Not sure how this helps "immersion" in the long run. But yes, for those looking for superficial immersion, it does help. Themeparks are the antithesis of true immersion so the issue lies with the subgenre, really. Especially when this game is the epitome of a themepark.
Come on... isn't this the same old themepark vs sandbox argument that we've seen and read 10,000 times now?
Really, when will sandbox fans start to reflect and just move on, to MMO's that actually can captivate them and capture their interest? Why even spend time following a game of which they know that it has a gameplay design that abhors them, maybe possibly even make them physically feel sick and on the verge of vomiting? Really, it's a great mystery to me, hardcore sandbox fans or themepark haters actually following themepark MMO's most of their time instead of games they might actually like
Part of the problem, I think, is that there are no real sandbox mmos coming out. Or at least none that are being developed by a big developer.
Not sure how this helps "immersion" in the long run. But yes, for those looking for superficial immersion, it does help. Themeparks are the antithesis of true immersion so the issue lies with the subgenre, really. Especially when this game is the epitome of a themepark.
Come on... isn't this the same old themepark vs sandbox argument that we've seen and read 10,000 times now?
Really, when will sandbox fans start to reflect and just move on, to MMO's that actually can captivate them and capture their interest? Why even spend time following a game of which they know that it has a gameplay design that abhors them, maybe possibly even make them physically feel sick and on the verge of vomiting? Really, it's a great mystery to me, hardcore sandbox fans or themepark haters actually following themepark MMO's most of their time instead of games they might actually like
Because they don't actually like any games is the problem -all of their sandbox games are total jokes run by scam companies.
Even EvE, the last-great-Sandbox is now just a front for the development funds to make a PS3 shooter and World of Darkness not to mention rip off their loyal players in a cash shop. Heck EvE has been "Buy to Win" since PLEX was introduced.
It's no wonder they are angry.
And if THEY can't have nice things, new shiny toys, then why should anyone else be allowed to have fun and look forward to something exciting right?
@DJJazzy: I disagree: Arche Age, World of Darkness and Undead Labs' zombie MMO all look like to be sandbox MMO's or sandbox hybrid MMO's.
Besides, an MMORPG doesn't have to be a sandbox MMORPG to not be a traditional themepark MMORPG. I'd say that GW2, TSW, Firefall and Planetside 2 all are examples of MMORPG's that won't be traditional WoW-styled themepark MMORPG's but something else than that.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You see, one of the main reasons I got so bored with WoW was that it turned me into an MMO-questing machine. You worked through your list of (daily) quests and signed on for random dungeon or battleground instances. It wasn't a world anymore, it was a lobby, filled with chores.
*snip*
If you don't want to turn into a questing machine, don't want to do daily quests, don't want to do dungeons that only leaves PvP after you hit cap. Getting to cap should be a decent story, after you hit level 50 however all bets are off. Endgame looks like it will be very much like WoW, it's the journey to endgame that should be significantly better. So enjoy the journey!
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
{mod edit} Admittedly, I should have said Themeparks are ultimately the antithesis of true immersion.
{mod edit}
I can definitely see this game being immersive for (as I stated) superficial everyday Joes. perhaps my perspective is the outdated one, but I like my games/books/movies to be meaningful. Not something I can simply switch on and off. I understand that that takes commitment and effort, which is why it is on its way out, and the new way is in.
There is nothing "immersive" to me about SWTOR. There is a sorry illusion of immersion. Oh, and an illusion that will probably shatter at 50. An illusion that won't be restored until the next expansion/content patch/DLC.
I guess that this illusion appears to the masses. It is shallow enough so that they don't get drawn in completely, and yet gives the sense of depth so at the end of the day, the feeling of fulfilment is there.
{mod edit}
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I would appreciate if you ceased to put words in my mouth. All you keep doing is projecting your beliefs (regarding themeparks and sandboxes and lunchboxes) onto things that were never said. Admittedly, I should have said Themeparks are ultimately the antithesis of true immersion.
Regardless, I have noticed that you seem to have some massive chips on your shoulder and everytime there is an opportunity for you to drag those skeletons out, you do so. I suggest you stop because assumtion and presumption do not make for good contentions in any form of debate.
