1) New content won't just be a 'oh we threw in a couple new quests this week', it'll probably only be full blown expansion or major content patches (like 3 times a year ones).
As long as there is enough content, I don't think the patches will be much of a problem. Blizzard is notorious for taking their time releasing patches. "The new patch will be out Soon™"
2) Funcom's problem. If the game isn't amazingly successful, then they'll probably drop VO altogether,
If you're unfamiliar with what that means, you can find the definition in any dictionary site.
You act as though everything you say is a fact.
No, that is entirely your interpretation. Do i seriously have to preface everything I say with "IN MY OPINION" or "I THINK" or "FOR ME"? I am writing the post, of course it would be my opinion. Whose else would it be? If it were a fact, I'd cite the source.
[[ I could have brought up Kotaku's (I think) review of SWTOR quests and about how dull and generic they are, but I didn't because it was an old review -- so I'm not going to twist things simply to cast a negative light on the subject which is something you accuse me of doing. ]]
Stop projecting.
I do think (think not know) that the VO was worth it. I loved DA, but I don't think I would have enjoyed it half as much without the VO. It's what really got me into the story and the characters. For this same reason, I liked WC3 a lot more than WoW. All the characters in WoW seemed rather lifeless. I'd much rather spend my time listening to a VO story than reading half assed quest text. All my opinion though, not a fact.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Not that it addressed any of the points I raised, but whatever.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Phew, that is really a difficult question. I am not sure about this.
On the one hand, I totally LOATHE reading mindless text boxes. That was so boring and mind numbing! So VO is a real step ahead for me. On the other hand, it costs a lot, which means a lot money wasn't there for many gameplay improvements, VO are a huge moneysink, and the content/details can't be altered easily, since VO sort of makes quick changes impossible.
So I am 50/50 for both opinions.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Re. VO and cutscenes (even though you don't mention the latter, to talk about VOs, one has to remember the cutscenes as well)
No, it really wasn't.
Yes, it really is, imagine playing any single player game with no voice, I can guarantee people will drop the game in less than an hour, MMO is the same, presentation of the story is extremely important to keep players interested. But then again, the MMO genre is destroyed by people who likes to rush to endgame, hopefully you aren't one of those, or I'll just be wasting my time.
Unfortunately, when you throw in the two little words, "Star" and "Wars" into the mix, reason is swallowed up by obscene hype and fanboyism. People just don't want to realise it now, but it will create a horrible experience as it goes on - unless you really, really, really, and I mean, REALLY like themeparks.
This paragraph is too bias, firstly, there is nothing wrong with "obscene hype and fanboyism", it just shows how popular the genre can be, people are entitle to their own liking of any game. Admittingly, it can also bring a lot of hating and trolling since people are as informed to all mechanics of the games as others. In my view, hype/fanboy > trolling/hating, at least fanboys want games to succeed, yet haters just wants the game to fail, which is never good for the overall market.
Secondly, there is nothing wrong with themepark games, yet you make them sound like some sort of trash. In the current games, none of the games can really be called great themepark games, since they just made you to go treadmill runs of dungeons, which isn't what themepark is solely about. Themepark is about a guided path that leads you to different areas of the game world, not just dungeons.
People keep losing sight that this isn't an RPG. It's an MMO. It will be fun the first time around, but it will very quickly lose its charm once the novelty has worn off.
As far as I know, all Bioware games have more replayability than any MMORPG out there. When you are having a second playthrough, your story and choices can be different, which leads to different voice overs and cutscenes. Also Bioware has repeatedly stated that they are going to bring RPG back to MMORPG, there is nothing novel about RPG, it was suppose to be there since the beginning, just no recent games has succeed in that department, what company is better to bring that back then one of the best developers of RPG? (You can argue whether Bioware is the best at RPG in some other thread, but as far as overall industry, Bioware is achknowledged to be the best)
V.O. on it's own is definitely a step forward for the genre. But listening to some long-winded story to kill 10 space boars is as tedious as reading about it, if not more so.
Again, you are too far deep into the traditional MMO questing that you can't seem to imagine any possiblities beyond the "kill 10 space boars" structure. Sure the game is going to ask you to kill something, or capture something, but what game doesn't? Presenting an objective to the player is the most fundamental idea behind creating a game, but it is the presentation of the objective that separates great games from the shitty ones.
As for the "long-winded story", well thats up to you to decide for yourself, no story will appeal to everyone, maybe you don't even like stories, you seem like the sandbox type with your themepark bashing.
