Dude everyone sees the same vendor; there is no phasing in GW2. If the rabbits eats all the watermelon and the vendor cannot sale them, then no one can buy them. And if you really start freaking out about that you need help!
The point is that the world is going to be always in motion, always changing; some people actually think this is a good idea. If that is too much for you, then go find a world that is static. Because if anyone just stands in one area to make sure that nothing happens to that vendor, they are absolutely insane! The point is to just wonder around the world and see what is happening and join in on the fun not to set there in town and worry about my precious vendor that sells melons!
Here is the flip side of that arguement. You tell me there is a vendor. What does he sell that I even want to bother? Is that item so good that when that vendor is out of goods because of those damn rabbits that I can mark it up and make serious cash or do the items suck in which case I can care less and go do more priorities.
Certain things in MMO have been static for a reason and introducing supply/demand into a MMORPG can backfire. This game woul be a pretty crazy concept if it was single server.
This looks like it's going to be a problem for me, sadly. Of all the things I love about GW2 B2P is *not* one of them. Like someone posted, when people are tired of the game, they quit for a few months and come back when there's new content. I can't see myself finding the sort of guild I like in such a game. Grinding has always been the reason for people in the guilds I've been to log on. And to stay online a couple of hours a night. Yes, I'm hardcore. I love hanging out in a game. Heck, I found my wife in a mmorpg. My hope now is that the community demands that GW2 goes P2P, that's be a dream come true. A game with GW2:s mechanics but with a more traditional end game to retain people. Or maybe a freemium model, where you can pay if you want to access the more traditional endgame, whereas casual pve and all pvp would stay free. Well, every game can't be tailored for me:D
Here is the flip side of that arguement. You tell me there is a vendor. What does he sell that I even want to bother? Is that item so good that when that vendor is out of goods because of those damn rabbits that I can mark it up and make serious cash or do the items suck in which case I can care less and go do more priorities.
Certain things in MMO have been static for a reason and introducing supply/demand into a MMORPG can backfire. This game woul be a pretty crazy concept if it was single server.
We are talking about a consumable here not the most power item in the game! Who the hell cares, it is not like it is the only DE with a karma vendor attached to it. If that vendor is gone, I can go and find another vendor that has karma things for sale! I am sure out of the 1500 plus DEs in the game I will find something to spend my karma on.
This looks like it's going to be a problem for me, sadly. Of all the things I love about GW2 B2P is *not* one of them. Like someone posted, when people are tired of the game, they quit for a few months and come back when there's new content. I can't see myself finding the sort of guild I like in such a game. Grinding has always been the reason for people in the guilds I've been to log on. And to stay online a couple of hours a night. Yes, I'm hardcore. I love hanging out in a game. Heck, I found my wife in a mmorpg. My hope now is that the community demands that GW2 goes P2P, that's be a dream come true. A game with GW2:s mechanics but with a more traditional end game to retain people. Or maybe a freemium model, where you can pay if you want to access the more traditional endgame, whereas casual pve and all pvp would stay free. Well, every game can't be tailored after me:D
Dude you are over thinking this, there are tons of alliances running around in GW1 why do you not think there will be tons of solid guilds in GW2?
Also name one game where guilds have not fell apart because people have decided to move on, you are acting as if this is only a problem in buy to play games. I have been in the same alliance since I started GW1, does the population wax and wane, YES it does, but it does that in every other MMO I have ever played too.
Now if the only thing you want a MMO for is to get better and better items then no GW2 is not for you. If you like MMOs for other reasons then that, then give it a try, who knows you might forum a guild that will last for years or it might die in a month, but that is no different from any other MMO!
Fun? Challenge? Personal satistfaction? You see my friend ANet is getting rid of the carrot on the stick that all sub-based MMO's use to make sure players give them money. The endgame for PvE is NOT GEAR. There is NO progression system. Its about having fun and working together to defeat a common goal.
For many, the whole concept of an MMORPG is not to socialze and have fun, but to "beat" the game and get the best rewards. That is not the gae ANet wants to create.
You want to defeat that dragon because you will get the acheivement and maybe a title and personal glory for taking down such a hard monster. Why must there be a shiny at the end to have fun? Why must people kill this dragon over and over and over to get their whole sets of shinies? These are the questions you need to ask yourself before you expect a response from ANet.