I can definitely see this game being immersive for (as I stated) superficial everyday Joes. perhaps my perspective is the outdated one, but I like my games/books/movies to be meaningful. Not something I can simply switch on and off. I understand that that takes commitment and effort, which is why it is on its way out, and the new way is in.
There is nothing "immersive" to me about SWTOR. There is a sorry illusion of immersion. Oh, and an illusion that will probably shatter at 50. An illusion that won't be restored until the next expansion/content patch/DLC.
I guess that this illusion appears to the masses. It is shallow enough so that they don't get drawn in completely, and yet gives the sense of depth so at the end of the day, the feeling of fulfilment is there.
PS. Incidentally, you would do well to take your own advice.
"Why even spend time following a game of which they know that it has a gameplay design that abhors them, maybe possibly even make them physically feel sick and on the verge of vomiting?"
"Come on... isn't this the same old themepark vs sandbox argument that we've seen and read 10,000 times now?"
Just as you ask me to not follow this game (as I have commited the crime of being critical of it), you could elect to not acknowledge my posts if you feel that their content has been previously addressed. I am mature enough to be able to follow something even if it isn't to my tastes but I understand if this is an alien concept to some others out there.
You choose to be immersed or not. If you can ignore the fact that you are playing on a computer and still claim to be immersed then anything in game can be ignore as well.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I would appreciate if you ceased to put words in my mouth. All you keep doing is projecting your beliefs (regarding themeparks and sandboxes and lunchboxes) onto things that were never said. Admittedly, I should have said Themeparks are ultimately the antithesis of true immersion.
Regardless, I have noticed that you seem to have some massive chips on your shoulder and everytime there is an opportunity for you to drag those skeletons out, you do so. I suggest you stop because assumtion and presumption do not make for good contentions in any form of debate.
I can definitely see this game being immersive for (as I stated) superficial everyday Joes. perhaps my perspective is the outdated one, but I like my games/books/movies to be meaningful. Not something I can simply switch on and off. I understand that that takes commitment and effort, which is why it is on its way out, and the new way is in.
There is nothing "immersive" to me about SWTOR. There is a sorry illusion of immersion. Oh, and an illusion that will probably shatter at 50. An illusion that won't be restored until the next expansion/content patch/DLC.
I guess that this illusion appears to the masses. It is shallow enough so that they don't get drawn in completely, and yet gives the sense of depth so at the end of the day, the feeling of fulfilment is there.
PS. Incidentally, you would do well to take your own advice.
"Why even spend time following a game of which they know that it has a gameplay design that abhors them, maybe possibly even make them physically feel sick and on the verge of vomiting?"
"Come on... isn't this the same old themepark vs sandbox argument that we've seen and read 10,000 times now?"
Just as you ask me to not follow this game (as I have commited the crime of being critical of it), you could elect to not acknowledge my posts if you feel that their content has been previously addressed. I am mature enough to be able to follow something even if it isn't to my tastes but I understand if this is an alien concept to some others out there.
Ah yes, the "I'm smarter and more advanced" arguement and thus "this game is beneath me" and "all those who do like it are dullards."
I've seen this before too...
Knowledge is not the end of the path towards logic, but the beginning.
You choose to be immersed or not. If you can ignore the fact that you are playing on a computer and still claim to be immersed then anything in game can be ignore as well.
Works both ways. What you said, I could point at each of you and make a defense for every MMO out there.
But that isn't what you had in mind, is it?
I think everyone agrees that developers can do a lot for immersion; my opinion is that BioWare's immersion is a hollow one . It's the same sort of immersion that ends when the movie is done. Yes, there will be 3000 page threads with fangirls talking about their favourite character. Yes, there will be artwork, poetry, stories.
But *for me*, being sequestered from the game world and it's inhabitants (the real players) and playing with the same NPCs is akin to playing amongst cardboard props.
Furthermore, the world BioWare is creating seems as lively as a world from one of their RPGs - not very. Chairs you can't sit on, no day and night cycle, no last names... All of this would be fine in a single player RPG. But in an MMO, it's very much the opposite of what immersion is to me.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I would appreciate if you ceased to put words in my mouth. All you keep doing is projecting your beliefs (regarding themeparks and sandboxes and lunchboxes) onto things that were never said. Admittedly, I should have said Themeparks are ultimately the antithesis of true immersion.
