I wouldn't go so far as to say "end of an era". the game isn't that drastically different from the norm. Matter of fact, that might be what hurts it, if it has any weak points at all. I mean, I'm looking forward to playing it, but I'm not expecting it to blow me away other than with story. GW2 on the other hand, now THAT looks like it COULD change the genre, or end the era as you say.
I am a little skeptical about GW2. I will give it a go, but let us see how they will deliver all those promises.
About all the criticism around SWTOR I think that just because a game isn't tailored towards some folks wishes and expectations, it doesn't make them smarter than the full crew behind it... I mean, I have all these visions and ideas and etc etc... Well you are very self confident at least... But the issue is that for every single smart whiner out there, there are thousands of buyers, and guess who rules the trend? Sandboxes haven't been much of a success as far as I know...
I always wished that I played SWG when it first came out. But with it being shut down and SWTOR coming out I'm kind of happy I never played it.
The SWG vets are rather pathetic and it is really annoying. You act that SWG was the only game that went down the crapper and pissed off its fanbase. Stop hating on SWTOR because you are mad at what SOE did to SWG. Its done and over with now move on!
I have always said that there are 3 things SWG vets need.
SW:G was not a game when it first came out. It was an empty shell. Combat was boring, the worlds, while large, were empty, and the randomly located "spawn points" for critters was silly. The beta testers of SWG were screaming to not release it, but Koster went ahead anyways. And the Macroing... LOL. A game where you played it by not playing it! Fantastic. It certainly was a game for adults.... with an IQ less than 75 perhaps.
BTW, "True Star Wars fans" didn't care a whit about SW:G. So the ending of SW:G is not a cause to make the end of 2011 bittersweet.
SWG (before Jedi) was a Star Wars game for the adult, e.g., player driven economy, gigantic worlds with player housing, player cities, player malls, superior crafting, in-depth surveying and harvesting, endless clothing options, deep space content, randomized item stats, incentives to use the social tools (cantinas / med centers) etc.
Most everything about SWG was self-sustaining. There was always something to do.
SWTOR, however, is a Star Wars game for the youth. It has story (not yours of course), which will ultimately come to an end. And what of end-game? Can I start a store? Can I plant a house? Can I go off and explore gigantic worlds? Can I go dicken' around in my starship? Can I plop down a guild hall? Can I do anything other than talk to quest giver, collect bear paws, and participate in redundant instanced PvP (Warzones)? NO.
SWTOR is so tied down and linear it's not even funny.
You know, Ive been playing SWG since beta. I'll be there when the lights go out. Its a great mmorpg. But to say that it was a more adult/mature game than SWTOR? You must be smoking something. Do you know why SWG was gutted? If you saw the forums pre-CU, it was nonstop whining and childish tantrums. It was thousands of self centered, immature, "adults" pissing and moaning about their jedi, or smuggler, or /insert every unfinished profession in the game (read: every profession).
SWG in its current, gimpy state, has more features than TOR and GW2 combined. But that is a credit to the developers, not the players. We had our chance to eat at the big boy table, but we embarrassed our parents in front of their dinner guests. Now we are back in our high chairs with a sippy cup. And some people still dont get that their own actions got them there.
SW:G was not a game when it first came out. It was an empty shell. Combat was boring, the worlds, while large, were empty, and the randomly located "spawn points" for critters was silly. The beta testers of SWG were screaming to not release it, but Koster went ahead anyways. And the Macroing... LOL. A game where you played it by not playing it! Fantastic. It certainly was a game for adults.... with an IQ less than 75 perhaps.
BTW, "True Star Wars fans" didn't care a whit about SW:G. So the ending of SW:G is not a cause to make the end of 2011 bittersweet.
I will say, SWG was the only game where, after playing for a few days, I neatly created a recursive macro to grind for me while I went to work all day. Just lay prone and go to town... never had any problems, never was kicked or reported or anything.
SWG was great.. but it was the community that made it great... everything else (apart from JTL and the economy) was lackluster. The NGE which was supposed to breathe life, succinctly killed it, as then the combat (which was never really working well) was broken.
The best parts about SWG were ...
