Everything that the OP asked for is there. The game won't have everything fully available at release, but guess what, it isn't $200, it's free with a small monthly subscription fee (once it launches).
If you want to say that games like UO can succede, it's time to put your money where your typing fingers are.
{mod edit}
Agree or disagree with him but when you have to resort to attacking someone due to spelling mistakes... well, it just makes you look petty.
As for the topic at hand:
I think some of us old MMO vets are suffering from a case of nostalgia induced rose-colored-glasses syndrome. UO was so succesful because it was released during the early days of the MMO era. Back then, MMO games were not mainstram and success was measured on a whole other scale. Now, the industry and the player base have changed. Studios will not risk $$$ on a project that may or may not be a mainstram success. The result, we the players that want games with open FFA PvP, deep crafting/player driven economies and more of a challenge, are left with indie games of dubious quality.
Sad days indeed.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Unfortunately your accurate description of the situation will soon by tainted by one of the asshats in this thread quoting you and saying "You're wrong" without actually providing any evidence to the contrary (Likely because they never played either of the games they are comparing as spiritual successors to UO.)
Thanks for the attempt though. It was valiant.
Actually, you come off as the biggest asshat in this thread. Have you ever considered that your subjective opinion does not equal fact? Acting like a total ass does not give your subjective opinion any weight, either.
OnT: A "new UO" would be great. Unfortunately, most sandbox titles released today are made by indie devs severely lacking both funds and experience. Dawntide, for example, looks great on paper but is nowhere near release ready - and it's scheduled for an october release.
ArcheAge seems to be the only AAA title icoming out n the foreseeable future that features real sandbox elements, even though it's also heavily slanted towards the "themepark" audience.
Actually, you come off as the biggest asshat in this thread. Have you ever considered that your subjective opinion does not equal fact? Acting like a total ass does not give your subjective opinion any weight, either.
OnT: A "new UO" would be great. Unfortunately, most sandbox titles released today are made by indie devs severely lacking both funds and experience. Dawntide, for example, looks great on paper but is nowhere near release ready - and it's scheduled for an october release.
ArcheAge seems to be the only AAA title icoming out n the foreseeable future that features real sandbox elements, even though it's also heavily slanted towards the "themepark" audience.
I need to check out this ArcheAge thing I keep hearing so much about.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Unfortunately your accurate description of the situation will soon by tainted by one of the asshats in this thread quoting you and saying "You're wrong" without actually providing any evidence to the contrary (Likely because they never played either of the games they are comparing as spiritual successors to UO.)
Thanks for the attempt though. It was valiant.
Actually, you come off as the biggest asshat in this thread. Have you ever considered that your subjective opinion does not equal fact? Acting like a total ass does not give your subjective opinion any weight, either.
OnT: A "new UO" would be great. Unfortunately, most sandbox titles released today are made by indie devs severely lacking both funds and experience. Dawntide, for example, looks great on paper but is nowhere near release ready - and it's scheduled for an october release.
ArcheAge seems to be the only AAA title icoming out n the foreseeable future that features real sandbox elements, even though it's also heavily slanted towards the "themepark" audience.
Some of the other posters are right the game can't survive if it is flooded with reds. Psychopathic killers do not make a very stable society. If people want the the ffa pvp there should still be some criminal set up like UO. Free to do what you want but there are consequences for your actions.
UO was together with Meridian 59 the father of MMORPGs, an amazing game.
But we don't need a new UO, UO is already made and we need something rather different for the future.
You see what made UO and M59 so great was the fact that they didn't copy anyone else. Both games looked on single player games and P&P RPGs and molded that into something new and amazing.
If UO just would have been a polished up version of another game you would probably not remember it.
Someone needs to start fresh, not rehash the same old games again and again. Both Darkfall and Mortal online tried to make a new UO and it didn't work, part of that because Origin did have more competent people of course but still...
CCP is right now mixing P&P and MMOs in their upcomming game "World of darkness online", we need stuff like that instead of remakes of old games.
WoD gonna be microtransaction based from the start. Not going to play it personally, especially considering it's Plex system and MT prices in Eve. Really don't like their policy on this kind of things so I will not even bother
Darkfall& MO as new UO? Lol. Darkfall only has pvp nothing else in this game is worthwhile. Bad mechanics(no skill cap! just come on...), awful graphics, exploits and bugs ,etc
MO like one person on other forum said "I've been running naked in forest. And it works. They have to add everything else though...". First person perspective which imho is awful and many players don't like. Same as Darkfall , bad rules , bad mechanics & bugs.
I agree that we don't need simple copies from before , but also saying "everything old is bad" is also not smart.
I want an isometric mmo with UO atmosphere/hardcorness and newer smooth gameplay with better enchanced graphics (something like a good looking RTS game looks nowdays only in a mmo world)
"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted. Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world." Hans Margolius
I loved UO with all my heart. It's currently fairly dead, as I went back for a free trial. The graphics really are very dated. All that said, other developing companies know not to try and recreate it.
