The number one concern I have about GW2 is longevity, and I've yet to hear anything from Anet or from any forum poster explaining to me how GW2 will retain players over a long period of time given how the game deemphasizes the grind, which is really what keeps people playing these games to begin with.
I believe that replayability is the key to longevity in GW2.
The first thing is that dynamic events don't run all the time. So there's replayability in visiting the zones just from the possibility of seeing new things. We also know they'll be adding new DEs for free from launch which would also improve replayability.
We don't know how much overlap will be in rolling new characters, but it's at least possible there might not be much. The zones look huge. Each race has its own starting zone, and while it's unclear how they're going to progress, if there's low, medium and high ranges for every race, that offers several leveling paths. The zones also appear huge. People might be able to progress through them without seeing all they have to offer. Even the cities are huge. One person spent his demo time just running around the human capital city and didn't even see it all. There's at least 8 teleportation waypoints in the city alone.
The personal story has a lot of replayability. The personal story isn't enough to level a person by itself, but there's probably enough choices in each race's story to be able to play it 3x apiece without much overlap.
A player could also level entirely in WvWvW PVP and take part in that at any time so that adds an entire other leveling option. In addition, areas around the open world have these hearts that people can fill up by doing tasks. If the game is anything like GW1, completionists will be working on achievements forever. There's also traits and hidden events to find in the world.
Based on the idea of building up to a max of 90 minutes to level and 80 levels, I estimated once that that would mean about 100 hours to level to cap. It's a pretty terrible estimate to make, but if we halfass it and just say 5 races * 100 hours to cap, that would be 6 months of content at 20 hours per week. Obviously that would assume that the content is unique for each playthrough. It probably won't be completely, but hopefully I've shown there's a lot of cause to believe there will be a lot of content. I remember one video where Colin Johanson said he didn't know how many hundreds of hours of content there was in their demo, and the demo was only a small part of their entire game.
In GW1 their plan was to have expansions every 6 months. Factions slipped to a year, but Nightfall was right on schedule at 6 months. It had 30+ zones, 20 PVE missions, 5 PVP missions, 200+ quests, 2 new classes and new mechanics. That's like 5 zones and 3 PVE missions per month. While it's true that ArenaNet wants to get away from the 6 month schedule because they thought it to be too limiting, I bring this up to show that they're definitely capable of putting out expansion content at a pace which would rival what anybody else is doing. Even if people run out of content, they can always just pick the game up again when an expansion comes out, it's not like there's a subscription.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Because the orignal Guild Wars was a fantastic game to millions. So we all have faith in ArenaNet to make a great Guild Wars 2.
Anyone who's been around MMO's for any amount of time should know why this statement really means nothing at all.
Really because Bioware made good games before so all the Bioware fans are exptecting a good TOR mmo. Back to the TOR forums troll!
That was a serious statement, what TOR fans think is irrelevant. Besides going on MMO history BIoware has a better shot at being successful. Even then what Bioware has done in the past means nothing to me, if anything I think Bioware sucks at making good game-play. ANyway..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Why dont you guys compare those sandboxes with another sandboxes? Theme parks and sandboxes reach to different demographics
Originally posted by skulljoe
Cause every mmo suck nowadays and GW2 bring solutions that i already had in mind.
Maybe you should take your own advice.
Seriously dude. When i say "every mmo suck", i dont even think about sandboxes. Im not on their demographics and thats why i think they naturally suck.
Been skimming through the thread and I find it so pathetic how people are constantly refered to as "fanboys", just because they are biased towards a paticular product. Why are we, the well informed GW2 follwers, not allowed to say shower GW2 with praise, when it is on it's track to be something we may actually fully enjoyed.
Like me. I'm currently playing Rift and while I enjoy some aspects of it (enough to max out 4 separate characters), there are a lot of things that just piss me off and GW2 seems to be the only game that's fixing those issues. Like not being able to play with a friend who's on a different quest step, or the PvP being unbalanced & unplayable with my Rank 2 Cleric. I just can't shower SW:TOR with praise, because even though it will be a game I'd enjoy (just like Rift), it's still riddled with the same issues I have with Rift. So I guess I'll be refered to as a "GW2 Fanboy" because I can't name a feature I don't like about the game... yet.
I don't have faith in this game. I'll see how it pans out, but I don't feel the hype.
Classless system = zerg combat. That is the impression I get from the videos fighting large world bosses. There is a whole lot of spamming going on. I ahve already been told by countless people who tactical it is..... but I prefer defined roles and the team sense that you develop in a group. I have made countless friends in mmos based on grouping and my ability to perform my role.
Dynamic events seem real cool and I don't object to them. The only thing is they are cool the first time much like doing a quest. After the first time, it is like doing a quest over again. Who wants to do that? Village so and so is under attack again for the umpteenth time this week!!!! Who cares? Even if it affects what vendor I can use or has a small negative impact on the community as a whole, the only people that will care are those it affects directly. I have a feeling that a lot of people will run right by after doing it the first time. Just look at Rift or War.
Easy leveling curve. Why even have it? The point of a level is to gauge how strong your character is. Most people like to feel like they accomplished something when they gain a level...not just push through some short phase. Sure a lot of people power level through to the top, but for those that don't, there is often a sense of gain with each level or milestone. The same people that complain about WoW and how easy the leveling has become are a lot of the same people who tout a system where levels are basically handed out. I am not saying grinding is good, but why hand out levels at all if they are basically meaningless?