1) It was Star Wars
2) The community (the community that loved star wars)
3) The setting (star wars setting)
4) The Economy (buying and selling star wars gear)
5) JTL (owning and flying star wars ships in a type of simulator)
6) Housing (which was great but most were ghost towns after you realized they were just glorified meeting places or shops at the best of times).
As much fun as I had there with the friends I met... the game wasn't what I enjoyed, and after playing SWTOR for a while, I am happy I preordered.
When I got that email informing me of the launch date ... well I think this best describes it,
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
So how would everyone feel if two years into SWTOR they changed the combat to turnbased and threw out the quests and declared SWTOR to be a sandbox game? Anyone think there might be some themepark fans coming over to mmorpg.com to complain on the forums?
That's the thing about human nature though. Someone's walking along and they slip on a bannana peel, and quite a few people are gonna laugh and think...moron needs to watch where he's walking. BUT, when they themselves slip on a peel...who put that there?! That's a safety hazard.
SWG vets remind us that gaming companies have a responsibility to deal honestly with the customer. Stringing customers along with promises you have no intention of keeping, lying, making fun of customers...these are all things SOE did and vets held them to the fire over it. It's a lesson to other mmo companies what not to do.
This is definitely nothing new to anyone here. Basic theme park/generic mmo since the WoW days. My take is you'll be bored within 4 months and you'll be looking for the next best thing very soon. Only the Bioware diehards will stay, well some of them...
So how would everyone feel if two years into SWTOR they changed the combat to turnbased and threw out the quests and declared SWTOR to be a sandbox game? Anyone think there might be some themepark fans coming over to mmorpg.com to complain on the forums?
That's the thing about human nature though. Someone's walking along and they slip on a bannana peel, and quite a few people are gonna laugh and think...moron needs to watch where he's walking. BUT, when they themselves slip on a peel...who put that there?! That's a safety hazard.
SWG vets remind us that gaming companies have a responsibility to deal honestly with the customer. Stringing customers along with promises you have no intention of keeping, lying, making fun of customers...these are all things SOE did and vets held them to the fire over it. It's a lesson to other mmo companies what not to do.
I can tell you what my likeliest reaction would be: I'd be annoyed, try out the new game and if I didn't like the changes the company made with their own MMORPG, I'd leave.
I'd make some comments about it on forum, but within months I'd have moved on to other games and interests that appealed to me. Because in the end, the MMORPG wouldn't be my life, nor would it feel like my gf slept with someone else when a company changed a game I played, it would still be just a game, just one of many games and interests that I keep myself busy with.
However, from what I've seen over the years, a number of SWG vets are far different from that reaction, and to me it feels like it was a huge, major part of their life and their feelings and emotions towards SOE and the NGE change are on the level as if their partner had betrayed them and committed adultery.
Originally posted by SaintViktor
This is definitely nothing new to anyone here. Basic theme park/generic mmo since the WoW days. My take is you'll be bored within 4 months and you'll be looking for the next best thing very soon. Only the Bioware diehards will stay, well some of them...
Yawn. Or not. The fact that the majority of people who playtested seemed to like what they played, while only a handful who are so burnt out that they can only enjoy MMO gameplay that 's completely different from what they played before didn't, says enough I think. To me, it looks like some people lack the ability to grasp that tastes and gaming preferences differ and mileage can vary, and that if they don't like something, that doesn't mean that the whole world doesn't like that something or even the majority dislikes it
A case of common sense and logic to me, which sadly is often quite lacking on this site, looking at the daily forum debates passing by.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So how would everyone feel if two years into SWTOR they changed the combat to turnbased and threw out the quests and declared SWTOR to be a sandbox game? Anyone think there might be some themepark fans coming over to mmorpg.com to complain on the forums?
That's the thing about human nature though. Someone's walking along and they slip on a bannana peel, and quite a few people are gonna laugh and think...moron needs to watch where he's walking. BUT, when they themselves slip on a peel...who put that there?! That's a safety hazard.
SWG vets remind us that gaming companies have a responsibility to deal honestly with the customer. Stringing customers along with promises you have no intention of keeping, lying, making fun of customers...these are all things SOE did and vets held them to the fire over it. It's a lesson to other mmo companies what not to do.
