Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

EVE Online: The Jester’s Lament

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,613MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

In today's One Jump Home column, MMORPG.com's Ross McDermott writes about the impending control of null-sec by two titans of EVE: Goonswarm Federation and Legion of xXDEATHXx. But there's more to the story than a simple non-invasion pact in the thought that null-sec is stagnant and that it's the events happening there that shape the rest of the EVE universe. Ross has several ideas to share with readers so head through the jump. Add your thoughts in the comments.

The reality is that stagnation is rampant in EVE Online. Specifically in null-sec. The super-capital arms race has resulted in the most terrifying of outcomes: the super-capital Mexican stand-off. However this appears to have evolved beyond the simple rules of 3 men pointing guns at each-other, rather today we see a shift towards a nuclear peace.

Read more of Ross McDermott's One Jump Home: The Jester’s Lament.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

image

Comments

  • NaralNaral Solway, MNPosts: 751Member Uncommon

    I wish I enjoyed this game as much as I enjoy reading about it. Well written.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    The Mittani's "DCF" document is a ploy to buy time for goons until the Winter expansion. Once supercapitals are heavily nerfed, the DRF will have lost their "win-button", and from my personal experience of fighting with them all through this year, their subcapital fighting skills are unexceptional at best - most of their good PvPers have left to join various NPC-space alliances.. Once they've lost their supercap advantage, they won't have the numbers or the skills to defend such a huge swathe of space.

    The DRF hegemony will be immediately attacked by numerous smaller alliances, and Goonswarm will take the opportunity to defeat the DRF one at a time, perhaps excepting their long-time brosefs in XiX. RA look particularly vulnerable.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • PaybackXeroPaybackXero South Burlington, VTPosts: 33Member

    This is the reason I don't like EVE Online (Before I get jumped on - I don't want it changed. Lots of people seem to like it, and I don't want to bash their game).

    I enjoy pretty much every concept other than the ability to form those superalliances, and NIPs, etc.  I'd be all aboard if you could only have one account, alliances were limited to 15-20 people, and no two alliances were allowed to cooperate. Forced wars between all alliances (Not all the time, but fairly frequently) and a ship and sector limit would be great (Maybe 3 ships per person, with 1-2 capital ships per alliance. Only get 2 bases, in up to two sectors/systems. No domination of regions, races or null-sec.

    I realize that this is more human nature than a game flaw - which is why the devs would perma-ban people (Hardware ban maybe?) and alliances breaking the rules. You'd probably have to hire teams to comb the internet and guild forums to be truly effective. Just because we act that way in RL doesn't mean we should have the same freedoms in the game.

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member

    Originally posted by Malcanis

    The Mittani's "DCF" document is a ploy to buy time for goons until the Winter expansion. Once supercapitals are heavily nerfed, the DRF will have lost their "win-button", and from my personal experience of fighting with them all through this year, their subcapital fighting skills are unexceptional at best - most of their good PvPers have left to join various NPC-space alliances.. Once they've lost their supercap advantage, they won't have the numbers or the skills to defend such a huge swathe of space.

    The DRF hegemony will be immediately attacked by numerous smaller alliances, and Goonswarm will take the opportunity to defeat the DRF one at a time, perhaps excepting their long-time brosefs in XiX. RA look particularly vulnerable.

    Agreed.

  • cosycosy ColentinaPosts: 3,304Member
    CCP can add the "lost regions" and to access them using WH the problem will be solved delayed few years

    BestSigEver :P
    image

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by PaybackXero

    This is the reason I don't like EVE Online (Before I get jumped on - I don't want it changed. Lots of people seem to like it, and I don't want to bash their game).
    I enjoy pretty much every concept other than the ability to form those superalliances, and NIPs, etc.  I'd be all aboard if you could only have one account, alliances were limited to 15-20 people, and no two alliances were allowed to cooperate. Forced wars between all alliances (Not all the time, but fairly frequently) and a ship and sector limit would be great (Maybe 3 ships per person, with 1-2 capital ships per alliance. Only get 2 bases, in up to two sectors/systems. No domination of regions, races or null-sec.
    I realize that this is more human nature than a game flaw - which is why the devs would perma-ban people (Hardware ban maybe?) and alliances breaking the rules. You'd probably have to hire teams to comb the internet and guild forums to be truly effective. Just because we act that way in RL doesn't mean we should have the same freedoms in the game.