As for the cutscenes on their own - the story will be great, but it will suck for immersion in the long run. The RPer in me already cringes at how immersion breaking it will be to be hailed as someone with great potential, and then, when you get to the quest destination, there will be 50 other people there, all with the same "great potential". Or how every pilot out there has essentially the same romantic partner.
No devs has said anything about "someone with great potential" you could easily be 'just another recruit'. Even so, there is nothing wrong with one thousand guys being "someone with great potential", but there is something wrong with everyone being 'the saviour of the galaxy' or 'the villain of the story'. Sometimes it is hard for devs to create a story with no heroes, because that means you can't achieve anything without someone else doing the some as you did, you probably have to look past that if you want to experience any kind of RPG is a MMO setting. Bioware actually tried to differentiate players with the use of multi-story branching and morality choices, so minimum amount of players will have the exact same story and choices, at least they are bringing something new to it.
One also has to remember content patches and expacs. Will they VO + have cutscenes for everything? That's going to eat a significant chunk of their budget. And f they elect NOT to voice act everything, then it will create a severe disconnect - play AoC past level 20 and see what I mean.
If you are already worrying/complaining about future expansion packs, well how can people not see this as "hating"?
I truly want to believe everything will be okay. The VO/cutscenes were a great pull for me. I hated how in RPGs, after this great story, everything suddenly ends for your character. It's like after the game is done he ceases to exist. Being able to extend the life and story of that character is great and this MMO provides that. But the more I think about it, the more I am conflicted. It will certainly feel a little foolish to experience this great character story, only to meet thousands others experiencing the same thing. It will cheapen the whole immersive experience of a second world for me.
I'm not sure I'm getting what you are saying, so you want a MMORPG, yet you want the Single player experience of being "the only one"?
As for why others have call you "love to hate on TOR", you can't really blame them, most of your argument and worries aren't even VO or cutscene related, but more on the general design choices SWTOR made, such as Star Wars IP and its fanboys, players having the same achievements/stories, arguing whether it is a MMO or RPG.
Here is your rebuttal.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Someone from Bioware said: "After you played a game with full V.O., you'll never look back". And I agree with that
How to quantify the full VO and the cut-scene development?
That's my question... I won't deny it's nice to have it. Some will appreciate it more than others - but what was the tradeoff? I really don't know how to answer that.
Still for an MMO it might be of an hindrance: not only because it would slows the pace of game play but also because V.O. dialogs tend to get old faster than... quest you don't even read.
Then, due to the story focus, there are so many common features missing: from the guild bank down to LFG tool.
So the question is:
In the long term do you think the story will encompasses everything else?
You simply cannot answer that if you have no clue about the % of budget VO+cut scenes took.
My personal feeling is no, its not worth it, especially because i'm pretty sure it took them a high % they could have spend in "real" mmo features that desperately need it, even role playing and story telling features, which is exacly what Vo+cut scene is supposed to deal with.
VO+ cut scene is just a technology that doesn't fit mmo, i'm sorry, and i think gamers will understand it fast enough, even if many will claim the opposite now. I understand they came from solo gaming blablabla, but they should have understood the first year of design that this is just not working properly, they should at least have cornered the biggest issues like group conversations, and its clear they haven't.
If they had found a better way to have animated scene in a mmo environment, this mean in the game world, then it would have been a blast for sure. And that is what they should have done rather than just copying their solo game planning board in their next mmo. Its pretty clear nobody in their company think about anything anymore, they just rehash a formula without many thinking behind, the thinking is done afterward and i'm not sure this will work very well. Such port as Bioware have done, from their solo gaming experience to mmo gaming needed a very strong brainstorming behind. I don't know if they even did that, i just don't feel a second as if they did that tbh. I know its very easy to criticize someone work, especially once its done, and i usually don't do it lightly, but still, it have to be done i guess, they have one of the best gaming experience and biggest budget, i'm sorry guys, this is not meant to offend anyone. They should have put more thinking imo.
Still for an MMO it might be of an hindrance: not only because it would slows the pace of game play but also because V.O. dialogs tend to get old faster than... quest you don't even read.
Then, due to the story focus, there are so many common features missing: from the guild bank down to LFG tool.
So the question is:
In the long term do you think the story will encompasses everything else?
You simply cannot answer that if you have no clue about the % of budget VO+cut scenes took.
My personal feeling is no, its not worth it, especially because i'm pretty sure it took them a high % they could have spend in "real" mmo features that desperately need it, even role playing and story telling features, which is exacly what Vo+cut scene is supposed to deal with.