For a guy who's name is Aion telling me beating a dragon is all about the fun makes me want to laugh. Aion has two very big dragons right this minute and noone goes near them.
How all of a sudden people just expect mmo players to not care about gear progression after close to 15 years of doing it just amazes me honestly. I'll put money on it without an incentive noone is going to touch these dynamic events. They sure as hell did not in Rift unless you wave a carrot in front of their faces.
GW2 and Rift have more in common then you guys like to admit because it is what we edumacated people like to call a "datapoint". This means you can use it as a reference point to see what works and what does not work when it comes to the word "dynamic" and just removing the carrot does not work. Counting on the kindness and courtesy of people on the internet to get something done is not happening.
You guys have hardcore pvp'rs and casual pve'rs, but trying to move in on WoW/EQ/Rift/SWToR market when it comes to raiding and comparing the two is not happening.
EDIT:
F*** it. Decided not to bother tilting at another windmill.
because you just happened to be there and started doing it without really thinking
because you want some random item from a merchant
because you are following or leading or just in a larger group of people moving through a map
because you were expolring and it just showed up
because you just can't stand the smell of those dirty centaurs in that town over there
...etcetera
this isn't about getting some super item that can only be obtained after doing an event, it is about playing a game. The combat system, and control system in general, is quitte fun to most people. The world is pretty. The sound is great. Odds are you will just want to play this game, and you will end up doing the DEs because they are there. They provide immersive feedback for players.
If you are worried about knowing what DEs are in an area, you are mkissing the point of DEs. They are there to make the world move, not for some completionist insomniac to try and find and do all of them. Anet IS going to be adding more DEs to EVERY zone periodically outside of any expansions they release so that the world can become MORE varied than it was before and to give players more incentive to go back and enjoy areas they have already been.
This game does not reward rushing through to the end, in fact it doesn't matter if you do because you can always go back and be reverse side-kicked down to a practical level so that you can actually play anywhere. This game does not have grear grind or level grind or dungeon grind or anything like that, and you areally don't need to bother doing things that you don't rreally like doing just to get better stats/gear/skills. This game has a great deal of content that is aimed at satisfying the explorer, from hidden events, to skill and trait collection, to beautiful environments. There is crafting, PvP, elite events that require more than 1 or 2 people to do, and dungeons with branching options and dynamic events built into them to make your dungeon experience interesting.
if you like this sort of thing, this game is probably for you.
Edit: comparing this game to games where all the fun comes from an addictive grind mechanic is going to be difficult. I say don't think to hard about it, and just play whatever game you feel like playing.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
After reading more posts I would say this game is not for the OP or Puremalice.
Yes, I think you're right. A real pity. I really, really like all the mechanics! I will still definitely try the game out, but now my expectation are at a more realistic level. And I think that's only a good thing. Whether or not GW2 is the right game for me, ANet will leave a mark in the mmo industry and lots of other games are going to copy their new approach to levelling and combat, I hope and think.
After reading more posts I would say this game is not for the OP or Puremalice.
Agreed. This game is really about lateral progression. Anyone who is stuck in the vertical achievement mindset will have a very tough time enjoying such a game.
There will be pleanty of endgame; but it will be running dungeons, unlocking achievements, finding new armor / weapon sets, pvping, and unlocking new skills.
There won't be any huge endgame raids that many are used to, the closest thing to this will be the giant dynamic event encounters. So, people who still enjoying the raid system that WoW, Rift, etc. has, they will probably find GW2's endgame hard to enjoy.
This looks like it's going to be a problem for me, sadly. Of all the things I love about GW2 B2P is *not* one of them. Like someone posted, when people are tired of the game, they quit for a few months and come back when there's new content. I can't see myself finding the sort of guild I like in such a game. Grinding has always been the reason for people in the guilds I've been to log on. And to stay online a couple of hours a night. Yes, I'm hardcore. I love hanging out in a game. Heck, I found my wife in a mmorpg. My hope now is that the community demands that GW2 goes P2P, that's be a dream come true. A game with GW2:s mechanics but with a more traditional end game to retain people. Or maybe a freemium model, where you can pay if you want to access the more traditional endgame, whereas casual pve and all pvp would stay free. Well, every game can't be tailored after me:D
Dude you are over thinking this, there are tons of alliances running around in GW1 why do you not think there will be tons of solid guilds in GW2?
