Paragraph Two is an assumption. Yes, 'gold farmers' can still farm and sell stuff, but they will be competing with people who have no overhead.
This was not my main point. I do not want to compete with gold farmers. Encouraging gold farmers to farm gear, by making their business legit, will also make obtaining that gear a trivial task. It should not be like that in my oppinion. I want a sense of accomplishment when i get a rare. That feeling i cannot obtain when i know that the real money AH is filled with that rare item and everyone can buy it for 5 bucks. I agree with you that we do not have all the data and that some gear might be bound and non-auctionable etc. which would make total sense.
Paragraph Two part two is kind of important. If you make more than a certain amount of money in the U.S. ($600) and your total income is over a certain amount, you will have to claim it on your taxes. I doubt most people will fall into that category.
Well you're lucky, in my country, you have to declare everything you "make" and pay tax for everything.
Generally I dont care how other people play the game, but when I see that I can buy something for 10$ or play the game/grind for a while to get it, it does affect me. Suddenly a real money value is added to my gaming time and my brain starts calculating and analysing whether it is worth spending 10 hours to get that item or just buy it. Personally, all of a sudden the game turns into work or business, all immersion is lost and I start thinking if I am a fool grinding 10 hours for something that is worth 10$.
My experience has been that for reasons that are not fully clear to me I immedietly lose my enthusiasm for the game and never play it again. Its happened in every single game that I played and RMT was introduced, Eve, AoC, Lotro...... IT just seems pointless after that, I might as well buy the damn thing.... after all 10$ is irrelavant in the grand scheme of things but the fun is gone and that seems a real commodity when you are in your 30s with a couple of companies under you and its all business in RL.
Generally I dont care how other people play the game, but when I see that I can buy something for 10$ or play the game/grind for a while to get it, it does affect me. Suddenly a real money value is added to my gaming time and my brain starts calculating and analysing whether it is worth spending 10 hours to get that item or just buy it. Personally, all of a sudden the game turns into work or business, all immersion is lost and I start thinking if I am a fool grinding 10 hours for something that is worth 10$.
My experience has been that for reasons that are not fully clear to me I immedietly lose my enthusiasm for the game and never play it again. Its happened in every single game that I played and RMT was introduced, Eve, AoC, Lotro...... IT just seems pointless after that, I might as well buy the damn thing.... after all 10$ is irrelavant in the grand scheme of things but the fun is gone and that seems a real commodity when you are in your 30s with a couple of companies under you and its all business in RL.
I agree with this, I make 27€/hour, I play games for the immersion, if with 10€ which doesnt even take me half an hour of work to earn I can save 10hours, then that item i bought gave me 9h30min+ of avaiable time, which just ruins what a game should be for me
This thread is hating on Blizzard because they finally decided to captilize on their property that third parties have been doing?
Herp derp herp derp derp herp. People will cry about anything.
No, it is hating on Blizzard because, instead of implementing models to reduce gold selling (and there are lots of those) and encourage the actual gaming (player advancement by playing the game), they actually encourage gold selling, making it legit, just for them to capitalize on it.
Generally I dont care how other people play the game, but when I see that I can buy something for 10$ or play the game/grind for a while to get it, it does affect me. Suddenly a real money value is added to my gaming time and my brain starts calculating and analysing whether it is worth spending 10 hours to get that item or just buy it. Personally, all of a sudden the game turns into work or business, all immersion is lost and I start thinking if I am a fool grinding 10 hours for something that is worth 10$.
My experience has been that for reasons that are not fully clear to me I immedietly lose my enthusiasm for the game and never play it again. Its happened in every single game that I played and RMT was introduced, Eve, AoC, Lotro...... IT just seems pointless after that, I might as well buy the damn thing.... after all 10$ is irrelavant in the grand scheme of things but the fun is gone and that seems a real commodity when you are in your 30s with a couple of companies under you and its all business in RL.