Regardless, I have noticed that you seem to have some massive chips on your shoulder and everytime there is an opportunity for you to drag those skeletons out, you do so. I suggest you stop because assumtion and presumption do not make for good contentions in any form of debate.
I can definitely see this game being immersive for (as I stated) superficial everyday Joes. perhaps my perspective is the outdated one, but I like my games/books/movies to be meaningful. Not something I can simply switch on and off. I understand that that takes commitment and effort, which is why it is on its way out, and the new way is in.
There is nothing "immersive" to me about SWTOR. There is a sorry illusion of immersion. Oh, and an illusion that will probably shatter at 50. An illusion that won't be restored until the next expansion/content patch/DLC.
I guess that this illusion appears to the masses. It is shallow enough so that they don't get drawn in completely, and yet gives the sense of depth so at the end of the day, the feeling of fulfilment is there.
PS. Incidentally, you would do well to take your own advice.
"Why even spend time following a game of which they know that it has a gameplay design that abhors them, maybe possibly even make them physically feel sick and on the verge of vomiting?"
"Come on... isn't this the same old themepark vs sandbox argument that we've seen and read 10,000 times now?"
Just as you ask me to not follow this game (as I have commited the crime of being critical of it), you could elect to not acknowledge my posts if you feel that their content has been previously addressed. I am mature enough to be able to follow something even if it isn't to my tastes but I understand if this is an alien concept to some others out there.
Ah yes, the "I'm smarter and more advanced" arguement and thus "this game is beneath me" and "all those who do like it are dullards."
I've seen this before too...
Hm, I'm not as smart as to read things that aren't there. So, hey, you surpass me there.
Would you like me to sing and dance about it?
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
SWG had Theme Parks - they actually called them Theme Parks in the game, like the Rebel Theme Park and Imperial Theme Park.
Jabba's Palace was the most popular Theme Park because 1/2 of the quests actually worked and weren't so buggy and broken they couldn't be completed.
The #1 complaint from the SWG community in regards to these Theme Parks is that there weren't enough of them, that they were buggy and broken, and that they wanted more.
The devs tried to give us the monthly story arcs instead, but it took them 30+ days to give us a few hours of new content a month.
Funny what you see when the rose-colored glasses come off....
Oh noes, the OP's thread has been hijacked by people who want to literally LIVE inside a game world! Sorry lifes so hard, but these are games.. The majority of people play games to waste time , or have fun as a hobby, then you have the lifers.. The guys who have evolved past the title "gamer" and achieved a level of digital enlightenment that no one wants. (lmao)
Anyway, to the OP. I agree, ToR is going to be fun for me. Cant wait to actually get in game. There are many things from WOW that I hope TOR does copy, and a few that I hope it does not.
I personally love theme park mmos.. I loved WoW until WoTlk, have many many good memories from it. I havent really thought about the "immersion" level of ToR, because Im going to play it because I love star wars, and as long as the game is good, regardless of what genre, or sub-genre it fits into I will enjoy it.
Does this make me "superficial" or , maybe I am a "noob"? I could care less either way
Playing games / having fun > Burying yourself in unattainable desires for a virtual reality
@empyros: your own false assumptions and misinterpretations aside, the question remains why people who have no interest or enjoyment in themepark MMO's at all, are still following themepark MMO discussions more so than they spend time on games they'd actually like. Yes, this still is very much a mystery to me because I'm not like that.
The OP states what will contribute to his sense of immersion. According to you - and probably others like you with the same viewpoint - that sense of immersion is impossible in themepark MMO's unless people have a shallow taste. Insulting way of regarding others aside, it should be obvious that what provides immersion to one person isn't the same as what provides immersion to another person.
If something can provide immersion in a singleplayer game, then that suddenly doesn't become unimmersive in an MMORPG just because it is in an MMO.
And quests that have VO, cinematics and choices that lead to different results and follow up quests is definitely more immersive than quests that are nothing more than a tasklist, and a barely camouflaged one at that. At least to those that can appreciate questing in an MMORPG.