VO+ cut scene is just a technology that doesn't fit mmo, i'm sorry, and i think gamers will understand it fast enough, even if many will claim the opposite now. I understand they came from solo gaming blablabla, but they should have understood the first year of design that this is just not working properly, they should at least have cornered the biggest issues like group conversations, and its clear they haven't.
If they had found a better way to have animated scene in a mmo environment, this mean in the game world, then it would have been a blast for sure. And that is what they should have done rather than just copying their solo game planning board in their next mmo. Its pretty clear nobody in their company think about anything anymore, they just rehash a formula without many thinking behind, the thinking is done afterward and i'm not sure this will work very well. Such port as Bioware have done, from their solo gaming experience to mmo gaming needed a very strong brainstorming behind. I don't know if they even did that, i just don't feel a second as if they did that tbh. I know its very easy to criticize someone work, especially once its done, and i usually don't do it lightly, but still, it have to be done i guess, they have one of the best gaming experience and biggest budget, i'm sorry guys, this is not meant to offend anyone. They should have put more thinking imo.
What are these "real" mmo features you are talking about? If it is sandbox features, then you are looking at the wrong game. This was never going to be and is not a sandbox type MMO. It is a themepark, plain and simple. And those looking for a better themepark experience will like this game without a doubt.
The VO in BWs' SPGs makes the game feel more alive IMO. You get attached to what is going on and how NPCs and your character react through the choices you make. Now in a MMO setting, this can still be a big feature. As long as the themepark open world gaming occurs withing the same space. And I believe that both will co-exist very well in TOR.
For me, the text in current MMOs is pointless. It is completely unecessary. Most players just click the accept button and follow the arrow to the map to complete the quest, then turn it in. Why even have text at all? With VO and cutscenes that act out your choice. You can see the story unfold as it happens. NPCs react to your choices and the story can change based on that. And you can exchange these story choices with your guild or friends. Or even share them while they happen if you are grouped.
So the VO can and will IMO change how many gamers quest in TOR. Not everyone obviously. There will always be those who will skip everything and blast through the content like it wasn't there. And those who will ignore everyone and play the game as a SPG. But many will play the game as a MMO with a much much better questing experience. The story, choices and VO will make for a much better game for those who want a better themepark MMO. Those who don't won't care at all and will yell "fail" at the top of their lungs.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Re. VO and cutscenes (even though you don't mention the latter, to talk about VOs, one has to remember the cutscenes as well)
No, it really wasn't.
Unfortunately, when you throw in the two little words, "Star" and "Wars" into the mix, reason is swallowed up by obscene hype and fanboyism. People just don't want to realise it now, but it will create a horrible experience as it goes on - unless you really, really, really, and I mean, REALLY like themeparks.
People keep losing sight that this isn't an RPG. It's an MMO. It will be fun the first time around, but it will very quickly lose its charm once the novelty has worn off.
V.O. on it's own is definitely a step forward for the genre. But listening to some long-winded story to kill 10 space boars is as tedious as reading about it, if not more so.
As for the cutscenes on their own - the story will be great, but it will suck for immersion in the long run. The RPer in me already cringes at how immersion breaking it will be to be hailed as someone with great potential, and then, when you get to the quest destination, there will be 50 other people there, all with the same "great potential". Or how every pilot out there has essentially the same romantic partner.
One also has to remember content patches and expacs. Will they VO + have cutscenes for everything? That's going to eat a significant chunk of their budget. And f they elect NOT to voice act everything, then it will create a severe disconnect - play AoC past level 20 and see what I mean.
I truly want to believe everything will be okay. The VO/cutscenes were a great pull for me. I hated how in RPGs, after this great story, everything suddenly ends for your character. It's like after the game is done he ceases to exist. Being able to extend the life and story of that character is great and this MMO provides that. But the more I think about it, the more I am conflicted. It will certainly feel a little foolish to experience this great character story, only to meet thousands others experiencing the same thing. It will cheapen the whole immersive experience of a second world for me.
I'm sorry, but you are very wrong. This is not an "MMO," it is an MMORPG. It is being made by Bioware, one of the kings of RPGs, so you might as well bold and underline the "RPG" portion of the "MMORPG." If you expect any different, then you are due to be very disappointed.
Also, the devs have said that they have several hundred hours of voice acted scripted content that hasn't yet made it into the game, so expect all future released content to be fully story driven and voice acted as well. Finally, unless you make the exact same choices as another person, your character will be experiencing a completely different story than pretty much everyone.