For those who played way back when: Remember Trammel. The ORIGINAL NGE..... Dear god the hate....
1) Reds screamed because they lost a ton of their prey. Prey decided Trammel was much nicer, a PvE ruleset. Yep, the majority of players went there. Even hard core PvPers did so they could buy goods in peace before moonstoning back.
2) I screamed because they nerfed the fel shard. If they had left it alone, I'd have stayed on the fel side. However, they turned it into an ugly wasteland and deleted the guards. So I went and slapped a tower down in the swamps on trammel side, and learned to love trammel- even though everything I did eventually ended up being classed an exploit/bug/unintended blah blah. So I did it the way they wanted and still had fun. (they told us to stop hunting artists for their shoes in trammel, we had to go to fel side, a year after I started making large gem quantity rings and bracelets, they decided they had to actually use up that many gems, etc)
3) Players complained about being able to mark and recall, with full runebooks being sold to farm spots were making for an empty world for exploring. Running down roads and not seeing another soul (blah blah blah)... (Cause the PKs were on the other facet, duh- so everyone was PvEing)
4)Itemization- people got used to their newbied katanas of vanquishing, and stopped buying GM gear. Why buy it if you aren't going to lose it to a PK ? You only have to worry about going linkdead. On the plus side, I sold a ton of artists' shoes in various shades.... and arrows:P
5) People couldn't play pure crafters until Trammel, since you needed to be able to gate and hide. I was our anti-pk guild's favorite goat ( I go mining and sure enough, within 15 minutes a PK would pop:D) After Trammel, I dropped those and went pure 7X crafter, like most. You had to join huge malls, it was the death of the hut in the woods. Why not go to a mall, you didn't have to fear dying, instead of having a rune to 3 different single vendor arrow vendors that we could camp waiting on a PK to show up:D
6) Faction wars was just a deathrobed thieves with poisoned newbie daggers zerging from the healing hut to the bank, fun to watch but MEH. Sometimes you'd see a group of GM fully-equipped warriors rip into each other, but those tended to be planned raids.
" ...even though everything I did eventually ended up being classed an exploit/bug/unintended blah blah. "
A master in the art of 'creative use of game mechanics'?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I loved UO with all my heart. It's currently fairly dead, as I went back for a free trial. The graphics really are very dated. All that said, other developing companies know not to try and recreate it.
For those who played way back when: Remember Trammel. The ORIGINAL NGE..... Dear god the hate....
1) Reds screamed because they lost a ton of their prey. Prey decided Trammel was much nicer, a PvE ruleset. Yep, the majority of players went there. Even hard core PvPers did so they could buy goods in peace before moonstoning back.
2) I screamed because they nerfed the fel shard. If they had left it alone, I'd have stayed on the fel side. However, they turned it into an ugly wasteland and deleted the guards. So I went and slapped a tower down in the swamps on trammel side, and learned to love trammel- even though everything I did eventually ended up being classed an exploit/bug/unintended blah blah. So I did it the way they wanted and still had fun. (they told us to stop hunting artists for their shoes in trammel, we had to go to fel side, a year after I started making large gem quantity rings and bracelets, they decided they had to actually use up that many gems, etc)
3) Players complained about being able to mark and recall, with full runebooks being sold to farm spots were making for an empty world for exploring. Running down roads and not seeing another soul (blah blah blah)... (Cause the PKs were on the other facet, duh- so everyone was PvEing)
4)Itemization- people got used to their newbied katanas of vanquishing, and stopped buying GM gear. Why buy it if you aren't going to lose it to a PK ? You only have to worry about going linkdead. On the plus side, I sold a ton of artists' shoes in various shades.... and arrows:P
5) People couldn't play pure crafters until Trammel, since you needed to be able to gate and hide. I was our anti-pk guild's favorite goat ( I go mining and sure enough, within 15 minutes a PK would pop:D) After Trammel, I dropped those and went pure 7X crafter, like most. You had to join huge malls, it was the death of the hut in the woods. Why not go to a mall, you didn't have to fear dying, instead of having a rune to 3 different single vendor arrow vendors that we could camp waiting on a PK to show up:D
6) Faction wars was just a deathrobed thieves with poisoned newbie daggers zerging from the healing hut to the bank, fun to watch but MEH. Sometimes you'd see a group of GM fully-equipped warriors rip into each other, but those tended to be planned raids.
Yepp. Trammel was when I left. I had a couple of blues and a red mage. It just wasn't the same. It turned into a PvE sandbox with a mirror wasteland. Such a shame.
I suppose the ability to lose your gear at anytime is one of the larger determining factors of a good player based economy.
Multi Faction Wars (Guild Wars That meant something) - Check
SERIOUSLY! It's got a following. There's no denying nostalgia will sell plenty of boxes. EA now owns the name.... If anyone has the money to sink into a game it's them. DO IT!!!
Please.... Update the graphics a bit... You don't even have to make it 3rd person. The overview type of game still works for people... Look at Diablo III! It will sell millions of copies. Easy.
