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"forum goers are a vocal minority"

Nerf09Nerf09 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,953Member

Really? 

I've noticed something while surfing around youtube, while I don't comment or or rate videos I'm pretty much in agreement with how it is rated by a small "vocal minority".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1NrYY_BIWU&feature=related

357,000 views

1,600 ratings

That is 1/2 of 1% that actually bother to click the rating button.   Do you like this video or are you in agreement with the 1/2 of 1%?

«134

Comments

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,933Member Uncommon

    Needs more cowbells. :-)

     

    But with regards to MMORPGs... yes this forum isn't a random sampling of MMO players, in fact it's a better representation of disgruntled MMO vets looking for something worth playing.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

     

    My views are both correct and not representative of the mainstream ;-)
  • JoliustJoliust stoughton, WIPosts: 1,329Member

    That video is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my entire life.

    Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.

  • KuraphimaruKuraphimaru Mississauga, ONPosts: 1,290Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    Originally posted by RefMinor


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

     

    My views are both correct and not representative of the mainstream ;-)

    haha, we would all say the same thing Mr Funny.

    He is right, his view is correct and so is mine, even though they may fundamentaly differ, because who are you to tell us that our opinion about one title or another is wrong?

     

    edit~

    Awesome video btw.

    image

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,953Member

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

  • midmagicmidmagic Portland, ORPosts: 614Member

    This needs a poll so we can see if the "vocal minority" agrees with the "vocal minority".

    Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

    You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a random sample is. Youtube commenters and MMO forum posters are not a random sample of the Youtube-viewing population or the MMO-playing population. It's a biased sample, because the sample is self-selecting. Only the people who want to participate end up as part of the sample.

    image
  • midmagicmidmagic Portland, ORPosts: 614Member

    Originally posted by GreenHell

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

    I believe the reason is more likely that sandbox is harder to develop and less established as a genre. Both make a high-budget sandbox game a significantly more risky venture due to unknowns in the market place and developmental paths.

    Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.

  • midmagicmidmagic Portland, ORPosts: 614Member

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    Originally posted by midmagic


    Originally posted by GreenHell


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

    I believe the reason is more likely that sandbox is harder to develop and less established as a genre. Both make a high-budget sandbox game a significantly more risky venture due to unknowns in the market place and developmental paths.

    It is because the fabled sandbox does not exist. there are a mixture of both, but this insane idea that you can walk out into a world and do what the hell you want in it only exists in the real world.  If you are not there you are playing a game which is a themepark.  Grow up and get over it. 

    Grow up? Weeeeeeeeee. Na. I'll pass on that.

    Sandbox does not equal "do what the hell you want". I'm not even sure what that means as it is grossly non-specific. I can only assume you mean FFA PVP games but that is only a small subset of games that would be considered sandbox.

    Can you name a grossly popular sandbox game? How about a grossly popular MOG sandbox genre (this is different than the first game)?

    Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.

  • fonyfony hempstead, NYPosts: 755Member

    such a minority that Ubisoft's PC game sales have plummited 90%.

  • midmagicmidmagic Portland, ORPosts: 614Member

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    Originally posted by midmagic


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman


    Originally posted by midmagic


    Originally posted by GreenHell


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

    I believe the reason is more likely that sandbox is harder to develop and less established as a genre. Both make a high-budget sandbox game a significantly more risky venture due to unknowns in the market place and developmental paths.

    It is because the fabled sandbox does not exist. there are a mixture of both, but this insane idea that you can walk out into a world and do what the hell you want in it only exists in the real world.  If you are not there you are playing a game which is a themepark.  Grow up and get over it. 

    Grow up? Weeeeeeeeee. Na. I'll pass on that.

    Sandbox does not equal "do what the hell you want". I'm not even sure what that means as it is grossly non-specific. I can only assume you mean FFA PVP games but that is only a small subset of games that would be considered sandbox.

    Can you name a grossly popular sandbox game? How about a grossly popular MOG sandbox genre (this is different than the first game)?

    There is none for good reason.  The only grossly popular sandbox game is outside your front door.  Games have rules, otherwise it is no longer a game, if you wanna disregard rules run around your neighbourhood naked.   

    No rules = sandbox? Real life is a "sandbox"?

    Wwwwwweeeeeeee!! Logic errors. I'm fairly certain real life has rules.

    Anyways. Sandbox games are expected to, and must, have rules.

    Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,673Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

    Invalid comparison.

    Now, if you were talking about video votes on a YouTube-related forum then it would be a valid comparison.

