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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Sex & Games & Rolling Dice

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,632MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Earlier this week, a video interview with one of Bioware's developers stirred up a veritable poop storm of controversy when it was suggested that Star Wars: The Old Republic would not feature same-sex relationships between players and compantions. In his latest column, MMORPG.com Managing Editor Bill Murphy offers his opinion on the issue. Read on and then weigh in with your (calm, cool & collected) thoughts in the comments.

But in all honesty, I guess I just don’t get the hubbub. I won’t go into the reasons BioWare has for not including this option (did they give one?), but I’d like to comment on why it’s such a big deal in the first place. I’m straight, not narrow. And while there wasn’t (that I know of) any same-sex relations in either trilogy, I’m willing to bet there have been a few instances of such things in the bazillion books which have been written. Is there then precedent?

Read more of Bill Murphy's Sex & Games & Rolling Dice.


Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Nooo, AKPosts: 1,781Member

    Star Wars is for children, they decided that Gay and Lesbian relationships aren't for children.  Thats ONE reason... there's so many possible and plausible reasons to go along with it.  For instance... they didn't want to have to write MORE script and record MORE audio for alternate homosexual story-arcs. 

    And the list goes on

    Take that as you wish.

    (Sidenote: In the original KOTOR, Juhani was the first lesbian to make an apperance in the SW mythos, though there was no actual romance story-line with her character.  It was merely a vague declaration at the end of the game, if I'm not mistaken.  Exact facts may be distorted by many years of time.)


  • Khaine007Khaine007 Kansas City, MOPosts: 35Member

    I will start off by saying that I myself am not gay, but I am fully 100% supporting the idea of having same-sex relationships in the game.  As stated in the article, why are we removing the choice to play that way for all those who are?  The relationships with your companions will all just be personal, and not affect other players, so why are they removing that option from a portion of their subscribers?

    Bioware could go a long ways towards ending a lot of the hate after that announcement if they'd just release their reasoning behind removing that option.  I doubt that the companion relationships will be a big part of the storytelling, but to just completely dismiss an entire group of people/players seems kind of unwarrented.

  • slicknslim88slicknslim88 Norfolk, VAPosts: 394Member

    I say just let players make their own relationships, take the system out entirely.  Take yet another page out of WoW's book, which they seem to be following cover to cover up until now, and oust any sort of relationship feature entirely.  It's not needed, and if your going to be contravercial about it, it's probably best to leave it out.

  • ElidienElidien Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,058Member

    I can understand the frustration and personally think if Bioware was going to include relationships at all, then they should include same-sex relationships as well. However, I guess I am old school because I like having relationships with people and not characters in a  game. I rather form friendships or even romantic relationships with a person and not some animated character with pre-dtermined phrases and comments. It is as fake as fake can get and in every possible way.

    So honestly, I do not get it. I will not have a relationship with any companion in the game but with the other people playing the game. That is what matters to me. And I can control whatever type of relationship I want to be in and Bioware cannot change that.

  • ScorpionOneScorpionOne Mechanicville, NYPosts: 190Member Uncommon

    Mm.  How to start this?

    Well, let's take a look at history a bit.  I played Knights of the Old Republic.  And in those games, yes, you had relationships, but they were man to woman.  And there wasn't such a screaming, that I knew of back then, from the LBGT people.  And Bioware gave you a choice to be involved in the relationship aspect or not.

    Fast forward to today.  The voices from the LBGT group are loud and proud.  They make they're presence known, as they should, they are in fact a minority based on sexual orientation.  Bioware, in Mass Effect and Dragon Age, put in the same sex relationships as a valid choice, and why shouldn't they?  But the question begs to be asked.  And you may have pointed this out, Bill.  Dragon Age and Mass Effect are NOT Star Wars.  Star Wars is a name that's been around since 1979 (?) if not a bit before.   There may be a certain expectation there.  Dragon Age and Mass Effect have only been around for 5 years.  And in those 5 years (and again I should go back about 5-10 years further back but that's when ME and DA came out, about 5 years ago), LBGT relationships have become acceptable (Outside of the complete religious right wing nuts screaming foul at the top of their lungs, but that's a seperate debate for another forum) and no one said boo about that in those games.

    It could be two things.  One, Bioware might be keeping to Star Wars so as to not break the trend they set in THAT GAME.  Or two, they are getting pressure from someone (LucasArts, government, special interest group), to keep the same sex out of the game.

    There could be more.  But I want to keep my thoughts open ended.