I can tell you what my likeliest reaction would be: I'd be annoyed, try out the new game and if I didn't like the changes the company made with their own MMORPG, I'd leave.
I'd make some comments about it on forum, but within months I'd have moved on to other games and interests that appealed to me. Because in the end, the MMORPG wouldn't be my life, nor would it feel like my gf slept with someone else when a company changed a game I played, it would still be just a game, just one of many games and interests that I keep myself busy with.
However, from what I've seen over the years, a number of SWG vets are far different from that reaction, and to me it feels like it was a huge, major part of their life and their feelings and emotions towards SOE and the NGE change are on the level as if their partner had betrayed them and committed adultery.
Originally posted by SaintViktor
This is definitely nothing new to anyone here. Basic theme park/generic mmo since the WoW days. My take is you'll be bored within 4 months and you'll be looking for the next best thing very soon. Only the Bioware diehards will stay, well some of them...
Yawn. Or not. The fact that the majority of people who playtested seemed to like what they played, while only a handful who are so burnt out that they can only enjoy MMO gameplay that 's completely different from what they played before didn't, says enough I think. To me, it looks like some people lack the ability to grasp that tastes and gaming preferences differ and mileage can vary, and that if they don't like something, that doesn't mean that the whole world doesn't like that something or even the majority dislikes it
A case of common sense and logic to me, which sadly is often quite lacking on this site, looking at the daily forum debates passing by.
Considering that I was a tester for little over a month you're not telling me anything that I don't already know. Also there is no way to tell if the majority in beta liked it or not. That is clearly subjective and an assumption on your part.
So how would everyone feel if two years into SWTOR they changed the combat to turnbased and threw out the quests and declared SWTOR to be a sandbox game? Anyone think there might be some themepark fans coming over to mmorpg.com to complain on the forums?
That's the thing about human nature though. Someone's walking along and they slip on a bannana peel, and quite a few people are gonna laugh and think...moron needs to watch where he's walking. BUT, when they themselves slip on a peel...who put that there?! That's a safety hazard.
SWG vets remind us that gaming companies have a responsibility to deal honestly with the customer. Stringing customers along with promises you have no intention of keeping, lying, making fun of customers...these are all things SOE did and vets held them to the fire over it. It's a lesson to other mmo companies what not to do.
I can tell you what my likeliest reaction would be: I'd be annoyed, try out the new game and if I didn't like the changes the company made with their own MMORPG, I'd leave.
I'd make some comments about it on forum, but within months I'd have moved on to other games and interests that appealed to me. Because in the end, the MMORPG wouldn't be my life, nor would it feel like my gf slept with someone else when a company changed a game I played, it would still be just a game, just one of many games and interests that I keep myself busy with.
However, from what I've seen over the years, a number of SWG vets are far different from that reaction, and to me it feels like it was a huge, major part of their life and their feelings and emotions towards SOE and the NGE change are on the level as if their partner had betrayed them and committed adultery.
Originally posted by SaintViktor
This is definitely nothing new to anyone here. Basic theme park/generic mmo since the WoW days. My take is you'll be bored within 4 months and you'll be looking for the next best thing very soon. Only the Bioware diehards will stay, well some of them...
Yawn. Or not. The fact that the majority of people who playtested seemed to like what they played, while only a handful who are so burnt out that they can only enjoy MMO gameplay that 's completely different from what they played before didn't, says enough I think. To me, it looks like some people lack the ability to grasp that tastes and gaming preferences differ and mileage can vary, and that if they don't like something, that doesn't mean that the whole world doesn't like that something or even the majority dislikes it
A case of common sense and logic to me, which sadly is often quite lacking on this site, looking at the daily forum debates passing by.
Considering that I was a tester for little over a month you're not telling me anything that I don't already know. Also there is no way to tell if the majority in beta liked it or not. That is clearly subjective and an assumption on your part.
Actually theres a very clear cut way to tell who liked it or not, a number of ways.
1) Forums, thats what they're there for.
2) Responses utilizing in-game surveying.
3) Metrics
.... all that together gives BioWare a very clear picture of who's playing, who's enjoying it, who isn't, and why they aren't.