Also name one game where guilds have not fell apart because people have decided to move on, you are acting as if this is only a problem in buy to play games. I have been in the same alliance since I started GW1, does the population wax and wane, YES it does, but it does that in every other MMO I have ever played too.
Now if the only thing you want a MMO for is to get better and better items then no GW2 is not for you. If you like MMOs for other reasons then that, then give it a try, who knows you might forum a guild that will last for years or it might die in a month, but that is no different from any other MMO!
I'm not sure I'm overthinking it, I think. I like competition in pve. I like being in small tight knit guilds. I like exactly the things that are present in GW2:s pvp. Difference is, I'd like them for pve. Small groups of people fighting together over a long period of time, getting better and better and receiving bragging rights for it (rated pve, if you will). In raid focused games the bragging rights is generally gear. Now, I'm not all that intrested in gear. I lead a raiding guild in WoW, and I assure you, all I care for is us getting new kills and making sure there's a nice ambiance in the guild. I'm not demanding GW2 have the same pve endgame as it does pvp. But it'd make me a happy camper, and I think it'd make the game even better.
After reading more posts I would say this game is not for the OP or Puremalice.
Agreed. This game is really about lateral progression. Anyone who is stuck in the vertical achievement mindset will have a very tough time enjoying such a game.
There will be pleanty of endgame; but it will be running dungeons, unlocking achievements, finding new armor / weapon sets, pvping, and unlocking new skills.
There won't be any huge endgame raids that many are used to, the closest thing to this will be the giant dynamic event encounters. So, people who still enjoying the raid system that WoW, Rift, etc. has, they will probably find GW2's endgame hard to enjoy.
I don't care what exact end game you have, as long as you can be competetive in a group doing it. GW2:s pvp has this, is it outrageous to ask them to have it in pve as well? (yes, probably, because that'd mean they'd have to add new content very often, which I don't think quite works in a F2P game)
edit: DLC competetive group pve content would do the trick!
I think the OP mentioned it correctly in his post. Seems like GW2 is more of a game for casual and hardcore pvpers and casual pvers. Not sure if they have a good focus for hardcore pvers.
I think the OP mentioned it correctly in his post. Seems like GW2 is more of a game for casual and hardcore pvpers and casual pvers. Not sure if they have a good focus for hardcore pvers.
the problem here is that "hardcore PvE" seems to mean little more than raids and dungeon/gear grind.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
I think the OP mentioned it correctly in his post. Seems like GW2 is more of a game for casual and hardcore pvpers and casual pvers. Not sure if they have a good focus for hardcore pvers.
You say that but I am a hardcore PvE person. It's just a matter of what you like to get out of your PvE. If you're looking to gain an unfair advantage over people with your raid sets this game won't have that. It will have cool looking gear to show off you just don't need it to progress.
I think the OP mentioned it correctly in his post. Seems like GW2 is more of a game for casual and hardcore pvpers and casual pvers. Not sure if they have a good focus for hardcore pvers.
the problem here is that "hardcore PvE" seems to mean little more than raids and dungeon/gear grind.
You have a good point. Maybe hardcore pvers will find something different in GW2's DE that redefines the meaning of hardcore PVE...
I think the OP mentioned it correctly in his post. Seems like GW2 is more of a game for casual and hardcore pvpers and casual pvers. Not sure if they have a good focus for hardcore pvers.
the problem here is that "hardcore PvE" seems to mean little more than raids and dungeon/gear grind.
I would hate to see GW2 turn into a niche MMO because they did not take pve raiding seriously. This is pretty damn possible considering what I am hearing. There are more gerbils in the world then some of you believe it seems.
Fun? Challenge? Personal satistfaction? You see my friend ANet is getting rid of the carrot on the stick that all sub-based MMO's use to make sure players give them money. The endgame for PvE is NOT GEAR. There is NO progression system. Its about having fun and working together to defeat a common goal.
For many, the whole concept of an MMORPG is not to socialze and have fun, but to "beat" the game and get the best rewards. That is not the gae ANet wants to create.
You want to defeat that dragon because you will get the acheivement and maybe a title and personal glory for taking down such a hard monster. Why must there be a shiny at the end to have fun? Why must people kill this dragon over and over and over to get their whole sets of shinies? These are the questions you need to ask yourself before you expect a response from ANet.