I agree with this, I make 27€/hour, I play games for the immersion, if with 10€ which doesnt even take me half an hour of work to earn I can save 10hours, then that item i bought gave me 9h30min+ of avaiable time, which just ruins what a game should be for me
The thing is, mmo and game design that are meant to be cash cow are all but immersive, in fact they are at the opposite of it, they just push up the hoarding aspect of their game to the maximum to push you to spend money. An immersive game world is all but an inflated collecting mechanism, they have many other concern that in fact kill this accumulative need. This is where the underlining concept of a design show off in a game, and this even if the dev hide it. Look at all the p2win model and it will be obvious, they all follow a very similar design path. Immersive games don't follow such a path at all.
If in the process of capitalizing on your property you are essentially destroying the game element of it for the users then people are right to complain. I don't believe people are arguing because they dont want publishers to make money but because they fear losing the games they love and enjoy!!!
Heck I ll give them 50$ per month so they dont ruin that game that I like for me, but unfortunately 1 by 1 they are all falling....
Originally posted by simmihi Originally posted by lizardbones
Paragraph Two is an assumption. Yes, 'gold farmers' can still farm and sell stuff, but they will be competing with people who have no overhead. This was not my main point. I do not want to compete with gold farmers. Encouraging gold farmers to farm gear, by making their business legit, will also make obtaining that gear a trivial task. It should not be like that in my oppinion. I want a sense of accomplishment when i get a rare. That feeling i cannot obtain when i know that the real money AH is filled with that rare item and everyone can buy it for 5 bucks. I agree with you that we do not have all the data and that some gear might be bound and non-auctionable etc. which would make total sense. Paragraph Two part two is kind of important. If you make more than a certain amount of money in the U.S. ($600) and your total income is over a certain amount, you will have to claim it on your taxes. I doubt most people will fall into that category. Well you're lucky, in my country, you have to declare everything you "make" and pay tax for everything.
I'm not sure how Blizzard is going to handle rare items. There is a fairly extensive crafting side to the game, so I would expect that to be a primary driver in the AH.
What I wouldn't give for taxes to be 'fair' in any country.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Generally I dont care how other people play the game, but when I see that I can buy something for 10$ or play the game/grind for a while to get it, it does affect me. Suddenly a real money value is added to my gaming time and my brain starts calculating and analysing whether it is worth spending 10 hours to get that item or just buy it. Personally, all of a sudden the game turns into work or business, all immersion is lost and I start thinking if I am a fool grinding 10 hours for something that is worth 10$.
My experience has been that for reasons that are not fully clear to me I immedietly lose my enthusiasm for the game and never play it again. Its happened in every single game that I played and RMT was introduced, Eve, AoC, Lotro...... IT just seems pointless after that, I might as well buy the damn thing.... after all 10$ is irrelavant in the grand scheme of things but the fun is gone and that seems a real commodity when you are in your 30s with a couple of companies under you and its all business in RL.
I agree with this, I make 27€/hour, I play games for the immersion, if with 10€ which doesnt even take me half an hour of work to earn I can save 10hours, then that item i bought gave me 9h30min+ of avaiable time, which just ruins what a game should be for me
The thing is, mmo and game design that are meant to be cash cow are all but immersive, in fact they are at the opposite of it, they just push up the hoarding aspect of their game to the maximum to push you to spend money. An immersive game world is all but an inflated collecting mechanism, they have many other concern that in fact kill this accumulative need. This is where the underlining concept of a design show off in a game, and this even if the dev hide it. Look at all the p2win model and it will be obvious, they all follow a very similar design path. Immersive games don't follow such a path at all.
This is where I will define my line to play or not to play.
I dont mind a sub, if said sub is justified with content updates on a regular base and good custumer service.
If the games try to get me on a loop where its either pay x amount or grind for 10hours for this item then I wont play that game. For the reasons that Pala said, it becomes a business isntead of playing the game for some immersion and escape real life problems.
Generally I dont care how other people play the game, but when I see that I can buy something for 10$ or play the game/grind for a while to get it, it does affect me. Suddenly a real money value is added to my gaming time and my brain starts calculating and analysing whether it is worth spending 10 hours to get that item or just buy it. Personally, all of a sudden the game turns into work or business, all immersion is lost and I start thinking if I am a fool grinding 10 hours for something that is worth 10$.