     

    Many MMO forum regulars are under the impression that far more people visit or even know about the forums than actually do. The fact is that the average player rarely ever visits the forums. In my experience, the players that do are typically:



    • players with an issue/problem they are looking to resolve


    • players that are significantly more invested in the game


    • player with a certain interest in interacting with te forum community


    • players looking to engage the devs and veteran player

    Of the three, the first one is most likely to contain the casual players and the new players, however once their issue is resolved - depending on the resolution and tone of the responses -  they usually don't return unless they have another question. The rest are dominated by veteran players and other players that are often far more knowledgeable about or far more interested in the game and its mechanics, design and future than most players are.

     

    As a result, the forum visitors often don't accurately represent the overall voice and views of the playerbase, however they can be a great indicator of the mood and climate of the community itself.

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,953Member

    Originally posted by GreenHell

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

    All hail the corporate masters who know everything.

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,953Member

    Originally posted by Disdena

    Originally posted by Nerf09


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

    You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a random sample is. Youtube commenters and MMO forum posters are not a random sample of the Youtube-viewing population or the MMO-playing population. It's a biased sample, because the sample is self-selecting. Only the people who want to participate end up as part of the sample.

    Only people who want to participate post in forums.

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,953Member

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Nerf09


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

    Invalid comparison.

    Now, if you were talking about video votes on a YouTube-related forum then it would be a valid comparison.

     

    Many MMO forum regulars are under the impression that far more people visit or even know about the forums than actually do. The fact is that the average player rarely ever visits the forums. In my experience, the players that do are typically:



    • players with an issue/problem they are looking to resolve


    • players that are significantly more invested in the game


    • player with a certain interest in interacting with te forum community


    • players looking to engage the devs and veteran player

    Those who vote on Youtube

    -have an issue or a problem with the vidoe

    -are significantly interested in video

    -are so insanely bored they will post on youtube some comment usually consisting of 1337 speak.

    -think they have some sort of influence on the world outside of their imagination

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,953Member

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    Originally posted by Nerf09


    Originally posted by GreenHell


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

    All hail the corporate masters who know everything.

    Assuming you are British, would you prefer a corporate entity on the basis of previous experience of profit making endevours (therefore popular) to choose a design team, or David Cameron???

    Brit-ish?  Why would you assume that matey.  What gave you the impression I was Brit-ish, scallywag?

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,953Member

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    Originally posted by Nerf09


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman


    Originally posted by Nerf09


    Originally posted by GreenHell


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

    All hail the corporate masters who know everything.

    Assuming you are British, would you prefer a corporate entity on the basis of previous experience of profit making endevours (therefore popular) to choose a design team, or David Cameron???

    Brit-ish?  Why would you assume that matey.  What gave you the impression I was Brit-ish, scallywag?

    You can tell a Brit a mile off, its the bad teeth, but guess you agree then. 

    Put another shrimp on the barbie?

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,753Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

    It's more like pointing out that the success of more successful videos speaks for itself, and the votes are irrelevant.

    Although in the case of successful games, we're talking about people who not only clicked the link one time (as in a youtube vid) but actually kept coming back week after week.  Which is considerably different from youtube hits or votes.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • xm522xm522 Miami, FLPosts: 114Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by midmagic

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman


    Originally posted by midmagic


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman


    Originally posted by midmagic


    Originally posted by GreenHell


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

    I believe the reason is more likely that sandbox is harder to develop and less established as a genre. Both make a high-budget sandbox game a significantly more risky venture due to unknowns in the market place and developmental paths.

    It is because the fabled sandbox does not exist. there are a mixture of both, but this insane idea that you can walk out into a world and do what the hell you want in it only exists in the real world.  If you are not there you are playing a game which is a themepark.  Grow up and get over it. 

    Grow up? Weeeeeeeeee. Na. I'll pass on that.

    Sandbox does not equal "do what the hell you want". I'm not even sure what that means as it is grossly non-specific. I can only assume you mean FFA PVP games but that is only a small subset of games that would be considered sandbox.

    Can you name a grossly popular sandbox game? How about a grossly popular MOG sandbox genre (this is different than the first game)?

    There is none for good reason.  The only grossly popular sandbox game is outside your front door.  Games have rules, otherwise it is no longer a game, if you wanna disregard rules run around your neighbourhood naked.   

    No rules = sandbox? Real life is a "sandbox"?

    Wwwwwweeeeeeee!! Logic errors. I'm fairly certain real life has rules.