If someone can't "get" that a themepark MMORPG can be immersive as well, or how it can be immersive, then maybe themepark MMO's isn't something they should keep following instead of MMO's that are more to their taste and own 'immersion preference'. This all should be simple, reasonable logic, imo.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
@empyros: your own false assumptions and misinterpretations aside, the question remains why people who have no interest or enjoyment in themepark MMO's at all, are still following themepark MMO discussions more so than they spend time on games they'd actually like. Yes, this still is very much a mystery to me because I'm not like that.
The OP states what will contribute to his sense of immersion. According to you - and probably others like you with the same viewpoint - that sense of immersion is impossible in themepark MMO's unless people have a shallow taste. Insulting way of regarding others aside, it should be obvious that what provides immersion to one person isn't the same as what provides immersion to another person.
If something can provide immersion in a singleplayer game, then that suddenly doesn't become unimmersive in an MMORPG just because it is in an MMO.
And quests that have VO, cinematics and choices that lead to different results and follow up quests is definitely more immersive than quests that are nothing more than a tasklist, and a barely camouflaged one at that. At least to those that can appreciate questing in an MMORPG.
If someone can't "get" that a themepark MMORPG can be immersive as well, or how it can be immersive, then maybe themepark MMO's isn't something they should keep following instead of MMO's that are more to their taste and own 'immersion preference'. This all should be simple, reasonable logic, imo.
No No No unless you agree with someone elses pseudo-logic 100% then you are obviously wrong and a dullard.
Besides, why be a highly advanced genius of a thinker and artisian if you aren't going to insult and belittle the little people beneath you?
OP I totally agree with you. What you wrote is exactly why I left WOW. I felt zero immersion. The first 60 levels before all the changes was amazing to me because it was my first online game back in 2004. Then a couple of years later, I found myself only logging in to say hi to people lol. I would try the expansions, but all they really are is a rehash of what was already done, but with higher numbers (levels and stats) assigned to you and the NPCs. The story felt weak and I couldn't bear to click on another identical quest just to hit accept. I think this game is going to change that, putting RPG back into MMORPG. It's all about immersion (and polish at release).
But now I'm having second thoughts. You see, one of the main reasons I got so bored with WoW was that it turned me into an MMO-questing machine. You worked through your list of (daily) quests and signed on for random dungeon or battleground instances. It wasn't a world anymore, it was a lobby, filled with chores.
You are right on the money Grumpy,
WoW and it's many clones have had their fair share time with me, which is the reason I took a break from the theme park mmo's. As much fun I had with mmo's of that nature, you can only suck on the same jolly rancher for so long. When Rift came out, it was the icing on the cake and I just had to give those types os mmo's a break.
Let's not kid ourselves though, as much as I love Star Wars, I know SWTOR isn't going to be SWG 2.0, but more of what SOE wanted the NGE to be (in a certain manner). Granted Bioware games are all known for their tremendous stories, but SWTOR is going to be a different version of the same Themepark MMO's, it will have battlegrounds, operations (raids), mission givers, dailys.
Most of all If you got fed up with everyone being Jedi unlocking in SWG with their sabers swinging, this game will have more force users than you could shake a stick at (get ready for lightsaber armageddon).
I will still play SWTOR when it comes out, but I don't know how long it will hold me, maybe 3 months or maybe 1+ years, however SWG managed to hold me for 2 straight years before the NGE was dropped on us, but not to derail at the subject, I too tire from the lobby type structure that mmo's have become and instant dungeon ques for gear and rep grinding.
If only someone could create DUNE as a Sandbox MMORPG (I would love CCP Games to tackle this IP), I would drop my theme park games in a instinct and not even look back.
@DJJazzy: I disagree: Arche Age, World of Darkness and Undead Labs' zombie MMO all look like to be sandbox MMO's or sandbox hybrid MMO's.
Besides, an MMORPG doesn't have to be a sandbox MMORPG to not be a traditional themepark MMORPG. I'd say that GW2, TSW, Firefall and Planetside 2 all are examples of MMORPG's that won't be traditional WoW-styled themepark MMORPG's but something else than that.
Perhaps. But what are the chances those three games come out in the next 5 years?
I agree about the hybrid model in those other games.