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  • KwintpodKwintpod derpPosts: 262Member

    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA



    Star Wars is for children, they decided that Gay and Lesbian relationships aren't for children.  Thats ONE reason... there's so many possible and plausible reasons to go along with it.  For instance... they didn't want to have to write MORE script and record MORE audio for alternate homosexual story-arcs. 

     


     

    I don't see how gay or lesbian relationships would be any less suitable than straight relationships for a younger audience 

  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Nooo, AKPosts: 1,781Member

    I don't like hearing "I'd rather just form a relationship with someone in reality."

    Firstly... SW:TOR, like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, is a role playing experience. It involves killing, sexing, living and loving.  There seems to be such an insecurity behind saying... "I'd rather form relationships in reality." when you're talking about a video game.

    Its a story... enjoy all aspects of role playing a character's fictional story....

    "I'd rather murder people with a lightsaber in reality."

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    Why do we even need sex relations in a video game, that is what real life is for.  Honestly some of these folks need to go get a real life and find a real partner to have relations with.

    I really don't want my game play junked up with sexual relations,  I been around other games where chat channels was filled with that vile filth of folks wanting to cyber.

    So I would just rather they don't have any type of sexual content at all, that would fix this.

  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Nooo, AKPosts: 1,781Member

    Originally posted by Kwintpod





    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA





    Star Wars is for children, they decided that Gay and Lesbian relationships aren't for children.  Thats ONE reason... there's so many possible and plausible reasons to go along with it.  For instance... they didn't want to have to write MORE script and record MORE audio for alternate homosexual story-arcs. 



     






     



    I don't see how gay or lesbian relationships would be any less suitable than straight relationships for a younger audience 


     

    I don't either.

  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Nooo, AKPosts: 1,781Member



    Originally posted by erictlewis





    Why do we even need sex relations in a video game, that is what real life is for.  Honestly some of these folks need to go get a real life and find a real partner to have relations with.

    I really don't want my game play junked up with sexual relations,  I been around other games where chat channels was filled with that vile filth of folks wanting to cyber.

    So I would just rather they don't have any type of sexual content at all, that would fix this.






     

    Why do we even need murdering people in a video game for?

    That is what real life is for.

    Seriously though... Do you honestly think that a pre-written and pre-determined story-line involving two characters developing a care for one another... relates to two human beings on an MMORPG typing out sexual erotica? You think those two things are the same thing?

    That is severely obtuse.


  • eyceleycel rolling hillz, PAPosts: 1,334Member

    There was already a post about this that got shutdown.  I wont be supporting this game either way after this if they cant support me.  Why would i buy there product if they are working against what type of person I am and making it harder for me to live.

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  • Dante1443Dante1443 San Diego, CAPosts: 23Member

    Originally posted by Kwintpod





    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA





    Star Wars is for children, they decided that Gay and Lesbian relationships aren't for children.  Thats ONE reason... there's so many possible and plausible reasons to go along with it.  For instance... they didn't want to have to write MORE script and record MORE audio for alternate homosexual story-arcs. 



     






     



    I don't see how gay or lesbian relationships would be any less suitable than straight relationships for a younger audience 


     

     

    I agree but there are just too many people stuck in the old way of thinking.  That a gay relationship is somehow more "adult" than a straight one.   But if this game is going to be around for the long haul then while they may not be present at launch maybe in a year or two people will be ready to join the rest of us in the 21st century.

  • nomssnomss albany, NYPosts: 1,468Member

    I'm fine with this. I think they went with this option because game is too big? Too much voice overs to be handled now that I think about it.

  • bansanbansan blah city, MOPosts: 367Member

    *snip*


     



    Why do we even need murdering people in a video game for?

    That is what real life is for.

    *snip*

    That is severely obtuse.

    Talk about being obtuse.  A lot of games involved doing things you won't do in real life, like picking up a sword and cutting up people, or even animals.

  • AstrumNivalAstrumNival TallinnPosts: 19Member

    Stupid Biowares got themselves into it..while they could easily avoid it..

    just by saying something like.. - Yes you could have same sex relations in swtro, because it's so democratic and tolerant..

    Unfortunally, all your companions are straight.. oh well.. that's a life..what's you gonna do..

    you can't blame people for being straight ?

  • KizzattaKizzatta Vancouver, WAPosts: 59Member

    I'm straight but not allowing same-sex relationships (let alone announcing it early) in a role playing game is a bad move. They might as well have announced: "There are no children in our game because we hate children. Jews also." Grow up EA and Bioware.

  • Short-StrawShort-Straw Berthoud, COPosts: 422Member

    Seriously, it's bad enough I have to put up with idiots who believe that curtailing freedom in the name of religion is a great idea, in RL. Now I have to put up with their crap in a damn video game?