     

    I think alliances are ok, they build up and ego's knock them down every time.

    I would like to see 1 account per player though, but CCP need the cash too much to let that happen.
  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    One account per person would be horrible, it would also be pretty hard to police.  The way Eve works, is that you can only train one character per account.  If you they allow you to train more characters per account, having only one would be fine.  It just takes too long for someone to be able to train everything, it's not possible really for your average player.

     

    Actually, the game is kind of boring right now.  Was not bad a month of so ago, but recently it's just gotten pretty bad in my opinion.  It's just stale.  There have not been any decent changes to the game besides incursions and planetary interaction in a while and the poor sov mechanics from Dominion are just wearing on most people.  Everyone seems to be kind of farting around, waiting for something to good to happen with the winter patch (but will probably all let down).

    image

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    As long as Eve is about who brings more capitals, their great pvp game will suffer.  Big ships need small ships protection, they are too vulnerable otherwise.

  • I agree..fun to read about. I would even watch battles if I could (thought that would end up as live video in the captains quarters..silly me) if I could. But playing it takes too much of a time sink and investment of yourself for me to get involved. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the way Eve works but it's just not for me being a mostly solo type player these days. But, the few months I did spend in Eve several years ago made some good memories but we mostly just mined. Any game devoted to pvp is always going to be limited by the very nature of the types of players it attracts. If I could jump into a ship made available by a corp. at war I would gladly do it if nothing more was expected of me than 30minutes of fighting but I can't see that ever happening.

  • SamhaelSamhael Huntsville, ALPosts: 697Member Uncommon

    Hmmm.. No bump or bury clicky. This reads more like a blog than an article though.

  • AdamaiAdamai derbyPosts: 469Member

    once upon a time in eve online!! there was no super capital ships, there wasnt even capital ships and the battle ship was the nighty sword in which everyone sort!  soon every one had battle ships and eve stagnated to the point where something had to be done, then came the capital ships carriers and ddread naughts along with super haulers, again these too become common place to the point where they where no longer threatening and something else had to be done, so they brought us super caps lol hope your beginning to see the link between these chain of events.  and once again there are so many of these end game ships in the game its pointless.

     

    eve is stagnent because of these ships. allowing one or two major alliances to band together to wipe every one else out and own the entirity of null sec is an utterly stupid idea to say the least, these two alliances will controll the very fabric of these monolithic ships meaning no one and i mean no one will be able to ever challange them. eve will be truely lost.  its already bad that if you want 0.0 space you have to have super caps to take control of some! if goons and death do this and succeed then eve wont be worth playing lol 

     

    too many one man bands in the game to put up a reasonable resistance against such over whelming odds, generally in eve there is so much disposition among the players they are unwilling to put there petty needs and wants aside to form super corps strong enough and dedicated enough to become that which goon swarm and death have become.

     

    why!

     

    well death and goons are not just simple eve alliances, no no! they are world wide gaming communities thats where their numbers come from. you cannot achieve that kind of size by simple minded antics of guild leading in a game such as eve, you have to think bigger be braver be bolder and be willing to group with those you wouldnt usually group with for a much greater cause than your own reason for paying a sub.

    eve is stagnant because of an ongoing selfish need from thousands of little corps all thinking they know better and wanting to play there way!!! well soon my friends you will be playing how your told to play lol well in null sec atleast.

     

    happy space fareing. if your all smart you will stop worrying about your 20 man corp neighbours who keep camping your gate for haulers and starting thinking a little bigger and concidering a merger with a much more competetive already established alliance..

     

    eve is past the stage of new kids on the block, not enough room for new comers sorry guys but its the truth.

