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So anyone can be a Jedi?

YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?

And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?

I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.

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Comments

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,471Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Yamota

    How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?

    And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?

    I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.

    Yes, you don't understand.

    Hint:  Star Wars is a work of fiction.

    Hint:  SWTOR is a video game not a sim.

    Hint:  Gameplay > lore.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Yamota

    How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?

    And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?

    I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.

    Yes, you don't understand.

    Hint:  Star Wars is a work of fiction.

    Hint:  SWTOR is a video game not a sim.

    Hint:  Gameplay > lore.

    This is a work of fiction based on the SW IPso your first two points are moot.

    As for gameplay > lore. Yes if you are not a SW fan but if you are then I dont see how you dont find it ridicilous with Jedis being nothing more than your standard storm trooper.

  • Sigurd57Sigurd57 *, IAPosts: 347Member Uncommon

    Time lines is what's important I guess.   In the movies the Jedi were a lot fewer as they were what was left of the 'elite warriors' ..

    The Old Republic takes place somewhere 3500 years before the movies, when Jedi were in abundance.    Do I think it is stupid that the entire game will be Jedi & Sith?  Sure.  Expecically since 4 of the 8 classes are force based.   And of course those classes are designed to be the most appealing..

    It'll be Bioware's challenge to make classes that are non-force based more appealing to the masses..  So far, that doesn't seem to be going too well...

    Hey TSW Players http://www.unfair.co/ for Mission guides, Lore Locations and stuff....

  • NazgolNazgol Dickson, TNPosts: 864Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by waynejr2


    Originally posted by Yamota

    How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?

    And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?

    I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.

    Yes, you don't understand.

    Hint:  Star Wars is a work of fiction.

    Hint:  SWTOR is a video game not a sim.

    Hint:  Gameplay > lore.

    This is a work of fiction based on the SW IPso your first two points are moot.

    As for gameplay > lore. Yes if you are not a SW fan but if you are then I dont see how you dont find it ridicilous with Jedis being nothing more than your standard storm trooper.

    This thread makes my head hurt. They can't make Sith/Jedi's more powerful than the other classses since this is a game. Also Jedi were killed by classes other than Sith, heck Order 66  was basically a massacre of Jedi by the clone troopers. Not to mention Bounty Hunters.

    In Bioware we trust!

  • Biggus99Biggus99 Mesa, AZPosts: 916Member

    Originally posted by sigurd57

    It'll be Bioware's challenge to make classes that are non-force based more appealing to the masses..  So far, that doesn't seem to be going too well...

     

    Why do you say that?  Have you taken a look at the other classes?  There are some very interesting choices that don't require using the force.  I think BioWare has done an excellent job of making those other classes appealing.  

  • GibboniciGibbonici LeedsPosts: 472Member Common

    Originally posted by Yamota

    How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?

    And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?

    I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.

    Well there's the thing - none of the player characters are supposed to be "John Schmoes", all of them are gifted and elite, including the non-Force using classes.

     

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member
    1) Wiping out a bunch of mindless droids is hardly being elite. Jedi got owned by troopers and bounty hunters in the movies,not to mention tkms in the EU. Its not biowares fault that you have a shoddy memory of the actual lore.
    2) As if you ever had any intentions of playing this game.

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • godzilr1godzilr1 scottsdale, AZPosts: 550Member Uncommon

    not just anyone.....everyone.

  • TUX426TUX426 Madison, WIPosts: 1,907Member

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    1) Wiping out a bunch of mindless droids is hardly being elite. Jedi got owned by troopers and bounty hunters in the movies,not to mention tkms in the EU. Its not biowares fault that you have a shoddy memory of the actual lore.

    2) As if you ever had any intentions of playing this game.

    QFE!!!

    How many got their asses handed to them at the battle of geonosis?

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Yamota

     

    This is a work of fiction based on the SW IPso your first two points are moot.

    As for gameplay > lore. Yes if you are not a SW fan but if you are then I dont see how you dont find it ridicilous with Jedis being nothing more than your standard storm trooper.

    First the other classes are supposed to be specialists in their field. Your average trooper is not what players will be playing, think of the troopers as special forces.

    Second suspension of disbelief, you're character was picked to be a Jedi, you are being trained as such. Problem solved, and yes I'm a huge SW fan.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member

    Originally posted by TUX426

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    1) Wiping out a bunch of mindless droids is hardly being elite. Jedi got owned by troopers and bounty hunters in the movies,not to mention tkms in the EU. Its not biowares fault that you have a shoddy memory of the actual lore.

    2) As if you ever had any intentions of playing this game.

    QFE!!!

    How many got their asses handed to them at the battle of geonosis?