Please for the love of anything holy. Do it. Stop digging up other ideas for games that COULD be a good MMO. Ultima Online WAS a good MMO. It's got the lore to build on top of. Like, what, 8 single player games before UO came out? That's up there with Final Fantasy...
What the hell is up with people... Notch (Minecraft) has made millions off a simple concept. Let people have the freedom to do what they want. Build things. Adventure. We don't need something stringing us along. GIVE US SOMETHING. I have my wallet out right now waiting for the next game that can acheive this...
Loot tables!??!?!?!! WTF are those? Your purple armor of Azeroth helped slay the Dragon of One Million Respawns? Congrats? How many times did you wipe? Only 2x? Nice! What did you lose?! 5% off your total health of 1,000,000 gazillion hit points?! Oh noes, better pick up your gravestone to be back at 100%! And you finally got the "Bracers of 900 Hours of Raiding" Lucky drop dude. Only a .5% chance of them dropping on the second Wednesday following a full moon.
Give me a GM Katana and some decent plate and lets see what we can do.
/rant
Totally with you......the problem is all in the economics of the industry now.
It costs hundreds of millions of dollars to put together a nice polished game. So far, no publisher is willing to risk that kind of money on a MMORPG that appeals to a completely different crowd than what WOW has.
UNTIL.....XL Games. It's a Korean outfit thats creating a game called Arche Age. It is the second comming of UO, with CryEngine 3 engine and Lineage 2 styled models.
THe game was developed with a Western audience in mind, but hasn't found a publisher yet. I will probably hit the US late 2012 or early 2013.
Don't count too heavily on ArcheAge being the second coming. I know it looks like it will have everything we so desperately loved about UO, but it has a LONG way to go to truly prove itself. The possibilities are there, but if no publisher even picks them up we will never see the light of day on that potential gem. It has a few other things that could work against it as well, but I digress.
UO was my first. I had never even heard the term MMORPG before playing it though I understood the concept, and I had actually bought it as a second choice alternative (I was looking hopelessly for a Phantasy Star Online for PC... didn't exist) It completely ruined me, too. It's like losing your virginity to [sex goddess of your choice]; no other can ever compare. I admit part of it is nostalgia and that rose-colored glass we always look through when we look back, but at its core UO was the definitive sandbox and - to me - the ultimate example of what an MMORPG should be.
Several games have come along that use some of the popular features that UO brought to the table, but no one has pulled off what Garriott (God bless him) and his team managed to create. EVE has the open world, ruthless PVP (to a degree... its not too unlike Felucca vs. Trammel with the security zones), player-driven economy and probably a couple other features, but it lacks the tools UO provided to create lore, story, player events, and community. On a very personal and opinionated note, EVE's universe simply lacks the the charm of "swords and sorcery" Britannia as well. Housing has been done in several MMOs since UO, but none have done it justice at all; one of the few good things AoS brought us was the housing tool, which allowed you to completely design your home/workshop/lair from the ground up, literally. But even the pre-designed houses prior to this provided enough variation, accessibility and decorative possibilities to make it feel completely your own.
What has happened to player-hired NPC vendors, apparently replaced with the auction house? [Insert Note: I had a brainstorm idea in the middle of this post, and I am starting a General Discussion thread regarding player vendors immediately following this post about it] Heck, even F2P titles allow you to set up shop as your own character at least; most triple-A titles stick to the path of least risk and reward with this idea and don't move beyond the auctioneer.
Yes, ArcheAge looks like it "might" be the spiritual successor that we've longed for over the past decade or so, but so did Darkfall, and Mortal Online. Don't push your chips in just yet, but don't fold out of the game, either. Watch and Wait; that's the new game we're all playing, isn't it? Maybe something will come along to pull this genre out of the stinking rut it's in and get us back to our roots. Someone, do the sandbox justice; give this little niche corner of the market what we've been Watching and Waiting for.
-One of the two Alexanders from AOL Legends shard, 3x GM when that actually meant something
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards. -Lois McMaster Bujold
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just. -Abraham Lincoln
Don't count too heavily on ArcheAge being the second coming. I know it looks like it will have everything we so desperately loved about UO, but it has a LONG way to go to truly prove itself. The possibilities are there, but if no publisher even picks them up we will never see the light of day on that potential gem. It has a few other things that could work against it as well, but I digress.
Well yea, its still in Beta. For the record, I don't think AA will be a full blown sandbox, in the way Darkfall is...where you could wonder out of town, get clubbed on the head and lose all your crap 10 min after you log in. I think it will have some thempark like training wheels to get people aclimated and then as you venture out it operates more like a sandbox.
Most importantly....it will have the following features, which have missing....
Player Housing
Gathering
Meaningful Non-Combat Professions
Ship Building / Combat
Open Combat System
In a nut shell....there will be more opprotunites in the game to interact with other folks, and will allow for more ways to progress in the game than hack n' slashing.
