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Korea May Ban D3 over Real Money Auction House trading

ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.1481, NJPosts: 6,690Member

Looks like it could be the begining of the end of the RMAH. Stay tuned.....

 

Source: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/korea-may-ban-d3-over-real-money-trading

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Comments

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.
  • thegypsykingthegypsyking El Dorado Hills, CAPosts: 8Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

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  • romanator0romanator0 Glendora, CAPosts: 2,382Member

    Originally posted by thegypsyking

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

    How so?

    When gambling you pay somebody money to get a chance to make more money.

    The the RMAH you pay Blizzard money to get a chance to make some money.

    In both you aren't guaranteed to make anything.

    Looks like they have the same basic principles to me.

    image

  • lennpelllennpell madawaska, MEPosts: 109Member

    This is good, because Blizzard knows koreans love these types of games and they'd lose so many sales it'd be ridic, we might just have our saving grace for the AH here guys.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member

    Originally posted by thegypsyking

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

     Oh really, then tell us what it is then because bidding on items on an AH is gambling.

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  • DeathTouchDeathTouch Bellevue, NEPosts: 508Member

    I'm just waiting for the government to scream, "WHERE ARE MY TAXES?"

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,742Member Uncommon

    Houses get put on the auction blocks too and unlike poker there is an actual virtual item here that you spent time getting. It is not based on chance. They will probably tax it.

    image

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member

    Not a big deal really. Blizzard could easily turn off the RL cash AH for korean version of the game.

    Game will still have a In game AH that uses in game gold so nothings really lost imo.

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck jonesboro, GAPosts: 600Member Uncommon

    I still dont understand why its such a big problem to put a feature in a game that you dont have to use. if you dont like it dont use it. so many people say they wont play the game because of this. Im not willing to miss out on a great game because of something i may or may not use

     

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

    I still dont understand why its such a big problem to put a feature in a game that you dont have to use. if you dont like it dont use it. so many people say they wont play the game because of this. Im not willing to miss out on a great game because of something i may or may not use

     

     Just because it is optional doesn't make it legal.

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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by kitarad
    Houses get put on the auction blocks too and unlike poker there is an actual virtual item here that you spent time getting. It is not based on chance. They will probably tax it.


    People keep bringing this up. Nobody is transferring ownership of anything. Players are not actually buying virtual items. In theory, the government might attempt to assess a sales tax for services, but these are private sales between individuals, over the internet, probably across regional lines. No sales taxes will be taken.

    However, in the United States, if you earn money, you may need to submit a personal income tax form, even if you are underage. If you earn more than $600 a year, and you have other income (from a job) where you would be paying income tax, you'll need to put that money earned on your income tax forms. That's where the government is going to collect money.

    ** edit **
    Also, the South Korean government banned another game type thing that wasn't a gambling machine. They banned it because people acted like it was a gambling thing. All that's needed is for the people who would be playing to treat the RMAH like a way to gamble or as if they were gambling, and the South Korean government will ban it.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Looks like it could be the begining of the end of the RMAH. Stay tuned.....

     

    Source: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/korea-may-ban-d3-over-real-money-trading

    Yeah , kudos for SK goverment :D   

  • kilunkilun Apopka, FLPosts: 709Member Common

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Originally posted by thegypsyking

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

     Oh really, then tell us what it is then because bidding on items on an AH is gambling.

     And bidding on eBay is gambling as well then?  So is any auction in general with that analogy.  You pay a fee to put up an auction to the host(this case the host is blizzard)  they take a cut of the sale price(in their case its a flat fee regardless of final price)  Your a seller, most sellers have a monetary value attached, if people ever ran a small business(be it a table at a flea market with a cost per table) to selling on Ebay they would understand basic businesses economics 101: You got to put up money to make money.

    Yes, I can without a doubt understand the thought process because frankly it is close to gambling in a sense that we want to win something and get caught up in auctions.  But gambling is blowing money with a chance to win more money, item, etc.  In this case the buyer puts up nothing if they do not win, so it does not equal gambling.

    www.ozumgames.com

  • sonoggisonoggi tdot, ONPosts: 1,119Member

    reason theyre talking about this is that too many people in SK are addicted to games. everyone will be spending their cash on D3's items.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by kilun

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Originally posted by thegypsyking

    Originally posted by RefMinor
    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.
    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.


     Oh really, then tell us what it is then because bidding on items on an AH is gambling.


     And bidding on eBay is gambling as well then?  So is any auction in general with that analogy.  You pay a fee to put up an auction to the host(this case the host is blizzard)  they take a cut of the sale price(in their case its a flat fee regardless of final price)  Your a seller, most sellers have a monetary value attached, if people ever ran a small business(be it a table at a flea market with a cost per table) to selling on Ebay they would understand basic businesses economics 101: You got to put up money to make money.
    Yes, I can without a doubt understand the thought process because frankly it is close to gambling in a sense that we want to win something and get caught up in auctions.  But gambling is blowing money with a chance to win more money, item, etc.  In this case the buyer puts up nothing if they do not win, so it does not equal gambling.



    If doesn't matter if it's technically gambling or not. What matters is how people behave with it. If people treat it as if it's gambling, it doesn't matter if it's not technically gambling. It will get banned.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    Interesting... but stupid.

