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The sad pvp fact confirmed at NYC Comicon

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  • MalevilMalevil Member Posts: 468

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

    So just like SW:TOR, TSW will also be a CORPG, falsely labeled as a massively-multiplayer online game, unless ones definition of MMO is 100's of players cooperating and competing in text-writing/chatting within a general chat-box simultaneoulsy.

    Shows you know very little about Swtor.

    Which will in fact offer pvp servers with open world pvp as well as objective based world pvp with territorial control on all kinds of servers. (and also a means to get your pvp gear just through world pvp if you dislike instanced pvp).

    TSW is much more shaping up like GW2: Three factions yet no pvp in the open game world, to name two smashing similarities.

     

    Heh. I wonder how much time it will take to mighty Jedies and Siths to flood Bioware forums and complain about how open world pvp in swtor needs more balance becouse one side is steamrolling other .

    Why TSW and GW2 isnt allowing PvP in PvE world is pretty clear imo . In GW2 Anet better dont want to PvP mess with their DE and there are not clear factions as in other games. 

    in TSW im not surprised either - Illuminati will imo easy outnumber Templars and Dragon together, just becouse they are named Illuminati ... (bad choice for faction name), which would lead to sucky open world pvp.

  • Athena_StarfireAthena_Starfire Member UncommonPosts: 213

    I am also a PVE 'Carebear' (if Carebear means you would rather play yor game without being ganked every 10 seconds), I don't care for the "my genitals are bigger than yours" mindset of world PvP. As a matter of fact I may just rethink my pre-order of SWTOR if they are going to have a stricly PVE environment. RIFT screwed itself introducing World PvP into a PVE server (The reason I quit)

    Cheers

     

  • OriousOrious Member UncommonPosts: 548

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin


    What PVP isn't "meaningless"?  We're playing video games here, it's about having fun.

    I understand.  Some have varying expectations, even if it is in the most narrowly redundant combative sense.  That's cool.

    I understand some can't answer a direct question and tend to bite back with redundant points. Anyway what PVP is meaningful, it must exist if another form of PVP is meaningless?

    It's true that in a sense all things regarding your pixels are meaningless.

    But in this context we think of this in the context of the game.

    In WoW's BG for example one side could win...but does that have any effect on the gaming world? Not really for the most part. Take WoW's PvP servers with "open world" or constantly flagged pvp. You can kill others, but what does that really do? Arguably nothing sense people can still basically just sit in town and dungeon finder all day... you aren't stopping them from going to dungeons and bettering their faction by becoming better players.

     

    Now let's play Lineage 2 (I use this alot because I played it most). At the beggining there were some 5-6 castles that could be owned by 1 guild/ alliance. These castles gave you rights to the taxes in the towns where players would purchase things from npcs. In L2...things were UNGODLY expensive. You had maybe 5-6 weapons per weapon type per grade and there were grades "E" through A and the highest was S. S grade was about 1 weapon per weapon type. That's not really that many weapons or that many armors, but it was a pvp game. So you'd get the gear quick and win based on player's ability to perform skills or tactics that are present in most games. Enchant them also. The point is that you'd siege for these castles that were in the open world at designated times. Anyone could watch the sieges and it was often fun to just sit and watch them... On top of this, only the king of a castle could get a dragon and fly about the land. Those battles meant something within the gaming world.

    Now for the open world aspect. Non-warring characters could go red and risk losing a piece of their expensive gear...that was enough to deter most reds. Simple. Effective. When you were red.... people would come after you like no body's bussiness to get your gear if you dropped some and raise their pvp score. Consequence brings meaning to pvp.

    So to prevent this guilds would WAR each other and allow them to KOS and recieve no penalties (if it was a mutal war). Why would you do this? Well there's a training ground and these mobs are the best. If you killed a group of people and kept this spot, you'd level faster and obtain mats and they'd be weaker simply because of this. I think you also got something for winning wars ie. more kills etc. As well as if you were fighting a raid boss that dropped the only item that allowed you to upgrade you guild size and it has a 24 hour respawn, you can see how meaningful pvp is with that regard....

