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Guild Wars 2: The Cries of the Players

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,622MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Most MMO players have spent years looking for the 'right' MMO in which to spend their time. Along the way, the myriad problems with attaining that ideal have been voiced by the gaming community. In today's Guild Wars 2 column, MMORPG.com's David North discusses how Arena.Net is breaking the MMO mold on many fronts, most notably the one where developers actually look at player concerns and listen to the voices of their fan base. Keep reading!

Besides actually raising the level cap, Arena Net also changed the way you level up. In other MMOs, players would either have to grind on creatures or do a ton of meaningless quests. No one in their right mind enjoys leveling using either of these tactics. Time and time again I hear people complain about this, and so has ArenaNet. To remedy this, they made it harder to level up, but it doesn’t take longer. Instead they kept the leveling curve for each level the same. So no more playing for two days and still not leveling up, we’ll have constant character progression.

Read more of David North's Guild Wars 2: The Cries of the Players.


Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • naesanaesa SundsvallPosts: 3Member

    You are really selling this game. One has to wonders if you're part of Arena.net's marketing division, but i guess you're not. I hope you're right looking forward to this one.

  • Master_M2KMaster_M2K LondonPosts: 244Member

    Yeah, they certainly have heard the majority of my cries. Now I can finally level up with my friends, without impeding on each others progress. I really hate how in other MMOs if I'm a couple of levels ahead or behind my friend, then one of us would have to wait for the other to catch up, if we want to continue playing together.

     

    I thought MMOs were meant to be a multiplayer experience and it seems like out of all the MMOs I know, only Guild Wars 2 is offering that with it's Dynamic Events. Now I can always play with my friends, or anyone for that matter; without the worry of kill stealing, ninja looting, ninja mining and I'll always be rewarded (no more grey mobs that offer no xp).

    Also another thing to note is the tier-less, skill-based PvP system; whereby my skill will beat your skill and not your 20% dmg mitigation will beat my 5% dmg mitigation. (The 40% dmg mitigation is Rift was ridiculous, but at least they patched it).

     

    All for no monthly fee.

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  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,007Member Uncommon

    "With the original only having a level cap of 20, it was easy to get to the max level. "

    I don't get what he means by that, the number of levels and the time it takes to level up isn't the same thing at all.

    DDO takes longer time to max out then Wow and DDO just have 20 levels. Sure, maxing out a character was really fast in GW. particularly since Factions released but that really have nothing at all to do with how many levels the game have.

    I am not at all sure why ANET made it 80 levels but it have no actual impact on gameplay. 

  • fonyfony hempstead, NYPosts: 755Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    "With the original only having a level cap of 20, it was easy to get to the max level. "

    I don't get what he means by that, the number of levels and the time it takes to level up isn't the same thing at all.

    DDO takes longer time to max out then Wow and DDO just have 20 levels. Sure, maxing out a character was really fast in GW. particularly since Factions released but that really have nothing at all to do with how many levels the game have.

    I am not at all sure why ANET made it 80 levels but it have no actual impact on gameplay. 

    it's true for guild wars and has always been. you max out in GW in a very short time. it never, ever took any real length of time compared to any other game. 

     

  • WhySoShortWhySoShort KunmingPosts: 315Member

    Thank God they're leaving dual classing behind. That was such a bad idea on so many levels. Talk about some awful class mismatches. 







     




     

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  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member

    someone is really excited about this game, aren't we? :)

  • Master_M2KMaster_M2K LondonPosts: 244Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    ...

    I am not at all sure why ANET made it 80 levels but it have no actual impact on gameplay. 


     

    I think they added more levels purely to stretch out the feeling of character progression. Seeing how you'll get your first Elite skill by around lvl 30 and and experience your first Dungeon around the same time, with progressively harder dungeons taking place every 10 levels, beyond that.

    Also MMO players just like numbers in general. It's also why characters will damage in the thousands and have health pools in the 10's of thousands.

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  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,007Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fony

    Originally posted by Loke666

    "With the original only having a level cap of 20, it was easy to get to the max level. "

    I don't get what he means by that, the number of levels and the time it takes to level up isn't the same thing at all.

    DDO takes longer time to max out then Wow and DDO just have 20 levels. Sure, maxing out a character was really fast in GW. particularly since Factions released but that really have nothing at all to do with how many levels the game have.

