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General: SotW: Piracy is B.S.

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,619MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

While Coyote Sharptongue wrote the original article we've chosen for our Story of the Week satirically, the concept of game piracy seemed to strike quite a resonant cord with our readers. Folks chimed in on both sides of the piracy issue and Coyote's column generated over two hundred responses earning it the title of Story of the Week.

The scariest and most overused of industry buzzwords, piracy is the boogeyman that supposedly robs developers of billions, destroys lives, and is the reason that invasive root kits are staunchly defended whenever they’re discovered. The term is adored by the media, used to frighten children into eating their vegetables, and if it were a physical creature it would look like a vampire Darth Vader covered in spiders.

Read more of the MMORPG.com SotW: Piracy is B.S..

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
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Comments

  • Stuka1000Stuka1000 Posts: 868Member Uncommon

    There are so many bad or bug ridden games that hit the shelves these days that it's no wonder people are wary of spending their hard earned on them without trying them out first.  Any developer that releases a game and does not release a demo is just asking for people to download an illegal copy.  That said I disagree with Coyote about it slowing to a trickle, heroes of might and magic 6 was released a couple of days ago and within hours there were over 1200 people seeding a cracked copy.  I do agree with him however that it is nowhere near the armageddon to the games industry that they would have us believe, afterall the music industry is still going strong and people have been pirating music since Adam was a lad.

  • matrixvsmatrixvs ijsselsteinPosts: 179Member

    piracy would stop if everyone had enuff money to buy them.. in short never...

    A lot of people download illegal movies app or what ever because they just dont have the money to buy it. And to be fair world economie is pretty crap spread out.

    Allso the company's realy dont have any problems selling games and music and films for huge amounts. Yea they need go make money and yea they cost a lot to make, but do u realy pay say 50 euro for AoC and launch.. or any game for that mather. Normal price for a game should be 30 euro max. The last few years game get quick finishes and poor support and not to mention the lack of "fresh ideas".

    The reson why games now completely stalled and keep looking the same is that making a game with bug sell it quick makes them profit and as long as that happens ppl wont even bother looking outside the box.

    All in all i support piracy but for the only reson people that dont have a lot of money or dont want to pay for overpriced items that are infested with bugs should be allowed to do that. Yes they will loose money and yes companys will fall but they need to learn that not everyone has buckets of money like them.

     

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Southern IllinoisPosts: 1,080Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eric1000

    There are so many bad or bug ridden games that hit the shelves these days that it's no wonder people are wary of spending their hard earned on them without trying them out first.  Any developer that releases a game and does not release a demo is just asking for people to download an illegal copy.  That said I disagree with Coyote about it slowing to a trickle, heroes of might and magic 6 was released a couple of days ago and within hours there were over 1200 people seeding a cracked copy.  I do agree with him however that it is nowhere near the armageddon to the games industry that they would have us believe, afterall the music industry is still going strong and people have been pirating music since Adam was a lad.

    First just because 1200 people are seeding anything does not mean 1200 people would have bought it. Some people just like to share, and no I'm not being facetious. Secondly you are correct about the Demo aspect. That is what I use Torrents for. If it is a good game that is worth the price then I will buy it, if not worth the price I will wait until it comes down to a decent price. If it is garbage then I will be glad I didn't pay for a shit game. Why the butthurt over this?

     

    It all comes down to this: File Sharing DOES NOT EQUAL stealing! Does any company expect EVERYBODY in the world to buy their product? No. Some do. Most don't. So if i Torrent a game that millions of people have already bought or will buy in the future then said company will not be hurt by my not buying said game. I am one of those that would not have purchased. The company will go on.

    One more Edit: The idea of IP rights is up there with 'corporations are people too ya know!" on the WTF are you thinking scale. Big money equals Big greed. If you work in a medium that allows digital sharing of materals then don't be upset when it is used as intended. If you want to be rich then work in Banking or Junk Bond Trading. If you want to create things then do so. You do not have to become filthy rich in everything you choose to do in life.

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  • QuesaQuesa Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,246Member

    This reminds me of RIFT "taking the good from other games and packaging them into one" and flopping.

    Seriously, we are doing thread sequels now?

  • XaeroDegreazXaeroDegreaz MasanPosts: 13Member

    I'm a straight pirate -- no way in hell I'm going to invest my hard earned $49.99 ~ $59.99 on a game that potentially sucks. I'm gonna grab the torrent, and play through until I'm content that it's worth buying my own copy.

    Is what I'm doing wrong? Most would say yes, but I've saved countless hundreds (thousands?) of dollars with this approach; if the game sucks, delete it and move on.

