The "graphics dont matter" comment bull sh-t. Who are you to tell someone they can or can't enjoy a game based on something. If graphics didn't matter, people wouldn't be spending billions of dollars trying to make them betters. Graphics are extremely important and can break or make a game. Why do you think there are so many people making minecraft texture packs all the time. If graphics didnt matter, everyone would be fine with the default stuff.
The "graphics dont matter" comment bull sh-t. Who are you to tell someone they can or can't enjoy a game based on something. If graphics didn't matter, people wouldn't be spending billions of dollars trying to make them betters. Graphics are extremely important and can break or make a game. Why do you think there are so many people making minecraft texture packs all the time. If graphics didnt matter, everyone would be fine with the default stuff.
I agree, graphics are important. As is Art design.
However, given that I've played the heck out of both Morrowind and Oblvion, two games that were also made for consoles, I feel fairly confident in saying that the "graphics' of Skyrim will follow suit and will be equally good on PC.
The whole thing is a moot point in my opinion, the graphics of the pc version will be good just as they were on their two former games. This is basically worrying over nothing.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Until they say they are omitting the option to change such features in the PC version (like it's always been), I wouldn't assume it's going to fly as low as the TRC on an Xbox.
In my opinion, what they are doing is setting a lower set of expectations by showing it off on the bottom-end system. If they showed amazing shit on PC, who is going to get pissed off?... the console kids.
"why did they spend so much time on the PC version, gaaaah!!!"
This.
Valve is doing the same with the new Counter Strike.
Look at 0:57
Watching console kiddes try to shoot someone is so funny LOL, no amount of autoaim can fix those terrible controllers.
Sure it looks not bad for console and its prolly still a good game but come on its 2011 it should have a pc version showing awesome graphics, instead it show mediocre graphics on a inferior xbox, Its not only a consoleport(last demo showned on xbox) but also steamgame.
And all reviews and videos are xbox 360 and Tod Howard is liar by saying game is made for todays pc's hardware with newest techniques?
No quadcore no DX11 no 2011 pc, but its build for a 6year old xbox:(
Sure i can play offlinemode but only if i install and updated through steam or no play at all.
They became great company today becouse of pc gamers but money rules so they abandon pc for inferior consoles:(
PC is even more dead then i thought, soon in 2012 still have newly released games for DX9.0c and OS xp build games:(
To each their own, however you might want to step to the side and listen to what you are saying. You admit that you like the graphics but because they are not using Direct X11 you have lost interest in the game... Really if you like the way it looks why do you care if it is not using DX11.
You need to keep in mind that Bethesda Softworks started developing Skyrim shortly after the release of Oblivion back in 2006 and Direct X11 did not exist back then and DX11 was not released until they were three years into the development of Skyrim. For them to fully utilize it they would have to delay the game and revisit all the assets they created over that time and for what “tessellation”? If every game stopped development the moment something new came along we would have nothing but “Duke Nukem: Forever(s)”.
This has nothing to do with Console Vs. PC and everything to do with what technology was available at the time of development.
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
I think graphics are gonna be the least of your worries.
Game will probably be dumbed down as fuck to suit console players.
while they did have to lobotomise the game some to work on consoles (oblivion) the PC didnt suffer from the same disadvantages, i would hope that they do the same with Skyrim, because much as i like bethesda's games, i rarely have much interest in a console port, i think too many people are overlooking the fact that the difference between directx9.c and directx11 is not that great unless you have a really good gpu anyway, and if you do have a decent PC.. with good graphics, then even though the consoles use Directx9.c also, the PC version is inevitably better, as the level of detail a decent GPU is able to generate is far and away superior to anything the various consoles are able to do, even a mid range GPU these days is several generations ahead of the consoles, 6 years is a hell of a long time in terms of GPU's of which the PS3 is even more constrained simply because it lacks the power to cope with more 'modern' games - PS3 has 500 mb of ram, of which 250mb is assigned to the cell processors, though even the total ram, or working memory, is far less than even a mid range GPU, on its own.. in a way, Consoles are holding back gaming, just because their technology is so out of date, and underpowered.
The OP hits on a sad truth. While it might not necessarily apply to Skyrim, it does apply to the majority of the PC gaming genre. The genre is being held back by companies who develope games for 6 year old consoles. The only way we are going to start seeing a new revolution in PC gaming is when the next consoles are released.