Originally posted by Deewe One can't deny V.O. story sounds nice. Still for an MMO it might be of an hindrance: not only because it would slows the pace of game play but also because V.O. dialogs tend to get old faster than... quest you don't even read. Then, due to the story focus, there are so many common features missing: from the guild bank down to LFG tool. So the question is: In the long term do you think the story will encompasses everything else?
You simply cannot answer that if you have no clue about the % of budget VO+cut scenes took.
My personal feeling is no, its not worth it, especially because i'm pretty sure it took them a high % they could have spend in "real" mmo features that desperately need it, even role playing and story telling features, which is exacly what Vo+cut scene is supposed to deal with. VO+ cut scene is just a technology that doesn't fit mmo, i'm sorry, and i think gamers will understand it fast enough, even if many will claim the opposite now. I understand they came from solo gaming blablabla, but they should have understood the first year of design that this is just not working properly, they should at least have cornered the biggest issues like group conversations, and its clear they haven't.
If they had found a better way to have animated scene in a mmo environment, this mean in the game world, then it would have been a blast for sure. And that is what they should have done rather than just copying their solo game planning board in their next mmo. Its pretty clear nobody in their company think about anything anymore, they just rehash a formula without many thinking behind, the thinking is done afterward and i'm not sure this will work very well. Such port as Bioware have done, from their solo gaming experience to mmo gaming needed a very strong brainstorming behind. I don't know if they even did that, i just don't feel a second as if they did that tbh. I know its very easy to criticize someone work, especially once its done, and i usually don't do it lightly, but still, it have to be done i guess, they have one of the best gaming experience and biggest budget, i'm sorry guys, this is not meant to offend anyone. They should have put more thinking imo.
What are these "real" mmo features you are talking about? If it is sandbox features, then you are looking at the wrong game. This was never going to be and is not a sandbox type MMO. It is a themepark, plain and simple. And those looking for a better themepark experience will like this game without a doubt. The VO in BWs' SPGs makes the game feel more alive IMO. You get attached to what is going on and how NPCs and your character react through the choices you make. Now in a MMO setting, this can still be a big feature. As long as the themepark open world gaming occurs withing the same space. And I believe that both will co-exist very well in TOR. For me, the text in current MMOs is pointless. It is completely unecessary. Most players just click the accept button and follow the arrow to the map to complete the quest, then turn it in. Why even have text at all? With VO and cutscenes that act out your choice. You can see the story unfold as it happens. NPCs react to your choices and the story can change based on that. And you can exchange these story choices with your guild or friends. Or even share them while they happen if you are grouped. So the VO can and will IMO change how many gamers quest in TOR. Not everyone obviously. There will always be those who will skip everything and blast through the content like it wasn't there. And those who will ignore everyone and play the game as a SPG. But many will play the game as a MMO with a much much better questing experience. The story, choices and VO will make for a much better game for those who want a better themepark MMO. Those who don't won't care at all and will yell "fail" at the top of their lungs.
No i'm not talking about sandbox features, for me themepark as well as sandbox are proper build for mmos, i played both extensively, and if i prefer sandbox some of my best mmo are themeparks. "Real" meant something that could actually help the massive multiplayer aspect as well as the RPG. In short the system they use is perfect in a single player game, but it is not in a mmo. They should have tweaked their system when porting it into an mmo.
And i agree text isn't that good either, but it have nothing to do in my comment.
Still for an MMO it might be of an hindrance: not only because it would slows the pace of game play but also because V.O. dialogs tend to get old faster than... quest you don't even read.
Then, due to the story focus, there are so many common features missing: from the guild bank down to LFG tool.
So the question is:
In the long term do you think the story will encompasses everything else?
You simply cannot answer that if you have no clue about the % of budget VO+cut scenes took.
My personal feeling is no, its not worth it, especially because i'm pretty sure it took them a high % they could have spend in "real" mmo features that desperately need it, even role playing and story telling features, which is exacly what Vo+cut scene is supposed to deal with.
VO+ cut scene is just a technology that doesn't fit mmo, i'm sorry, and i think gamers will understand it fast enough, even if many will claim the opposite now. I understand they came from solo gaming blablabla, but they should have understood the first year of design that this is just not working properly, they should at least have cornered the biggest issues like group conversations, and its clear they haven't.