    However, if there is a demo available, I'll usually grab that first. If I feel the demo is not complete enough, I'll find a full copy. When I'm satisfied, I fork over the money to get a box set.

    I'm a firm believer that software developers should be suported *if* they have a worthy product. Asking consumers to pay fifty bucks for software on a leap of faith is simply wrong.

    Honestly, how many of us have went and bought a game that we played for ten minutes before we were so pissed off? No way to get a refund since we opened the game, so we just got shafted.

    No more.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    If I like a game I'll buy it. If it just looks pretty and I know I'll play for like 2 hours then be bored with it, pirate that shit. I'll only delete it and forget it ever existed shortly after installing, anyway.

     

    Game makers really want to stop piracy, they'll 1) Release some beefy demos of games so people can actually try before they buy and 2) stop publishing crap and serving it on an Unreal 3 platter.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • KizzattaKizzatta Vancouver, WAPosts: 59Member

    If I download a game, it is because I wanted to play it but wouldn't/couldn't have paid money for it. If downloads didn't exist I might have never played the game.. or told all my gamer friends about my experience playing it. Not everyone steals game downloads, and the people that do further open the doors for word-of-mouth networking effectively acting as an indirect source of advertisement. Game companies think they're getting bent over when actually their game is getting more popular, more hits, more talk, and eventually -- more revenue. 

    One last thing: I just wanna say go to hell EA you dirty greedy rat scallion corporate bastards.

     



     

  • atticusbcatticusbc Posts: 1,069Member Uncommon

    when i pirate games, its usually as a form of trial. either the game doesn't offer a trial, or it's so miniscule as to be pointless, so i'll grab the full game and decide whether the company deserves my money. unlike some people it seems, i still consider even $10 an amount of money worth considering spending. i'm certainly not spending more than that on a game i'll play once, and never touch again.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,189Member Uncommon

    I just avoid games with bad DRM, especially those that are single player and require net access.  That is stupid if the game is single player.  Some of these companies are losing a lot of money because they use horrid DRM.

    I don't pirate games ever, but won't tolerate some of the DRM methods these companies use either.

  • Tedly224Tedly224 Federal Way, WAPosts: 164Member

    My personal feelings are this.

    THQ launched an immensely popular real time strategy game called Dawn of War (the first one). At the time, they made a very comprehensive Demo available that taught you how to play, showed off what the game was about, and included a limited scenario as well as a single multi player map so you could get a feel for what that end of the game looked like. Previous to the game's launch, the orks were unlocked so you could check them out as well, rather than eyeball just the one race from the demo.

    In my mind this was perfect. It gave me a really, really good idea of what the game would be like upon purchase, and I had no problems shelling out money for it when it did launch.

    Every company should look to this example as a potential standard for getting my money on any product they plan to release. And under no circumstances will I EVER accept DRM that is invasive and funnels back personal computer file information and ISP traffic information for their ability to resale for commercial use.

    If I must use cracked versions of software to evade DRM that has no business on my computer, then I will do so. And companies WILL have to accept that others will feel the same.

    Edit - I would only use pirated versions of a crack for a game I already have purchased. I do not condone people downloading software for free and keeping it on their machines.

     

     

  • MyriaMyria Lowell, MAPosts: 570Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Game makers really want to stop piracy, they'll 1) Release some beefy demos of games so people can actually try before they buy and 2) stop publishing crap and serving it on an Unreal 3 platter.

    The only thing that would stop piracy is lots of pirates going to jail -- preferably for extended periods. Pirates will go to any and all absurd length to justify their theft no matter what the company's do, and blame companies for any and all attempts to protect their property. The fact is what makes it possible is the lack of risk -- your chances of paying a price for your theft are near nil. Make the risk higher, make these little morons try and explain to a judge, jury, and their fellow inmates how stealing isn't really stealing, and piracy would come to a screeching halt.

    Sadly we live in a society where the majority are convinced they are entitled to anything and everything, just because they want it, and anything that gets in the way of that will not be acceptable.

    Be proud, pirates, you can get away with theft with almost no risk, but don't for a second whine about for-pay DLC, cash shops, RMT, net connect required, or any of the many and varied ways companies are using to try and recoup their losses.

    Sadly all of us have to reap what your idiocy has sown.

  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    Originally posted by Myria

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Game makers really want to stop piracy, they'll 1) Release some beefy demos of games so people can actually try before they buy and 2) stop publishing crap and serving it on an Unreal 3 platter.