I agree about consoles negative effect on PC gaming. MOSTLY due to interface though. Clunky console-induced PC interfaces are really frustrating in games. Where is this new video though for skyrim? It was released sometime this last week?
Games like this aren't made for elitists, they are made for everyone who ever wanted to have an enjoyable RPG experience. If graphics and pc speces are the only standard you are holding, you probably won't appreciate the game for all its worth anyways. A lot of people out there don;t have the money to have a fully tuned PC and, as was said earlier, they started development for the game almost 5 years ago. Either way, the graphics look pretty boss and the gameplay and content will be bitchin. I myself have a high-end PC which I plan on playing it on. Still, I played Oblivion on Xbox (and still do) even though the graphics are pretty dated. With technology where its at today, never expect any game to hold up to current GPU specs. Game development follows GPU development which follows CPU development which follows MB development.
Console ports are here to stay 90% of the games today are made for consoles. Thats where the money is. Most games are bought for the Consoles not the PC. Go to your local Best Buy or Game Stop and look at the Dwendling PC section, PC's will NEVER go away. To many uses. but as far as gaming goes, it has now taken the back seat. It's a hard pill to swallow, seeing as how the PC is Greater than any console could ever be. with a Console, Every user is on an even playing field. no longer do you have to check,"Is my system enough to run this new game?" Joe Shmo has a better rig so he has the upper hand. Damn, I have to upgrade my Graphics card to run this one.
All things of the Past with a Console.
I LOVE PC gaming, but I see the writing on the wall. At least us PC Gamers still have MMO's............ For Now,
yea and that SUCKS big time Console is PCs worse enemy thats why we dont gona see the real power of pc games.
Ill keep faithfull to my gaming on my PC, i dont have console and ill never get one if eventually games are only made for console and then ported to PC ill quit and only play my old PC games. But Skyrim seems nice and prolly still looks better on my PC then any console ever can show.
But if the game controlls and game itself are to dumbdown console port ill realy concider stopping with buying games.
Already bought only one game crysis 2 when DX11 patch was released but was rather dissapointment. Normally i buy 10 to 15 games a year in my local game shops but thats drastically reduce to few a year. Im not fan of steam and all the DRM games out there The Witcher 2 was luckly DRM free but game feels so CONSOLE ahhh:(
Future don't look very bright for PC im affraid:(
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
By the title I thought you were gunna complain about serious gameplay flaws or something...but the graphics? You must be blind, they look amazing. Sure, the character hair could look a little better to be honest, but theyre overall really good. For the first time I like the look of nord and reguard females.
Furthermore, why are people ragging on the graphics? Whats wrong with them? They look absolutely AMAZING even on the Xbox. Whats wrong with you people?
Are some of you put out because you cant literally reach inside the screen and touch a plant and yank it out into the real world or what? Im totally lost here. A game doesnt have to utilize every last tiny bit of your PC power to have good graphics. Graphics are about art. This looks miles ahead of Oblivion graphically.
I agree with this.
I mean, "really" what we are seeing in the demos isn't good enough? really?
Are we seriously forgetting that games used to look like this?
and this?
or even this:
which actually still looks pretty good.
win x 1,000,000,000 for linking a picture of 'Adventure'. that was my favorite game as a kid.
If you judge this game only because of graphics, your not worthy enough to play this epic game.
Good graphics or not, the gameplay will be beast just like the previous TES games.
You misunderstood me but thats ok your prolly console gamer who dont mind that pc gamers get a console port.
Console ports are for most of time symplified version ported to PC with inferior graphics(as i said graphics are good for console but PC should have had alot better graphics then these). And im fed up with consoleports.
Im also entiled to my opinion i specifically placed it in PC section not your beloved console section.
I played btw Elder Scroll sinds 98 when i bought Daggerfall, Morrowind(my best untill now) and Oblivion already way to easy and console but still good game becouse of mods.
Where did you read that this is a console port ?
Please link this so we know your not making something up.
FYi no one is forcing you to buy and play a single player game, why did you feel the need to even post this in the first place ? Are you hoping that you will get a mass exodus of players to halt there enthusiasm of this game because of this post?