    I am not at all sure why ANET made it 80 levels but it have no actual impact on gameplay. 

    it's true for guild wars and has always been. you max out in GW in a very short time. it never, ever took any real length of time compared to any other game. 

    Yeah, but before Factions it took 5 times as long to max out a character. Try just playing the original campaign with a character and then make a Faction one and you'll see what I mean.

    It was still very short compared with most games at the time though.

  • kastakasta Mineola, TXPosts: 512Member

    Well, they didn't listen to me.  I didn't like the first one and don't think I will like this one but I will give it a fair shot.

  • palulalulapalulalula vukovarPosts: 655Member

    I really tried hard with GW, but how for heaven i missed that  ''awesomeness''. It was and it is average good game but nothing more and nothing less

  • DiovidiusDiovidius GoudaPosts: 1,025Member

    Originally posted by kasta

    Well, they didn't listen to me.  I didn't like the first one and don't think I will like this one but I will give it a fair shot.

    Well of course there is a difference between listening to people and doing what those people say. The former is what Anet is doing and thank god, they are not doing the later. Besides, even if they tried to do the later they would run into problems with conflicting opinions.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    Originally posted by WhySoShort

    Thank God they're leaving dual classing behind. That was such a bad idea on so many levels. Talk about some awful class mismatches. 

     

    One of the better features in GW1 I think. But I understand how it is a balancing nightmare.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • MalevianMalevian Lincoln, NEPosts: 48Member

    We can't honestly answer this question until we, the players, have a chance to actually see it first hand.  I've seen too many companies in the past promise to deliver and not follow through.  So until ArenaNet lets us in, I will withhold further judgement.

  • PuremallacePuremallace Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,856Member

    Originally posted by Malevian

    We can't honestly answer this question until we, the players, have a chance to actually see it first hand.  I've seen too many companies in the past promise to deliver and not follow through.  So until ArenaNet lets us in, I will withhold further judgement.




     

    Basically this. GW2 is still roughly 8 months from release if not more.

  • nomssnomss albany, NYPosts: 1,468Member

    Yes, from story to VO to interesting combat to social life to no trinity to much more they have listened to me.

  • fansedefansede Raleigh, NCPosts: 960Member

    Originally posted by Puremallace



    Originally posted by Malevian



    We can't honestly answer this question until we, the players, have a chance to actually see it first hand.  I've seen too many companies in the past promise to deliver and not follow through.  So until ArenaNet lets us in, I will withhold further judgement.










     

    Basically this. GW2 is still roughly 8 months from release if not more.

    Ouch. GW 2 announced in 2007, now I gotta wait til 2012? Wah Wah Wah!

  • MaquiameMaquiame Posts: 800Member Uncommon

    As long as I can make an Elonian human from day one without having to wait for the later expansions, im game.  I  have to give Anet some real props for Elona, they really did their research on African cultures in Nightfall and they didn't just take the cheap Egyptian/Islamic route that some games do. Even the nobles clothing and hairstyles from some areas is authentic sub saharan. Bravo A-Net, Bravo. Please Please keep all the character options so I can make an Elonian human from day one without having to wait for the Elona expansion. Otherwise I may not get this game day one. You guys put in toons that look like me, and I recently went back to buy GW1 for this reason (didnt have a comp the first time it came out).  I don't know if they read these boards, but this made such an impact on me that now GW2 is my most awaited mmo instead of SWTOR and TSW. (though I gotta say that TERA does have some reeally nice AA builds in the character creator)

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    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • shantidevashantideva bongholmPosts: 186Member

    Badly camouflaged ad...

     

    "Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day!"

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    "With the original only having a level cap of 20, it was easy to get to the max level. "

    I don't get what he means by that, the number of levels and the time it takes to level up isn't the same thing at all.

    DDO takes longer time to max out then Wow and DDO just have 20 levels. Sure, maxing out a character was really fast in GW. particularly since Factions released but that really have nothing at all to do with how many levels the game have.

    I am not at all sure why ANET made it 80 levels but it have no actual impact on gameplay. 


     

    A cap of 80 was probably thought to be more palatable than 20, and would require much less defending and explaining.  ANet is already making a lot of big changes with the way GW2 plays compared to other MMOs.  This kind of cap is what most players are familiar with and is one less thing that naysayers will be able to focus their complaints upon.