At the end of the day, a lot of the complainers are people venting from wanting a SWG remake. At least that is what it seems to me.
That's funny because, it slowly ended up with me hating this game. I was so pumped, then each update brought it closer to becoming a WoW clone. And there you have it. Sure it has fancy voice acting etc, but as the mechanics go by... it's WoW.
Oh noes, the OP's thread has been hijacked by people who want to literally LIVE inside a game world! Sorry lifes so hard, but these are games.. The majority of people play games to waste time , or have fun as a hobby, then you have the lifers.. The guys who have evolved past the title "gamer" and achieved a level of digital enlightenment that no one wants. (lmao)
Anyway, to the OP. I agree, ToR is going to be fun for me. Cant wait to actually get in game. There are many things from WOW that I hope TOR does copy, and a few that I hope it does not.
I personally love theme park mmos.. I loved WoW until WoTlk, have many many good memories from it. I havent really thought about the "immersion" level of ToR, because Im going to play it because I love star wars, and as long as the game is good, regardless of what genre, or sub-genre it fits into I will enjoy it.
Does this make me "superficial" or , maybe I am a "noob"? I could care less either way
Playing games / having fun > Burying yourself in unattainable desires for a virtual reality
Please go read what MMO RPG means , SWTOR will be a great environment to be played with half a dozen friends where we can have a laugh and enjoy a lot of immersion.
No one else really matters
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
@DJJazzy: I disagree: Arche Age, World of Darkness and Undead Labs' zombie MMO all look like to be sandbox MMO's or sandbox hybrid MMO's.
Besides, an MMORPG doesn't have to be a sandbox MMORPG to not be a traditional themepark MMORPG. I'd say that GW2, TSW, Firefall and Planetside 2 all are examples of MMORPG's that won't be traditional WoW-styled themepark MMORPG's but something else than that.
Perhaps. But what are the chances those three games come out in the next 5 years?
I agree about the hybrid model in those other games.
At the end of the day, a lot of the complainers are people venting from wanting a SWG remake. At least that is what it seems to me.
You make no sense in that first part, DJJazzy, since ALL of those games are due to come out in the next 2 or 3 years. As for the SWG comment, I agree for the most part, but there also seems to be a lot of people coming onto the SWTOR threads and complaining in order to "show" how good the game they are anticipating is. Pretty lame in my opinion, but it is happening a lot.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
OP I totally agree with you. What you wrote is exactly why I left WOW. I felt zero immersion. The first 60 levels before all the changes was amazing to me because it was my first online game back in 2004. Then a couple of years later, I found myself only logging in to say hi to people lol. I would try the expansions, but all they really are is a rehash of what was already done, but with higher numbers (levels and stats) assigned to you and the NPCs. The story felt weak and I couldn't bear to click on another identical quest just to hit accept. I think this game is going to change that, putting RPG back into MMORPG. It's all about immersion (and polish at release).
QFT! I have always enjoyed Bioware's rpgs. SWToR adds world pvp and instanced pvp to that mix. I have friends that keep asking me to come back to Wow, but the game is just too stale for me at this point.
Comments
Part of the problem, I think, is that there are no real sandbox mmos coming out. Or at least none that are being developed by a big developer.
Because they don't actually like any games is the problem -all of their sandbox games are total jokes run by scam companies.
Even EvE, the last-great-Sandbox is now just a front for the development funds to make a PS3 shooter and World of Darkness not to mention rip off their loyal players in a cash shop. Heck EvE has been "Buy to Win" since PLEX was introduced.
It's no wonder they are angry.
And if THEY can't have nice things, new shiny toys, then why should anyone else be allowed to have fun and look forward to something exciting right?
@DJJazzy: I disagree: Arche Age, World of Darkness and Undead Labs' zombie MMO all look like to be sandbox MMO's or sandbox hybrid MMO's.
Besides, an MMORPG doesn't have to be a sandbox MMORPG to not be a traditional themepark MMORPG. I'd say that GW2, TSW, Firefall and Planetside 2 all are examples of MMORPG's that won't be traditional WoW-styled themepark MMORPG's but something else than that.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If you don't want to turn into a questing machine, don't want to do daily quests, don't want to do dungeons that only leaves PvP after you hit cap. Getting to cap should be a decent story, after you hit level 50 however all bets are off. Endgame looks like it will be very much like WoW, it's the journey to endgame that should be significantly better. So enjoy the journey!