As for the publisher....who knows. It may take a "wait & see" for Western Publishers to feel more comfortable about spending money on a game that ISN'T going after the WOW crowd. With that said, all the videos I've seen of this game look amazing, and UNLIKE MO & Darkfall......this game seems to be polished, runs on the latest technology and doesn't deviate too much from the original formula (IE, Darkfall & MO going First Person View Only)
UO was my first. I had never even heard the term MMORPG before playing it though I understood the concept, and I had actually bought it as a second choice alternative (I was looking hopelessly for a Phantasy Star Online for PC... didn't exist) It completely ruined me, too. It's like losing your virginity to [sex goddess of your choice]; no other can ever compare. I admit part of it is nostalgia and that rose-colored glass we always look through when we look back, but at its core UO was the definitive sandbox and - to me - the ultimate example of what an MMORPG should be.
I'm with you....and my first experience in MMORPG gaming wasn't much unlike yours. It started with a friend recommending this old 2D game that looked right out of a SNES console....it was UO. I quickly got over the graphics as the sheer idea that I was playing, and competing, against other real people sucked me in.
To be fair, UO enjoyed a market force that no other MMORPG enjoys today.....and thats lack of competition. If you didn't like the way something was done in UO, you either adapted or quit. Since the sum of the game was greater than any of its faults....many people put up with things like a Free For All PvP system, Full Loot Rules, and a hard knocks open world environment.
My personal feeling is that the community turned out better because it challenged people to adapt....but you'll have a hard time convincing a new MMORPG player (that cut their teeth on WOW) about the merits of a full loot system or a free for all combat system.
Several games have come along that use some of the popular features that UO brought to the table, but no one has pulled off what Garriott (God bless him) and his team managed to create. EVE has the open world, ruthless PVP (to a degree... its not too unlike Felucca vs. Trammel with the security zones), player-driven economy and probably a couple other features, but it lacks the tools UO provided to create lore, story, player events, and community. On a very personal and opinionated note, EVE's universe simply lacks the the charm of "swords and sorcery" Britannia as well. Housing has been done in several MMOs since UO, but none have done it justice at all; one of the few good things AoS brought us was the housing tool, which allowed you to completely design your home/workshop/lair from the ground up, literally. But even the pre-designed houses prior to this provided enough variation, accessibility and decorative possibilities to make it feel completely your own.
Again, we are in agreement....in regard to the EVE thing. I can create a whole post about the learning curve EVE has........but put simply (as you did), it just lacks that sort of charm you get with the bard music in the back ground and the whole fantasy setting. There is just something cold and empty feeling flying around open space with little target boxes everywhere.
I love the direction EVE went in....and I think it captures that "Virtual World" feeling that modern MMORPGs are missing. I just think we could improve upon that idea by working in some more familiar elements...swords & boards, magic and fantasy.
What has happened to player-hired NPC vendors, apparently replaced with the auction house? [Insert Note: I had a brainstorm idea in the middle of this post, and I am starting a General Discussion thread regarding player vendors immediately following this post about it] Heck, even F2P titles allow you to set up shop as your own character at least; most triple-A titles stick to the path of least risk and reward with this idea and don't move beyond the auctioneer.
Another lost treasure of old school MMORPGs. NPC vendors were a great excuse to take a break from working skills to go adventuring. You could only do so much exploring in UO.....but Star Wars Galaxies was a nice example of how player generated NPC vendors could get people expanding out in space....looking for those great deals.
The player generated stores don't achieve the same result I think. Lineage 2 did this and it created a situation where you either had to pay for another account to just sell crap off of (because you can't ACTUALLY play your character while your trying to sell crap), or they were forced to not play their toon because they really needed to move that piece of equipment. It might make the game look more populated than it really is....but doesn't really do much else for the player.
Yes, ArcheAge looks like it "might" be the spiritual successor that we've longed for over the past decade or so, but so did Darkfall, and Mortal Online. Don't push your chips in just yet, but don't fold out of the game, either. Watch and Wait; that's the new game we're all playing, isn't it? Maybe something will come along to pull this genre out of the stinking rut it's in and get us back to our roots. Someone, do the sandbox justice; give this little niche corner of the market what we've been Watching and Waiting for.
You've been following AA for over a decade? Jeez.....I thought it just popped up in the last 3 or so years.
Darkfall.....on the other hand......is another story all together, and exemplafies the challenges developers today have going against the grain of the themepark / story driven model. IMO Darkfall tried to bite off more than they could finance....and the end result was 10+ years in development.
Both Darkfall & MO had grand ideas, tried to match the polish and horsepower the Tripple A titles have made gold standard.....and ultimately failed to deliver a robust enough system to achieve all that it went out for.
Darkfall had to throttle its box sales because their servers couldn't handle the demand. (And we aren't talking about a 11 million sub demand like WOW) If that doesn't scream money problems, I don't know what does.