     

    Now for a game like TSW, it isn't built around PvP it's built around LORE, so it's fine that the PvP things be instanced, but it's said that these instances be them 10 v 10 v 10 or 100+ FFA give buffs or other goods for the winning faction that may increase abilities on the PvP and PvE side of things for EVERYONE ON THE SERVER. There may not really be that much of a stuggle as was the case in a game like L2, but it does add more than what WoW adds. WoW isn't a PvP game either. It's a sports game...just for entertainment. WoW could work without any PvP whatsover.

    image

  • Cik_AsalinCik_Asalin Member Posts: 3,033

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin


    What PVP isn't "meaningless"?  We're playing video games here, it's about having fun.

    I understand.  Some have varying expectations, even if it is in the most narrowly redundant combative sense.  That's cool.

    I understand some can't answer a direct question and tend to bite back with redundant points. Anyway what PVP is meaningful, it must exist if another form of PVP is meaningless?

    I have answered directly.  To stay on-topic, I would only be re-mentioning what I factually already mentioned.  But it's not a bad thing.  I enjoy corpg's and third-person shooting among stringently limited 10 v10 scenarios's also.  When it becomes massively-multiplayer, I'll probably be more interested.

  • TardcoreTardcore Member Posts: 2,325

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by Shoju


    Originally posted by DarkPony



    Don't deny those who love world pvp their fun, I am not denying you your fun (on pve servers) either.

    They aren't denying anyone any fun.  They just aren't making the type of game that you are looking for.   

    Yes, by denying me my fun. Is it so hard to place yourself in someone else's shoes?

    If they would have announced: World PVP servers only, I personally would have understood people protesting about that very well.

    In my eyes, mmorpg's not catering for both kind of playstyles are doing it wrong and are bound to invoke the wrath of those who feel left out. Which makes my stance on this very predictable and reasonable, really.

    :: said in Beaver Cleaver voice :: But gee, Pony, ya know that anyone who likes open world PVP are automaticlly griefing douche bags who only ever pick fights with those many levels below them, and never ever, get killed by more powerful players themselves. They can't possibly be players who enjoy testing their mettle and taking risks against actuall human opponents because NPC AI's can't fight their way out of a paper bag. And also players that hate open world PVP yet build their characters on a server with a PVP ruleset anyway are automatically exempt from having to participate. And have every right to throw a screaming wobbler if another player even gives them a meaningful look. How dare we ruin their fun. Its great a company finally decided to just make sure these lilly white saints won't have to worry about being party to such cruel fortunes of fate by just freezing the open world PVP player base out entirely, and only allowing PVP in sanctioned and sanitized areas where it won't upset anyone.

     

    It also makes perfect sense to create factions with incredibly juxtiposed ideals that prety much hate each other, yet all of them are polite enough not to ever attack each other in public. You know, just like how it happens in the real world.

    /sarcasm off

    Oh well *bleep* it. TSW just slipped right off my radar.

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  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin


    What PVP isn't "meaningless"?  We're playing video games here, it's about having fun.

    I understand.  Some have varying expectations, even if it is in the most narrowly redundant combative sense.  That's cool.

    I understand some can't answer a direct question and tend to bite back with redundant points. Anyway what PVP is meaningful, it must exist if another form of PVP is meaningless?

    I have answered directly.  To stay on-topic, I would only be re-mentioning what I factually already mentioned.  But it's not a bad thing.  I enjoy corpg's and third-person shooting among stringently limited 10 v10 scenarios's also.  When it becomes massively-multiplayer, I'll probably be more interested.

     Just join the server all the swg bloodfin guilds are going to.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Tardcore

    It also makes perfect sense to create factions with incredibly juxtiposed ideals that prety much hate each other, yet all of them are polite enough not to ever attack each other in public. You know, just like how it happens in the real world.

    Gi-joe and Cobra join forces all the time.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 5,071

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by LoganKonlan

    So, why does every gankfester think that every MMO ever published needs to have OPEN world pvp? Some games have it, some games don't. Personally, my game-style doesn't support open world PVP so I don't play games or on servers that offer it and I've never complained. Many games that went the way of supporting griefers I stopped playing...cough...Aion...and yes, OPEN world PVP means gankers and griefers. I understand that the OP would NEVER participate in activities which ruin gameplay for another player...but many will, many can, and many do.