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
{mod edit} Admittedly, I should have said Themeparks are ultimately the antithesis of true immersion.
{mod edit}
I can definitely see this game being immersive for (as I stated) superficial everyday Joes. perhaps my perspective is the outdated one, but I like my games/books/movies to be meaningful. Not something I can simply switch on and off. I understand that that takes commitment and effort, which is why it is on its way out, and the new way is in.
There is nothing "immersive" to me about SWTOR. There is a sorry illusion of immersion. Oh, and an illusion that will probably shatter at 50. An illusion that won't be restored until the next expansion/content patch/DLC.
I guess that this illusion appears to the masses. It is shallow enough so that they don't get drawn in completely, and yet gives the sense of depth so at the end of the day, the feeling of fulfilment is there.
{mod edit}
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
You choose to be immersed or not. If you can ignore the fact that you are playing on a computer and still claim to be immersed then anything in game can be ignore as well.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Ah yes, the "I'm smarter and more advanced" arguement and thus "this game is beneath me" and "all those who do like it are dullards."
I've seen this before too...
Knowledge is not the end of the path towards logic, but the beginning.
Works both ways. What you said, I could point at each of you and make a defense for every MMO out there.
But that isn't what you had in mind, is it?
I think everyone agrees that developers can do a lot for immersion; my opinion is that BioWare's immersion is a hollow one . It's the same sort of immersion that ends when the movie is done. Yes, there will be 3000 page threads with fangirls talking about their favourite character. Yes, there will be artwork, poetry, stories.
But *for me*, being sequestered from the game world and it's inhabitants (the real players) and playing with the same NPCs is akin to playing amongst cardboard props.
Furthermore, the world BioWare is creating seems as lively as a world from one of their RPGs - not very. Chairs you can't sit on, no day and night cycle, no last names... All of this would be fine in a single player RPG. But in an MMO, it's very much the opposite of what immersion is to me.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Hm, I'm not as smart as to read things that aren't there. So, hey, you surpass me there.
Would you like me to sing and dance about it?
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
I felt incredibly immersed in the universe of Mass Effect playing through ME1 and 2.
I quit EvE after 3 months because it was a boring, time sink of a grind fest.
Does this mean I am less advanced and a dullard?
Funny piece of trivia-
SWG had Theme Parks - they actually called them Theme Parks in the game, like the Rebel Theme Park and Imperial Theme Park.
Jabba's Palace was the most popular Theme Park because 1/2 of the quests actually worked and weren't so buggy and broken they couldn't be completed.
The #1 complaint from the SWG community in regards to these Theme Parks is that there weren't enough of them, that they were buggy and broken, and that they wanted more.
The devs tried to give us the monthly story arcs instead, but it took them 30+ days to give us a few hours of new content a month.
Funny what you see when the rose-colored glasses come off....
Oh noes, the OP's thread has been hijacked by people who want to literally LIVE inside a game world! Sorry lifes so hard, but these are games.. The majority of people play games to waste time , or have fun as a hobby, then you have the lifers.. The guys who have evolved past the title "gamer" and achieved a level of digital enlightenment that no one wants. (lmao)
Anyway, to the OP. I agree, ToR is going to be fun for me. Cant wait to actually get in game. There are many things from WOW that I hope TOR does copy, and a few that I hope it does not.
I personally love theme park mmos.. I loved WoW until WoTlk, have many many good memories from it. I havent really thought about the "immersion" level of ToR, because Im going to play it because I love star wars, and as long as the game is good, regardless of what genre, or sub-genre it fits into I will enjoy it.
Does this make me "superficial" or , maybe I am a "noob"? I could care less either way
Playing games / having fun > Burying yourself in unattainable desires for a virtual reality
@empyros: your own false assumptions and misinterpretations aside, the question remains why people who have no interest or enjoyment in themepark MMO's at all, are still following themepark MMO discussions more so than they spend time on games they'd actually like. Yes, this still is very much a mystery to me because I'm not like that.