    The only thing that would stop piracy is lots of pirates going to jail -- preferably for extended periods. Pirates will go to any and all absurd length to justify their theft no matter what the company's do, and blame companies for any and all attempts to protect their property. The fact is what makes it possible is the lack of risk -- your chances of paying a price for your theft are near nil. Make the risk higher, make these little morons try and explain to a judge, jury, and their fellow inmates how stealing isn't really stealing, and piracy would come to a screeching halt.

    Sadly we live in a society where the majority are convinced they are entitled to anything and everything, just because they want it, and anything that gets in the way of that will not be acceptable.

    Be proud, pirates, you can get away with theft with almost no risk, but don't for a second whine about for-pay DLC, cash shops, RMT, net connect required, or any of the many and varied ways companies are using to try and recoup their losses.

    Sadly all of us have to reap what your idiocy has sown.

    So you'd opt to throw everyone who's ever illegally downloaded a PC game in jail. Then what?

    Companies would still jam DRM, forced online connectivity, and limited activations down the throats of users. Why? Because those things have more to do with preventing game reselling than they do with piracy. Most illegal downloads are done as trials prior to someone choosing to buy said game, or they were people financially unwilling or unable to afford the inflated price tag that publishers demand for often terrible games. DRM is actually extremely ineffecting against piracy.

    Besides, if piracy no longer occured, what would publishers and developers use as a scapegoat for the poor sales of their terrible games?

  • djajikdjajik Houston, TXPosts: 10Member

    Originally posted by Myria

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Game makers really want to stop piracy, they'll 1) Release some beefy demos of games so people can actually try before they buy and 2) stop publishing crap and serving it on an Unreal 3 platter.

    The only thing that would stop piracy is lots of pirates going to jail -- preferably for extended periods. Pirates will go to any and all absurd length to justify their theft no matter what the company's do, and blame companies for any and all attempts to protect their property. The fact is what makes it possible is the lack of risk -- your chances of paying a price for your theft are near nil. Make the risk higher, make these little morons try and explain to a judge, jury, and their fellow inmates how stealing isn't really stealing, and piracy would come to a screeching halt.

    Sadly we live in a society where the majority are convinced they are entitled to anything and everything, just because they want it, and anything that gets in the way of that will not be acceptable.

    Be proud, pirates, you can get away with theft with almost no risk, but don't for a second whine about for-pay DLC, cash shops, RMT, net connect required, or any of the many and varied ways companies are using to try and recoup their losses.

    Sadly all of us have to reap what your idiocy has sown.


     


    Firstly, people involved in "piratin/hacking/sharing protocols developers" way much skillful then game developers, so "make risks higher" - will not bring anything except higher spending on security of application and tracking down pirates for the cost of those who really buy games. Microsoft Windows is a perfect example.


    Game developers should stop selling products "as is", and be responsible for every bug or fail to deliver the game on "first release date", including all features that was failed to deliver. Did I just invent those rules? Nope - this is how contract software developing works.  And that is why online games are not so much pirated - because you know they will have to polish the game eventually, and that’s why you ready to spend on a game before launch.


    In addition, do you think BF3 will suffer from piracy? No! They offer unique graphic engine, with their unique concept and constant support. Will StarCraft, Warhammer 40K, Need For Speed e.t.c  will be pirated? - Oh yeah! Bcoz nothing has changed from previous to next version, and there is nothing new to expect. Why should I spend money on smthng that I already paid for?


    Pirating is bad, but brain-dead game developing is worse, bcoz it sets a standard for other manufacturers to create mediocre games instead of investing in something new and deliver successful product.

  • Stuka1000Stuka1000 Posts: 868Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Myria

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Game makers really want to stop piracy, they'll 1) Release some beefy demos of games so people can actually try before they buy and 2) stop publishing crap and serving it on an Unreal 3 platter.

    The only thing that would stop piracy is lots of pirates going to jail -- preferably for extended periods. Pirates will go to any and all absurd length to justify their theft no matter what the company's do, and blame companies for any and all attempts to protect their property. The fact is what makes it possible is the lack of risk -- your chances of paying a price for your theft are near nil. Make the risk higher, make these little morons try and explain to a judge, jury, and their fellow inmates how stealing isn't really stealing, and piracy would come to a screeching halt.

    Sadly we live in a society where the majority are convinced they are entitled to anything and everything, just because they want it, and anything that gets in the way of that will not be acceptable.

    Be proud, pirates, you can get away with theft with almost no risk, but don't for a second whine about for-pay DLC, cash shops, RMT, net connect required, or any of the many and varied ways companies are using to try and recoup their losses.

    Sadly all of us have to reap what your idiocy has sown.