    I've never logged into Darkfall or the COUNTLESS games that ONLY offer PVP as their gameplay.

    Is it possible to leave ONE game on the market that doesn't cater to gamers who scream and cry the loudest?

    PVP servers & PVE servers; a solution that has been working wonders in catering for both kind of players for over a decade.

    Which is why Anet's and now Funcom's decision to go with a single ruleset pisses me off so much.

    Don't deny those who love world pvp their fun, I am not denying you your fun (on pve servers) either.

    I am not into open world pvp much but yea I dont understand why they wouldnt make a pvp and a pve server,it seems like it would bring in more revenue from other sources,it isnt like those that like and want a pvp game are going to go "well it doesnt have what I want but I will play it anyhow" no they will just go find a game that does.So all that potential $$$ to further your game went somewhere else.

  • unclemounclemo Member UncommonPosts: 462

    This is BS!  If they're not going to have Faction V Faction V Faction PvP then what's the freakin' point of having 3 factions???????????????????????????????????

    Once again the carebears are catered to because they dominate the market and the PvPers get left in the dust.  I was hoping this would finally be my DAOC replacement.  Too bad really.  I guess the world can't have enough WoW clones 'eh?  No need to break the mold  and think outside of the box right?  

    Looks like Guild Wars 2 is our last hope.

  • ElricmerrenElricmerren Member Posts: 295

    Actually if you listen to it really it is vary clear. The three groups are waging a secrect war in civalized contries, if they started tossing fire balls and killing each other it would do two thigns. Reveal that some of the people in the world have powers, which others do not, which would reveal the secrect war it'self. Second it would well make them uncivalized and not much better then what they face.  When i heard about the secret war i knew right away that it would not have open world pvp in this game, largely it would go against the idea of trying to hide from the prying eyes of those you are conttroling, and holding back your occult knowledge from, or keeping safe from a horde of darkness. Sad to say it but open world pvp with the ganking andgriefing that comes with it is actually alot of harm to a rp/stry game since it makes the players that play for the rp/story get annoyed and log off or even leave, as such i can ssee why you would not want it in them.

  • taus01taus01 Member Posts: 1,352

    Originally posted by DAS1337

    Originally posted by demonic87

    Open-world pvp games are dead. Get over it and stop living in the past.

    And your proof to justify such a statement?  It's quite funny, because there's an aweful lot of people who want open world PvP between three factions.  Whether it's dead (no one is doing it) or not, the players obviously want it.

     

    Don't bother providing proof, we know you don't have it.

    Play a shooter then, COD, BF2/3, etc. So many to choose from it's mind boggling!

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

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  • just2duhjust2duh Member Posts: 1,290

     Idk, after reading your quote of what he said to you.. He didn't really flatout say it's not possible, it still has an option for some open world PVP.

     He mentioned that there will be a set of rules in place to prevent that, but that does not me you cannot "break" those rules. Similar to how you become an outlaw, red/black named, or something, in other games that will allow any players to attack you freely, purhaps the same sort of thing can or will be applied if you go aggainst those "rules".

  • KelthiusKelthius Member UncommonPosts: 298

    Originally posted by taus01

    Originally posted by DAS1337


    Originally posted by demonic87

    Open-world pvp games are dead. Get over it and stop living in the past.

    And your proof to justify such a statement?  It's quite funny, because there's an aweful lot of people who want open world PvP between three factions.  Whether it's dead (no one is doing it) or not, the players obviously want it.

     

    Don't bother providing proof, we know you don't have it.

    Play a shooter then, COD, BF2/3, etc. So many to choose from it's mind boggling!

    That's not open world, just big BGs. Also, this is mmorpg.com not fpsguru. Many people like the way that MMOs play and want to do some world PvP in it. Is that really too much to ask for? What arguments are there against world PvP that can't be settled through PvP and PvE servers? It seems like TOR is the only game that's going to have true open world PvP. Unfortunately, they decided to go with 2 factions rather than the PvP superior 3. GW2 got that part right and hopefully their WvWvW zone will feel open enough.