I will not comment on anything other then that in regards to beta feedback.
It is impossible to please everyone. I felt the best part of SWG was when you would originally get XP as a crafter when someone used your item. That was awesome until people complained and jackholes would buy all the noobz stuff and destroy it. Sure I guess you could call it competition, but hey it was still crappy behavior. Never the less when they took out the ability to get ysage XP, that was when I knew the game was in trouble. When SOE could not put vehicles into the game while Planetside already had them, siting programming etc... I knew SWG was in trouble. Still I stuck with it and enjoyed the game til the CU and beastmasters made everyone else useless in combat lol.
So yes you cannot please everyone. However, there were plenty of things added to SWG after the fact and if the players demand it, I am sure we very well could see new planets where we can drop cities and guild halls and maybe even set up shops. Certainly space combat could be improved as well. No game that is going to be successful is going to be static.
Yawn. Or not. The fact that the majority of people who playtested seemed to like what they played, while only a handful who are so burnt out that they can only enjoy MMO gameplay that 's completely different from what they played before didn't, says enough I think. To me, it looks like some people lack the ability to grasp that tastes and gaming preferences differ and mileage can vary, and that if they don't like something, that doesn't mean that the whole world doesn't like that something or even the majority dislikes it
A case of common sense and logic to me, which sadly is often quite lacking on this site, looking at the daily forum debates passing by.
Considering that I was a tester for little over a month you're not telling me anything that I don't already know. Also there is no way to tell if the majority in beta liked it or not. That is clearly subjective and an assumption on your part.
Actually theres a very clear cut way to tell who liked it or not, a number of ways.
1) Forums, thats what they're there for.
2) Responses utilizing in-game surveying.
3) Metrics
.... all that together gives BioWare a very clear picture of who's playing, who's enjoying it, who isn't, and why they aren't.
I will not comment on anything other then that in regards to beta feedback.
Kind of what Maskedweasel is saying, and kind of what I was saying as well. But hey, if you don't like it, good for you, there's always other games to play or look forward to. The argument that because you don't like it, everyone else will neither is kind of nonsensical however, especially since quite a lot of people who've also been testing as well already stated that they enjoyed their time. Tastes differ and gaming preferences, remember? Not everyone is burnt out by playing certain MMO gameplay and features for years.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This is definitely nothing new to anyone here. Basic theme park/generic mmo since the WoW days. My take is you'll be bored within 4 months and you'll be looking for the next best thing very soon. Only the Bioware diehards will stay, well some of them...
LoL, they have the money and the resourcers to make new content, updates and patchs fast enough to not let people get bored, dont worry it doesnt look like swtor will fail like you wish.
SWG (before Jedi) was a Star Wars game for the adult, e.g., player driven economy, gigantic worlds with player housing, player cities, player malls, superior crafting, in-depth surveying and harvesting, endless clothing options, deep space content, randomized item stats, incentives to use the social tools (cantinas / med centers) etc.
Most everything about SWG was self-sustaining. There was always something to do.
SWTOR, however, is a Star Wars game for the youth. It has story (not yours of course), which will ultimately come to an end. And what of end-game? Can I start a store? Can I plant a house? Can I go off and explore gigantic worlds? Can I go dicken' around in my starship? Can I plop down a guild hall? Can I do anything other than talk to quest giver, collect bear paws, and participate in redundant instanced PvP (Warzones)? NO.
SWTOR is so tied down and linear it's not even funny.
Im a huge SWG fan, played 7 years of the 8 ( didnt play the last year none of my friends were on). But i do hope TOR will offer some of what SWG had. SWG features were the best ive seen in most mmo's. I know they arent the same game, but there are a lot of swg refugees and older swg fans that expect the best from TOR. I hope they can deliver, SWG is kind of a hard game to beat and hope its not all eye candy.
Conspiracy theories or not I don't buy the PR crap about not knowing when to come out, it can be just a coincidence, they are coming out with their linear, simplified heavy storydriven game few days after SWG will be shutdown.
Soe doesn't even want handing out the sourcecode so that does speak volumes about their customer relationship or maybe they've been paid not to do so, knowing EA everything is possible.