If they had found a better way to have animated scene in a mmo environment, this mean in the game world, then it would have been a blast for sure. And that is what they should have done rather than just copying their solo game planning board in their next mmo. Its pretty clear nobody in their company think about anything anymore, they just rehash a formula without many thinking behind, the thinking is done afterward and i'm not sure this will work very well. Such port as Bioware have done, from their solo gaming experience to mmo gaming needed a very strong brainstorming behind. I don't know if they even did that, i just don't feel a second as if they did that tbh. I know its very easy to criticize someone work, especially once its done, and i usually don't do it lightly, but still, it have to be done i guess, they have one of the best gaming experience and biggest budget, i'm sorry guys, this is not meant to offend anyone. They should have put more thinking imo.
What are these "real" mmo features you are talking about? If it is sandbox features, then you are looking at the wrong game. This was never going to be and is not a sandbox type MMO. It is a themepark, plain and simple. And those looking for a better themepark experience will like this game without a doubt.
The VO in BWs' SPGs makes the game feel more alive IMO. You get attached to what is going on and how NPCs and your character react through the choices you make. Now in a MMO setting, this can still be a big feature. As long as the themepark open world gaming occurs withing the same space. And I believe that both will co-exist very well in TOR.
For me, the text in current MMOs is pointless. It is completely unecessary. Most players just click the accept button and follow the arrow to the map to complete the quest, then turn it in. Why even have text at all? With VO and cutscenes that act out your choice. You can see the story unfold as it happens. NPCs react to your choices and the story can change based on that. And you can exchange these story choices with your guild or friends. Or even share them while they happen if you are grouped.
So the VO can and will IMO change how many gamers quest in TOR. Not everyone obviously. There will always be those who will skip everything and blast through the content like it wasn't there. And those who will ignore everyone and play the game as a SPG. But many will play the game as a MMO with a much much better questing experience. The story, choices and VO will make for a much better game for those who want a better themepark MMO. Those who don't won't care at all and will yell "fail" at the top of their lungs.
No i'm not talking about sandbox features, for me themepark as well as sandbox are proper build for mmos, i played both extensively, and if i prefer sandbox some of my best mmo are themeparks. "Real" meant something that could actually help the massive multiplayer aspect as well as the RPG. In short the system they use is perfect in a single player game, but it is not in a mmo. They should have tweaked their system when porting it into an mmo.
And i agree text isn't that good either, but it have nothing to do in my comment.
How exactly does a one or two minute cut scene that let's you make decisions and actually has real meaning work in a SPG, but not a MMO? Seems to me that it adds to the "reality" of the game for me. No more "Yes, I will take this quest." or "No, I do not want to do this right now.". Plus all the players get to have a hand in making the decision instead of just the team leader or mission owner (barring personal story line quests of course). Are you saying THAT doesn't add to the MMO aspect of the game? I have a feeling that it will incentify more people to team up since they actually get to help in the decisions now. I am really confused here and would love for you to clarify this.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I have only just played my 1st Bioware game, Mass Effect 2. I have never really been into story telling etc but I must say I'm hooked. If SWTOR Story telling is the same I can't wait...
I have only just played my 1st Bioware game, Mass Effect 2. I have never really been into story telling etc but I must say I'm hooked. If SWTOR Story telling is the same I can't wait...
Welcome to the fan wagon. I started way back with Baldurs Gate and have been hooked ever since. Of course every game gets judged on it's own merit, but so far they have not let me down. I personally even liked DA2. Not as good as DA: Origins, but still a good game in it's own right.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I have only just played my 1st Bioware game, Mass Effect 2. I have never really been into story telling etc but I must say I'm hooked. If SWTOR Story telling is the same I can't wait...
Welcome to the Bio-Express
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
IMO the idea of having a immersive story with great voice overs to dull the monotony of the quest grind is a good one. I don't however think that the quest model is the way forward for the genre and more importantly I think that a new MMO should provide more innovation that just voice overs.
IMO the idea of having a immersive story with great voice overs to dull the monotony of the quest grind is a good one. I don't however think that the quest model is the way forward for the genre and more importantly I think that a new MMO should provide more innovation that just voice overs.
Like a completely different crafting system than you will find in most games? Or perhaps you mean actually giving incentives to team up with other players? Then of course you could mean a game that has player housing at the very start of the game? Maybe pets that do more than run around and get stuck in a wall? An active cover system mechanic instead of just Line of Sight blocking? I know, you mean something like branching quest lines and decisions that affect later gameplay?
I'm getting tired here so I will just assume you mean one of those innovating things BioWare is doing instead of going down the entire list.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
IMO the idea of having a immersive story with great voice overs to dull the monotony of the quest grind is a good one. I don't however think that the quest model is the way forward for the genre and more importantly I think that a new MMO should provide more innovation that just voice overs.