For a guy who's name is Aion telling me beating a dragon is all about the fun makes me want to laugh. Aion has two very big dragons right this minute and noone goes near them.
How all of a sudden people just expect mmo players to not care about gear progression after close to 15 years of doing it just amazes me honestly. I'll put money on it without an incentive noone is going to touch these dynamic events. They sure as hell did not in Rift unless you wave a carrot in front of their faces.
GW2 and Rift have more in common then you guys like to admit because it is what we edumacated people like to call a "datapoint". This means you can use it as a reference point to see what works and what does not work when it comes to the word "dynamic" and just removing the carrot does not work. Counting on the kindness and courtesy of people on the internet to get something done is not happening.
You guys have hardcore pvp'rs and casual pve'rs, but trying to move in on WoW/EQ/Rift/SWToR market when it comes to raiding and comparing the two is not happening.
EDIT:
F*** it. Decided not to bother tilting at another windmill.
It gets tiresome, doesn't it, especially when they obviously don't bother to do any real research on their own viewing in game video gameplay footage and reading dev blogs and reading what people have to say that have PLAYED the game at various conventions. It's as if they just decided to think one way and don't care what information might invalidate what they're thinking....they're going to think it anyway. /shrug Whatever. If someone can prove to me that the things we already know of GW2 are FICTION, rather than fact we've seen with our own eyes....fine. Now THAT....that I might listen to. But stupid baseless arguments, no.
Trying to communicate with some people, however, is like talking to rocks....a waste of your time and energy. Period.
I think the OP mentioned it correctly in his post. Seems like GW2 is more of a game for casual and hardcore pvpers and casual pvers. Not sure if they have a good focus for hardcore pvers.
the problem here is that "hardcore PvE" seems to mean little more than raids and dungeon/gear grind.
I would hate to see GW2 turn into a niche MMO because they did not take pve raiding seriously. This is pretty damn possible considering what I am hearing. There are more gerbils in the world then some of you believe it seems.
I am a gerbil and proud of it!
I disagree that GW2 would have to go the route of raiding as the primary means to progress and compete in pve. But I do think I lot of players would like some kind of content that challanges them and lets them progress over time. And all this in a group play context. I love the idea of DEs as levelling up, but much like in Rift, I don't think they make for very good endgame content. I do however think that this is a non issue for ANet. They're not worried about player retention. Take me for example, I would love to play GW2 day and night, being in a hardcore pve guild working towards a common goal. This won't be in the game for me, thus I'll probably fool around in the game for a couple of weeks and then take a break til the next expansion come. I then promptly buy and continue playing again. They wouldn't get any more money out of me if I were online 24/7 trying to compete in pve content (which is expensive to produce), so why should they cater to the likes of me? But as I said earlier, DLC endgame content for raiding inclined players might work as a middle ground. And since ANet says they listen to the community, this might well come to be.
I think the OP mentioned it correctly in his post. Seems like GW2 is more of a game for casual and hardcore pvpers and casual pvers. Not sure if they have a good focus for hardcore pvers.
the problem here is that "hardcore PvE" seems to mean little more than raids and dungeon/gear grind.
I would hate to see GW2 turn into a niche MMO because they did not take pve raiding seriously. This is pretty damn possible considering what I am hearing. There are more gerbils in the world then some of you believe it seems.
I am a gerbil and proud of it!
I disagree that GW2 would have to go the route of raiding as the primary means to progress and compete in pve. But I do think I lot of players would like some kind of content that challanges them and lets them progress over time. And all this in a group play context. I love the idea of DEs as levelling up, but much like in Rift, I don't think they make for very good endgame content. I do however think that this is a non issue for ANet. They're not worried about player retention. Take me for example, I would love to play GW2 day and night, being in a hardcore pve guild working towards a common goal. This won't be in the game for me, thus I'll probably fool around in the game for a couple of weeks and then take a break til the next expansion come. I then promptly buy and continue playing again. They wouldn't get any more money out of me if I were online 24/7 trying to compete in pve content (which is expensive to produce), so why should they cater to the likes of me? But as I said earlier, DLC endgame content for raiding inclined players might work as a middle ground. And since ANet says they listen to the community, this might well come to be.
The common goals as a team are there just not in the form of the gear grind to progress you are looking for.