The OP states what will contribute to his sense of immersion. According to you - and probably others like you with the same viewpoint - that sense of immersion is impossible in themepark MMO's unless people have a shallow taste. Insulting way of regarding others aside, it should be obvious that what provides immersion to one person isn't the same as what provides immersion to another person.
If something can provide immersion in a singleplayer game, then that suddenly doesn't become unimmersive in an MMORPG just because it is in an MMO.
And quests that have VO, cinematics and choices that lead to different results and follow up quests is definitely more immersive than quests that are nothing more than a tasklist, and a barely camouflaged one at that. At least to those that can appreciate questing in an MMORPG.
If someone can't "get" that a themepark MMORPG can be immersive as well, or how it can be immersive, then maybe themepark MMO's isn't something they should keep following instead of MMO's that are more to their taste and own 'immersion preference'. This all should be simple, reasonable logic, imo.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
No No No unless you agree with someone elses pseudo-logic 100% then you are obviously wrong and a dullard.
Besides, why be a highly advanced genius of a thinker and artisian if you aren't going to insult and belittle the little people beneath you?
OP I totally agree with you. What you wrote is exactly why I left WOW. I felt zero immersion. The first 60 levels before all the changes was amazing to me because it was my first online game back in 2004. Then a couple of years later, I found myself only logging in to say hi to people lol. I would try the expansions, but all they really are is a rehash of what was already done, but with higher numbers (levels and stats) assigned to you and the NPCs. The story felt weak and I couldn't bear to click on another identical quest just to hit accept. I think this game is going to change that, putting RPG back into MMORPG. It's all about immersion (and polish at release).
There Is Always Hope!
You are right on the money Grumpy,
WoW and it's many clones have had their fair share time with me, which is the reason I took a break from the theme park mmo's. As much fun I had with mmo's of that nature, you can only suck on the same jolly rancher for so long. When Rift came out, it was the icing on the cake and I just had to give those types os mmo's a break.
Let's not kid ourselves though, as much as I love Star Wars, I know SWTOR isn't going to be SWG 2.0, but more of what SOE wanted the NGE to be (in a certain manner). Granted Bioware games are all known for their tremendous stories, but SWTOR is going to be a different version of the same Themepark MMO's, it will have battlegrounds, operations (raids), mission givers, dailys.
Most of all If you got fed up with everyone being Jedi unlocking in SWG with their sabers swinging, this game will have more force users than you could shake a stick at (get ready for lightsaber armageddon).
I will still play SWTOR when it comes out, but I don't know how long it will hold me, maybe 3 months or maybe 1+ years, however SWG managed to hold me for 2 straight years before the NGE was dropped on us, but not to derail at the subject, I too tire from the lobby type structure that mmo's have become and instant dungeon ques for gear and rep grinding.
If only someone could create DUNE as a Sandbox MMORPG (I would love CCP Games to tackle this IP), I would drop my theme park games in a instinct and not even look back.
Perhaps. But what are the chances those three games come out in the next 5 years?
I agree about the hybrid model in those other games.
At the end of the day, a lot of the complainers are people venting from wanting a SWG remake. At least that is what it seems to me.
That's funny because, it slowly ended up with me hating this game. I was so pumped, then each update brought it closer to becoming a WoW clone. And there you have it. Sure it has fancy voice acting etc, but as the mechanics go by... it's WoW.
I'm anticipating it, alway's enjoyed Bioware games.
As far as WoW clone or anything else go's...
I'll reserve judgement until I get to play the damn game.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Please go read what MMO RPG means , SWTOR will be a great environment to be played with half a dozen friends where we can have a laugh and enjoy a lot of immersion.
No one else really matters
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
You make no sense in that first part, DJJazzy, since ALL of those games are due to come out in the next 2 or 3 years. As for the SWG comment, I agree for the most part, but there also seems to be a lot of people coming onto the SWTOR threads and complaining in order to "show" how good the game they are anticipating is. Pretty lame in my opinion, but it is happening a lot.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Just roleplay there being 4 suns doing a constant ellipse around the planet making 24/4 daylight.
QFT! I have always enjoyed Bioware's rpgs. SWToR adds world pvp and instanced pvp to that mix. I have friends that keep asking me to come back to Wow, but the game is just too stale for me at this point.