Personally for me SWG died long ago, when Soe screwed up and introduced the stupid NGE.
To me its simple comparing them:
episode 5 - 6: SWG
episode 1 - 3: Tor
I've yet - ~ 2 month before release ~ see something challenging, deep or complex in this game. Don't me wrong I've loved Kotor but I'm not seeing the same freedom in TOR. The thing with Bioware story is always the same:
you're the chosen one survived, chain power, gathering companions and completing a linear questline. Sure there are some dark/grey/bright options but thats about it.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Being an Elf, spiritually, I recall Master Tolkiens saying "Never ask an elf for advice for he will say both yes and no." and alas so is usually my view. I see ups and downs. (Usually people always remember only my downs, but that is more their misperception.)
Same with SWGs passing and SWTORs coming.
SWG passing means the death of probably the most daring world design we have ever seen in a MMO. And likely will see for years to come, and that rightfully makes us old SWG players sad. You could do so many things in SWG you can't in TOR or any MMO, it is a pity. But mostly it is a pity that SWG essentially failed to capitalize it's IP and it's great ideas. But what happened happened. I guess we have to accept it, even tho a part of our gamers hearts will always feel some pain over it. And I think that is ok. Pain reminds, makes us alert, pays respect to a great project that was SWG.
Still, it does not entirely close me to SWTOR. Yes, as a player who experienced the great features of SWG, I measure TOR with it. Like I do with EVERY MMO. When you have experienced something good I think it is only valid to want to good parts again. There is nothing wrong with that, and the mere, vague comment "TOR is another sort of game" feels like a brush off. Adding sandbox elements would not hinder TOR from being a story-driven theme park, but Bioware did not care for these elements, and no matter the fate of TOR, the day WILL come when Bioware will regret having neglected such sandbox elements totally.
SWTOR will have to prove that it can stand on it's own in the long run, only that will be the measure for this game. I guess we have to wait and see. But one thing is crystal clear to me: game developing companies NEVER learn from others. It always is like some mental reset and they forget all the lessons of the past. Alas.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
SWG (before Jedi) was a Star Wars game for the adult, e.g., player driven economy, gigantic worlds with player housing, player cities, player malls, superior crafting, in-depth surveying and harvesting, endless clothing options, deep space content, randomized item stats, incentives to use the social tools (cantinas / med centers) etc.
Most everything about SWG was self-sustaining. There was always something to do.
SWTOR, however, is a Star Wars game for the youth. It has story (not yours of course), which will ultimately come to an end. And what of end-game? Can I start a store? Can I plant a house? Can I go off and explore gigantic worlds? Can I go dicken' around in my starship? Can I plop down a guild hall? Can I do anything other than talk to quest giver, collect bear paws, and participate in redundant instanced PvP (Warzones)? NO.
SWTOR is so tied down and linear it's not even funny.
Really... you think the timing in all of this is a big coincidence? You can't tell me that the folks at EA Bioware didn't have a "soft" release date in mind for a while now. You can't tell me that they didn't lean on LucasArts, who in turn became even more heavy-handed in dealing with SOE in regard to getting SWG shut down when the license was up for renewal, thus giving us the Dec. 15 end-date.
Well, you can tell me those things... I just won't believe them.
That left just one last potential hiccup... even though they are different genres, the other big PC release that EA Bioware wanted to avoid was Diablo 3. When Blizzard blinked first and admitted on Friday that the game would have a 2012 release, the path was clear and within HOURS, we had a Dec. 20 release date announced for SW:TOR.
Expect Blizzard to try and do their best to have WoW patch 4.3 release as close to and perhaps slightly ahead of Dec. 20 (if not on Dec. 20 itself) in order to try and foul up what some see as the "WoW Killer"'s release. We've seen that with other patches, expansions, even other Blizzard games like Starcraft 2. They'll do whatever they can to keep the WoW money-printing machine cranking out unimpeded.
Wow, it's this forum is just amazing. When TOR's release date was announced people here were putting it all on how another game was not going to be released this year. New week, new conspiracy.