I think the OP mentioned it correctly in his post. Seems like GW2 is more of a game for casual and hardcore pvpers and casual pvers. Not sure if they have a good focus for hardcore pvers.
the problem here is that "hardcore PvE" seems to mean little more than raids and dungeon/gear grind.
I would hate to see GW2 turn into a niche MMO because they did not take pve raiding seriously. This is pretty damn possible considering what I am hearing. There are more gerbils in the world then some of you believe it seems.
I am a gerbil and proud of it!
lol I doubt that catering to all the other styles of gampley except hardcore PVE would be considered niche.
I think the OP mentioned it correctly in his post. Seems like GW2 is more of a game for casual and hardcore pvpers and casual pvers. Not sure if they have a good focus for hardcore pvers.
the problem here is that "hardcore PvE" seems to mean little more than raids and dungeon/gear grind.
I would hate to see GW2 turn into a niche MMO because they did not take pve raiding seriously. This is pretty damn possible considering what I am hearing. There are more gerbils in the world then some of you believe it seems.
I am a gerbil and proud of it!
lol I doubt that catering to all the other styles of gampley except hardcore PVE would be considered niche.
Gotta stop calling them harcore PvErs as well. I would say the few supermerchant style players I have met over the years are more hardcore PvE than gear raiders.
I've been devouring everything related to GW2 these last few months and I've been repeatedly positively surprised by the design choices presented. I love the DE system (since I vehemently dislike quest based levelling). I love the WvWvW concept, it's truly spot on. I love how dungeons have a story mode and a exploration mode. I love how combat is more action based and focused on positioning and fast tactical decisions rather on a dull rotation that can be perfected fighting a target dummy.
However, I've grown more uncertain lately. Will there be a pve endgame in GW2? I know there won't be raids, but will there be any way of slowly continue progression in the game after you've hit 80? They've stated there's no grinding and since there's no monthly fee I guess we can't exactly expect content updates. Or am I wrong here? Granted, I really like pvp. Both casual and hardcore. But I also *need* a pve endgame. Goals to fight toward and camraderie within a tight knit guild, doing challenging things together. Will GW2 offer me this?
To me it feels like GW2 caters toward the casual *and* hardcore PvP:ers, but only the casual PvE:er. I am at the moment a casual PvP:er and a hardcore PvE:er (though that's been reversed before, but I get too stressed out doing arenas in wow at a high level nowadays).
I know Arenanet seems to only release info about features when they're implemented and working, so maybe there's something going on behind the scenes that we don't know of. But I'm asking you, oh knowledgable community, is GW2 the game for me after all?
Svarcanum
The PvE end game for Guild Wars 2 will, for the time being, include...
-1500 Dynamic Events: Due to level scaling, you can go back and play all of these dynamic events if you find some that you really enjoy. These aren't just forms of level progression. They were designed with storytelling, and lore in mind, and you most assuredly won't do all of them by the time you reach level 80.
-Dungeons: The story-mode dungeons are more-or-less casual and can be completed by a PUG of at least competent players. However, the explorable modes of these dungeons will require that sense of comraderie and tight knit organization you're looking for. This part of dungeons were designed with hard-core PvE'ers in mind who want challenging content that requires coordination and player skill to succeed in. Since there are about 3 explorable versions of a dungeon, that's a lot of content. Lots of armor sets and weapon skins will be available through Dungeons.
This part is mere speculation based on a significantly smaller portion of official information for Guild Wars 2, and instead, based predominantly on features from the original Guild Wars.
-Achievements: This was the dominant end-game in the first Guild Wars (in the form of titles), and will likely extend far beyond the achievement systems of most popular MMOG's as a form of prestige among your fellow Tyrians.
-Prestige: Since armor and weapon damage are confirmed to have a maximum value much like the original Guild Wars, it can be presumed that a lot of the focus for weapons and gear will be on prestige and rarity, such as expensive gear and cool looking and difficult to obtain weapons. This is where optional grind comes into play, for those want to see rewards for their efforts.
Other...
-Activites: Designed with genuine fun in mind, all the capital cities will offer activies for players of any level. These will offer rewards in the form of aesthetic changes to your character that can only be obtained exclusively from that activity.