XL Games, on the other hand, are fitting this thing with Tripple A polish. Again, the jury is still obviously out......but I just wanted to point out that XL Games is avoiding some of the pitfalls that DA & MO fell in.
-One of the two Alexanders from AOL Legends shard, 3x GM when that actually meant something
Yes, ArcheAge looks like it "might" be the spiritual successor that we've longed for over the past decade or so, but so did Darkfall, and Mortal Online. Don't push your chips in just yet, but don't fold out of the game, either. Watch and Wait; that's the new game we're all playing, isn't it? Maybe something will come along to pull this genre out of the stinking rut it's in and get us back to our roots. Someone, do the sandbox justice; give this little niche corner of the market what we've been Watching and Waiting for.
....oh and I wanted to add one other thing.
It's entirely possible that the MMORPG industry doesn't feel that it's in a rut. Traditional MMORPG gamers (like you and I) feel that it is. However, when games like WOW make up 65% of the genere marketshare (not counting all the other casual MMORPG gamers in Aion, Rift, Warhammer, LOTRO, etc.).......your customers are looking for less "Virtual Worlds" and more "Themeparks".
I see companies like EA / Bioware going in the opposite direction of "Virtual Worlds" and are putting MORE rails on their game exerience. I also understand companies like EA / Bioware pay marketers a LOT of money to figure out what the public wants. We may be out numbered (as traditional MMORPG enthusiasts), and may be why we haven't seen a whole lot of people put stock into our type of game.
-One of the two Alexanders from AOL Legends shard, 3x GM when that actually meant something
Amazingly enough, Rajcaj, we seem to agree on all points. I cannot say that's ever happened to me before on these forums, hehe.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean I have been following AA for ten years; in fact, I've only known about it since it posted on this site a few months ago. I meant that we have been waiting that long for a game to come along that has the same charm, community and immersion that UO gave us.
I agree with your final point as well. MMORPGs, in a way, have actually just found their footing in the overall gaming market in the past few years. As much as I hate to admit it, it's likely because of the success of these themepark games such as WoW and the vast majority of F2P titles. I do think that, given enough of a chance, a solidly produced sandbox could still change the landscape a bit with what our current offerings are. There is very little variation in the common themepark model between games, and I believe our hobby could use a little diversity, particularly in the form of more sandbox games from which to choose. I'm not expecting one of these games to rake in 6 million subscribers; if we could get to the point where UO was at it's peak (circa 200k subs), I would call that a smashing success.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards. -Lois McMaster Bujold
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just. -Abraham Lincoln
Both Darkfall and Mortal Online developers have said in multiple interviews that their primary goal was recreating the Ultima Online experience.
I'm not going to try and argue what your (or anyone's) opinion of the game is, when the developer states that they are "making the spiritual successor to Ultima Online" I'd consider it to be a UO clone.
So are you saying that you believe everything that you hear?
You can't see marketting tact in their statements? You don't think the are using the UO name and popularity as fuel to sell some copies? Hah.
Darkfall was not designed even remotely similar to UO other than the fact that you could kill anyone. Mortal Online is actually pretty close, except that it was made horribly in my opinion. Neither game is a true representation of UO and the sandbox genre.
No, the problem is that modern attempts at UO (MO/Darkfall) are DEVELOPED by the reds.
Ok, allow me to ask this then:
Why do you guys want a new UO if it isn't for the full PvP and open loot.
Every time that I see a thread asking for devs to develop a new UO it's because they're tired of PvP with no consequences in other games. DF and MO came out with open PvP and full loot, and guess what, that's exactly the kind of players that they got.
You want a game that's an updated version of UO? Go play PotBS.
Full PvP? Check.
PvP that matters? Check.
Crafting? Check.
Crafting that matters? Check.
Player Driven Economy? Check.
Not a gear grind? Check.
Two main reasons that I want UO. I'm tired of games that are only about killing the next mob and getting the next epic loot. Also, the game is player driven. That comes with it's ups and downs, but it's what truely makes an experience that cannot be duplicated by hand holding.
I wouldn't be opposed to a trammel style UO, but they need to make crafting powerful. Item decay, dropping your belongings when getting killed by monsters, mob train protections so people do not exploit the previous feature, limited travel and death that actually means something. I personally wouldn't mind PK'ing, as long as it was incredibly hard to do...even harder than old school UO was. Make it possible, but unlikely that most people will even try due to the massive drawbacks that come with it.
I haven't read a single post, but this is what I found and is probably holding back releasing new games based on the Ultima license:
Ultima X was developed without participation of the original creator Richard Garriott and he no longer owns the rights to the series. However, he still owns the rights to several of the game characters so it is impossible for either him or Electronic Arts to produce a new Ultima title without getting permission from each other.
It didn't work because THEY DIDN'T MAKE A NEW UO. They made a hollowed out shell of what UO was, cherry picking whatever systems they liked and getting rid of those they didn't.
Why is this so complicated for you people?
No. It didn't work because they didn't have any original thoughts and just stole stuff from other games. UO did nothing like that and therefor you can't remake UO.