Like a completely different crafting system than you will find in most games? Or perhaps you mean actually giving incentives to team up with other players? Then of course you could mean a game that has player housing at the very start of the game? Maybe pets that do more than run around and get stuck in a wall? An active cover system mechanic instead of just Line of Sight blocking? I know, you mean something like branching quest lines and decisions that affect later gameplay?
I'm getting tired here so I will just assume you mean one of those innovating things BioWare is doing instead of going down the entire list.
I have only just played my 1st Bioware game, Mass Effect 2. I have never really been into story telling etc but I must say I'm hooked. If SWTOR Story telling is the same I can't wait...
Welcome to the fan wagon. I started way back with Baldurs Gate and have been hooked ever since. Of course every game gets judged on it's own merit, but so far they have not let me down. I personally even liked DA2. Not as good as DA: Origins, but still a good game in it's own right.
I agree with this. I haven't played a Bioware game I haven't liked. Honestly, it's probably the only reason why I'll pick up this game as I'm not a Star Wars fan.
Yes the Voice Over story was worth it, it's the only reason I will play this game as it would be the first MMO with a story I actually care about and I'm not even a Star Wars fan.
I have only just played my 1st Bioware game, Mass Effect 2. I have never really been into story telling etc but I must say I'm hooked. If SWTOR Story telling is the same I can't wait...
Welcome to the fan wagon. I started way back with Baldurs Gate and have been hooked ever since. Of course every game gets judged on it's own merit, but so far they have not let me down. I personally even liked DA2. Not as good as DA: Origins, but still a good game in it's own right.
I agree with this. I haven't played a Bioware game I haven't liked. Honestly, it's probably the only reason why I'll pick up this game as I'm not a Star Wars fan.
oddly enough, i got hooked on the Mass Effect series by playing the second one, so much so i went and bought the first Mass Effect, result, the first one is actually a lot better than the second, but..... Dragon Age;Origins i found was a bit too much of a grind.. after buying the game i found i had to force myself to play it.. and unlike Mass Effect, it was at times too much of a chore to be bothered with it.. DA2... i won't even go there.. for me the game was too much of an Epic Fail.. i keep trying to play DA;O from time to time, just because i feel as though if i don't i'll have wasted all that money on it, which is annoying... but it has made me increasingly wary of Bioware games, Mass Effect 3.. i really really hope that it isnt Mass Effects version of DA2.. that would be way too cruel.. as for SW;TOR though, i've never thought that the Jedi themselves, should be playable, it really goes against everything i've come to associate with Star Wars, but then i wasnt a fan of the prequel films either, i always felt they were just a cash grab and poorly thought out at best, introducing such concepts as midichlorians... epic fail moments like that just ruined the whole Star Wars mythos for me, instead, all i see in SW;TOR is a number of things that i don't even consider to be Star Wars related, but.. at least the game has Voice Overs.. ... right..
I prefer the Mass Effect series over the Dragon Age series as well. I liked DA2 though but they made some poor design decisions that hopefully they correct for their next game in the series.
No i'm not talking about sandbox features, for me themepark as well as sandbox are proper build for mmos, i played both extensively, and if i prefer sandbox some of my best mmo are themeparks. "Real" meant something that could actually help the massive multiplayer aspect as well as the RPG. In short the system they use is perfect in a single player game, but it is not in a mmo. They should have tweaked their system when porting it into an mmo.
And i agree text isn't that good either, but it have nothing to do in my comment.
You are missing the entire picture of how TOR will function. It is an open world MMO. The same as LOTRO and WoW. IMO it is closer to LOTRO with the epic story line LOTRO has for it's story. That didn't make LOTRO a SPG did it?
So all that is changing in TOR is how you accept a quest. All the rest of the MMORPG will be open world questing, crafting, grouping for heroics, flashpoints, operations, group story content and what ever else you want to group up for. Just because the NPC's that hand out quests will have cutscenes with VO dialogue and choice doesn't make TOR a single player game. It just makes it a more interesting MMO. I say "down with the text box questing".
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Yes the Voice Over story was worth it, it's the only reason I will play this game as it would be the first MMO with a story I actually care about and I'm not even a Star Wars fan.
Well you might have missed LotRo then because there's story in it and I would say it blends very well with the books.
Then that's what I more concerned about:
Originally posted by Jackdog
I am buying this game to play it for 30 - 60 days. If it does not have more of a hook than the voiceovers that is all I will play it. 60 dollars for 30 days of entertainment works for me.