This is incorrect. They have every intention to release expansions for players to buy as additional content. Arena Net's philosophy is that if they're releasing quality products then players will want to buy it, and that's how they plan on supporting GW2 for years to come. It should be noted that Arena Net does not plan to release stand-alone campaigns like the original Guild Wars.
But I do think I lot of players would like some kind of content that challanges them and lets them progress over time. And all this in a group play context.
They do have this, just not the raid to get gear and then move on to raid to get gear format. GW2 dungeons have explorer mode which is design as a challenging encounter for well setup PVE groups. In the FanPress day ArenaNet held only one group completed one wing of a dungeon (it took them hours to finish it), and all of them said it was hard as heck (and told ANet not to change it because the challenge was fun). So as long as ANet does not change the explorer mode dungeons everyone that wants challenging PVE will be taken care of, as long as you are not doing it expecting uber gear! That is the only thing this game is missing from traditional MMOs, it does not have a vertical gear progression. In fact if it does not change I think from reading the interviews about the explorer mode dungeons, it will have the same thrill as downing Ony for the first time in WoW after launch.
If you want challenging PVE you got explorer mode dungeons.
If you want some group PVE you can pug you got story mode dungeons.
If you want content to do while you exploring and leveling up you got DEs.
If you want unbalanced all out PVP you got WvWvW.
If you want organized PVP you got structured PVP.
If you want gear that is more powerful from raiding or PVP than other gear, well then go play RIFT, WoW, or any other MMO
that has come out in the last 7 years, GW2 does not have that. We have cool armor in our dungeons and the people that love ANet want it to stay that way. We do not need ever game in MMOs to be loot based; we already have a million that does that, we do not need one more.
Comments
Here is the flip side of that arguement. You tell me there is a vendor. What does he sell that I even want to bother? Is that item so good that when that vendor is out of goods because of those damn rabbits that I can mark it up and make serious cash or do the items suck in which case I can care less and go do more priorities.
Certain things in MMO have been static for a reason and introducing supply/demand into a MMORPG can backfire. This game woul be a pretty crazy concept if it was single server.
This looks like it's going to be a problem for me, sadly. Of all the things I love about GW2 B2P is *not* one of them. Like someone posted, when people are tired of the game, they quit for a few months and come back when there's new content. I can't see myself finding the sort of guild I like in such a game. Grinding has always been the reason for people in the guilds I've been to log on. And to stay online a couple of hours a night. Yes, I'm hardcore. I love hanging out in a game. Heck, I found my wife in a mmorpg. My hope now is that the community demands that GW2 goes P2P, that's be a dream come true. A game with GW2:s mechanics but with a more traditional end game to retain people. Or maybe a freemium model, where you can pay if you want to access the more traditional endgame, whereas casual pve and all pvp would stay free. Well, every game can't be tailored for me:D
We are talking about a consumable here not the most power item in the game! Who the hell cares, it is not like it is the only DE with a karma vendor attached to it. If that vendor is gone, I can go and find another vendor that has karma things for sale! I am sure out of the 1500 plus DEs in the game I will find something to spend my karma on.
Dude you are over thinking this, there are tons of alliances running around in GW1 why do you not think there will be tons of solid guilds in GW2?
Also name one game where guilds have not fell apart because people have decided to move on, you are acting as if this is only a problem in buy to play games. I have been in the same alliance since I started GW1, does the population wax and wane, YES it does, but it does that in every other MMO I have ever played too.
Now if the only thing you want a MMO for is to get better and better items then no GW2 is not for you. If you like MMOs for other reasons then that, then give it a try, who knows you might forum a guild that will last for years or it might die in a month, but that is no different from any other MMO!
EDIT:
F*** it. Decided not to bother tilting at another windmill.
Motivations to do dynamic events:
because you want to
because you just happened to be there and started doing it without really thinking
because you want some random item from a merchant
because you are following or leading or just in a larger group of people moving through a map
because you were expolring and it just showed up
because you just can't stand the smell of those dirty centaurs in that town over there
...etcetera
this isn't about getting some super item that can only be obtained after doing an event, it is about playing a game. The combat system, and control system in general, is quitte fun to most people. The world is pretty. The sound is great. Odds are you will just want to play this game, and you will end up doing the DEs because they are there. They provide immersive feedback for players.
If you are worried about knowing what DEs are in an area, you are mkissing the point of DEs. They are there to make the world move, not for some completionist insomniac to try and find and do all of them. Anet IS going to be adding more DEs to EVERY zone periodically outside of any expansions they release so that the world can become MORE varied than it was before and to give players more incentive to go back and enjoy areas they have already been.
This game does not reward rushing through to the end, in fact it doesn't matter if you do because you can always go back and be reverse side-kicked down to a practical level so that you can actually play anywhere. This game does not have grear grind or level grind or dungeon grind or anything like that, and you areally don't need to bother doing things that you don't rreally like doing just to get better stats/gear/skills. This game has a great deal of content that is aimed at satisfying the explorer, from hidden events, to skill and trait collection, to beautiful environments. There is crafting, PvP, elite events that require more than 1 or 2 people to do, and dungeons with branching options and dynamic events built into them to make your dungeon experience interesting.
if you like this sort of thing, this game is probably for you.
Edit: comparing this game to games where all the fun comes from an addictive grind mechanic is going to be difficult. I say don't think to hard about it, and just play whatever game you feel like playing.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
After reading more posts I would say this game is not for the OP or Puremalice.
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Yes, I think you're right. A real pity. I really, really like all the mechanics! I will still definitely try the game out, but now my expectation are at a more realistic level. And I think that's only a good thing. Whether or not GW2 is the right game for me, ANet will leave a mark in the mmo industry and lots of other games are going to copy their new approach to levelling and combat, I hope and think.
Agreed. This game is really about lateral progression. Anyone who is stuck in the vertical achievement mindset will have a very tough time enjoying such a game.
There will be pleanty of endgame; but it will be running dungeons, unlocking achievements, finding new armor / weapon sets, pvping, and unlocking new skills.
There won't be any huge endgame raids that many are used to, the closest thing to this will be the giant dynamic event encounters. So, people who still enjoying the raid system that WoW, Rift, etc. has, they will probably find GW2's endgame hard to enjoy.
I'm not sure I'm overthinking it, I think. I like competition in pve. I like being in small tight knit guilds. I like exactly the things that are present in GW2:s pvp. Difference is, I'd like them for pve. Small groups of people fighting together over a long period of time, getting better and better and receiving bragging rights for it (rated pve, if you will). In raid focused games the bragging rights is generally gear. Now, I'm not all that intrested in gear. I lead a raiding guild in WoW, and I assure you, all I care for is us getting new kills and making sure there's a nice ambiance in the guild. I'm not demanding GW2 have the same pve endgame as it does pvp. But it'd make me a happy camper, and I think it'd make the game even better.
I don't care what exact end game you have, as long as you can be competetive in a group doing it. GW2:s pvp has this, is it outrageous to ask them to have it in pve as well? (yes, probably, because that'd mean they'd have to add new content very often, which I don't think quite works in a F2P game)
edit: DLC competetive group pve content would do the trick!
I think the OP mentioned it correctly in his post. Seems like GW2 is more of a game for casual and hardcore pvpers and casual pvers. Not sure if they have a good focus for hardcore pvers.
the problem here is that "hardcore PvE" seems to mean little more than raids and dungeon/gear grind.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
You say that but I am a hardcore PvE person. It's just a matter of what you like to get out of your PvE. If you're looking to gain an unfair advantage over people with your raid sets this game won't have that. It will have cool looking gear to show off you just don't need it to progress.
My theme song.
You have a good point. Maybe hardcore pvers will find something different in GW2's DE that redefines the meaning of hardcore PVE...
I would hate to see GW2 turn into a niche MMO because they did not take pve raiding seriously. This is pretty damn possible considering what I am hearing. There are more gerbils in the world then some of you believe it seems.
I am a gerbil and proud of it!
It gets tiresome, doesn't it, especially when they obviously don't bother to do any real research on their own viewing in game video gameplay footage and reading dev blogs and reading what people have to say that have PLAYED the game at various conventions. It's as if they just decided to think one way and don't care what information might invalidate what they're thinking....they're going to think it anyway. /shrug Whatever. If someone can prove to me that the things we already know of GW2 are FICTION, rather than fact we've seen with our own eyes....fine. Now THAT....that I might listen to. But stupid baseless arguments, no.
Trying to communicate with some people, however, is like talking to rocks....a waste of your time and energy. Period.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I disagree that GW2 would have to go the route of raiding as the primary means to progress and compete in pve. But I do think I lot of players would like some kind of content that challanges them and lets them progress over time. And all this in a group play context. I love the idea of DEs as levelling up, but much like in Rift, I don't think they make for very good endgame content. I do however think that this is a non issue for ANet. They're not worried about player retention. Take me for example, I would love to play GW2 day and night, being in a hardcore pve guild working towards a common goal. This won't be in the game for me, thus I'll probably fool around in the game for a couple of weeks and then take a break til the next expansion come. I then promptly buy and continue playing again. They wouldn't get any more money out of me if I were online 24/7 trying to compete in pve content (which is expensive to produce), so why should they cater to the likes of me? But as I said earlier, DLC endgame content for raiding inclined players might work as a middle ground. And since ANet says they listen to the community, this might well come to be.
The common goals as a team are there just not in the form of the gear grind to progress you are looking for.
My theme song.
lol I doubt that catering to all the other styles of gampley except hardcore PVE would be considered niche.
Gotta stop calling them harcore PvErs as well. I would say the few supermerchant style players I have met over the years are more hardcore PvE than gear raiders.
My theme song.
Guild Wars 2 is a game for everyone.
The PvE end game for Guild Wars 2 will, for the time being, include...
-1500 Dynamic Events: Due to level scaling, you can go back and play all of these dynamic events if you find some that you really enjoy. These aren't just forms of level progression. They were designed with storytelling, and lore in mind, and you most assuredly won't do all of them by the time you reach level 80.
-Dungeons: The story-mode dungeons are more-or-less casual and can be completed by a PUG of at least competent players. However, the explorable modes of these dungeons will require that sense of comraderie and tight knit organization you're looking for. This part of dungeons were designed with hard-core PvE'ers in mind who want challenging content that requires coordination and player skill to succeed in. Since there are about 3 explorable versions of a dungeon, that's a lot of content. Lots of armor sets and weapon skins will be available through Dungeons.
This part is mere speculation based on a significantly smaller portion of official information for Guild Wars 2, and instead, based predominantly on features from the original Guild Wars.
-Achievements: This was the dominant end-game in the first Guild Wars (in the form of titles), and will likely extend far beyond the achievement systems of most popular MMOG's as a form of prestige among your fellow Tyrians.
-Prestige: Since armor and weapon damage are confirmed to have a maximum value much like the original Guild Wars, it can be presumed that a lot of the focus for weapons and gear will be on prestige and rarity, such as expensive gear and cool looking and difficult to obtain weapons. This is where optional grind comes into play, for those want to see rewards for their efforts.
Other...
-Activites: Designed with genuine fun in mind, all the capital cities will offer activies for players of any level. These will offer rewards in the form of aesthetic changes to your character that can only be obtained exclusively from that activity.
This is incorrect. They have every intention to release expansions for players to buy as additional content. Arena Net's philosophy is that if they're releasing quality products then players will want to buy it, and that's how they plan on supporting GW2 for years to come. It should be noted that Arena Net does not plan to release stand-alone campaigns like the original Guild Wars.
They do have this, just not the raid to get gear and then move on to raid to get gear format. GW2 dungeons have explorer mode which is design as a challenging encounter for well setup PVE groups. In the FanPress day ArenaNet held only one group completed one wing of a dungeon (it took them hours to finish it), and all of them said it was hard as heck (and told ANet not to change it because the challenge was fun). So as long as ANet does not change the explorer mode dungeons everyone that wants challenging PVE will be taken care of, as long as you are not doing it expecting uber gear! That is the only thing this game is missing from traditional MMOs, it does not have a vertical gear progression. In fact if it does not change I think from reading the interviews about the explorer mode dungeons, it will have the same thrill as downing Ony for the first time in WoW after launch.
If you want challenging PVE you got explorer mode dungeons.
If you want some group PVE you can pug you got story mode dungeons.
If you want content to do while you exploring and leveling up you got DEs.
If you want unbalanced all out PVP you got WvWvW.
If you want organized PVP you got structured PVP.
If you want gear that is more powerful from raiding or PVP than other gear, well then go play RIFT, WoW, or any other MMO
that has come out in the last 7 years, GW2 does not have that. We have cool armor in our dungeons and the people that love ANet want it to stay that way. We do not need ever game in MMOs to be loot based; we already have a million that does that, we do not need one more.