     

    Amazing how a Star Wars fan could forget that ;)

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • rygar218rygar218 altamonte springs, FLPosts: 332Member Uncommon

    To the OP your making coments about people being able to play so many jedi. In the current time line there is only 2 sith at any given time according to the main Star Wars Story. A master and an apprentice. 

    As others have commented before. Jedi's are people too they aren't invincible. Seek Order 66.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    At this point in time, the only thing I can say is; Troll thread is full of food.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • DarkholmeDarkholme Wolfeboro, NHPosts: 1,201Member Uncommon

    You clearly need to go back and read the lore of the game for your answers...

    -------------------------
    "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"

  • CheookCheook HamburgPosts: 16Member

    The SW books of the old republic timeline ("Deceived" by Paul S. Kemp and "Fatal Alliance" by Sean Williams) explain the situation very well... at this time you have thousands of sith and jedi warriors, most of them quite average people.

    Several hundred years later (as described in the "Revan" triology by Drew Karpyshyn), the sith killed each other to focus all the power/force into two people, and after that they decimated the jedi massively and only the strongest survived.

    So yes, it is correct that a good bounty hunter or smuggler can easily beat a weak force wielder.

  • EvilChemistEvilChemist Toronto, ONPosts: 105Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?

    And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?

    I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.

    Jedi were not taught as ruthless trained killers like the sith, they were taught mostly all the lightside aspects of the force, combat being a small part of that training. The sith on the other hand are a different story. For the most part jedi would be equal to any other trained killer, the force just lets them catch up to the level of badass assassins like Boba Fett and there are various examples throughout the SW universe where non exceptional jedi get eaten alive by forceless foes.

    I think inherently the sith would be better combatants by far then most jedi. In any case I understand your point but consider what your really upset about and review your facts.

    1. The average jedi is not necessarily more dangerous then trained badass killers.

    2. The number of jedi running around actually makes sense in this champaign.

    3. Most of these non jedi classes ARE trained badass killers.

    4. You are most definitely limited to the setting and skill system bioware has created and even if it was based on KOTOR's skill system, which it isnt, other non jedi classes would still be just as dangerous.

    Your issue is most likely that you cannot be like starkiller from the force unleashed. I think it's a valid concern that having that level of power is impossible in TOR and maybe bioware should have made the other classes come up to that level isntead of bringing force users down to the level the game has made them but THAT is a totally different argument.

    "LOL"

  • BigGertyBigGerty Nashua, NHPosts: 27Member

    I call this the Vader effect.  People think that because Vader was so badass, all Jedi and Sith must be badass....but this isn't the case.  Jedi were originally scholars with an above-average aptitude for combat.  Some, like Vader (or Anakin), would specialize in combat and become the best of the best.  But put an average Jedi or Sith against a trained combat team of troopers, bounty hunters, or assassine droids...they would most likely fail.

    Also, Jedi weren't always trained from childhood.  In the SW lore they would train anyone they could find that showed some semblance of ability with the force.  This only changed after the war with the Sith (which is the time period of the game), since it was found children were easier to manipulate and keep on the correct path, hence, stopping another rise of the Sith (or trying to at least).

    Either way...I think Bioware has done as good of job as can be expected, keeping close to the SW lore, while making a playable (and hopefully fun) MMO.  Plus, looking at a galaxy of trillions of people and species containing, what...two-three million Jedi and Sith...its not too hard to believe.

     

    (Spent childhood reading every SW book published...I know...sad :))

     

     

  • KalferKalfer HappylandPosts: 779Member

    In Red Letter Media's excellent review of the new star wars films; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBhi6qqFLA

     

    He goes to excellently explain that jedi loses a lot of their cool because they are being fan serviced way to much. In the original movies, you saw a lightsaber hear and there. in the new movies, they are basically parading them around, using them to scrap jawa butter on sand people bread. 

     

     

     

    It is why I firmly believe that Ralph Koasters vision of a Star Wars MMO was hundred times cooler than this, because it had more layers, were this is more pure fan service. It will be an easy sell for a 13 year old, but I personally think that they are just hurting their IP. They don't know when to stop, when to cut back. 

     

    Gamers often don't know what they are asking. they are not always supposed to get their fan service, they need to get what they need. 

  • DvalonDvalon IrvinePosts: 314Member Uncommon

    I'm a huge fan of the SW lore, so I can easily point out that just being a jedi means nothing, have you been a jedi long ? 1 day, first day on the job, wet behind the ears noob face or are you a jedi with years of battle experiance.

     

    And thats the key, differing skill levels, not all jedi OR sith are born IMBA they take years and years hell a life time of training to gain their fully elite status, all those jedi killed by the troopers were not as well versed in the ways of the force, those that were still are not gods, outnumbered 100 to 1 by troopers their sabers can only stop so many laser shots befre they take a hit.