SWG was horrible at release. Some of you loved it but the masses hated it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The problem is that fans have to get over that "I'm a fanboi" mentality and really look at what we're getting here and how it is being done. Sure, I'm a fan of many titles but seriously I leave my fanboi mentality at home when I post on forums. If you look at what TOR is offering and what has been done before there is very little distinction at all since Everquest. I'm also a big Star Wars fan and I was not impressed at all. I cancelled my pre-order and got Mass Effect 3 instead.
SWG (before Jedi) was a Star Wars game for the adult, e.g., player driven economy, gigantic worlds with player housing, player cities, player malls, superior crafting, in-depth surveying and harvesting, endless clothing options, deep space content, randomized item stats, incentives to use the social tools (cantinas / med centers) etc.
Most everything about SWG was self-sustaining. There was always something to do.
SWTOR, however, is a Star Wars game for the youth. It has story (not yours of course), which will ultimately come to an end. And what of end-game? Can I start a store? Can I plant a house? Can I go off and explore gigantic worlds? Can I go dicken' around in my starship? Can I plop down a guild hall? Can I do anything other than talk to quest giver, collect bear paws, and participate in redundant instanced PvP (Warzones)? NO.
SWTOR is so tied down and linear it's not even funny.
fully agree
Fully agreed I think the game will even make World of Warcraft look like challenging, hell you can't even grind mobs for xp you have to do the linear and static story stuff. Funny thing though, Jedis and Sith are the chosen ones yet everyone will be the same at the end just with different side points *lol*
Rather build up an unique character, with a great house, working on a guild hall and do some dungeon crawls.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Comments
I am a little skeptical about GW2. I will give it a go, but let us see how they will deliver all those promises.
About all the criticism around SWTOR I think that just because a game isn't tailored towards some folks wishes and expectations, it doesn't make them smarter than the full crew behind it... I mean, I have all these visions and ideas and etc etc... Well you are very self confident at least... But the issue is that for every single smart whiner out there, there are thousands of buyers, and guess who rules the trend? Sandboxes haven't been much of a success as far as I know...
@Requiamer "in mmo we only have "stupid" games, that is The problem. Sure we have few sandbox over there too"
So sandbox = clever, themepark = stupid?! Well I stupidly LOL at that.
I always wished that I played SWG when it first came out. But with it being shut down and SWTOR coming out I'm kind of happy I never played it.
The SWG vets are rather pathetic and it is really annoying. You act that SWG was the only game that went down the crapper and pissed off its fanbase. Stop hating on SWTOR because you are mad at what SOE did to SWG. Its done and over with now move on!
I have always said that there are 3 things SWG vets need.
1. A hug
2. A Boohoo bear
3. a cup of stfu
BTW, "True Star Wars fans" didn't care a whit about SW:G. So the ending of SW:G is not a cause to make the end of 2011 bittersweet.
@Requiamar
well true that there arent any mmorpg out there that have done this but if your looking for a rp game have, you tried neverwinter nights?
sure its old but its still one of the best in the rp department out there
WoW SY FY and prolly even worse
You know, Ive been playing SWG since beta. I'll be there when the lights go out. Its a great mmorpg. But to say that it was a more adult/mature game than SWTOR? You must be smoking something. Do you know why SWG was gutted? If you saw the forums pre-CU, it was nonstop whining and childish tantrums. It was thousands of self centered, immature, "adults" pissing and moaning about their jedi, or smuggler, or /insert every unfinished profession in the game (read: every profession).
SWG in its current, gimpy state, has more features than TOR and GW2 combined. But that is a credit to the developers, not the players. We had our chance to eat at the big boy table, but we embarrassed our parents in front of their dinner guests. Now we are back in our high chairs with a sippy cup. And some people still dont get that their own actions got them there.
Ye NWN is the only exception; i played it a lot at its time. NWN also had the best stories/quests in the solo mode of all my rpg games.
I will say, SWG was the only game where, after playing for a few days, I neatly created a recursive macro to grind for me while I went to work all day. Just lay prone and go to town... never had any problems, never was kicked or reported or anything.
SWG was great.. but it was the community that made it great... everything else (apart from JTL and the economy) was lackluster. The NGE which was supposed to breathe life, succinctly killed it, as then the combat (which was never really working well) was broken.