    You want me to justify it to a judge, fine:

     

    Yes your honour, I fully admit that I refused to pay for the car as it turned up with only two wheels and the engine cuts out every half a mile; what's more the manufacturer has promised a fix, including the other two wheels at some unspecified point in the next millenium by which time of course they will have already unleashed cash-cow 2 onto an unsuspecting public, which I will also refuse to pay for if it arrives in the same condition.  I demand a road test.

     

    Will that do?

  • c4viper1c4viper1 PortoPosts: 28Member

    Originally posted by matrixvs

    piracy would stop if everyone had enuff money to buy them.. in short never...

    A lot of people download illegal movies app or what ever because they just dont have the money to buy it. And to be fair world economie is pretty crap spread out.

    Allso the company's realy dont have any problems selling games and music and films for huge amounts. Yea they need go make money and yea they cost a lot to make, but do u realy pay say 50 euro for AoC and launch.. or any game for that mather. Normal price for a game should be 30 euro max. The last few years game get quick finishes and poor support and not to mention the lack of "fresh ideas".

    The reson why games now completely stalled and keep looking the same is that making a game with bug sell it quick makes them profit and as long as that happens ppl wont even bother looking outside the box.

    All in all i support piracy but for the only reson people that dont have a lot of money or dont want to pay for overpriced items that are infested with bugs should be allowed to do that. Yes they will loose money and yes companys will fall but they need to learn that not everyone has buckets of money like them.

     




     



    Agreed on all acounts make the games more affordable and piracy for piracy will drop, make games prices in away that dont make ppl go like " Who are they trying to rip off ..." if games were like 20 / 30 euros ppl would go like ..." piracy why bother we dont even get the online stuff...", ok you say " we will make less money" but i say You will sell more copy´s !! and more users are always better then less users,even if for less money.

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon

    Besides, if piracy no longer occured, what would publishers and developers use as a scapegoat for the poor sales of their terrible games?

    I totally agree. Piracy has been the scapegoat for movies, music and games for awhile now. They need some excuse to tell the investors, music label or movie studio as to why they failed. Might as well be pirates. I guess nothing good ever gets pirated. If they did there would never be blockbuster sales in any of those catagories. People only like to pirate complete garbage I guess.

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,036Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eric1000

    Originally posted by Myria


    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Game makers really want to stop piracy, they'll 1) Release some beefy demos of games so people can actually try before they buy and 2) stop publishing crap and serving it on an Unreal 3 platter.

    The only thing that would stop piracy is lots of pirates going to jail -- preferably for extended periods. Pirates will go to any and all absurd length to justify their theft no matter what the company's do, and blame companies for any and all attempts to protect their property. The fact is what makes it possible is the lack of risk -- your chances of paying a price for your theft are near nil. Make the risk higher, make these little morons try and explain to a judge, jury, and their fellow inmates how stealing isn't really stealing, and piracy would come to a screeching halt.

    Sadly we live in a society where the majority are convinced they are entitled to anything and everything, just because they want it, and anything that gets in the way of that will not be acceptable.

    Be proud, pirates, you can get away with theft with almost no risk, but don't for a second whine about for-pay DLC, cash shops, RMT, net connect required, or any of the many and varied ways companies are using to try and recoup their losses.

    Sadly all of us have to reap what your idiocy has sown.

    You want me to justify it to a judge, fine:

     

    Yes your honour, I fully admit that I refused to pay for the car as it turned up with only two wheels and the engine cuts out every half a mile; what's more the manufacturer has promised a fix, including the other two wheels at some unspecified point in the next millenium by which time of course they will have already unleashed cash-cow 2 onto an unsuspecting public, which I will also refuse to pay for if it arrives in the same condition.  I demand a road test.

     

    Will that do?


     

    uh no.  whether or not you are allowed to 'test' or trial something is at the sole discretion of the seller/manufacturer, not as some sort of delusion of civil righteousness.

  • NesrieNesrie Medford, ORPosts: 648Member

    It is ridiculous that these companies spend so much time and money trying to go after people who are not their customers while simultaneously slapping around their existing customers who keep telling them they don't like it. They just don't care. They see the dollars they don't have as more important as the dollars they are geting. That is short term management, and it is time those guys/gals get weeded out of this vicious cycle.

    parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  • nattiusnattius newcastle upon tynePosts: 22Member
    The whole "I only pirate because I couldn't afford/wouldnt have bought" line is B.S too. Do you go steal cars and mug old ladys for the same reasons? Sure game prices can be a rip off, doesn't make the above reasons anymore legit though.
  • sumo0sumo0 odensePosts: 115Member

    Originally posted by nattius

    The whole "I only pirate because I couldn't afford/wouldnt have bought" line is B.S too. Do you go steal cars and mug old ladys for the same reasons? Sure game prices can be a rip off, doesn't make the above reasons anymore legit though.