My experience has been that for reasons that are not fully clear to me I immedietly lose my enthusiasm for the game and never play it again. Its happened in every single game that I played and RMT was introduced, Eve, AoC, Lotro...... IT just seems pointless after that, I might as well buy the damn thing.... after all 10$ is irrelavant in the grand scheme of things but the fun is gone and that seems a real commodity when you are in your 30s with a couple of companies under you and its all business in RL.
Have you considered that maybe you really a fool for grinding that much for a virtual item? Maybe the item really is not worth anything and you are simply deceiving yourself into thinking that you are having fun?
Generally I dont care how other people play the game, but when I see that I can buy something for 10$ or play the game/grind for a while to get it, it does affect me. Suddenly a real money value is added to my gaming time and my brain starts calculating and analysing whether it is worth spending 10 hours to get that item or just buy it. Personally, all of a sudden the game turns into work or business, all immersion is lost and I start thinking if I am a fool grinding 10 hours for something that is worth 10$.
My experience has been that for reasons that are not fully clear to me I immedietly lose my enthusiasm for the game and never play it again. Its happened in every single game that I played and RMT was introduced, Eve, AoC, Lotro...... IT just seems pointless after that, I might as well buy the damn thing.... after all 10$ is irrelavant in the grand scheme of things but the fun is gone and that seems a real commodity when you are in your 30s with a couple of companies under you and its all business in RL.
Have you considered that maybe you really a fool for grinding that much for a virtual item? Maybe the item really is not worth anything and you are simply deceiving yourself into thinking that you are having fun?
I didnt really needed to change my car, I could probably cover 1million more Km with it without major problems, but I still did because I wanted a new one that made me happy.
Hell, if we gonna go on your post no1 would ever play an MMORPG
This thread is hating on Blizzard because they finally decided to captilize on their property that third parties have been doing?
Herp derp herp derp derp herp. People will cry about anything.
No, it is hating on Blizzard because, instead of implementing models to reduce gold selling (and there are lots of those) and encourage the actual gaming (player advancement by playing the game), they actually encourage gold selling, making it legit, just for them to capitalize on it.
And this is wrong because.....?!?!?!?!?!?!?????!?!?!?!?!??!?!
Read my post again, you're hating exactly on what I just said. They capitilize on their property, you guys get mad.
Diablo 3 will still sell millions, you can't stop it. Just like how the whole QQ about Battle.net 2.0 didn't stop SC2 from going ape shit. There's NOTHING you can do...but cry.
I bet 99% of this thread will end up buying D3 actually.
I have no interest in playing F2P games based on this model. I prefer the simplicity of a monthly subsciption, with all content available to the subscribers within the game.
And that is exactly what the recent hybrid models offer. You can either pay subscription and have the same access to the game as before. Mostly with some added bonus points to spend in the game shop.
The hybrid model of Turbine is the one I think is the best, as you can get all items ingame, even turbine points. It is the players choice if they want the fast easy way wich costs money or the harder way wich cost time. But if you got the time you can play the game entirely free without spending 1 cent. Of course Turbine makes it hard to gain those points ingame, if it was to easy they wouldn't gain enough income to support their games further.
I don't mind if more games adopt that hybrid model Turbine is using, as long as you can get all game impacting items through investing time ingame as well and not only through the ingamestore. Vanity items are excluded as they are only fluff and shouldn't impact the gameplay.
Next we got the D3 real money auction house. Also here I don't mind what Blizzard does as it won't impact my game of D3, I don't like those type of games for PvP and play it mostly for the single player campaign. And even then if you are in there for the pvp or multiplayer it still won't realy affect you. It isn't like Blizzard is putting the best items in the AH, it are players that have it drop for them. It even got a bonus for you as you will certainly also get good items that are of no use for you. Now you can also trade it to strangers and even make a small amount of money out of it. What the system realy does is giving it to the players to undercut the goldsellers so that it isn't profitable for them to pay some guy to farm 24 hours a day (even with those small pays).
Does this eleminate goldfarmers? Certainly not as they still will pay guys to farm items and sell them. And I'm sure there will still be some seling done next to the AH Blizzard provides. But a lot less then without this system. Doesn't matter how hard someone tries, you can't stop goldsellers as long as there are players willing to pay them. You can only put everyone on the equal ground and hope to lower the ammount of illegal trading. And this is what Blizzard is doing with their AH for D3.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
This thread is hating on Blizzard because they finally decided to captilize on their property that third parties have been doing?