With over 1500 dynamic events you get a diffrent taste with each diffrent event.
Its a 180 degrees change of the (Kill 10 Rabbits) quests wich is lame and zombie style.
If you cant see what Arenanet is doing then i dont know what to say to all those people who bash GW2.
Your either blind or just hate fantasy mmo's....
Check the facts and compare them to lets say SWTOR who is also about to get released.
While SWTOR copyd Blizzards WoW in ALOT of ways and also admitted by Bioware's producers with no shame -_-
I am staggered how many people are praising SW in this timeframe of bad mmo's we all had the last years.
What i dont understand is why create a WoW 2 in a starwars universe and not created a Eve / Starwars IP with all the goodies they can come up with.
Man that would have been something special !
Eve combined with Starwars universe i would kill for someting like that, but instead we get a cartoon looking voice acting single player storytelling mmo with dull battlegrounds and slow paced combat.
Yes i am very disapointing with Bioware with wat i saw from all the footage...
Maybe i expected a Next Gen MMO or something from, them and not a puked out WoW based mmo in space with the name STARWARS
I don't have faith in this game. I'll see how it pans out, but I don't feel the hype.
Classless system = zerg combat. That is the impression I get from the videos fighting large world bosses. There is a whole lot of spamming going on. I ahve already been told by countless people who tactical it is..... but I prefer defined roles and the team sense that you develop in a group. I have made countless friends in mmos based on grouping and my ability to perform my role.
Dynamic events seem real cool and I don't object to them. The only thing is they are cool the first time much like doing a quest. After the first time, it is like doing a quest over again. Who wants to do that? Village so and so is under attack again for the umpteenth time this week!!!! Who cares? Even if it affects what vendor I can use or has a small negative impact on the community as a whole, the only people that will care are those it affects directly. I have a feeling that a lot of people will run right by after doing it the first time. Just look at Rift or War.
Easy leveling curve. Why even have it? The point of a level is to gauge how strong your character is. Most people like to feel like they accomplished something when they gain a level...not just push through some short phase. Sure a lot of people power level through to the top, but for those that don't, there is often a sense of gain with each level or milestone. The same people that complain about WoW and how easy the leveling has become are a lot of the same people who tout a system where levels are basically handed out. I am not saying grinding is good, but why hand out levels at all if they are basically meaningless?
I think that you dont fully understand the systems in gw2.. you seem somewhat informed however each class does have a role, and even thoe a warrior can play a ranged bowman, does not make the game classless. also the roles instead of tank/heal/dps are dps/support/controll.. basicly the took out the b/s and added more fun in a newly designed trinity
I can see where you are coming from with this, however they are going to swich out dynamic events, and considering some events chain off 15 times its nothing like quests. because those centaurs taking over that village, and succeed but get pushed out again. does not mean that they will just come back and try and take it again. so literaly when you walk threw the game your 1st time and go back to say queensdale, you most likely will see a diferent zone setup because of intersecting events. not to mention arena net also realeased news that they will be continuesly creating new events and patching them into guild wars 2. which means its possible you will go threw 4 times and not see the same exact event unless your standing there for DAYS, or weeks even.
This is where i think your completely off base man. there is a much easier leveling curve installed into guild wars on the fact that say after 40 you wont have to spend 60 days trying to get that 1 level (complete exaduration of course). basicly you will level normaly threw just like other mmo's but the curve comes with the eventual plateu. While they didnt anounce the exact level yet, they did use level 40 as an example. so say you hit 40 and it takes your 4 hours to hit level 41, the new curve or 'plateu effect' kicks in so that when you go to level from 41 to 42, it should also take you around 4 hours to do so. so they are not actualy handing out levles. They are just leveling the playing field so that by the time your in the 50's you dont feal like bashing your own face in with a hammer while trying to squeeze out that little bit of exp needed to level. (with all things aside i hope arena net pulls off the level of fun that you wouldent want to do that anyway, but having that extra line of defence to not want to mutilate something due to game mechanix is alwayes a + in my book)
Anyway i hope you see this so you can understand a little bit better.
I don't have faith in this game. I'll see how it pans out, but I don't feel the hype.
Classless system = zerg combat. That is the impression I get from the videos fighting large world bosses. There is a whole lot of spamming going on. I ahve already been told by countless people who tactical it is..... but I prefer defined roles and the team sense that you develop in a group. I have made countless friends in mmos based on grouping and my ability to perform my role.
Dynamic events seem real cool and I don't object to them. The only thing is they are cool the first time much like doing a quest. After the first time, it is like doing a quest over again. Who wants to do that? Village so and so is under attack again for the umpteenth time this week!!!! Who cares? Even if it affects what vendor I can use or has a small negative impact on the community as a whole, the only people that will care are those it affects directly. I have a feeling that a lot of people will run right by after doing it the first time. Just look at Rift or War.
Easy leveling curve. Why even have it? The point of a level is to gauge how strong your character is. Most people like to feel like they accomplished something when they gain a level...not just push through some short phase. Sure a lot of people power level through to the top, but for those that don't, there is often a sense of gain with each level or milestone. The same people that complain about WoW and how easy the leveling has become are a lot of the same people who tout a system where levels are basically handed out. I am not saying grinding is good, but why hand out levels at all if they are basically meaningless?