  • palulalulapalulalula vukovarPosts: 655Member

    It is funy to read some of comments up there. First you want some sandbox game and  now some of you want to limit this freedom. Is there in real life any limitation on military forces and  alliances?? I don't think so.  Is it in real life like that? Yes it is, you have on one side big alliance like NATO and on other side Russia, China  and rest of independent countries.

  • cosycosy ColentinaPosts: 3,304Member

    hmm no link to that map

    image

     

    BestSigEver :P
    image

  • Lester_CreechLester_Creech nelson, BCPosts: 515Member Common

    as fun as this was to read, it has thoroughly confirmed my suspicions that EVE is infintely too well established for new players to join. i hardly understood a word of the setting specific language you used, but i did absorb the vastness of the established powers you describe. 

     

    unless one or more of these galactic juggernauts has a newb training division, i dont see how anyone could, or would want to, try to join this game at this stage. i feel like id be more likely to trade a paper clip up to a giant mansion than to ever be able to rise to a level of even minute influence in this game at this point.

  • Lester_CreechLester_Creech nelson, BCPosts: 515Member Common

    Originally posted by Adamai

    once upon a time in eve online!! there was no super capital ships, there wasnt even capital ships and the battle ship was the nighty sword in which everyone sort!  soon every one had battle ships and eve stagnated to the point where something had to be done, then came the capital ships carriers and ddread naughts along with super haulers, again these too become common place to the point where they where no longer threatening and something else had to be done, so they brought us super caps lol hope your beginning to see the link between these chain of events.  and once again there are so many of these end game ships in the game its pointless.

     

    eve is stagnent because of these ships. allowing one or two major alliances to band together to wipe every one else out and own the entirity of null sec is an utterly stupid idea to say the least, these two alliances will controll the very fabric of these monolithic ships meaning no one and i mean no one will be able to ever challange them. eve will be truely lost.  its already bad that if you want 0.0 space you have to have super caps to take control of some! if goons and death do this and succeed then eve wont be worth playing lol 

     

    too many one man bands in the game to put up a reasonable resistance against such over whelming odds, generally in eve there is so much disposition among the players they are unwilling to put there petty needs and wants aside to form super corps strong enough and dedicated enough to become that which goon swarm and death have become.

     

    why!

     

    well death and goons are not just simple eve alliances, no no! they are world wide gaming communities thats where their numbers come from. you cannot achieve that kind of size by simple minded antics of guild leading in a game such as eve, you have to think bigger be braver be bolder and be willing to group with those you wouldnt usually group with for a much greater cause than your own reason for paying a sub.

    eve is stagnant because of an ongoing selfish need from thousands of little corps all thinking they know better and wanting to play there way!!! well soon my friends you will be playing how your told to play lol well in null sec atleast.

     

    happy space fareing. if your all smart you will stop worrying about your 20 man corp neighbours who keep camping your gate for haulers and starting thinking a little bigger and concidering a merger with a much more competetive already established alliance..

     

    eve is past the stage of new kids on the block, not enough room for new comers sorry guys but its the truth.

    jedi's man, we need to use the force. that will unseat the evil empire...

  • ammoniteammonite SANDBACHPosts: 113Member

    Originally posted by Cruoris

    as fun as this was to read, it has thoroughly confirmed my suspicions that EVE is infintely too well established for new players to join. i hardly understood a word of the setting specific language you used, but i did absorb the vastness of the established powers you describe. 

     

    unless one or more of these galactic juggernauts has a newb training division, i dont see how anyone could, or would want to, try to join this game at this stage. i feel like id be more likely to trade a paper clip up to a giant mansion than to ever be able to rise to a level of even minute influence in this game at this point.


     



    For truth.

     

    image

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by palulalula

    It is funy to read some of comments up there. First you want some sandbox game and  now some of you want to limit this freedom. Is there in real life any limitation on military forces and  alliances?? I don't think so.  Is it in real life like that? Yes it is, you have on one side big alliance like NATO and on other side Russia, China  and rest of independent countries.