The best parts about SWG were ...
1) It was Star Wars
2) The community (the community that loved star wars)
3) The setting (star wars setting)
4) The Economy (buying and selling star wars gear)
5) JTL (owning and flying star wars ships in a type of simulator)
6) Housing (which was great but most were ghost towns after you realized they were just glorified meeting places or shops at the best of times).
As much fun as I had there with the friends I met... the game wasn't what I enjoyed, and after playing SWTOR for a while, I am happy I preordered.
When I got that email informing me of the launch date ... well I think this best describes it,
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
So how would everyone feel if two years into SWTOR they changed the combat to turnbased and threw out the quests and declared SWTOR to be a sandbox game? Anyone think there might be some themepark fans coming over to mmorpg.com to complain on the forums?
That's the thing about human nature though. Someone's walking along and they slip on a bannana peel, and quite a few people are gonna laugh and think...moron needs to watch where he's walking. BUT, when they themselves slip on a peel...who put that there?! That's a safety hazard.
SWG vets remind us that gaming companies have a responsibility to deal honestly with the customer. Stringing customers along with promises you have no intention of keeping, lying, making fun of customers...these are all things SOE did and vets held them to the fire over it. It's a lesson to other mmo companies what not to do.
This is definitely nothing new to anyone here. Basic theme park/generic mmo since the WoW days. My take is you'll be bored within 4 months and you'll be looking for the next best thing very soon. Only the Bioware diehards will stay, well some of them...
I can tell you what my likeliest reaction would be: I'd be annoyed, try out the new game and if I didn't like the changes the company made with their own MMORPG, I'd leave.
I'd make some comments about it on forum, but within months I'd have moved on to other games and interests that appealed to me. Because in the end, the MMORPG wouldn't be my life, nor would it feel like my gf slept with someone else when a company changed a game I played, it would still be just a game, just one of many games and interests that I keep myself busy with.
However, from what I've seen over the years, a number of SWG vets are far different from that reaction, and to me it feels like it was a huge, major part of their life and their feelings and emotions towards SOE and the NGE change are on the level as if their partner had betrayed them and committed adultery.
Yawn. Or not. The fact that the majority of people who playtested seemed to like what they played, while only a handful who are so burnt out that they can only enjoy MMO gameplay that 's completely different from what they played before didn't, says enough I think. To me, it looks like some people lack the ability to grasp that tastes and gaming preferences differ and mileage can vary, and that if they don't like something, that doesn't mean that the whole world doesn't like that something or even the majority dislikes it
A case of common sense and logic to me, which sadly is often quite lacking on this site, looking at the daily forum debates passing by.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Considering that I was a tester for little over a month you're not telling me anything that I don't already know. Also there is no way to tell if the majority in beta liked it or not. That is clearly subjective and an assumption on your part.
Actually theres a very clear cut way to tell who liked it or not, a number of ways.
1) Forums, thats what they're there for.
2) Responses utilizing in-game surveying.
3) Metrics
.... all that together gives BioWare a very clear picture of who's playing, who's enjoying it, who isn't, and why they aren't.
I will not comment on anything other then that in regards to beta feedback.
It is impossible to please everyone. I felt the best part of SWG was when you would originally get XP as a crafter when someone used your item. That was awesome until people complained and jackholes would buy all the noobz stuff and destroy it. Sure I guess you could call it competition, but hey it was still crappy behavior. Never the less when they took out the ability to get ysage XP, that was when I knew the game was in trouble. When SOE could not put vehicles into the game while Planetside already had them, siting programming etc... I knew SWG was in trouble. Still I stuck with it and enjoyed the game til the CU and beastmasters made everyone else useless in combat lol.
So yes you cannot please everyone. However, there were plenty of things added to SWG after the fact and if the players demand it, I am sure we very well could see new planets where we can drop cities and guild halls and maybe even set up shops. Certainly space combat could be improved as well. No game that is going to be successful is going to be static.