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  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by unclemo

    This is BS!  If they're not going to have Faction V Faction V Faction PvP then what's the freakin' point of having 3 factions???????????????????????????????????

    Once again the carebears are catered to because they dominate the market and the PvPers get left in the dust.  I was hoping this would finally be my DAOC replacement.  Too bad really.  I guess the world can't have enough WoW clones 'eh?  No need to break the mold  and think outside of the box right?  

    Looks like Guild Wars 2 is our last hope.

    First what gives you the idea TSW is a WOW clone? Second GW2 has no open world PVP either. If anything they are doing pretty much the same thing TSW is doing with their 3 faction PVP. Segregated PVP areas.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ThorqemadaThorqemada Member UncommonPosts: 1,282

    I am happy that there is no FFA-PvP and the lore really does not fit open warfare between the Factions.

    DAOC has not really Open-World-PvP in the meaning that you can fight everywhere and that is one of the best decisions ever made in that game.
    What DAOC has is one of the most meaningfull PvP-systems out in the market with its persistent war zones and the impact on the whole realm which make it...hmmm...World Impacting Restricted Zone PvP.

    TSW offers at least the possibility to bring out an expansion that offers Daoc like PvP at times - obvioulsy like a hidden war!
    I have no clue how PvP is implemented yet but if they do that it could be a great thing and get some more people into PvP than usually.

    At all its not SAD news its good news!

    PS: In reality there is also no open world pvp, try to pvp in peace or outside warzones...most parts of the whole earth be non-combat-zones!

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  • VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159

    Originally posted by Blutmaul

    I am happy that there is no FFA-PvP and the lore really does not fit open warfare between the Factions.

    DAOC has not really Open-World-PvP in the meaning that you can fight everywhere and that is one of the best decisions ever made in that game.

     

    Open world doesn't have anything to do with being FFA.  "Open world" just means not instanced.  Anyone can show up and jump into the fray.  It can be a designated PvP zone, as long as it's persistant and access is unrestricted.  

     

    This is why even calling WvWvW "open world" is a bit of a stretch, and it definately isn't FvF - but it looks like GW2 is the closest thing we're going to get :(

     

     

     

     

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435

    Originally posted by Blutmaul

     

    DAOC has not really Open-World-PvP in the meaning that you can fight everywhere and that is one of the best decisions ever made in that game.

    What DAOC has is one of the most meaningfull PvP-systems out in the market with its persistent war zones and the impact on the whole realm which make it...hmmm...World Impacting Restricted Zone PvP.

    It's surprising how many people seem to revere DAOC however don't really seem to understand that it was not an open world PVP game.   The Frontiers were really just a set of persistent battleground zones and restricted for the most part to the level 50 player.

    Now I used to play on Mordred which was the last surviving FFA, open world PVP server and it was definitely a niche player base.

     

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  • tank017tank017 Member Posts: 2,192

    Thats definitely a blow in my eyes(if true).I just assumed there would be some form of world pvp since there are 3 warring factions,seperate pvp zones,lakes or whatever.

     

    Or am I looking at all wrong? does he mean there will be places in the world(besides battlegrounds) to fight it out?

     

    just not anywhere and everywhere?

     

    if thats the case then Im fine with that.

  • OriousOrious Member UncommonPosts: 548

    Originally posted by tank017

    Thats definitely a blow in my eyes(if true).I just assumed there would be some form of world pvp since there are 3 warring factions,seperate pvp zones,lakes or whatever.

     

    Or am I looking at all wrong? does he mean there will be places in the world(besides battlegrounds) to fight it out?

     

    just not anywhere and everywhere?

     

    if thats the case then Im fine with that.

    Well... there's the 100+ area/instance/control point thing that I'd assume is probably open at all times.

    image

  • czekoskwigelczekoskwigel Member Posts: 458

    It actually makes sense for the PvP here to be relegated to instances... the whole idea of the secret world hinges on the fact that these secret societies remain secret.  They can't be killing each other left and right in public, it would draw too much attention.  As much as I like the idea of world PvP in an MMO, this really isn't the right one for it.