Easy enough?
It's nice to throw around theories and claim them as facts isn't it? Makes arguments easier.
Yes, lets recreate a game full of inconviences for a few thousand people that used to enjoy UO. If I were an investor, I'd invest in this great idea!
(NO)
What were those inconveiences? I love how people bash an idea when (I'm assuming) they probably never tried it themselves. Obviously the game was popular and remains to be to this day. Over 200,000 subscriptions when the market was 100x smaller and still drawing a profit 14 years after it's launch.
Weren't they going to do this at one point? I think it's around the time WoW came out, or just after. It looked pretty cool, kinda like WoW/Warhammer if I recall correctly.
I think if they put out a new version with all of the same aspects, it would be a hit. At least I iknow I would play.
Yes, lets recreate a game full of inconviences for a few thousand people that used to enjoy UO. If I were an investor, I'd invest in this great idea!
(NO)
What were those inconveiences? I love how people bash an idea when (I'm assuming) they probably never tried it themselves. Obviously the game was popular and remains to be to this day. Over 200,000 subscriptions when the market was 100x smaller and still drawing a profit 14 years after it's launch.
But only a few people like it right?
Apparently so. Otherwise there would have been another UO or something similar. Would be nice to have sequel but i hardly doubt it is ever going to happen. Investors are not going to put any money into project unless they are sure they will get their money back and make profit. And considering EA owns the game, no chance in hell for new UO.
I would think that the smash-hit success of WoW changed the direction of the market that any developer or investor would try to match that success, or at least carve out a profitable little corner of it.
There once was a potential sequel in the works (see the forum for Ultima X: Odyssey), but for various reasons it went away. It is for many of those same reasons that we have not seen anyone pick this up. I, for one, am not looking for a direct sequel or successor in the Ultima series but for a game that takes the spirit of what UO was and bring it to today's market.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards. -Lois McMaster Bujold
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just. -Abraham Lincoln
I, for one, am not looking for a direct sequel or successor in the Ultima series but for a game that takes the spirit of what UO was and bring it to today's market.
I just want a game that makes me feel like i did in UO. The constant fear, never knowing what some one would want when they apear on your screen. Did he need some black pearl to recal home and just ran out? is he just checking to see if you might have some regs on you so you are worth killing? you just never knew, and it made the game interesting.
I once remember running a guy down from Brit to Yew while red, only to give him some gold and a few items since he apeared to be new (saw him casting low lvl spells). The guy just kept running away scared hehe. But even some one flagged as a murderer could be a decent person, and even some one blue with not a single kill count could be some bad word im not allowed to type.
You always had to be on your toes, and could never assume you knew what was going to happen next.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
Comments
Agree or disagree with him but when you have to resort to attacking someone due to spelling mistakes... well, it just makes you look petty.
As for the topic at hand:
I think some of us old MMO vets are suffering from a case of nostalgia induced rose-colored-glasses syndrome. UO was so succesful because it was released during the early days of the MMO era. Back then, MMO games were not mainstram and success was measured on a whole other scale. Now, the industry and the player base have changed. Studios will not risk $$$ on a project that may or may not be a mainstram success. The result, we the players that want games with open FFA PvP, deep crafting/player driven economies and more of a challenge, are left with indie games of dubious quality.
Sad days indeed.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Actually, you come off as the biggest asshat in this thread. Have you ever considered that your subjective opinion does not equal fact? Acting like a total ass does not give your subjective opinion any weight, either.
OnT: A "new UO" would be great. Unfortunately, most sandbox titles released today are made by indie devs severely lacking both funds and experience. Dawntide, for example, looks great on paper but is nowhere near release ready - and it's scheduled for an october release.
ArcheAge seems to be the only AAA title icoming out n the foreseeable future that features real sandbox elements, even though it's also heavily slanted towards the "themepark" audience.
I need to check out this ArcheAge thing I keep hearing so much about.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
No, I hadn't considered that.
Still haven't. Go figure.
Also, subjective opinion is redundant.
Some of the other posters are right the game can't survive if it is flooded with reds. Psychopathic killers do not make a very stable society. If people want the the ffa pvp there should still be some criminal set up like UO. Free to do what you want but there are consequences for your actions.
WoD gonna be microtransaction based from the start. Not going to play it personally, especially considering it's Plex system and MT prices in Eve. Really don't like their policy on this kind of things so I will not even bother
Darkfall& MO as new UO? Lol. Darkfall only has pvp nothing else in this game is worthwhile. Bad mechanics(no skill cap! just come on...), awful graphics, exploits and bugs ,etc
MO like one person on other forum said "I've been running naked in forest. And it works. They have to add everything else though...". First person perspective which imho is awful and many players don't like. Same as Darkfall , bad rules , bad mechanics & bugs.
I agree that we don't need simple copies from before , but also saying "everything old is bad" is also not smart.