    This is a game we are talking about, not real life.   Wide open sandbox games don't exist because human nature always wants to be on the winning side.  Even the most basic sandbox games still have rules to limit such.

    CCP's problem is that it is not easy for young corps or alliances to do anything in low sec or 0.0 space.  They do not want to anger the veterans either.  So any solution will be greeted with dislike by some faction.

  • AutemOxAutemOx Fullerton, CAPosts: 1,704Member

    It is difficult to balance a game, and I think the players will be accepting if CCP nerfs the capital ships.

    I would probably play EVE if I had more time to or if I felt like I could have an impact without putting in a ton of time, but I feel neither.  Although its a sandbox in many ways, I still feel like my creativity is a little stiffled in EVE.  Maybe a combination of the cold steel of ships and the long boring grind trying to earn the cash to have some fun in the game.  But I really enjoy reading about it and hope it turns out for the best.

    And I hope the players find ways to show appreciation for this game publicly as they also fight for the devs to listen to their wishes for future updates.

    Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon

    Back in the days... in December 2005 there was an expansion called Red Moon Rising. This was the day when things started to go wrong. The introduction of Titans, Carriers and Motherships that came along with this expansion soon showed it's ugly face...

    Before that time we had some rather balanced battlefields. The "great northern war" was fought with battleships and tactics and fleetcoordination was key to success. These were the great days of EvE imho.

    By the end of 2006 capitals were dominating the battlefield allready and I basically lost interest in 0.0 warfare. However, not all was lost, as you could still find a place in the universe as a rather small but dedicated group.

    In 2007 there was this project called "Tortuga", when some powerhouses went and tried to fight BoB in Delve. This was the time when it had to became obvious to all, that we were playing "Capitals Online" from now on.

    The final nail in the coffin was the introduction of jump-freighters and jump-bridges, which made logistics and maintenance of large chunks of space too easy. A handful of players without military backup could now move ressources and items in near safety and keep the systems running and the military could now move whole fleets from one end of their territory to the other within half an hour. EvE got too small and no room was left for small entities anymore.

    So we're looking at the problems for 4-5 years now. It's nothing that happened sometime in the recent history of EvE and still people keep playing the game for whatever reasons.

    I aswell keep logging in now and then to have some fun with old friends, but I've long ago stopped being interested in territorial warfare. I'm part of one of these smaller entities in 0.0. We still have some space and there's still good fights to have now and then, but in the end it's pointless to try to defend the space against the big players.

    The whole capital-ship and sovereignity-system needs to be changed drastically to make the 0.0-warfare fun again, but I don't see this happening, because the changes would have to be so drastical, that even the CFC would rather keep the current status.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Originally posted by Yalexy

    /snip

    The whole capital-ship and sovereignity-system needs to be changed drastically to make the 0.0-warfare fun again, but I don't see this happening, because the changes would have to be so drastical, that even the CFC would rather keep the current status.

    'The Mittani' head of Goonswarm (and thus CFC) has publicly stated that 'if there is a butan that'll reset EVE, I'll push it in a heart beat'.

    The SuperCap nerf CCP talked about at PAX seemed fairly drastic and we are already seeing the first nerfs in SISI.

     

    Also, CALLED THIS! :)

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4460684

     

     

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • kostoslavkostoslav somborPosts: 459Member

    So MM lost their teritories, that means all my ships are gone. Everything I had was on their stations. :)

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by Yalexy
    /snip
    The whole capital-ship and sovereignity-system needs to be changed drastically to make the 0.0-warfare fun again, but I don't see this happening, because the changes would have to be so drastical, that even the CFC would rather keep the current status.

    'The Mittani' head of Goonswarm (and thus CFC) has publicly stated that 'if there is a butan that'll reset EVE, I'll push it in a heart beat'.
    The SuperCap nerf CCP talked about at PAX seemed fairly drastic and we are already seeing the first nerfs in SISI.
     
    Also, CALLED THIS! :)
    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4460684
     
     

    The CFC is only talking about changes in their favour. Nerfing supercaps alone won't be nearly enough to change the game into what we've had five years ago.

    Necessary changes would be:

    1. change the role of supercaps into big fleet-support-vessels without alot of firepower themselves
    -> supercarriers = carrying tons of ships for resupply during the battles (atleast room for 50 assembled battleships)
    -> titans = mobile stations with cloningbays, repair- and large ship-hangars (atleast room for 100 assembled battleships), removal of jumpbridge

    2. removal of jumpfreighters and jumpbridges
    -> making maintenance and logistics for large territories very hard
    -> reducing the ability to rapidly move fleets across large distances

    3. sovereignity-systems overhaul
    -> no single system sovereignity anymore, only constellations can be claimed
    -> claiming sovereignity through activity instead of defending/destroying structures
    -> activity-based sovereignity = less unused spaced = more room for smaller entities
    -> true-sec dependent on activity

    4. destructable outposts
    -> every item built by players is destuctable, outposts should be handled the same way
    -> less outposts lead to more centralized pockets in 0.0 = more room for smaller entities

    5. revamp of moon-mining (depleting moon-minerals)
    -> more dynamical instead of the static system currently in place
    -> more small wars about ressources instead of securing status quo by growing as big as possible

    These proposals have been made for the last three years allready, as these changes would lead to a very dynamic 0.0 again with alot of room for small entities. These changes would aswell make it near impossible to grow as big as the current powerblocks, as you constantly need to move and resettle with less agility then currently available. It is allmost impossible to move and resettle every few month with 10k members. Or you stay where you are instead of fighting for the best ressources and hope that your claimed systems spawn some good stuff once the moons are refreshed.

    All this stuff sure isn't what The Mittani wants to see happening, as this would work against the swarm.

  • FLYONTHEWALLFLYONTHEWALL ChernobylPosts: 1Member

    I love how this is characterized as an ultimatum to CCP. What a bunch of crap. If Goons and Test want to show CCP how much power they have, order your alliances to log off for a week.

    What a complete bunch of PR nonsense.

  • idgaradidgarad NOwhere, MNPosts: 174Member

    Originally posted by Yalexy

    Back in the days... in December 2005 there was an expansion called Red Moon Rising. This was the day when things started to go wrong. The introduction of Titans, Carriers and Motherships that came along with this expansion soon showed it's ugly face...

    Before that time we had some rather balanced battlefields. The "great northern war" was fought with battleships and tactics and fleetcoordination was key to success. These were the great days of EvE imho.

    By the end of 2006 capitals were dominating the battlefield allready and I basically lost interest in 0.0 warfare. However, not all was lost, as you could still find a place in the universe as a rather small but dedicated group.

    In 2007 there was this project called "Tortuga", when some powerhouses went and tried to fight BoB in Delve. This was the time when it had to became obvious to all, that we were playing "Capitals Online" from now on.

    The final nail in the coffin was the introduction of jump-freighters and jump-bridges, which made logistics and maintenance of large chunks of space too easy. A handful of players without military backup could now move ressources and items in near safety and keep the systems running and the military could now move whole fleets from one end of their territory to the other within half an hour. EvE got too small and no room was left for small entities anymore.

    So we're looking at the problems for 4-5 years now. It's nothing that happened sometime in the recent history of EvE and still people keep playing the game for whatever reasons.

    I aswell keep logging in now and then to have some fun with old friends, but I've long ago stopped being interested in territorial warfare. I'm part of one of these smaller entities in 0.0. We still have some space and there's still good fights to have now and then, but in the end it's pointless to try to defend the space against the big players.

    The whole capital-ship and sovereignity-system needs to be changed drastically to make the 0.0-warfare fun again, but I don't see this happening, because the changes would have to be so drastical, that even the CFC would rather keep the current status.


     

    Real simple. Get the NPC corps out there active in SOV. Lets see Goonswarm throwdown against Guristas pushing from one side and Serpentis from another. Putting the Empires and NPC corps into the SOV mix gives CCP a tool to control player growth in 0.0 by putting additional, non-player controlled pressure on the SOV mechanic.

     

Sign In or Register to comment.