Yeah, bioware should have skipped the voice overs along with everything else that makes their games unique just for a lfg tool and swimming. Then TOR would truely be just like every other game out there. Opinions such as these is the reason I'm glad guys like op will never bee in charge of game development.
Comments
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Phew, that is really a difficult question. I am not sure about this.
On the one hand, I totally LOATHE reading mindless text boxes. That was so boring and mind numbing! So VO is a real step ahead for me. On the other hand, it costs a lot, which means a lot money wasn't there for many gameplay improvements, VO are a huge moneysink, and the content/details can't be altered easily, since VO sort of makes quick changes impossible.
So I am 50/50 for both opinions.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
As for why others have call you "love to hate on TOR", you can't really blame them, most of your argument and worries aren't even VO or cutscene related, but more on the general design choices SWTOR made, such as Star Wars IP and its fanboys, players having the same achievements/stories, arguing whether it is a MMO or RPG.
Here is your rebuttal.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
How to quantify the full VO and the cut-scene development?
That's my question... I won't deny it's nice to have it. Some will appreciate it more than others - but what was the tradeoff? I really don't know how to answer that.
You simply cannot answer that if you have no clue about the % of budget VO+cut scenes took.
My personal feeling is no, its not worth it, especially because i'm pretty sure it took them a high % they could have spend in "real" mmo features that desperately need it, even role playing and story telling features, which is exacly what Vo+cut scene is supposed to deal with.
VO+ cut scene is just a technology that doesn't fit mmo, i'm sorry, and i think gamers will understand it fast enough, even if many will claim the opposite now. I understand they came from solo gaming blablabla, but they should have understood the first year of design that this is just not working properly, they should at least have cornered the biggest issues like group conversations, and its clear they haven't.
If they had found a better way to have animated scene in a mmo environment, this mean in the game world, then it would have been a blast for sure. And that is what they should have done rather than just copying their solo game planning board in their next mmo. Its pretty clear nobody in their company think about anything anymore, they just rehash a formula without many thinking behind, the thinking is done afterward and i'm not sure this will work very well. Such port as Bioware have done, from their solo gaming experience to mmo gaming needed a very strong brainstorming behind. I don't know if they even did that, i just don't feel a second as if they did that tbh. I know its very easy to criticize someone work, especially once its done, and i usually don't do it lightly, but still, it have to be done i guess, they have one of the best gaming experience and biggest budget, i'm sorry guys, this is not meant to offend anyone. They should have put more thinking imo.
What are these "real" mmo features you are talking about? If it is sandbox features, then you are looking at the wrong game. This was never going to be and is not a sandbox type MMO. It is a themepark, plain and simple. And those looking for a better themepark experience will like this game without a doubt.
The VO in BWs' SPGs makes the game feel more alive IMO. You get attached to what is going on and how NPCs and your character react through the choices you make. Now in a MMO setting, this can still be a big feature. As long as the themepark open world gaming occurs withing the same space. And I believe that both will co-exist very well in TOR.
For me, the text in current MMOs is pointless. It is completely unecessary. Most players just click the accept button and follow the arrow to the map to complete the quest, then turn it in. Why even have text at all? With VO and cutscenes that act out your choice. You can see the story unfold as it happens. NPCs react to your choices and the story can change based on that. And you can exchange these story choices with your guild or friends. Or even share them while they happen if you are grouped.
So the VO can and will IMO change how many gamers quest in TOR. Not everyone obviously. There will always be those who will skip everything and blast through the content like it wasn't there. And those who will ignore everyone and play the game as a SPG. But many will play the game as a MMO with a much much better questing experience. The story, choices and VO will make for a much better game for those who want a better themepark MMO. Those who don't won't care at all and will yell "fail" at the top of their lungs.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
@xKingdomx Brilliant post. You put my thoughts into words, which I obviously did a terrible job of.
I'm sorry, but you are very wrong. This is not an "MMO," it is an MMORPG. It is being made by Bioware, one of the kings of RPGs, so you might as well bold and underline the "RPG" portion of the "MMORPG." If you expect any different, then you are due to be very disappointed.
Also, the devs have said that they have several hundred hours of voice acted scripted content that hasn't yet made it into the game, so expect all future released content to be fully story driven and voice acted as well. Finally, unless you make the exact same choices as another person, your character will be experiencing a completely different story than pretty much everyone.
