/10/30

    Joining host John B. Wells (email), author and researcher L.A. Marzulli discussed the signs that an unseen heavenly war being fought in another dimension is about to spill over into our dimension.

     

    Weird shit...

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • outfctrloutfctrl Member UncommonPosts: 3,619

    Originally posted by Briansho

    Off on a tangent here but LA Marzulli was on Coast to Coast AM talking about this.

    http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2011/10/30

    Joining host John B. Wells (email), author and researcher L.A. Marzulli discussed the signs that an unseen heavenly war being fought in another dimension is about to spill over into our dimension.

     

    Weird shit...

    I swear Brian, as long as I have known you through these forums, you come up with and sometimes say the weirdest shit.

    LOL

    You always crack me up

    image

  • Silverthorn8Silverthorn8 Member UncommonPosts: 510

    Originally posted by outfctrl

    Originally posted by Briansho

    Off on a tangent here but LA Marzulli was on Coast to Coast AM talking about this.

    http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2011/10/30

    Joining host John B. Wells (email), author and researcher L.A. Marzulli discussed the signs that an unseen heavenly war being fought in another dimension is about to spill over into our dimension.

     

    Weird shit...

    I swear Brian, as long as I have known you through these forums, you come up with and sometimes say the weirdest shit.

    LOL

    You always crack me up

    What proof do you have that they are wrong???

    Insanity and delusion are merely mental states, as are clarity and lucidity!

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586

    Originally posted by outfctrl

    Originally posted by Briansho

    Off on a tangent here but LA Marzulli was on Coast to Coast AM talking about this.

    http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2011/10/30

    Joining host John B. Wells (email), author and researcher L.A. Marzulli discussed the signs that an unseen heavenly war being fought in another dimension is about to spill over into our dimension.

     

    Weird shit...

    I swear Brian, as long as I have known you through these forums, you come up with and sometimes say the weirdest shit.

    LOL

    You always crack me up

    Hah thanks!

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • outfctrloutfctrl Member UncommonPosts: 3,619

    Originally posted by Silverthorn8

    Originally posted by outfctrl


    Originally posted by Briansho

    Off on a tangent here but LA Marzulli was on Coast to Coast AM talking about this.

    http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2011/10/30

    Joining host John B. Wells (email), author and researcher L.A. Marzulli discussed the signs that an unseen heavenly war being fought in another dimension is about to spill over into our dimension.

     

    Weird shit...

    I swear Brian, as long as I have known you through these forums, you come up with and sometimes say the weirdest shit.

    LOL

    You always crack me up

    What proof do you have that they are wrong???

    Insanity and delusion are merely mental states, as are clarity and lucidity!

    I am not saying he is wrong.  It could be true.  You never know.  Leave it to him to find it, though.

    LOL

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  • Silverthorn8Silverthorn8 Member UncommonPosts: 510

    According to the Canadian rock band Rush "time is a spiral, space is a curve..........." (Think it's on the Roll the bones album).

  • wowclonewowclone Member Posts: 36

    Time isn't a 4th dimension.  Movement through the first 3 dimensions doesn't effect matter the same way time affects matter.  Movement through 3 dimensions doesn't even effect matter at all outside the lightcone.  Movement through time, one could say, effects the entire universe.  Time being a 4th dimension is a silly concept.

    Wut?

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