    The thing is that if it is OK to sell virtual items in a RMT shop it should be OK for players to sell them as well.

    Either you ban both or none. That doesn't mean I like this but the law needs to be fair.

  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    Originally posted by lizardbones

     




    Originally posted by kitarad

    Houses get put on the auction blocks too and unlike poker there is an actual virtual item here that you spent time getting. It is not based on chance. They will probably tax it.








    People keep bringing this up. Nobody is transferring ownership of anything. Players are not actually buying virtual items. In theory, the government might attempt to assess a sales tax for services, but these are private sales between individuals, over the internet, probably across regional lines. No sales taxes will be taken.



    However, in the United States, if you earn money, you may need to submit a personal income tax form, even if you are underage. If you earn more than $600 a year, and you have other income (from a job) where you would be paying income tax, you'll need to put that money earned on your income tax forms. That's where the government is going to collect money.



    ** edit **

    Also, the South Korean government banned another game type thing that wasn't a gambling machine. They banned it because people acted like it was a gambling thing. All that's needed is for the people who would be playing to treat the RMAH like a way to gamble or as if they were gambling, and the South Korean government will ban it.

     

    When push comes to shove, it's the government instated law that determines what ownership of virtual goods for players, not an EULA. Many nations are in the process of writing new legislation pertaining to virtual ownership of goods and taxation there of. Governments could very well give ownership and property rigths to players, but the catch is that they will be subject to taxes. And with good reason, it's a quickly growing industry that has so far largely escaped taxation.

    That's the fire that Blizzard is playing with by legitimizing RMT in Diablo 3. When it was against the EULA to pariticpate in any form of RMT, the strong case could be made agaisnt ownership of virtual property by players. When the opposite occurs, and sale of virtual goods for real money between parties occurs but is avidly promoted by Blizzard, it implies a level of ownership on behalf of the seller -- you can't legally sell something you do not own.

    Time will tell how it unfolds, but I can't help but feel that Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot, not to mention the rest of the industry, for their RMAH money grab.

  • LexinLexin Ellenville, NYPosts: 702Member Uncommon

    I don't like the RMAH but I don't even in the slightest consider it gambling. Now if you want to call something gambling just look at pretty much any F2P game and in the cash shop you buy something with a chance of winning something of value in the game.

    image

  • stayontargetstayontarget Tacoma, WAPosts: 6,068Member Uncommon

    Bliz could always turn off that feature for the eastern market.

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by thegypsyking

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

    Technically the items that you loot has luck involved.  You may never acquire the item you are looking for by yourself. Player A is really lucky and Player B is unlucky.  Unlucky player needs to buy the item he wants as he may never get it on his own.  Add in bots that can endlessly farm items or potential hackers and it makes it a messy situation.

     

    I'm not saying I agree with it being gambling, but there are certain aspects that make it interesting to view that way.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member

    Originally posted by kilun

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Originally posted by thegypsyking

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

     Oh really, then tell us what it is then because bidding on items on an AH is gambling.

     And bidding on eBay is gambling as well then?  So is any auction in general with that analogy.  You pay a fee to put up an auction to the host(this case the host is blizzard)  they take a cut of the sale price(in their case its a flat fee regardless of final price)  Your a seller, most sellers have a monetary value attached, if people ever ran a small business(be it a table at a flea market with a cost per table) to selling on Ebay they would understand basic businesses economics 101: You got to put up money to make money.

    Yes, I can without a doubt understand the thought process because frankly it is close to gambling in a sense that we want to win something and get caught up in auctions.  But gambling is blowing money with a chance to win more money, item, etc.  In this case the buyer puts up nothing if they do not win, so it does not equal gambling.

     Lets say you put up an item on the RMAH and it costs you a $1 fee for the listing fee and $1.00 for the transaction fee for using the RMAH. The item sells for $8.00 on the RMAH, right then and there is a profit. From your own words.... But gambling is blowing money with a chance to win more money, item, etc. Its gambling....

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  • st4t1ckst4t1ck jonesboro, GAPosts: 600Member Uncommon

    Most video game auctions house's have the buy now feature. how can it be named gambling if i click a button pay the cash and obtain an item. 

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    When gambling you pay somebody money to get a chance to make more money.

    same with the stock exchange market. and that's not illegal...

    image

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by stayontarget

    Bliz could always turn off that feature for the eastern market.

    That would not be a smart idea. First of all would they admit that it is gambling by doing that.

    Secondary it will very likely inspire other nations to demand that they close it for them as well.

    I don't see it as gambling myself, but I think we really need a international law clarification on virtual items now. It is kinda fuzzy, the gaming companies say that they own all the items but they sell stuff to you for real money... If it is just renting them it should not be called item mall.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Robokapp

    same with the stock exchange market. and that's not illegal...

    Buying and selling property is not really considered gambling. Otherwise you could not buy stuff like gold or invest in a company either and that would kill the economy.

    gam·ble (gmbl)

    v. gam·bled, gam·bling, gam·bles

    v.intr.

    1.

    a. To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.

    b. To play a game of chance for stakes.

    2. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.

    3. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.

    v.tr.

    1. To put up as a stake in gambling; wager.

    2. To expose to hazard; risk: gambled their lives in a dangerous rescue mission.

    n.

    1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.

    2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

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