  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073

    Ragnar had a pretty good explanation why the world pvp isn't there. The game is called "THE SECRET WORLD", how much of a secret would this world be if the factions where dueling it out on fifth avenue out in the open? These organizations according to the world storyline are not supposed to exist, can't prove you don't exist by me putting a bullet into your head in broad daylight.

    Come on people, its a mmoR-P-G!

    *note the RPG part of the acronym ladies and gentlemen

    I swear I don't know why pvpers dont just play fps and just keep it moving. (im guessing all of you will be over Planetside 2? God I hope so)

    Yes it may be a lame excuse, but it makes sense. (I was there, I was the one who asked about other factions besides the three you get to choose from, and they confirmed that there will be other secret organizations, one of them called The Phoenicians and the other tied into South Africa.

    image

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  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300

    Originally posted by Maquiame

    Ragnar had a pretty good explanation why the world pvp isn't there. The game is called "THE SECRET WORLD", how much of a secret would this world be if the factions where dueling it out on fifth avenue out in the open? These organizations according to the world storyline are not supposed to exist, can't prove you don't exist by me putting a bullet into your head in broad daylight.

    Come on people, its a mmoR-P-G!

    *note the RPG part of the acronym ladies and gentlemen

    I swear I don't know why pvpers dont just play fps and just keep it moving. (im guessing all of you will be over Planetside 2? God I hope so)

    Yes it may be a lame excuse, but it makes sense. (I was there, I was the one who asked about other factions besides the three you get to choose from, and they confirmed that there will be other secret organizations, one of them called The Phoenicians and the other tied into South Africa.

    For the same reason you don't  just play single player rpg's...now stop crying because some people were upset about the game not having open world pvp...its simply a conversation.  Also, Ragnars main reason for not having the open world pvp was NOT because of the societies being secret...that was a small part of it.  The reason was because the societies need to work together to win, that said a governing body enforces that the groups not fight one another. 

     

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  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300

    The worst part of this, is that it does make sense to have open world pvp...I get that some don't want it, and I respect that there are different types of players, but you can make pvp make sense in any game.  More and more games are beginning to have pve and pvp servers, which is great.  Here's the problem that i'm starting to see though.  Pver's want the more content driven story lines, pvpers want the open world and I can kill who I want when I need to, etc.  So you would think that its a simple solution, give the pver's waht they want and then make a pvp server for the pvpers.  Well...thats not happening because the pve community is far more vocal and active in forums,e tc...so the pvers get what they want, then the pvers begin saying what they want on a pvp server, so we get a pve server with no pvp, then a pvp server with so many guidelines that its still making the pver's happy and the pvpers get nothing.  I will say, SWTOR seems to have it right, they will be catering to both sides...I didn't think they were...but they have. Wow, they did it right...like the game or not...they have a true pve and pvp server (many)  Game developers need to really look at this as the way to go...

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  • czekoskwigelczekoskwigel Member Posts: 458

    Originally posted by afhn2110

    The worst part of this, is that it does make sense to have open world pvp...I get that some don't want it, and I respect that there are different types of players, but you can make pvp make sense in any game.  More and more games are beginning to have pve and pvp servers, which is great.  Here's the problem that i'm starting to see though.  Pver's want the more content driven story lines, pvpers want the open world and I can kill who I want when I need to, etc.  So you would think that its a simple solution, give the pver's waht they want and then make a pvp server for the pvpers.  Well...thats not happening because the pve community is far more vocal and active in forums,e tc...so the pvers get what they want, then the pvers begin saying what they want on a pvp server, so we get a pve server with no pvp, then a pvp server with so many guidelines that its still making the pver's happy and the pvpers get nothing.  I will say, SWTOR seems to have it right, they will be catering to both sides...I didn't think they were...but they have. Wow, they did it right...like the game or not...they have a true pve and pvp server (many)  Game developers need to really look at this as the way to go...

    They have made pvp that makes sense in this game... it's simply not open world, which would NOT make sense.

  • VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159

    For some of us, instanced battlegrounds never make sense.  In any MMO.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

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