Herp derp herp derp derp herp. People will cry about anything.
No, it is hating on Blizzard because, instead of implementing models to reduce gold selling (and there are lots of those) and encourage the actual gaming (player advancement by playing the game), they actually encourage gold selling, making it legit, just for them to capitalize on it.
And this is wrong because.....?!?!?!?!?!?!?????!?!?!?!?!??!?!
Read my post again, you're hating exactly on what I just said. They capitilize on their property, you guys get mad.
Diablo 3 will still sell millions, you can't stop it. Just like how the whole QQ about Battle.net 2.0 didn't stop SC2 from going ape shit. There's NOTHING you can do...but cry.
I bet 99% of this thread will end up buying D3 actually.
Calm down.
It's wrong from the players perspective because, if you read the thread, the general consensus is that the real money AH is a bad idea for the players. For various reasons, which you'll find if you browse through the thread. It's sad because this one decision would make many of us not play a game which we kept under our radar for a long time. The fact that Blizzard won't care about what we write here and do whatever they want, i dont see the point in stating the obvious.
This thread is hating on Blizzard because they finally decided to captilize on their property that third parties have been doing?
Herp derp herp derp derp herp. People will cry about anything.
No, it is hating on Blizzard because, instead of implementing models to reduce gold selling (and there are lots of those) and encourage the actual gaming (player advancement by playing the game), they actually encourage gold selling, making it legit, just for them to capitalize on it.
And this is wrong because.....?!?!?!?!?!?!?????!?!?!?!?!??!?!
Read my post again, you're hating exactly on what I just said. They capitilize on their property, you guys get mad.
Diablo 3 will still sell millions, you can't stop it. Just like how the whole QQ about Battle.net 2.0 didn't stop SC2 from going ape shit. There's NOTHING you can do...but cry.
I bet 99% of this thread will end up buying D3 actually.
Calm down.
It's wrong from the players perspective because, if you read the thread, the general consensus is that the real money AH is a bad idea for the players. For various reasons, which you'll find if you browse through the thread. It's sad because this one decision would make many of us not play a game which we kept under our radar for a long time. The fact that Blizzard won't care about what we write here and do whatever they want, i dont see the point in stating the obvious.
I still don't think it's a bad idea. You'd rather give your $ to the Chinese? They screwed up FFXI big time for quite a bit. Then there was the D2 spamming.
This thread is hating on Blizzard because they finally decided to captilize on their property that third parties have been doing?
Herp derp herp derp derp herp. People will cry about anything.
No, it is hating on Blizzard because, instead of implementing models to reduce gold selling (and there are lots of those) and encourage the actual gaming (player advancement by playing the game), they actually encourage gold selling, making it legit, just for them to capitalize on it.
And this is wrong because.....?!?!?!?!?!?!?????!?!?!?!?!??!?!
Read my post again, you're hating exactly on what I just said. They capitilize on their property, you guys get mad.
Diablo 3 will still sell millions, you can't stop it. Just like how the whole QQ about Battle.net 2.0 didn't stop SC2 from going ape shit. There's NOTHING you can do...but cry.
I bet 99% of this thread will end up buying D3 actually.
Calm down.
It's wrong from the players perspective because, if you read the thread, the general consensus is that the real money AH is a bad idea for the players. For various reasons, which you'll find if you browse through the thread. It's sad because this one decision would make many of us not play a game which we kept under our radar for a long time. The fact that Blizzard won't care about what we write here and do whatever they want, i dont see the point in stating the obvious.
I still don't think it's a bad idea. You'd rather give your $ to the Chinese? They screwed up FFXI big time for quite a bit. Then there was the D2 spamming.
Who's gonna get the money from this, only time will tell. And no, i'd not rather give my $ to the chinese, but i'm afraid this would actually benefit the farmers even more. They will be the ones farming non-stop, they will undercut the normal players. And the spamming won't stop. You'll see "Item X in the R AH 4 USD", only this time it will be legit. That chinese farmer actually now has the right to spam his merchandise. That's what i'm afraid of.