    Anyways. Sandbox games are expected to, and must, have rules.

    actually... there is no logical error. i dont think you even understand the meaning of logic, but not going to explain.

    anyways, real life has 'rules' but those rules are more of suggestions for intergrating with w/e culture has those rules. Laws are also in the rule category, but this are mandatory. so on and so on.

    a sandbox game requires certain rules that are impossible to break without hacking (and hacking is not part of the game), therefore you are still being limited in what you can do.

    the only real sandbox is real life, and that is not even questionable. to question that real life was a sandbox are symptoms of ignorance.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,673Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by Nerf09


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

    Invalid comparison.

    Now, if you were talking about video votes on a YouTube-related forum then it would be a valid comparison.

     

    Many MMO forum regulars are under the impression that far more people visit or even know about the forums than actually do. The fact is that the average player rarely ever visits the forums. In my experience, the players that do are typically:



    • players with an issue/problem they are looking to resolve


    • players that are significantly more invested in the game


    • player with a certain interest in interacting with te forum community


    • players looking to engage the devs and veteran player

    Those who vote on Youtube

    -have an issue or a problem with the vidoe

    -are significantly interested in video

    -are so insanely bored they will post on youtube some comment usually consisting of 1337 speak.

    -think they have some sort of influence on the world outside of their imagination



    ...and that still doesn't change the fact that they are responding within the same application or communication channel rather than signing up for a completely optional  secondary or third-party channel, thus making it significantly more representative of the general view than posts on an MMO-related forum.

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • JoliustJoliust stoughton, WIPosts: 1,329Member


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by Nerf09


    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.
    That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.


    Invalid comparison.
    Now, if you were talking about video votes on a YouTube-related forum then it would be a valid comparison.
     
    Many MMO forum regulars are under the impression that far more people visit or even know about the forums than actually do. The fact is that the average player rarely ever visits the forums. In my experience, the players that do are typically:
    • players with an issue/problem they are looking to resolve
    • players that are significantly more invested in the game player with a certain interest in interacting with te forum community players looking to engage the devs and veteran player


    Those who vote on Youtube
    -have an issue or a problem with the vidoe
    -are significantly interested in video
    -are so insanely bored they will post on youtube some comment usually consisting of 1337 speak.
    -think they have some sort of influence on the world outside of their imagination

    ...and that still doesn't change the fact that they are responding within the same application or communication channel rather than signing up for a completely optional  secondary or third-party channel, thus making it significantly more representative of the general view than posts on an MMO-related forum.
     
     
     


    Does not change the fact that youtube is also not a heavily bias sample on what people like in videos. Since the population of people who watch videos is greatly larger than people who play MMO's it is likely significantly less representative.

    Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,673Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Joliust

     




    Originally posted by Loktofeit





    Originally posted by Nerf09






    Originally posted by Loktofeit








    Originally posted by Nerf09








    Originally posted by BigGayNorman



    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.






    That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.






    Invalid comparison.

    Now, if you were talking about video votes on a YouTube-related forum then it would be a valid comparison.

     

    Many MMO forum regulars are under the impression that far more people visit or even know about the forums than actually do. The fact is that the average player rarely ever visits the forums. In my experience, the players that do are typically:



    • players with an issue/problem they are looking to resolve


    • players that are significantly more invested in the game player with a certain interest in interacting with te forum community players looking to engage the devs and veteran player







    Those who vote on Youtube

    -have an issue or a problem with the vidoe

    -are significantly interested in video

    -are so insanely bored they will post on youtube some comment usually consisting of 1337 speak.

    -think they have some sort of influence on the world outside of their imagination




     

    ...and that still doesn't change the fact that they are responding within the same application or communication channel rather than signing up for a completely optional  secondary or third-party channel, thus making it significantly more representative of the general view than posts on an MMO-related forum.

     

     

     



     

    Does not change the fact that youtube is also not a heavily bias sample on what people like in videos. Since the population of people who watch videos is greatly larger than people who play MMO's it is likely significantly less representative.

     

    "Does not change the fact that youtube is also not a heavily bias sample on what people like in videos." Correct.

    "Does not change the fact that youtube is also not a heavily bias sample on what people like in YouTube videos." Incorrect. It is a relatively accurate overall picture of what people like in YouTube videos. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,953Member

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

     

     

    "Does not change the fact that youtube is also not a heavily bias sample on what people like in videos." Correct.

    "Does not change the fact that youtube is also not a heavily bias sample on what people like in YouTube videos." Incorrect. It is a relatively accurate overall picture of what people like in YouTube videos. 

    Just like the WOW forums are a relatively accurate overall picture of what people like in WOW, and MMORPG general forums are a relatively accurate overall picture in what people like in online games.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by GreenHell

    Originally posted by BigGayNorman

    The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

    You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

    +1 and damn do I wish that game was any more then a MMORPG.com myth

«134
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