Sky is falling !!! ES-5 has a 360 and PS3 version !!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
he means it was made for consoles first, then ported over to pc. Generally people that create for all 3 platforms start with a console platform then move that over to the pc. Bulletstorm, CoD, BF, Space Marines, ect are examples. Technically the games SUCK when they are ports. Play the game or don't. You can't deny the truth that the game isn't living up to the hype so far. Hell, I'd go as far as saying Dragon Age smells better than this, but then again that's opinion. I really don't care, occupy yourself with your "savior" skyrim, enjoy it, then when you realize that you had you fill you'll exodus again to another game. No game will EVER meet your needs, because your needs are custom tailored to you.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
If you judge this game only because of graphics, your not worthy enough to play this epic game.
Good graphics or not, the gameplay will be beast just like the previous TES games.
You misunderstood me but thats ok your prolly console gamer who dont mind that pc gamers get a console port.
Console ports are for most of time symplified version ported to PC with inferior graphics(as i said graphics are good for console but PC should have had alot better graphics then these). And im fed up with consoleports.
Im also entiled to my opinion i specifically placed it in PC section not your beloved console section.
I played btw Elder Scroll sinds 98 when i bought Daggerfall, Morrowind(my best untill now) and Oblivion already way to easy and console but still good game becouse of mods.
Where did you read that this is a console port ?
Please link this so we know your not making something up.
FYi no one is forcing you to buy and play a single player game, why did you feel the need to even post this in the first place ? Are you hoping that you will get a mass exodus of players to halt there enthusiasm of this game because of this post?
Sky is falling !!! ES-5 has a 360 and PS3 version !!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
As console player you would not understand this at all.
Still Dx9.0c and GUI symplified for controller also combat. All videos showed on internet are XBOX versions. Its clearly a console port. Pc only gets higher resolution and anti alising.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
The only real problem for me about console ports are the controls. Even the Ui isn't much of a problem. But the controls, or at least some of them are so bad with the mouse/keyboard it render them unplayable. I don't have a controler for pc thought, but if i need to make it good to play Skyrim, i'll buy one.
I know that this is not a console port and much more like morrowind than oblivion, the development of the engine and tools started on the pc, then seperate teams were used for each different version, this was the only way to make sure it looked and worked well both on consoles and pc.
And yes I have played all of the Elderscrolls games, my favourite is morrowind.
I sincerely hope it is not a console port. I am however very pleased it has 3rd person as an option. I am very bad with 1st person and I get terrible headaches in 1st person shooters. I played Oblivion but I hated the 1st person perspective and I found the graphics as far as enviroment was fine but the people were downright ugly. I know there were some mods to change that I must go get that one of these days and try to play Oblivion again and finish it. I never got very far although it was interesting and fun.
I sincerely hope it is not a console port. I am however very pleased it has 3rd person as an option. I am very bad with 1st person and I get terrible headaches in 1st person shooters. I played Oblivion but I hated the 1st person perspective and I found the graphics as far as enviroment was fine but the people were downright ugly. I know there were some mods to change that I must go get that one of these days and try to play Oblivion again and finish it. I never got very far although it was interesting and fun.
Speaking of mods, I just hope Skyrim has a better mod-support than Obvilion cause my god was Obvilion mod support attrocious!
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I sincerely hope it is not a console port. I am however very pleased it has 3rd person as an option. I am very bad with 1st person and I get terrible headaches in 1st person shooters. I played Oblivion but I hated the 1st person perspective and I found the graphics as far as enviroment was fine but the people were downright ugly. I know there were some mods to change that I must go get that one of these days and try to play Oblivion again and finish it. I never got very far although it was interesting and fun.
Speaking of mods, I just hope Skyrim has a better mod-support than Obvilion cause my god was Obvilion mod support attrocious!
Some how i think your joking right?
If there is one game that have one of biggest and longest mod communitys then its Elder Scrolls specially Oblivion and still every week almost new mods.
And there where some AWESOME mods for Oblivion like the total conversion to morrowind.
But don't worry Skyrim will be huge with MODS plenty on the way.
I like Elder Scroll series sinds Morrowind(My favorite btw)also becouse of mods not only game it self.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
I sincerely hope it is not a console port. I am however very pleased it has 3rd person as an option. I am very bad with 1st person and I get terrible headaches in 1st person shooters. I played Oblivion but I hated the 1st person perspective and I found the graphics as far as enviroment was fine but the people were downright ugly. I know there were some mods to change that I must go get that one of these days and try to play Oblivion again and finish it. I never got very far although it was interesting and fun.
Speaking of mods, I just hope Skyrim has a better mod-support than Obvilion cause my god was Obvilion mod support attrocious!