Just My 2 Lunars
Kind of what Maskedweasel is saying, and kind of what I was saying as well. But hey, if you don't like it, good for you, there's always other games to play or look forward to. The argument that because you don't like it, everyone else will neither is kind of nonsensical however, especially since quite a lot of people who've also been testing as well already stated that they enjoyed their time. Tastes differ and gaming preferences, remember? Not everyone is burnt out by playing certain MMO gameplay and features for years.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
LoL, they have the money and the resourcers to make new content, updates and patchs fast enough to not let people get bored, dont worry it doesnt look like swtor will fail like you wish.
Im a huge SWG fan, played 7 years of the 8 ( didnt play the last year none of my friends were on). But i do hope TOR will offer some of what SWG had. SWG features were the best ive seen in most mmo's. I know they arent the same game, but there are a lot of swg refugees and older swg fans that expect the best from TOR. I hope they can deliver, SWG is kind of a hard game to beat and hope its not all eye candy.
Conspiracy theories or not I don't buy the PR crap about not knowing when to come out, it can be just a coincidence, they are coming out with their linear, simplified heavy storydriven game few days after SWG will be shutdown.
Soe doesn't even want handing out the sourcecode so that does speak volumes about their customer relationship or maybe they've been paid not to do so, knowing EA everything is possible.
Personally for me SWG died long ago, when Soe screwed up and introduced the stupid NGE.
To me its simple comparing them:
episode 5 - 6: SWG
episode 1 - 3: Tor
I've yet - ~ 2 month before release ~ see something challenging, deep or complex in this game. Don't me wrong I've loved Kotor but I'm not seeing the same freedom in TOR. The thing with Bioware story is always the same:
you're the chosen one survived, chain power, gathering companions and completing a linear questline. Sure there are some dark/grey/bright options but thats about it.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Being an Elf, spiritually, I recall Master Tolkiens saying "Never ask an elf for advice for he will say both yes and no." and alas so is usually my view. I see ups and downs. (Usually people always remember only my downs, but that is more their misperception.)
Same with SWGs passing and SWTORs coming.
SWG passing means the death of probably the most daring world design we have ever seen in a MMO. And likely will see for years to come, and that rightfully makes us old SWG players sad. You could do so many things in SWG you can't in TOR or any MMO, it is a pity. But mostly it is a pity that SWG essentially failed to capitalize it's IP and it's great ideas. But what happened happened. I guess we have to accept it, even tho a part of our gamers hearts will always feel some pain over it. And I think that is ok. Pain reminds, makes us alert, pays respect to a great project that was SWG.
Still, it does not entirely close me to SWTOR. Yes, as a player who experienced the great features of SWG, I measure TOR with it. Like I do with EVERY MMO. When you have experienced something good I think it is only valid to want to good parts again. There is nothing wrong with that, and the mere, vague comment "TOR is another sort of game" feels like a brush off. Adding sandbox elements would not hinder TOR from being a story-driven theme park, but Bioware did not care for these elements, and no matter the fate of TOR, the day WILL come when Bioware will regret having neglected such sandbox elements totally.
SWTOR will have to prove that it can stand on it's own in the long run, only that will be the measure for this game. I guess we have to wait and see. But one thing is crystal clear to me: game developing companies NEVER learn from others. It always is like some mental reset and they forget all the lessons of the past. Alas.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
fully agree
Wow, it's this forum is just amazing. When TOR's release date was announced people here were putting it all on how another game was not going to be released this year. New week, new conspiracy.
SWG was horrible at release. Some of you loved it but the masses hated it.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
The problem is that fans have to get over that "I'm a fanboi" mentality and really look at what we're getting here and how it is being done. Sure, I'm a fan of many titles but seriously I leave my fanboi mentality at home when I post on forums. If you look at what TOR is offering and what has been done before there is very little distinction at all since Everquest. I'm also a big Star Wars fan and I was not impressed at all. I cancelled my pre-order and got Mass Effect 3 instead.
Fully agreed I think the game will even make World of Warcraft look like challenging, hell you can't even grind mobs for xp you have to do the linear and static story stuff. Funny thing though, Jedis and Sith are the chosen ones yet everyone will be the same at the end just with different side points *lol*
Rather build up an unique character, with a great house, working on a guild hall and do some dungeon crawls.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."