What you call a classless system, I call experiencing difficult content that isn't exactly the same everytime you run it (e.g. Tank pulls boss to the corner and everytime it emotes everyone hide behind the pillar). Where all the responsibility is spread out amongst the group, instead of on the Tank & Healer, whilst everyone else just has to not stand in the crap. I actually enjoy playing a healer and I'm actually proud of my healing skills, but I still see flaws in the current system (look at my sig ).
I don't really care about your opinion on DEs, because only time will tell how they pan out. But as for the levelling curve (or lack of one), I think it's a good idea. Power levellers will power level, no matter what, so why impede on the progress of those that don't wish to power level? If someone is only able to play for an hour or 2 a night, then why shouldn't they feel that they accomplished something, by increasing their level? Also the fact that GW2 has no Open-World quest, just means that people will spend more time exploring the open world looking for Events, rather than going on auto-pilot grinding quest/mobs.
Well the game is obviously not aimed towards you, so there's no reason for you to be excited for it. But there are reasons for others to be.
I have some faith in the game because for the first time in a long time, it's clear that a development company "gets it". Based on everything I've heard and read about the game, it's very clear that ArenaNet understands the genre in a way that very few companies ever do. They recognize, in a very fundamental way, the promise and potential the genre had when it started...and their philosophy is very clearly reflected in their design. They are re-examining the fundamental elements and coming up with very different, innovative solutions to old problems, rather than just copying a formula for a single past successful game.
Most MMORPG developers in the last 6 years have really shown themselves to be completely clueless about what really makes these games work. They just try to copy features or systems straight out of past games, mash them together based on the current conventional wisdom, add a few twists or marketing gimmicks, and release a game. Time and again, we're seeing a "new normal" of MMORPGs that can't even maintain their subscription numbers for more than a few months, let alone grow their player base over time. The bar is set extremely low now...companies are shooting for mass success and gaining only very niche subscription numbers.
The contrast between ArenaNet and all other developers is pretty dramatic. Try to take a close look at the underlying philosophy behind GW2's design in the context of the genre's history, and how effectively they are realizing that philosophy with the mechanics and systems, and I think you'll have a hard time NOT being a little excited about the prospect of this game. It's very likely going to be one of those games that is much greater than the sum of its parts...because of that overall understanding of what this genre is, and what it could be.
Its easier to get down with GW2 becuase of the IP. There are no expectations on previous games other than GW1, and GW2 is doing everything that GW had and more.
Also becuase GW2 is its own IP, it does not have people from SWG for example who do not like swtor.
Also there is no sub fee.
And the fact it has nice mmo mechanics, but lacking some sand box features which seems not to bother those who like GW2.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
dunno for me GW failed to hook me as besides guild vs guild pvp there was nothing to keep you playing, it was like playing starcraft just with avatars trying to look like an mmo (for me). on top the combat system tho super balanced was boring as hell.
this are 2 key elements they basicaly failed totally with GW1 at least for me. it's to be seen if they suddently will turn 180° and can make what they couldn't back then. i totally think ANET are super talented and a very decent dev team but i for one am not sold to that they know what it takes to make a good mmo as of now.
basically i do not understand all the trust as well
GW1 wasn't an MMO, but Anet weren't trying to create an MMO when they made it and they weren't promoting it as being an MMO either. GW2 however is an actual MMO and is very different from GW1. They have already shown and let people play the game multiple times so what they're saying aren't just empty words.
Originally posted by vistakah
When my first true love came to pass (DAOC) i played ever title out there hoping for a NEW love of a game. I dreamed like many that Warhammer was going to be DAOC 2.0. What a dissappointment. I played the Original series of Guild Wars titles and never found the same game energy namely because it was an all instanced game. I also thought the combat mechanics were inferior. Having those pick your own AI friends was boring as well.
I've tried over 90% of all the MMORPGs released in the past 10 years and I don't even think Guild Wars 2 can bring back the feel for us who played first generation PVP based MMORPGS. Games used to be made up by mature adults as players and now thanks to WoW and alot of irresponsible parents to pay for there kids game subscriptions( electronic babysitters) its dominated by alot of fat kids who never leave the house, exercise or what not lol.
With that being said i can only hope that GW2 rolls into a more non instanced open world MMORPG where PVP is its primary focus. If it has battlegrounds or anything thats instance and team based like WoW i won't waste a dime. I never liked the PVP instances in the original Guild Wars. Lets hope this game is the next generation of PVP based MMO's. I am not going to get too excited about it until after its released and some stellar reviews start popping up.
There is no actual open world PvP however WvWvW takes place in a big persistent area (although seperate from PvE) where 3 servers fight in 2 week long battles with all sorts of different goals such as taking over mines and protecting caravans, guilds can also take over, hold and upgrade keeps there. It's also going to be massive (as in hundreds of players).
Yeah i hear what you are saying but i think it is open world PVP.
1. It's not instanced but persistent.
2. A zone is open to all players and is in the real game world just like the myst.
3. Anyone can enter that zone at any level.
So WvWvW is not instanced,we can agree on that and it happens in an open zone.
Heck ill let the dev tell it like it is.