    I consider it largely a marketing decision, albeit one that has been well-implemented.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,660Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by shantideva

    Badly camouflaged ad...

     

    Of course. Nobody likes anything. If they say they do, theyre just trying to sell something. No possible way anyone could be excited about the highest hyped game for about a year now, as well as the most widely discussed game alongside TOR which it is constantly being compared to.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon







    Originally posted by Loke666












    Originally posted by fony
















    Originally posted by Loke666









    "With the original only having a level cap of 20, it was easy to get to the max level. "





    I don't get what he means by that, the number of levels and the time it takes to level up isn't the same thing at all.





    DDO takes longer time to max out then Wow and DDO just have 20 levels. Sure, maxing out a character was really fast in GW. particularly since Factions released but that really have nothing at all to do with how many levels the game have.





    I am not at all sure why ANET made it 80 levels but it have no actual impact on gameplay. 





    it's true for guild wars and has always been. you max out in GW in a very short time. it never, ever took any real length of time compared to any other game. 





    Yeah, but before Factions it took 5 times as long to max out a character. Try just playing the original campaign with a character and then make a Faction one and you'll see what I mean.





    It was still very short compared with most games at the time though.














     




    No. The only campaign that took you a long time to level was Prophecies, the first and core campaign. In Factions, you were almost, if not, level 20 before you even left the novice island and moved to the mainland, and in Nightfall you were level 20 before you even got to the third town. Might've been a while since you played, but your info isn't quite right.




    Prophecies took too long to get you to 20, when you had all the points you could to dedicate to your attributes, and your health cap. It took you nearly all of the game and left you pretty much crippled for all the content before it. The other two campaigns, max level happened too ~fast~, making you feel like you essentially stopped growing almost as soon as you started.




    GW2, your skills come from using your weapon not your level, your level simply decides things like health and probably armor/weapon prerequisites, too (don't know 100% yet). It's a compromise, and a higher cap than 20 was one of the top requests for the first game. So even if it doesn't change anything persay, it makes a lot of people happier and more interested in the game.









    edit - neeeevermind, I just saw I misread. I thought you said in Factions, but you said prior to it. *cap tip*



    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member

    The thing that i like in the design is that you can clearly see that they first listed the negative aspects in mmorpg, then made a brainstorming to try to find some enhancement, this is what i like in their design. I don't know how it will turn out, but i definitely like this attitude and will always support it even for game i might not share the same taste.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Well I'm ~trying~ to post an edit but evidently the new forums here are having issues doing so *stabs at CAPTCHA* as if that ever actually worked?

    Anyway, edit to above post, I read Loke's response wrong, thought you said IN factions, not PRIOR. You're right, prior to factions it took a while to get to 20, but with very few levels to cap you end up taking fairly huge leaps in progression with every level. Part of the upside to a higher level cap is there's a more gradual curve in the development of your character. I preferred leveling outside of Prophecies, and prior to GWEN just made Factions/NF characters and then did Prophecies with them instead. But at the same time I didn't like the super fast leveling of those campaigns. GW2's system sounds like it will be in the middle, and while it'll take longer to get there since the cap is higher, there's still a sense of 'growth' for much longer as well.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • i_evil_ii_evil_i Anytown, ALPosts: 13Member

    Dual classing a bad idea??? Speak for yourself sir!

    Dual classes were one of the things that kept me loving this game. I used to stay up nights trying to come up with a really powerful build 'on paper'  that would own ALL, and test it out  in the random arenas....and usually get my a** kicked. heh heh. But it was fun.

    I also happened to like the lvl 20 cap limit. In the original GW the real challenge for me was Elite Skill capping for my characters.  These Elite Skills then were very useful in finding and being accepted in groups for dungeon areas.



     

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member

    Originally posted by kaiser3282

    Originally posted by shantideva

    Badly camouflaged ad...

    Of course. Nobody likes anything. If they say they do, theyre just trying to sell something. No possible way anyone could be excited about the highest hyped game for about a year now, as well as the most widely discussed game alongside TOR which it is constantly being compared to.

    He has a point though. Would have made a typical blog entry or forum post.

    As an article, or column, that's quite a wash.

     

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