Signed,
I want an isometric mmo with UO atmosphere/hardcorness and newer smooth gameplay with better enchanced graphics (something like a good looking RTS game looks nowdays only in a mmo world)
"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
Hans Margolius
I loved UO with all my heart. It's currently fairly dead, as I went back for a free trial. The graphics really are very dated. All that said, other developing companies know not to try and recreate it.
For those who played way back when: Remember Trammel. The ORIGINAL NGE..... Dear god the hate....
1) Reds screamed because they lost a ton of their prey. Prey decided Trammel was much nicer, a PvE ruleset. Yep, the majority of players went there. Even hard core PvPers did so they could buy goods in peace before moonstoning back.
2) I screamed because they nerfed the fel shard. If they had left it alone, I'd have stayed on the fel side. However, they turned it into an ugly wasteland and deleted the guards. So I went and slapped a tower down in the swamps on trammel side, and learned to love trammel- even though everything I did eventually ended up being classed an exploit/bug/unintended blah blah. So I did it the way they wanted and still had fun. (they told us to stop hunting artists for their shoes in trammel, we had to go to fel side, a year after I started making large gem quantity rings and bracelets, they decided they had to actually use up that many gems, etc)
3) Players complained about being able to mark and recall, with full runebooks being sold to farm spots were making for an empty world for exploring. Running down roads and not seeing another soul (blah blah blah)... (Cause the PKs were on the other facet, duh- so everyone was PvEing)
4)Itemization- people got used to their newbied katanas of vanquishing, and stopped buying GM gear. Why buy it if you aren't going to lose it to a PK ? You only have to worry about going linkdead. On the plus side, I sold a ton of artists' shoes in various shades.... and arrows:P
5) People couldn't play pure crafters until Trammel, since you needed to be able to gate and hide. I was our anti-pk guild's favorite goat ( I go mining and sure enough, within 15 minutes a PK would pop:D) After Trammel, I dropped those and went pure 7X crafter, like most. You had to join huge malls, it was the death of the hut in the woods. Why not go to a mall, you didn't have to fear dying, instead of having a rune to 3 different single vendor arrow vendors that we could camp waiting on a PK to show up:D
6) Faction wars was just a deathrobed thieves with poisoned newbie daggers zerging from the healing hut to the bank, fun to watch but MEH. Sometimes you'd see a group of GM fully-equipped warriors rip into each other, but those tended to be planned raids.
+ set in the wonderful world of Britannia
/signed
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
A master in the art of 'creative use of game mechanics'?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yepp. Trammel was when I left. I had a couple of blues and a red mage. It just wasn't the same. It turned into a PvE sandbox with a mirror wasteland. Such a shame.
I suppose the ability to lose your gear at anytime is one of the larger determining factors of a good player based economy.
Totally with you......the problem is all in the economics of the industry now.
It costs hundreds of millions of dollars to put together a nice polished game. So far, no publisher is willing to risk that kind of money on a MMORPG that appeals to a completely different crowd than what WOW has.
UNTIL.....XL Games. It's a Korean outfit thats creating a game called Arche Age. It is the second comming of UO, with CryEngine 3 engine and Lineage 2 styled models.
THe game was developed with a Western audience in mind, but hasn't found a publisher yet. I will probably hit the US late 2012 or early 2013.
Don't count too heavily on ArcheAge being the second coming. I know it looks like it will have everything we so desperately loved about UO, but it has a LONG way to go to truly prove itself. The possibilities are there, but if no publisher even picks them up we will never see the light of day on that potential gem. It has a few other things that could work against it as well, but I digress.
UO was my first. I had never even heard the term MMORPG before playing it though I understood the concept, and I had actually bought it as a second choice alternative (I was looking hopelessly for a Phantasy Star Online for PC... didn't exist) It completely ruined me, too. It's like losing your virginity to [sex goddess of your choice]; no other can ever compare. I admit part of it is nostalgia and that rose-colored glass we always look through when we look back, but at its core UO was the definitive sandbox and - to me - the ultimate example of what an MMORPG should be.
Several games have come along that use some of the popular features that UO brought to the table, but no one has pulled off what Garriott (God bless him) and his team managed to create. EVE has the open world, ruthless PVP (to a degree... its not too unlike Felucca vs. Trammel with the security zones), player-driven economy and probably a couple other features, but it lacks the tools UO provided to create lore, story, player events, and community. On a very personal and opinionated note, EVE's universe simply lacks the the charm of "swords and sorcery" Britannia as well. Housing has been done in several MMOs since UO, but none have done it justice at all; one of the few good things AoS brought us was the housing tool, which allowed you to completely design your home/workshop/lair from the ground up, literally. But even the pre-designed houses prior to this provided enough variation, accessibility and decorative possibilities to make it feel completely your own.
What has happened to player-hired NPC vendors, apparently replaced with the auction house? [Insert Note: I had a brainstorm idea in the middle of this post, and I am starting a General Discussion thread regarding player vendors immediately following this post about it] Heck, even F2P titles allow you to set up shop as your own character at least; most triple-A titles stick to the path of least risk and reward with this idea and don't move beyond the auctioneer.