“The other thing that I think is important and this is not a direct answer, but we have World vs. World PvP in Guild Wars 2. I think that will impact PvE as well. Which is your server shard matched up against two other servers in open world PvP. If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that. It is something that really drove community and you care about what you are doing on a PVE and PvP side. You care about the people on the server. We think we will have those bonds because your server is matched up against two other servers. So it is just that much more important that you become friends and you bond with the players on your server. So the friends you make through PvE and Dynamic Events, those friends will carry over into World vs. World PvP. You may get out of World vs. World PvP and go back to early zones to do events with new people and help encourage them to join you in the fight for your server to take part in battles and beat the other two. We expect large strong communities on each server and I think PvP will end up affecting PvE because people will work together.” -Colin Johanson (Lead Content Designer)
“Each opposing world starts out with castles, mercenary camps, mines, lumber mills and villages. Separating the starting zones are neutral zones controlled by no one, also containing fortresses, mines, and villages.
The resources gained from mines and lumber mills are used to rebuild walls, create siege engines, and generally defend the team’s fortress.
These territories and control points will confer benefits to the world that controls them; “maybe everyone gets increased energy regeneration or healing rate or enhanced loot drop rate.” Players can gain experience and level their character in World PvP. Guilds will be able to take and hold keeps.“
There is no actual open world PvP however WvWvW takes place in a big persistent area (although seperate from PvE) where 3 servers fight in 2 week long battles with all sorts of different goals such as taking over mines and protecting caravans, guilds can also take over, hold and upgrade keeps there. It's also going to be massive (as in hundreds of players).
Yeah i hear what you are saying but i think it is open world PVP.
Well, it comes down to semantics, most people only call pvp 'open world pvp' if it takes place in the PvE world, which is not the case in GW2.
There is no actual open world PvP however WvWvW takes place in a big persistent area (although seperate from PvE) where 3 servers fight in 2 week long battles with all sorts of different goals such as taking over mines and protecting caravans, guilds can also take over, hold and upgrade keeps there. It's also going to be massive (as in hundreds of players).
Yeah i hear what you are saying but i think it is open world PVP.
Well, it comes down to semantics, most people only call pvp 'open world pvp' if it takes place in the PvE world, which is not the case in GW2.
Yeah it does come down to semantics to be fair. The other thing is we really don't know much about the WvWvW pvp part of the game. For some reason i think they have had a rethink on how they were going to perfect the system,something tells me we are going to be blown out of the water.
How about a couple of persistent Darkness Falls type dungeons with entrances on each server,they say they got the idea from DAOC.
The things they're doing with the game seem like the things that MMO players have been wanting for years. Like replacing the quests with dynamic events. But it seems to be done in a way that actually works.
That's the thing that I think gets under peoples skin a bit. If a lot of their decisions (like no mounts, insta teleporting etc) were being shown off by someone else there would be a crap ton of complaints about it. If anyone else was presenting DE's ( public quests) as their overall major PVe feature, you'd hear a lot about how it's just going to be a huge zerg etc.. No true social aspects yada yada yada. A prime example is segregated PVP and BG's, FC/TSW is getting a crap ton of crap for that right now on it's forum.
The fact of the matter is every game gets a whole lot of flak they really don't deserve, GW2 isn't, at least to the extent everyone else is.
Actually, I can explain this! It's really easy.
Are you ready? Ready for the BIG SECRET? Why fans of GW2 aren't annoyed by the design decisions?
When they rolled out the GW2 information, it went a lot like this 'We're going to have teleporting and dynamic events and world vs. world, but no open world PvP, and this is what our features are going to be like. Like instanced PvP matches. Also fast leveling. ... and no holy trinity. Also, single faction."
Most of these features in GW2? Fans have known about them FOREVER. Longer than they've known about any of the classes, or before a single gameplay video was ever released. People are fans of the game because that's what they were LOOKING for. People looked at what they were offering for gameplay and design decisions, decided if they liked enough of it, and if they did.... that's how they decided to be fans.
It doesn't hurt that a lot of the design decisions (Like easy to get max equipment, teleporting everywhere, trivial leveling, a deck-building style skill system) are familiar from GW1, so those people who wanted a game sort of like GW1 but actually an MMORPG were well served, and kind of knew what to expect).
Let's use your example of TSW. Why did most people become fans of it? Because it had a bitchin' CGI cinematic trailer.
... that's it. People didn't really know what TSW was. Lots of design decisions (Like the specific type of PvP) were complete mysteries, and therefore it was left to the imaginations and hopes of the fans.
That's... not really a good way to keep people happy with your product. Because let me tell you, my imagination is super awesome, and reality is BOUND to disappoint.
At least with GW2, I knew what I would be getting, coming into it. Sure, it'd design decisions some people don't like... but that's why they're not huge fans of GW2. THe closer what they're offering (... and a lot of it is design decisions, so not really spectacularly 'ohh, they're promising the world'... stuff like 'single faction' and 'lots of teleporting locations' are hardly rocket science) is to a person's ideals, the more of a fan somebody is likely to be.
Of course, the backlash happens if they end up NOT living up to their promises. Like the immense amounts of rage you'll hear if WvWvW involves 5 v 5 v 5 matches, laggy graphics and crappy gameplay. ... but until that happens (... and the demos so far shows they seem to have a pretty good track record on delivering the particular design things they're offering), fandom is relatively happy on average.