Some how i think your joking right?
If there is one game that have one of biggest and longest mod communitys then its Elder Scrolls specially Oblivion and still every week almost new mods.
And there where some AWESOME mods for Oblivion like the total conversion to morrowind.
But don't worry Skyrim will be huge with MODS plenty on the way.
I like Elder Scroll series sinds Morrowind(My favorite btw)also becouse of mods not only game it self.
I don't think he is talking about the quality of mods, but how it is installed into the computer itself. I'm not sure if it was my problem or what, but when I uninstall oblivion, all the DLC and mods was still installed into the computer, I had to manually uninstall them each myself. The quality of mods was amazing, but the integration of it was horrific.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Comments
The "graphics dont matter" comment bull sh-t. Who are you to tell someone they can or can't enjoy a game based on something. If graphics didn't matter, people wouldn't be spending billions of dollars trying to make them betters. Graphics are extremely important and can break or make a game. Why do you think there are so many people making minecraft texture packs all the time. If graphics didnt matter, everyone would be fine with the default stuff.
I agree, graphics are important. As is Art design.
However, given that I've played the heck out of both Morrowind and Oblvion, two games that were also made for consoles, I feel fairly confident in saying that the "graphics' of Skyrim will follow suit and will be equally good on PC.
The whole thing is a moot point in my opinion, the graphics of the pc version will be good just as they were on their two former games. This is basically worrying over nothing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This.
Valve is doing the same with the new Counter Strike.
Look at 0:57
Watching console kiddes try to shoot someone is so funny LOL, no amount of autoaim can fix those terrible controllers.
To each their own, however you might want to step to the side and listen to what you are saying. You admit that you like the graphics but because they are not using Direct X11 you have lost interest in the game... Really if you like the way it looks why do you care if it is not using DX11.
You need to keep in mind that Bethesda Softworks started developing Skyrim shortly after the release of Oblivion back in 2006 and Direct X11 did not exist back then and DX11 was not released until they were three years into the development of Skyrim. For them to fully utilize it they would have to delay the game and revisit all the assets they created over that time and for what “tessellation”? If every game stopped development the moment something new came along we would have nothing but “Duke Nukem: Forever(s)”.
This has nothing to do with Console Vs. PC and everything to do with what technology was available at the time of development.
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
I think graphics are gonna be the least of your worries.
Game will probably be dumbed down as fuck to suit console players.
O_o o_O
Unless I'm blind, I am seriously trying to remember something that is more impressive than the graphics on 'Skyrim' shown so far.
Maybe The Witcher2?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
while they did have to lobotomise the game some to work on consoles (oblivion) the PC didnt suffer from the same disadvantages, i would hope that they do the same with Skyrim, because much as i like bethesda's games, i rarely have much interest in a console port, i think too many people are overlooking the fact that the difference between directx9.c and directx11 is not that great unless you have a really good gpu anyway, and if you do have a decent PC.. with good graphics, then even though the consoles use Directx9.c also, the PC version is inevitably better, as the level of detail a decent GPU is able to generate is far and away superior to anything the various consoles are able to do, even a mid range GPU these days is several generations ahead of the consoles, 6 years is a hell of a long time in terms of GPU's of which the PS3 is even more constrained simply because it lacks the power to cope with more 'modern' games - PS3 has 500 mb of ram, of which 250mb is assigned to the cell processors, though even the total ram, or working memory, is far less than even a mid range GPU, on its own.. in a way, Consoles are holding back gaming, just because their technology is so out of date, and underpowered.
The OP hits on a sad truth. While it might not necessarily apply to Skyrim, it does apply to the majority of the PC gaming genre. The genre is being held back by companies who develope games for 6 year old consoles. The only way we are going to start seeing a new revolution in PC gaming is when the next consoles are released.
So hurry up Y-Box and PS4.
I agree about consoles negative effect on PC gaming. MOSTLY due to interface though. Clunky console-induced PC interfaces are really frustrating in games. Where is this new video though for skyrim? It was released sometime this last week?
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Games like this aren't made for elitists, they are made for everyone who ever wanted to have an enjoyable RPG experience. If graphics and pc speces are the only standard you are holding, you probably won't appreciate the game for all its worth anyways. A lot of people out there don;t have the money to have a fully tuned PC and, as was said earlier, they started development for the game almost 5 years ago. Either way, the graphics look pretty boss and the gameplay and content will be bitchin. I myself have a high-end PC which I plan on playing it on. Still, I played Oblivion on Xbox (and still do) even though the graphics are pretty dated. With technology where its at today, never expect any game to hold up to current GPU specs. Game development follows GPU development which follows CPU development which follows MB development.