Yes, ArcheAge looks like it "might" be the spiritual successor that we've longed for over the past decade or so, but so did Darkfall, and Mortal Online. Don't push your chips in just yet, but don't fold out of the game, either. Watch and Wait; that's the new game we're all playing, isn't it? Maybe something will come along to pull this genre out of the stinking rut it's in and get us back to our roots. Someone, do the sandbox justice; give this little niche corner of the market what we've been Watching and Waiting for.
-One of the two Alexanders from AOL Legends shard, 3x GM when that actually meant something
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards. -Lois McMaster Bujold
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just. -Abraham Lincoln
Amazingly enough, Rajcaj, we seem to agree on all points. I cannot say that's ever happened to me before on these forums, hehe.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean I have been following AA for ten years; in fact, I've only known about it since it posted on this site a few months ago. I meant that we have been waiting that long for a game to come along that has the same charm, community and immersion that UO gave us.
I agree with your final point as well. MMORPGs, in a way, have actually just found their footing in the overall gaming market in the past few years. As much as I hate to admit it, it's likely because of the success of these themepark games such as WoW and the vast majority of F2P titles. I do think that, given enough of a chance, a solidly produced sandbox could still change the landscape a bit with what our current offerings are. There is very little variation in the common themepark model between games, and I believe our hobby could use a little diversity, particularly in the form of more sandbox games from which to choose. I'm not expecting one of these games to rake in 6 million subscribers; if we could get to the point where UO was at it's peak (circa 200k subs), I would call that a smashing success.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards. -Lois McMaster Bujold
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just. -Abraham Lincoln
So are you saying that you believe everything that you hear?
You can't see marketting tact in their statements? You don't think the are using the UO name and popularity as fuel to sell some copies? Hah.
Darkfall was not designed even remotely similar to UO other than the fact that you could kill anyone. Mortal Online is actually pretty close, except that it was made horribly in my opinion. Neither game is a true representation of UO and the sandbox genre.
Two main reasons that I want UO. I'm tired of games that are only about killing the next mob and getting the next epic loot. Also, the game is player driven. That comes with it's ups and downs, but it's what truely makes an experience that cannot be duplicated by hand holding.
I wouldn't be opposed to a trammel style UO, but they need to make crafting powerful. Item decay, dropping your belongings when getting killed by monsters, mob train protections so people do not exploit the previous feature, limited travel and death that actually means something. I personally wouldn't mind PK'ing, as long as it was incredibly hard to do...even harder than old school UO was. Make it possible, but unlikely that most people will even try due to the massive drawbacks that come with it.
Also, not many people want to play pirate games.
I haven't read a single post, but this is what I found and is probably holding back releasing new games based on the Ultima license:
Ultima X was developed without participation of the original creator Richard Garriott and he no longer owns the rights to the series. However, he still owns the rights to several of the game characters so it is impossible for either him or Electronic Arts to produce a new Ultima title without getting permission from each other.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_(series)
It's nice to throw around theories and claim them as facts isn't it? Makes arguments easier.
What were those inconveiences? I love how people bash an idea when (I'm assuming) they probably never tried it themselves. Obviously the game was popular and remains to be to this day. Over 200,000 subscriptions when the market was 100x smaller and still drawing a profit 14 years after it's launch.
But only a few people like it right?
Weren't they going to do this at one point? I think it's around the time WoW came out, or just after. It looked pretty cool, kinda like WoW/Warhammer if I recall correctly.
I think if they put out a new version with all of the same aspects, it would be a hit. At least I iknow I would play.
Apparently so. Otherwise there would have been another UO or something similar. Would be nice to have sequel but i hardly doubt it is ever going to happen. Investors are not going to put any money into project unless they are sure they will get their money back and make profit. And considering EA owns the game, no chance in hell for new UO.
I would think that the smash-hit success of WoW changed the direction of the market that any developer or investor would try to match that success, or at least carve out a profitable little corner of it.
There once was a potential sequel in the works (see the forum for Ultima X: Odyssey), but for various reasons it went away. It is for many of those same reasons that we have not seen anyone pick this up. I, for one, am not looking for a direct sequel or successor in the Ultima series but for a game that takes the spirit of what UO was and bring it to today's market.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards. -Lois McMaster Bujold
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just. -Abraham Lincoln
I just want a game that makes me feel like i did in UO. The constant fear, never knowing what some one would want when they apear on your screen. Did he need some black pearl to recal home and just ran out? is he just checking to see if you might have some regs on you so you are worth killing? you just never knew, and it made the game interesting.
I once remember running a guy down from Brit to Yew while red, only to give him some gold and a few items since he apeared to be new (saw him casting low lvl spells). The guy just kept running away scared hehe. But even some one flagged as a murderer could be a decent person, and even some one blue with not a single kill count could be some bad word im not allowed to type.
You always had to be on your toes, and could never assume you knew what was going to happen next.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.