     

    this is total BS. if you want to steal i car you will have to know more stuff than if you pirate a game. the punishment if caught are also that much bigger.

    i used to buy games all the time, until the gaming industry became big business and started to shoot out crappy games all the time. if you get disappointed soooo many times people will start to pirate instead.

  • DunkareDunkare NottellingPosts: 33Member

    pay 50€ for a game that provides me with days and weeks of entertainment and maybe even prolongs the experience by a well made multiplayer mode? of course, anytime.
    pay 50€ for a 10 hours short graphics trip, that cant even be sold on after i finish it? no thank you.


    just as the music industry, gaming companies nowadays hurt themselves by creating crap in bulk. and because most is crap, most 'pirates' would not pay for the game they 'pirate' either way. if they play it or not does not make a huge difference for the companies.

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by nattius

    The whole "I only pirate because I couldn't afford/wouldnt have bought" line is B.S too. Do you go steal cars and mug old ladys for the same reasons? Sure game prices can be a rip off, doesn't make the above reasons anymore legit though.

    When you steal a car or mug an old lady someone actually loses something. When you copy a game what does anyone lose? If the people who pirated the game couldn't afford it or wouldn't have bought it there could never have been a sale to begin with. The developer did not lose a sale to piracy, they never had the sale. All that piracy did was allow more people to play the game then would have been possible otherwise.

    Are you mad at the people who pirate because you really believe the developer is losing money or is it because it's not fair that you paid for a crappy game and they did not? Why should they have played for free and you paid?

     

  • nattiusnattius newcastle upon tynePosts: 22Member
    If you didn't use pirated games you'd either a) pay for something that people said was good or b) play something F2P. Can't see many people sitting there twiddling their thumbs so go do one of them, just don't sit there giving crappy justifications for pirating. You pirate because you want it and can't afford it. Sure maybe its overpriced, but that's not your call. If your mate is selling his games off for £10 and you only think its worth 8 you don't go and steal it from him. Difference is its a big company so its ok. Sure its not going to hurt them all that much. Just don't make excuses, you stole because you wanted it and didn't want to pay the asking price.
  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by nattius

    If you didn't use pirated games you'd either a) pay for something that people said was good or b) play something F2P. Can't see many people sitting there twiddling their thumbs so go do one of them, just don't sit there giving crappy justifications for pirating. You pirate because you want it and can't afford it. Sure maybe its overpriced, but that's not your call. If your mate is selling his games off for £10 and you only think its worth 8 you don't go and steal it from him. Difference is its a big company so its ok. Sure its not going to hurt them all that much. Just don't make excuses, you stole because you wanted it and didn't want to pay the asking price.

    It has nothing to do with it being a big company or not. If the person was not going to buy it that company would have never had a sale so there is nothing to lose. You tell me what did they lose?

  • Agricola1Agricola1 PortsmouthPosts: 4,984Member

    "Bad Spock wrote:

    We were talking about why users/customers had become SO adverse to spending even the smallest amount of money for their IT/computer/technical needs."

     

    Software costs alot more today and concerning games I feel despite improvements in graphics and gameplay the value has dropped. In the 1980's I could get a game for something like £2 and it would last me a month or more, sure the graphics sucked by todays standards along with the gameplay but by the standards of the time it was decent. Today to purchase a similar game it would cost me £20 - £30 and the game would last me for a day to a week at most before I bin it.

    So in 25 years I've seen a price increase of 1000 - 1500% with a significant increase in the visual and playability value to match the price hike but lifespan has dramaticly dropped off. They make computer games with the same philosophy as they make washing machines or other home appliances. They construct it to last past the warranty but no longer, after the warranty is up they want it to fail so that you'll be forced to purchase a new one.

    Then you get some suit telling you that the reason a AAA title costs £50 is that they have to make money back for all the piracy and it hurts the consumer. What a heap of BS, how many McDonalds or Pizza Huts got robbed last year? I wonder what the response would be if they increased the price of a Big Mac by 1500% on the cost 25 years ago and blamed armed armed robbers and company employees stealing? Well they'd sell no burgers unless all the other burger chains agreed to hike their prices too ... but that'd make me a crazy conspiracy nut wouldn't it?

    Well until things change I'm not paying £50 for 1 day of shitty entertainment that I could've got for nothing that's what prostitutes are for!

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

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