I haven't seen this new skyrim video, I cant find it on youtube.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
yea and that SUCKS big time Console is PCs worse enemy thats why we dont gona see the real power of pc games.
Ill keep faithfull to my gaming on my PC, i dont have console and ill never get one if eventually games are only made for console and then ported to PC ill quit and only play my old PC games. But Skyrim seems nice and prolly still looks better on my PC then any console ever can show.
But if the game controlls and game itself are to dumbdown console port ill realy concider stopping with buying games.
Already bought only one game crysis 2 when DX11 patch was released but was rather dissapointment. Normally i buy 10 to 15 games a year in my local game shops but thats drastically reduce to few a year. Im not fan of steam and all the DRM games out there The Witcher 2 was luckly DRM free but game feels so CONSOLE ahhh:(
Future don't look very bright for PC im affraid:(
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
By the title I thought you were gunna complain about serious gameplay flaws or something...but the graphics? You must be blind, they look amazing. Sure, the character hair could look a little better to be honest, but theyre overall really good. For the first time I like the look of nord and reguard females.
win x 1,000,000,000 for linking a picture of 'Adventure'. that was my favorite game as a kid.
I want my chalice!!!
Where did you read that this is a console port ?
Please link this so we know your not making something up.
FYi no one is forcing you to buy and play a single player game, why did you feel the need to even post this in the first place ? Are you hoping that you will get a mass exodus of players to halt there enthusiasm of this game because of this post?
Sky is falling !!! ES-5 has a 360 and PS3 version !!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Lolipops !
he means it was made for consoles first, then ported over to pc. Generally people that create for all 3 platforms start with a console platform then move that over to the pc. Bulletstorm, CoD, BF, Space Marines, ect are examples. Technically the games SUCK when they are ports. Play the game or don't. You can't deny the truth that the game isn't living up to the hype so far. Hell, I'd go as far as saying Dragon Age smells better than this, but then again that's opinion. I really don't care, occupy yourself with your "savior" skyrim, enjoy it, then when you realize that you had you fill you'll exodus again to another game. No game will EVER meet your needs, because your needs are custom tailored to you.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
Meh. TES:Skyrim looks good but Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning looks AMAZING.
As console player you would not understand this at all.
Still Dx9.0c and GUI symplified for controller also combat. All videos showed on internet are XBOX versions. Its clearly a console port. Pc only gets higher resolution and anti alising.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
The only real problem for me about console ports are the controls. Even the Ui isn't much of a problem. But the controls, or at least some of them are so bad with the mouse/keyboard it render them unplayable. I don't have a controler for pc thought, but if i need to make it good to play Skyrim, i'll buy one.
I know that this is not a console port and much more like morrowind than oblivion, the development of the engine and tools started on the pc, then seperate teams were used for each different version, this was the only way to make sure it looked and worked well both on consoles and pc.
And yes I have played all of the Elderscrolls games, my favourite is morrowind.
I sincerely hope it is not a console port. I am however very pleased it has 3rd person as an option. I am very bad with 1st person and I get terrible headaches in 1st person shooters. I played Oblivion but I hated the 1st person perspective and I found the graphics as far as enviroment was fine but the people were downright ugly. I know there were some mods to change that I must go get that one of these days and try to play Oblivion again and finish it. I never got very far although it was interesting and fun.
Speaking of mods, I just hope Skyrim has a better mod-support than Obvilion cause my god was Obvilion mod support attrocious!
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Some how i think your joking right?
If there is one game that have one of biggest and longest mod communitys then its Elder Scrolls specially Oblivion and still every week almost new mods.
And there where some AWESOME mods for Oblivion like the total conversion to morrowind.
But don't worry Skyrim will be huge with MODS plenty on the way.
I like Elder Scroll series sinds Morrowind(My favorite btw)also becouse of mods not only game it self.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
I don't think he is talking about the quality of mods, but how it is installed into the computer itself. I'm not sure if it was my problem or what, but when I uninstall oblivion, all the DLC and mods was still installed into the computer, I had to manually uninstall them each myself. The quality of mods was amazing, but the integration of it was horrific.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.