No i'm not talking about sandbox features, for me themepark as well as sandbox are proper build for mmos, i played both extensively, and if i prefer sandbox some of my best mmo are themeparks. "Real" meant something that could actually help the massive multiplayer aspect as well as the RPG. In short the system they use is perfect in a single player game, but it is not in a mmo. They should have tweaked their system when porting it into an mmo.
And i agree text isn't that good either, but it have nothing to do in my comment.
How exactly does a one or two minute cut scene that let's you make decisions and actually has real meaning work in a SPG, but not a MMO? Seems to me that it adds to the "reality" of the game for me. No more "Yes, I will take this quest." or "No, I do not want to do this right now.". Plus all the players get to have a hand in making the decision instead of just the team leader or mission owner (barring personal story line quests of course). Are you saying THAT doesn't add to the MMO aspect of the game? I have a feeling that it will incentify more people to team up since they actually get to help in the decisions now. I am really confused here and would love for you to clarify this.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I'm more worried about the mmo part ruining my KOTOR 3 than I am about the voice over ruining the MMO.
I have only just played my 1st Bioware game, Mass Effect 2. I have never really been into story telling etc but I must say I'm hooked. If SWTOR Story telling is the same I can't wait...
Welcome to the fan wagon. I started way back with Baldurs Gate and have been hooked ever since. Of course every game gets judged on it's own merit, but so far they have not let me down. I personally even liked DA2. Not as good as DA: Origins, but still a good game in it's own right.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Welcome to the Bio-Express
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
IMO the idea of having a immersive story with great voice overs to dull the monotony of the quest grind is a good one. I don't however think that the quest model is the way forward for the genre and more importantly I think that a new MMO should provide more innovation that just voice overs.
Reward creativity and innovation in games.
Like a completely different crafting system than you will find in most games? Or perhaps you mean actually giving incentives to team up with other players? Then of course you could mean a game that has player housing at the very start of the game? Maybe pets that do more than run around and get stuck in a wall? An active cover system mechanic instead of just Line of Sight blocking? I know, you mean something like branching quest lines and decisions that affect later gameplay?
I'm getting tired here so I will just assume you mean one of those innovating things BioWare is doing instead of going down the entire list.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Or like someone whining in a very sarcastic way?
I agree with this. I haven't played a Bioware game I haven't liked. Honestly, it's probably the only reason why I'll pick up this game as I'm not a Star Wars fan.
Yes the Voice Over story was worth it, it's the only reason I will play this game as it would be the first MMO with a story I actually care about and I'm not even a Star Wars fan.
oddly enough, i got hooked on the Mass Effect series by playing the second one, so much so i went and bought the first Mass Effect, result, the first one is actually a lot better than the second, but..... Dragon Age;Origins i found was a bit too much of a grind.. after buying the game i found i had to force myself to play it.. and unlike Mass Effect, it was at times too much of a chore to be bothered with it.. DA2... i won't even go there.. for me the game was too much of an Epic Fail.. i keep trying to play DA;O from time to time, just because i feel as though if i don't i'll have wasted all that money on it, which is annoying... but it has made me increasingly wary of Bioware games, Mass Effect 3.. i really really hope that it isnt Mass Effects version of DA2.. that would be way too cruel.. as for SW;TOR though, i've never thought that the Jedi themselves, should be playable, it really goes against everything i've come to associate with Star Wars, but then i wasnt a fan of the prequel films either, i always felt they were just a cash grab and poorly thought out at best, introducing such concepts as midichlorians... epic fail moments like that just ruined the whole Star Wars mythos for me, instead, all i see in SW;TOR is a number of things that i don't even consider to be Star Wars related, but.. at least the game has Voice Overs.. ... right..
I prefer the Mass Effect series over the Dragon Age series as well. I liked DA2 though but they made some poor design decisions that hopefully they correct for their next game in the series.
You are missing the entire picture of how TOR will function. It is an open world MMO. The same as LOTRO and WoW. IMO it is closer to LOTRO with the epic story line LOTRO has for it's story. That didn't make LOTRO a SPG did it?
So all that is changing in TOR is how you accept a quest. All the rest of the MMORPG will be open world questing, crafting, grouping for heroics, flashpoints, operations, group story content and what ever else you want to group up for. Just because the NPC's that hand out quests will have cutscenes with VO dialogue and choice doesn't make TOR a single player game. It just makes it a more interesting MMO. I say "down with the text box questing".
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Well you might have missed LotRo then because there's story in it and I would say it blends very well with the books.
Then that's what I more concerned about:
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft