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Pay 2 win becoming legitimate? Have we really lost our way this much?
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Not so much "greed" as corruption. But then if the politicians were not for sale, one couldn't buy them... I doubt Blizzard will lose that many sales on D3 over this policy. I certainly plan to play the game.
I don't care if Blizzard loses much or does not lose much by me not playing Diablo 3 because of RCAH.
I just won't buy it and I will do it for myself I don't really care if my decision will hurt Blizzard or not.
RL gettting into game = no fun to play for me. (I don't care that I don't have to use it , it is still game breaking for me and I don't feel like having to defend my opinion and so I won't).
bye bye Blizzard o/
How about we are given a checkbox to click which allows us to ignore any and all players who P2W; we can't see their chat, we can't group with them, we don't know they exist. I would be very happy with that.
No, Diablo3's RMAH system is suppose to be a solution for fatcat Corporate Execs getting their fatcat Corporate Jets.
*sniff sniff* I smell WOW-clone. Can you smell it?
That's not the point Kemosabe. The point of playing these games is to escape reality, like drinking alcohol, Pay2Win jerks you back into reality like a cup of coffee; BuzzKill.
What reality? that the guy spends more/ is richer? Is that what you're trying to escape when you play games, your lack of wealth or digust towards excessive spending?
If it is, well that's your choice. Personally i don't play games for that. I play games because in them i can do things i cannot in RL , and with little to no consequences on top of that.
Don't get me wrong, i'm against P2Win as i believe skills should matter more than the size of your wallet but i think the reason you mentioned is a bit far fetched or even desperate.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
how long do you think it will take them before they add RMT AH to WoW?
I play to escape reality, reality includes things like chatting with you about crap like this. (hint: you can't win argument, so don't try)
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ not long $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Not sure if your comparison of mmorpg's to alcohol actually works why? Well there are high end liquors as well should drinkers waste time bitching and moaning about Cristal because they can't afford it?
You're being a buzzkill again, letting real life intrude into fantasy.
Don't be a buzzkill.
I think what he's trying to say is that it jerks one back to reality because you have to play a minigame with the store
I am with him on this. I don't play a dungeon crawler to go shopping with my real money for stuff I could potentially find ingame in my spare time. I know people engaged in a blackmarket version of the AH in D2 so some people obviously do like this. I also recognize that I can still play the game the way I want to. It all depends on how much the RMT AH is actually felt and present in the game.
If it seems that everything points to RMT in order to boost income for ActiBlizz, I will really hate D3. If it really is just a parallel thing that isn't really mentioned anywhere other than perhaps a discreet little button somewhere in the UI of the lobby, then it doesn't bug me. If there are huge red buttons everywhere trying to encourage me to buy, buy, buy, that is completely immersion breaking then I won't be getting D3. I would also hope for an option to block players who engage in the buy-to-win AH from being able to join my games.
I'm already seriously considering not getting it knowing now that there is no offline or LAN versions. Why get D3 if I can get a full-blown MMORPG like GW2 or EQ2 extended if I don't want to pay a sub?
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
That Pay2Win big red button reminds me of my younger brother in his mid 20's now who's never held a job for more than 1 month in his entire life, he smokes pot all day and plays video games. He spent about $100 of daddy's money for SWG gold.
That Pay2Win big red button reminds me of my nephew who visited me this summer. He's in middle school and his mother won't take his computer away even though it is destroying his health (he's getting fat and no exercize doing nothing but playing games).
That's the reality I want to escape, I don't want to acknowledge there is a real person behind the screenname. I don't want to deal with their real life, I don't even want to know it exists.
So you play games to forget about your socio-economic situation. Alrighty than, do you also moan every time a game is released that you cannot play on max settings because your rig isn't top notch?
I mean not everyone can afford high end PC's so making games which require such PC's to be graphically fully used ruin it as well i guess.
Now don't get me wrong, if you moan about anything in the gaming industry that disadvantages people based on their will and ability to spend that's fine by me. It's your opinion that it ruins your fun, can't argue with that. But do you honestly think that even a tiny minority think like that? I've heard many reasons why P2W sucks but that ain't one of em.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
It seems to me you're missing something really important here : games are meant to be entertainment. What ruins a game for you may make that game really enjoyable for others just like what entertains you may bore others to death.
I think that game companies are realizing that to maximize profits they need to reach increasingly larger audiences given the level of competition out there and one way to accomplish this is by providing more options in their games.
I'm pretty sure that cash shops selling stuff that gives bonuses or advantages make people with limited playing time or deep wallets very happy, and that's a win/win situation for them and the game companies. Not everyone is willing to spend weeks/months to get the best stuff in games and companies are realizing this, and instead of just letting them go, they are providing additional options to keep them in their games while creating new sources of revenue.
I really don't see anything wrong with this picture. More options in my opinion will always be better. It's the implementation of cash shops that sometimes anger people more than it should. Games where you have to buy powerful stuff that is otherwise unattainable through normal gameplay (true p2win scheme imo) or games where you may buy powerful stuff right from the beginning giving you "unfair advantage" over other people (imo this is just like coming late to a game and getting crushed by vets).
In the end, it's very easy to decide if a game is fun or not and proceed accordingly.
Gamers have been speaking up with their wallets I suspect, and that's why we see f2p and cash shop on the rise.
Oooh this thread is alive again, fun
.
Anyway, I am one of the older players with limited time and a (comparatively) deep wallet but I HATE the idea of buying in game items/exp for money. I mean, yeah sure it may seem innocent on the surface. Here's a game with a grind, some people don't want to grind but want to get high level therefore a demand exists, it's in the game developers control to sell them what they want, why not do that? Simple right? Win/win right?
While this may seem simple on the surface, I urge you to step back and look at the big picture. First, ask yourself the question:
Why is the demand to skip game content and achieve high level items/exp sufficient enough to make players spend real money?
I think the answer to this is simply that the game content is most often tedious, long, boring, repetitive, in other words, a GRIND. If the grind didn't exist, there wouldn't be much demand to skip it, and the game dev would have trouble selling items/exp. Therefore, if a game developer wants to make money selling items/exp it is IN THEIR INTEREST to make the game a grind.
This is SO bad. It's basically a terrible conflict of interest. It would be like if God create the universe to bilk money out of its inhabitants. Can you imagine how horrible that would be? Well that's where MMORPGs will be headed if this trend keeps up. Do we really want game design to stop being about making a good game that people will want to buy and start being about making a game that will maximize profits from each market segment that plays it by charging them money for in game items?
P2W or Pay to skip encourages bad game design. Because, after all, if the game was designed well to begin with, everyone would actually want to experience it.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
The whole god analogy doesn't make sense why not look at the issue like cable tv do we need premium channels? how about ppv, why can't people just be happy with the standard basic package of cable?
Praytell how does the God analogy not make sense? An MMORPG developer literally creates a world and defines all of the rules of how that world operates. They then have absolute power over anything in that world after the game is released. They are, quite literally, God when it comes to their game.
Here's the difference between Cable TV selling you PPV and buying in game items in an MMORPG.
With cable TV, you are buying ACCESS to the show/movie when you get PPV. You are not affecting the CONTENT of the show/movie by spending money. This is very much like buying the box for a video game.
With P2W you have already bought or otherwise been provided access to the game, and you are paying money to adjust the content of the game. As I said before, this is bad because it encourages the developer to make the game content in such a way that you will want to pay money to avoid/skip it.
If you want to look at how P2W would work in the world of TVs and movies, it would be like if you're watching a movie and the hero begins climbing a mountain and then a prompt comes up and says:
"The next scene consists of the hero climbing the mountain for 50 minutes straight. It is incredibly boring and is a waste of your time. If you want to skip this scene, please insert $20 now."
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
The problem is the games themselves play easy into the pay to win. A lot of the time the journey to get the sword of uberness is the same to get the staff of uberness and the shoes of uberness. Eventually the journey is more of a chore that you just want to be over so you can do something with your set of uberness. I actually hate that model worse than people spending money to get something.
It's why I buy gold in some games but never in others, if the game has some dumb farming crap to get to what I want to do I will skip it if I can.
Right now MMOs for the most part are about getting stronger not achieving something. it's what raiding is it's what the gear grind is.
A game like GW1 is something that sticks out as a game I would not buy gold in, the game is about achieving stuff after you hit the cap, there is no power struggle it is just what you can accomplish.
The fun in too many MMOs is about getting stronger, and if it's all about the end then who cares for the journey.
It's why the dumbing down of the genre works so well, it's just a time sink to get people to pay money long enough before they are satisfied and quit.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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Because there is no concensus on why god created the universe, hell some people don't even believe in god to say that "god" created the universe. Generally I would think an alalogy worked best when it is a universal truth not just something that the poster feels is law.
And umm how does buying premium cable or ppv not effect the content doesn't it increase the content you have access to that is an effect like it or not.
As far as comparing p2w with tv you are wrong again in my opinion because the developer of a game just like the producer of a tv show is not in a position to determine for you the watcher or gamer what you find acceptable so when they tell you the scene is boring and you can pay more to skip it it's still up to the user to decide whether they want to skip it or not isn't the sane thing at all.
Really? You're going here?
Look, it doesn't matter what your religious beliefs are. Everyone is smart enough to understand the CONCEPT of a creator, whether you believe in one or not. Also, whether the REAL world was created by something is irrelevant...we KNOW that an MMORPG is created by someone...there's no debate there lol.
Also, the content in the cable example is the movie or show you are watching and no, buying PPV does not alter them at all. Yes, it gives you ACCESS to more content, but the actual content remains unchanged.
It's like selling a dungeon with a microtransaction, you are just paying to get access to more content, I have no issues with that.
Selling the privilege to skip content though? Yeah That's kind of backwards.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Deleted
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
The examples you use keep reinforcing that you feel people are paying extra to bypass content... and that somehow affects the next guy's use of that content. As long as you only look at purchasing extras and premium content solely in the context of how you would use it, you will continue to miss the point of every counter argument presented to you. Even worse, your argument doesn't seem to even make sense. Instead of some far fetched tale of paying to fastforward a movie, let's use a realistic example that's been around for decades:
You pay monthly for cable TV.
Next month some cool new content will be available.
This month someone else pays $20 to see it before you on Pay Per View.
This bothers you, and you really haven't presented any explanation why other than the fact that you have concocted an imaginary race to the end of the content and someone else just paid to get there faster. It doesn't matter that they aren't in a race, they don't know you and couldn't care less about your imaginary race. The scary part is that even if no one bought the movie on pay per view, just knowing that the guy next to you might have paid 20 bucks and seen the movie before you is something that you have expressed would bother you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That's a fine analogy for a theme-park style PvE-based game. The instant you have a game where players compete with each other, the situation starts getting a great deal muddier.
Give me liberty or give me lasers