    I guess there's a reason that I'm christian but I stopped going to church.

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  • AstrumNivalAstrumNival TallinnPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by Kizzatta

    I'm straight but not allowing same-sex relationships (let alone announcing it early) in a role playing game is a bad move. They might as well have announced: "There are no children in our game because we hate children. Jews also." Grow up EA and Bioware.

    OMG..there are no Jews in the game ??  Bioware - are nazi antisemits..Baby Jesus cries..

  • ElidienElidien Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,058Member

    Originally posted by AstrumNival

    Originally posted by Kizzatta

    I'm straight but not allowing same-sex relationships (let alone announcing it early) in a role playing game is a bad move. They might as well have announced: "There are no children in our game because we hate children. Jews also." Grow up EA and Bioware.

    OMG..there are no Jews in the game ??  Bioware - are nazi antisemits..Baby Jesus cries..

    There probably is no religion (outside of the Force which is debatable if its a religion or not) in TOR and if so, it would not be modern religions anyway.

    People will need to understand that games, even roleplaying ones, are supposed to run counter to our real lives. If not, then I would play an MMO where I teach college courses. I personally do not want sex, religion, etc...in my MMO's. I deal with it enough in the real world. We enter very dangerous waters when our games start mirroring real life TOO much. No where does it say TOR is supposed to be a cross-section of reality...hence the fantasy aspect of the game.

    And there are plenty of games out there that offer those options. I do not play GTA games because I am sick of crime and turning on the news daily and hearing about shootings, etc... I do not play the Sims because I have a hard enough time keep relationships happy with those I work with, live with and care about in life - I do not need to mirror that in a  game. I play a game to have fun and to be honest, I wish there were NO relationships in TOR period. Your companion is meant to be your comrade in arms, not your lover (at least in my opinion).

    I am sorry that Bioware did not include same sex relationships in TOR but honestly there is no history of it in the Star Wars universe. If it does upset you so badly, then speak with your wallet, do not purchase or play the game.

  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member

    You made the assumption that the companions don't have a choice. What if the companions in swtor are different than DA, or ME?

    Those companions were bisexual, and were only loyal to whomever made the first sign of commitment. 

    While the companions are just striaght, and forcing them to be any other would be against thier sexual preference.

    Isn't sexuality also about choice? So how does it make sense to have a companion that is straight and gay. It should be either, and making them bixesual, well, that's probably not the direction BW would want to go with for swtor.

    I don't really see a reason for just homophobes or religoius people to chime in as to why it should not be in. As others have states there are other reasons. 

    Here is another.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • AbdarAbdar Thunder Bay, ONPosts: 400Member Uncommon

    Just because Mass Effect had it (so I hear), doesn't mean every Bioware game needs it. How many MMO's out there don't have it? 99%? Nobody is crying about that.

    And just so people know, George Lucas makes calls of this nature, not Bioware or EA. Anyone who knows the Star Wars universe understands this.

    Beyond all that, I would love for someone to point out in any of the movies where any same sex stuff happened anyways. This whole 'controversy' is just stupid.

  • FaelanFaelan CopenhagenPosts: 826Member Uncommon

    No same sex? Ah... bummer... but it's okay... as long as I can share some intimacy with a Jawa and figure out what's underneath that robe.

    Or maybe... just maybe... it would be better to leave that whole sex thing out since the nature of the Star Wars universe opens a whole lotta more cans of worms than just homosexuality. Like... kissing your sister ;)

    I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

  • VerterdegeteVerterdegete BelgradePosts: 247Member

    This is getting really tiresome. Accept it, majority of people hate this stuff and don't want it in their game. If you want same sex relationships in SWTOR, roleplay it with someone.

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  • shinobi234shinobi234 Bronx, NYPosts: 437Member

    Originally posted by Faelan

    No same sex? Ah... bummer... but it's okay... as long as I can share some intimacy with a Jawa and figure out what's underneath that robe.

    Or maybe... just maybe... it would be better to leave that whole sex thing out since the nature of the Star Wars universe opens a whole lotta more cans of worms than just homosexuality. Like... kissing your sister ;)

    nice i hope you have very heatly kids with jawas :O

    .....

  • AlotAlot BredaPosts: 1,948Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    {mod edit}

    Fine we'll remove any content referring to sexuality from every fantasy/sci-fi game ever created.

    Or here's a better idea, screw the people who are offended.

    If a game does contain homosexuality we should instantly report it to FoxNews so that those conservatives can start whining about how immoral it is. < - - - - - Controversy like this tends to boost a game's sales.

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