The lesson here? Explain what you're offering early and often. Oh, and it helps if you're sort of like your predecessor (There are people who are mad at GW2 for not being enough like GW1, but they're not SUPER common. Compare how many people are mad at SW:tOR for not being like SWG. THe problems with franchises!)
I would blindly buy any game by ANET - I dont care what the game is about
(I used to feel the same way about Blizzard but not anymore)
but thats my personal choice
and I do NOT preach GW2 as the next best thing since sliced bread
I really dont care if other players like GW2 or not, everyone has different tastes,
but I'll be having fun
Well honestly...... it's not blind trust. Anet has shown everything they've said will be in, and shown it working. We aren't talking about a few dev interviews and flashy cinematics to promote the game. The devs have shown live demo's at numerous conventions, let players play and give their own impressions.
All that really remains to be seen for me is how well the servers handle it. I would pretty much only use faith here, but even thats a stretch because Anet has already given us GW1, they aren't new to this. I doubt they will have a great deal of issue setting up the servers.
I would blindly buy any game by ANET - I dont care what the game is about
(I used to feel the same way about Blizzard but not anymore)
but thats my personal choice
and I do NOT preach GW2 as the next best thing since sliced bread
I really dont care if other players like GW2 or not, everyone has different tastes,
but I'll be having fun
Well honestly...... it's not blind trust. Anet has shown everything they've said will be in, and shown it working. We aren't talking about a few dev interviews and flashy cinematics to promote the game. The devs have shown live demo's at numerous conventions, let players play and give their own impressions.
All that really remains to be seen for me is how well the servers handle it. I would pretty much only use faith here, but even thats a stretch because Anet has already given us GW1, they aren't new to this. I doubt they will have a great deal of issue setting up the servers.
Honestly, this is my biggest worry with the game. I appreciate all the features, the dodge mechanics, etc... All fine and good.
But GW1 was touted as the next breath of fresh air when it was released. Many people were parading it around like the innovation that would change the genre. I was one of the people that bought it when it came out. I uninstalled it in less than a week. Boring gameplay. Everything instanced. It felt like a 2D game with 3D graphics. Your character just kind of floated in the air when casting spells and the melee animations didn't seem to relay any impact. I couldn't get into the story at all. In fact, I didn't understand the quick changes in time and how it was supposed to relate to me. One second the grawl attack, the next I'm 20 years into the future and the Grawl have overrun the place.
I understand that a lot of people liked the game. I'm just not one of them. I will probably try out GW2 when it comes out, but I am keeping my expectations much lower this time.
As a side note - trust me, the gameplay videos looked great for GW1, too, so I wouldn't start basing my opinion of that.
EDIT - I should add that I tried playing GW1 a few times, not just when it came out. Last time was sometime last winter. Same result. Just couldn't get into it. It's like a girl who everyone tells you is so hot, but she just doesn't do it for you.
This game was nowhere near on my radar because I did not like GW1. I fell for their manifesto (click this) hook, line and sinker. Since then I've become a fan of ArenaNet.
We're all rooting for them to pull this off.
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I think the phrase "having faith" in a game is a bit too strong.
The reason I'm looking up to GW2 isn't because it'll revolutionize the genre, or be the second coming or anything like that. The reason is just because I like MMORPGs, and out of all the upcoming ones, this is the one that looks (to me) like it'll be most fun from what I've seen and read, nothing more, nothing else. Also, being in Venezuela where paying for things online can be a chore, and without much time to game (work, wife, baby, and going back to college) having no monthly fee is a big plus (again, to me).
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Anyone who's been around MMO's for any amount of time should know why this statement really means nothing at all.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I believe that replayability is the key to longevity in GW2.
The first thing is that dynamic events don't run all the time. So there's replayability in visiting the zones just from the possibility of seeing new things. We also know they'll be adding new DEs for free from launch which would also improve replayability.
We don't know how much overlap will be in rolling new characters, but it's at least possible there might not be much. The zones look huge. Each race has its own starting zone, and while it's unclear how they're going to progress, if there's low, medium and high ranges for every race, that offers several leveling paths. The zones also appear huge. People might be able to progress through them without seeing all they have to offer. Even the cities are huge. One person spent his demo time just running around the human capital city and didn't even see it all. There's at least 8 teleportation waypoints in the city alone.
The personal story has a lot of replayability. The personal story isn't enough to level a person by itself, but there's probably enough choices in each race's story to be able to play it 3x apiece without much overlap.
A player could also level entirely in WvWvW PVP and take part in that at any time so that adds an entire other leveling option. In addition, areas around the open world have these hearts that people can fill up by doing tasks. If the game is anything like GW1, completionists will be working on achievements forever. There's also traits and hidden events to find in the world.
Based on the idea of building up to a max of 90 minutes to level and 80 levels, I estimated once that that would mean about 100 hours to level to cap. It's a pretty terrible estimate to make, but if we halfass it and just say 5 races * 100 hours to cap, that would be 6 months of content at 20 hours per week. Obviously that would assume that the content is unique for each playthrough. It probably won't be completely, but hopefully I've shown there's a lot of cause to believe there will be a lot of content. I remember one video where Colin Johanson said he didn't know how many hundreds of hours of content there was in their demo, and the demo was only a small part of their entire game.
In GW1 their plan was to have expansions every 6 months. Factions slipped to a year, but Nightfall was right on schedule at 6 months. It had 30+ zones, 20 PVE missions, 5 PVP missions, 200+ quests, 2 new classes and new mechanics. That's like 5 zones and 3 PVE missions per month. While it's true that ArenaNet wants to get away from the 6 month schedule because they thought it to be too limiting, I bring this up to show that they're definitely capable of putting out expansion content at a pace which would rival what anybody else is doing. Even if people run out of content, they can always just pick the game up again when an expansion comes out, it's not like there's a subscription.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Really because Bioware made good games before so all the Bioware fans are exptecting a good TOR mmo. Back to the TOR forums troll!
That was a serious statement, what TOR fans think is irrelevant. Besides going on MMO history BIoware has a better shot at being successful. Even then what Bioware has done in the past means nothing to me, if anything I think Bioware sucks at making good game-play. ANyway..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Seriously dude. When i say "every mmo suck", i dont even think about sandboxes. Im not on their demographics and thats why i think they naturally suck.
Been skimming through the thread and I find it so pathetic how people are constantly refered to as "fanboys", just because they are biased towards a paticular product. Why are we, the well informed GW2 follwers, not allowed to say shower GW2 with praise, when it is on it's track to be something we may actually fully enjoyed.
Like me. I'm currently playing Rift and while I enjoy some aspects of it (enough to max out 4 separate characters), there are a lot of things that just piss me off and GW2 seems to be the only game that's fixing those issues. Like not being able to play with a friend who's on a different quest step, or the PvP being unbalanced & unplayable with my Rank 2 Cleric. I just can't shower SW:TOR with praise, because even though it will be a game I'd enjoy (just like Rift), it's still riddled with the same issues I have with Rift. So I guess I'll be refered to as a "GW2 Fanboy" because I can't name a feature I don't like about the game... yet.
I don't have faith in this game. I'll see how it pans out, but I don't feel the hype.
Classless system = zerg combat. That is the impression I get from the videos fighting large world bosses. There is a whole lot of spamming going on. I ahve already been told by countless people who tactical it is..... but I prefer defined roles and the team sense that you develop in a group. I have made countless friends in mmos based on grouping and my ability to perform my role.
Dynamic events seem real cool and I don't object to them. The only thing is they are cool the first time much like doing a quest. After the first time, it is like doing a quest over again. Who wants to do that? Village so and so is under attack again for the umpteenth time this week!!!! Who cares? Even if it affects what vendor I can use or has a small negative impact on the community as a whole, the only people that will care are those it affects directly. I have a feeling that a lot of people will run right by after doing it the first time. Just look at Rift or War.
Easy leveling curve. Why even have it? The point of a level is to gauge how strong your character is. Most people like to feel like they accomplished something when they gain a level...not just push through some short phase. Sure a lot of people power level through to the top, but for those that don't, there is often a sense of gain with each level or milestone. The same people that complain about WoW and how easy the leveling has become are a lot of the same people who tout a system where levels are basically handed out. I am not saying grinding is good, but why hand out levels at all if they are basically meaningless?
With over 1500 dynamic events you get a diffrent taste with each diffrent event.
Its a 180 degrees change of the (Kill 10 Rabbits) quests wich is lame and zombie style.
If you cant see what Arenanet is doing then i dont know what to say to all those people who bash GW2.
Your either blind or just hate fantasy mmo's....
Check the facts and compare them to lets say SWTOR who is also about to get released.
While SWTOR copyd Blizzards WoW in ALOT of ways and also admitted by Bioware's producers with no shame -_-
I am staggered how many people are praising SW in this timeframe of bad mmo's we all had the last years.
What i dont understand is why create a WoW 2 in a starwars universe and not created a Eve / Starwars IP with all the goodies they can come up with.
Man that would have been something special !
Eve combined with Starwars universe i would kill for someting like that, but instead we get a cartoon looking voice acting single player storytelling mmo with dull battlegrounds and slow paced combat.
Yes i am very disapointing with Bioware with wat i saw from all the footage...
Maybe i expected a Next Gen MMO or something from, them and not a puked out WoW based mmo in space with the name STARWARS
I think that you dont fully understand the systems in gw2.. you seem somewhat informed however each class does have a role, and even thoe a warrior can play a ranged bowman, does not make the game classless. also the roles instead of tank/heal/dps are dps/support/controll.. basicly the took out the b/s and added more fun in a newly designed trinity
I can see where you are coming from with this, however they are going to swich out dynamic events, and considering some events chain off 15 times its nothing like quests. because those centaurs taking over that village, and succeed but get pushed out again. does not mean that they will just come back and try and take it again. so literaly when you walk threw the game your 1st time and go back to say queensdale, you most likely will see a diferent zone setup because of intersecting events. not to mention arena net also realeased news that they will be continuesly creating new events and patching them into guild wars 2. which means its possible you will go threw 4 times and not see the same exact event unless your standing there for DAYS, or weeks even.
This is where i think your completely off base man. there is a much easier leveling curve installed into guild wars on the fact that say after 40 you wont have to spend 60 days trying to get that 1 level (complete exaduration of course). basicly you will level normaly threw just like other mmo's but the curve comes with the eventual plateu. While they didnt anounce the exact level yet, they did use level 40 as an example. so say you hit 40 and it takes your 4 hours to hit level 41, the new curve or 'plateu effect' kicks in so that when you go to level from 41 to 42, it should also take you around 4 hours to do so. so they are not actualy handing out levles. They are just leveling the playing field so that by the time your in the 50's you dont feal like bashing your own face in with a hammer while trying to squeeze out that little bit of exp needed to level. (with all things aside i hope arena net pulls off the level of fun that you wouldent want to do that anyway, but having that extra line of defence to not want to mutilate something due to game mechanix is alwayes a + in my book)
Anyway i hope you see this so you can understand a little bit better.
What you call a classless system, I call experiencing difficult content that isn't exactly the same everytime you run it (e.g. Tank pulls boss to the corner and everytime it emotes everyone hide behind the pillar). Where all the responsibility is spread out amongst the group, instead of on the Tank & Healer, whilst everyone else just has to not stand in the crap. I actually enjoy playing a healer and I'm actually proud of my healing skills, but I still see flaws in the current system (look at my sig
).
I don't really care about your opinion on DEs, because only time will tell how they pan out. But as for the levelling curve (or lack of one), I think it's a good idea. Power levellers will power level, no matter what, so why impede on the progress of those that don't wish to power level? If someone is only able to play for an hour or 2 a night, then why shouldn't they feel that they accomplished something, by increasing their level? Also the fact that GW2 has no Open-World quest, just means that people will spend more time exploring the open world looking for Events, rather than going on auto-pilot grinding quest/mobs.
Well the game is obviously not aimed towards you, so there's no reason for you to be excited for it. But there are reasons for others to be.
I have some faith in the game because for the first time in a long time, it's clear that a development company "gets it". Based on everything I've heard and read about the game, it's very clear that ArenaNet understands the genre in a way that very few companies ever do. They recognize, in a very fundamental way, the promise and potential the genre had when it started...and their philosophy is very clearly reflected in their design. They are re-examining the fundamental elements and coming up with very different, innovative solutions to old problems, rather than just copying a formula for a single past successful game.
Most MMORPG developers in the last 6 years have really shown themselves to be completely clueless about what really makes these games work. They just try to copy features or systems straight out of past games, mash them together based on the current conventional wisdom, add a few twists or marketing gimmicks, and release a game. Time and again, we're seeing a "new normal" of MMORPGs that can't even maintain their subscription numbers for more than a few months, let alone grow their player base over time. The bar is set extremely low now...companies are shooting for mass success and gaining only very niche subscription numbers.
The contrast between ArenaNet and all other developers is pretty dramatic. Try to take a close look at the underlying philosophy behind GW2's design in the context of the genre's history, and how effectively they are realizing that philosophy with the mechanics and systems, and I think you'll have a hard time NOT being a little excited about the prospect of this game. It's very likely going to be one of those games that is much greater than the sum of its parts...because of that overall understanding of what this genre is, and what it could be.
Its easier to get down with GW2 becuase of the IP. There are no expectations on previous games other than GW1, and GW2 is doing everything that GW had and more.
Also becuase GW2 is its own IP, it does not have people from SWG for example who do not like swtor.
Also there is no sub fee.
And the fact it has nice mmo mechanics, but lacking some sand box features which seems not to bother those who like GW2.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Yeah i hear what you are saying but i think it is open world PVP.
1. It's not instanced but persistent.
2. A zone is open to all players and is in the real game world just like the myst.
3. Anyone can enter that zone at any level.
So WvWvW is not instanced,we can agree on that and it happens in an open zone.
Heck ill let the dev tell it like it is.
“The other thing that I think is important and this is not a direct answer, but we have World vs. World PvP in Guild Wars 2. I think that will impact PvE as well. Which is your server shard matched up against two other servers in open world PvP. If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that. It is something that really drove community and you care about what you are doing on a PVE and PvP side. You care about the people on the server. We think we will have those bonds because your server is matched up against two other servers. So it is just that much more important that you become friends and you bond with the players on your server. So the friends you make through PvE and Dynamic Events, those friends will carry over into World vs. World PvP. You may get out of World vs. World PvP and go back to early zones to do events with new people and help encourage them to join you in the fight for your server to take part in battles and beat the other two. We expect large strong communities on each server and I think PvP will end up affecting PvE because people will work together.” -Colin Johanson (Lead Content Designer)
“Each opposing world starts out with castles, mercenary camps, mines, lumber mills and villages. Separating the starting zones are neutral zones controlled by no one, also containing fortresses, mines, and villages.
The resources gained from mines and lumber mills are used to rebuild walls, create siege engines, and generally defend the team’s fortress.
These territories and control points will confer benefits to the world that controls them; “maybe everyone gets increased energy regeneration or healing rate or enhanced loot drop rate.” Players can gain experience and level their character in World PvP. Guilds will be able to take and hold keeps.“
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm
Well, it comes down to semantics, most people only call pvp 'open world pvp' if it takes place in the PvE world, which is not the case in GW2.
Yeah it does come down to semantics to be fair. The other thing is we really don't know much about the WvWvW pvp part of the game. For some reason i think they have had a rethink on how they were going to perfect the system,something tells me we are going to be blown out of the water.
How about a couple of persistent Darkness Falls type dungeons with entrances on each server,they say they got the idea from DAOC.
http://camelot.allakhazam.com/zones.html?czone=62
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm
The fact that they made GW1
The features/machanic are realistic and fresh
The things they're doing with the game seem like the things that MMO players have been wanting for years. Like replacing the quests with dynamic events. But it seems to be done in a way that actually works.
Actually, I can explain this! It's really easy.
Are you ready? Ready for the BIG SECRET? Why fans of GW2 aren't annoyed by the design decisions?
When they rolled out the GW2 information, it went a lot like this 'We're going to have teleporting and dynamic events and world vs. world, but no open world PvP, and this is what our features are going to be like. Like instanced PvP matches. Also fast leveling. ... and no holy trinity. Also, single faction."
Most of these features in GW2? Fans have known about them FOREVER. Longer than they've known about any of the classes, or before a single gameplay video was ever released. People are fans of the game because that's what they were LOOKING for. People looked at what they were offering for gameplay and design decisions, decided if they liked enough of it, and if they did.... that's how they decided to be fans.
It doesn't hurt that a lot of the design decisions (Like easy to get max equipment, teleporting everywhere, trivial leveling, a deck-building style skill system) are familiar from GW1, so those people who wanted a game sort of like GW1 but actually an MMORPG were well served, and kind of knew what to expect).
Let's use your example of TSW. Why did most people become fans of it? Because it had a bitchin' CGI cinematic trailer.
... that's it. People didn't really know what TSW was. Lots of design decisions (Like the specific type of PvP) were complete mysteries, and therefore it was left to the imaginations and hopes of the fans.
That's... not really a good way to keep people happy with your product. Because let me tell you, my imagination is super awesome, and reality is BOUND to disappoint.
At least with GW2, I knew what I would be getting, coming into it. Sure, it'd design decisions some people don't like... but that's why they're not huge fans of GW2. THe closer what they're offering (... and a lot of it is design decisions, so not really spectacularly 'ohh, they're promising the world'... stuff like 'single faction' and 'lots of teleporting locations' are hardly rocket science) is to a person's ideals, the more of a fan somebody is likely to be.
Of course, the backlash happens if they end up NOT living up to their promises. Like the immense amounts of rage you'll hear if WvWvW involves 5 v 5 v 5 matches, laggy graphics and crappy gameplay. ... but until that happens (... and the demos so far shows they seem to have a pretty good track record on delivering the particular design things they're offering), fandom is relatively happy on average.
The lesson here? Explain what you're offering early and often. Oh, and it helps if you're sort of like your predecessor (There are people who are mad at GW2 for not being enough like GW1, but they're not SUPER common. Compare how many people are mad at SW:tOR for not being like SWG. THe problems with franchises!)
offtopic but why does faith have to be religion?
to me, faith = blind trust
I would blindly buy any game by ANET - I dont care what the game is about
(I used to feel the same way about Blizzard but not anymore)
but thats my personal choice
and I do NOT preach GW2 as the next best thing since sliced bread
I really dont care if other players like GW2 or not, everyone has different tastes,
but I'll be having fun
EQ2 fan sites
Well honestly...... it's not blind trust. Anet has shown everything they've said will be in, and shown it working. We aren't talking about a few dev interviews and flashy cinematics to promote the game. The devs have shown live demo's at numerous conventions, let players play and give their own impressions.
All that really remains to be seen for me is how well the servers handle it. I would pretty much only use faith here, but even thats a stretch because Anet has already given us GW1, they aren't new to this. I doubt they will have a great deal of issue setting up the servers.
Honestly, this is my biggest worry with the game. I appreciate all the features, the dodge mechanics, etc... All fine and good.
But GW1 was touted as the next breath of fresh air when it was released. Many people were parading it around like the innovation that would change the genre. I was one of the people that bought it when it came out. I uninstalled it in less than a week. Boring gameplay. Everything instanced. It felt like a 2D game with 3D graphics. Your character just kind of floated in the air when casting spells and the melee animations didn't seem to relay any impact. I couldn't get into the story at all. In fact, I didn't understand the quick changes in time and how it was supposed to relate to me. One second the grawl attack, the next I'm 20 years into the future and the Grawl have overrun the place.
I understand that a lot of people liked the game. I'm just not one of them. I will probably try out GW2 when it comes out, but I am keeping my expectations much lower this time.
As a side note - trust me, the gameplay videos looked great for GW1, too, so I wouldn't start basing my opinion of that.
EDIT - I should add that I tried playing GW1 a few times, not just when it came out. Last time was sometime last winter. Same result. Just couldn't get into it. It's like a girl who everyone tells you is so hot, but she just doesn't do it for you.
The video you have requested has been rated “TV-Y” and may not be appropriate for younger audiences.
WHAT? XP
I think the phrase "having faith" in a game is a bit too strong.
The reason I'm looking up to GW2 isn't because it'll revolutionize the genre, or be the second coming or anything like that. The reason is just because I like MMORPGs, and out of all the upcoming ones, this is the one that looks (to me) like it'll be most fun from what I've seen and read, nothing more, nothing else. Also, being in Venezuela where paying for things online can be a chore, and without much time to game (work, wife, baby, and going back to college) having no monthly fee is a big plus (again, to me).
What can men do against such reckless hate?
I don't. As soon as I saw the freakin' anime bunny rabbit things as a playable race I stopped reading about GW2.
I'm sure it will be a [insert superlatives here] game, just not for me.
lolwhut?!?!?! O.O
Are you sure it wasnt a Tera info instead GW2?
hmmm must have missed a race, iv seen the asura , but have yet to see this anime bunny race , more info would be nice .