     

    It's this myth that jedi or sith are gods that people keep tripping over, hell Quigon even tells anny that their not gods and they can die.

     

  • EvilChemistEvilChemist Toronto, ONPosts: 105Member

    My bad, I just relized I made a long post trying to be logical and ended up 2 timing myself.

    "LOL"

  • RavingRabbidRavingRabbid Virginia beach, VAPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    Some previous posters stated  things already. The Jedi and Sith orders had pretty much restored themelves during this timeline. Not every jedi and Sith are bad-asses. Some have average use of the force and others are powerful and stand out AKA Darth Malgus and Satele Shan. If you also read the lore some jedi or sith were better at some things than others or had a specialized gift. Example: Anakin Skywalker was one of the best lighsaber duelists the order for his time, and Bastila Shan great grandmother of Satele shan was an expert in battle meditation. With billions upon billions of beings in the galaxy ther bound to be alot of gifted indiviuals in the force.

    ***Satele Shan asks for 5000 credit child Support from the Raving Rabbid! DDDAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!***

    All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
    Playing: SWTOR, ESO, WOT, and Marvel Heroes

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Colorado Springs, COPosts: 4,183Member

    let's also not forget that during the Old Republic era, the general populace are used to dealing with force users. They have cortosis weapons and armor, and creative ways of taking down all but the most powerful Jedi and Sith.

    The "Trilogy Mindset" needs to be put aside when dealing with the SW EU.

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kalfer

    In Red Letter Media's excellent review of the new star wars films; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBhi6qqFLA

     

    He goes to excellently explain that jedi loses a lot of their cool because they are being fan serviced way to much. In the original movies, you saw a lightsaber hear and there. in the new movies, they are basically parading them around, using them to scrap jawa butter on sand people bread. 

     

     

     

    It is why I firmly believe that Ralph Koasters vision of a Star Wars MMO was hundred times cooler than this, because it had more layers, were this is more pure fan service. It will be an easy sell for a 13 year old, but I personally think that they are just hurting their IP. They don't know when to stop, when to cut back. 

     

    Gamers often don't know what they are asking. they are not always supposed to get their fan service, they need to get what they need. 

    Uhgg... I think that's some straight up hogwash, imagined by someone who can only see their own vision of Star Wars which they imagined in their head, not what was actually on screen.

    Why did the 3 newer flms have more lightsabers? Because it took place at a time before they were all but killed off. Why does KOTOR have so many? Again it was during a time before they were all killed off.

    I hated the prequels and remasters, but what you just said is pure hogwash.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,471Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Yamota

    How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?

    And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?

    I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.

    Yes, you don't understand.

    Hint:  Star Wars is a work of fiction.

    Hint:  SWTOR is a video game not a sim.

    Hint:  Gameplay > lore.

    This is a work of fiction based on the SW IPso your first two points are moot.

    As for gameplay > lore. Yes if you are not a SW fan but if you are then I dont see how you dont find it ridicilous with Jedis being nothing more than your standard storm trooper.

    The points are not moot.  It's a video game.  They didn't make it your way so don't act all hurt over it.  The fact that you can't understand it is TMI.

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon

    This has been addressed to death.

    In Swtor you play an elite level character. A character worthy of novels written around their journeys and accomplishments. That being said, it is a journey in development. Luke had no chance against Vader early in his life and even during their final confrontation he was still nowhere near Vader's power but with balance of personal rage and conflicts within Vader he managed to become victorious (although nearly falling to the dark side doing so).

    During this exact time it could be argued that Boba Fett could take out Luke if a direct confrontation would have occured (other than real bad luck for Fett at that time). The most elite bounty hunters were solid challenges to the most worthy of heroes during that time too. Han Solo was very skilled but still relied upon dirty tricks, technology, friends and a hell of a lot of luck to get through most situations.

    In the newer movies Jango Fett easily dispatched normal jedi and was a near even match for young jedi-master in Obi-Wan Kenobi and was only bettered by vastly more experienced masters and even then was thrown into a situation where he had no advantage.

    In Swtor you are the best of the elite troopers, the best bounty hunter in the region (at least within your story line), or whatever up and coming master of your profession you choose. Just about the worst frame of mind you can take when walking into this game is one framed entirely from the movies. TOR is expanded universe material balanced as best as possible against canon material whilst still tweated heavily to work as an mmo.

    If anyone has played the Star Wars roleplaying games (West End Games through Wotc) you would understand this perfectly. Any npc is a serious threat to you if at a higher skill level. TOR also is a time where force users are everywhere. Jedi, Sith and other force species/cultures are not entirely rare. What is rare are truly skilled warriors and it is these warriors us players are about to play.

    You stay sassy!

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