When they were illegal, there was the "fear" of 3rd party websites, hackers, keyloggers etc. Also, the spammers were banned from time to time, they had to re-roll etc. Now all that hassle is gone. But as i said, only time will tell, i really really really hope that D3 would look differently than a big marketplace with chinese as a secondary language, as i envision it now. And you're right, i'll probably end up buying it anyway
1) AH is locked by region, so 'Chinese' farmers hopefully will get locked out of EU & US
2) Said farmers will be competing against *everyone* else.
3) If there are '40' of some ultra rare item, and assuming the people listing it actually want it to get sold and not lose the listing fee, then that ultra rare item is going to plummet in price... perhaps to the point where it is more hassle to list and try and sell it than just pop it on the regular AH.
1) AH is locked by region, so 'Chinese' farmers hopefully will get locked out of EU & US
2) Said farmers will be competing against *everyone* else.
3) If there are '40' of some ultra rare item, and assuming the people listing it actually want it to get sold and not lose the listing fee, then that ultra rare item is going to plummet in price... perhaps to the point where it is more hassle to list and try and sell it than just pop it on the regular AH.
It all depends on the fees.
If the avg item sells for a buck, the listing fee is a .05 and the sales fee is 5%, you'd be making .90 a sale.
If the avg item sells for a buck, lists for a quarter, and has the same 5%, then it drops to .70 a sale.
Now add up all the times the item got listed and didn't sell, and you create a decent insulation against rampant farmer volume.
Based on how long that happens for, the people overloading the volume go from choking a market for meager profit, to taking an active loss.
As long as the Avg.Joe seller does a little market research and not treat everything like a 5k scratch-off lotto winner, they should be fine.
Lets Push Things Forward
I knew I would live to design games at age 7, issue 5 of Nintendo Power.
Support games with subs when you believe in their potential, even in spite of their flaws.
When Free to Play Games first arrived, they were viewed as either the "brand of failure" for a previously subscription based MMORPG. However, now that triple AAA titles that were no where close to failing have gone F2P such as LOTRO and AoC, and seem to be thriving at least in the case of LOTRO, you can now look at AoC with its PvP armor and weapons you can buy and say hhhhmmmm.
We just saw how EVE was in upheaval over speculation and gray area evidence of that game going not only micro-transactions but also game affecting items. All of which caused riot conditions across EVE and now are just for vanity items.
First LOTRO with MT stat tomes, then AoC with MT weapons and armor, then the specter of EVE with MT spaceships...all game effecting items.
A very subtle excalation of MT items that affect gameplay...
Also, SWTORs CE store that no one is 100% sure what it sells...probably because Bioware is gauging player reaction...yeah yeah they said only vanity items and stuff you can get anyway in game...DUH! So then thats the same as AoC with its blue and purple PvP armor and weapons.
For existing games like AoC all the players that put in the hard work to gain such items are now shaking their heads...yeah even though they have much better than even the store items now, its still 50% of the work already being done for new players, which older players earned they old fashion way. The argument has been made that due to DESIGN FLAWs AoC alienated new players by putting them behind a gear curve that would take forever to bring them on par and competitive, i.e. you must lose 30,000 mini games to earn your PvP 5 gear LOL!
Everything is changed NOW that Blizzard is announcing a real money auction house in Diablo....and in a non-MMO.
Whats the significance you ask? Well, as you can tell by all the WoW clones....where Blizzard goes the rest of the industry goes...
Expect many non-MMO games to go with real money auction houses. Just as MT stores make games more money I am sure there will be a buyer/seller fee for blizzard with the D III auction house as well.
Business is business....these games dont provide a public service, they are products designed to make money for the publishers beyond just selling a game box. In some cases keeps games alive that have budget problems, etc. Unfortunately, it seems Devs and publishers have joined the dreaded "I want it now" generation of gamers who want to cut to the chase and not earn their gear. Sounds like real life too in some cases..wheres my job, wheres my diploma, wheres my house and car.
Hey man..you need to EARN those things.
Thats why i boycot all these publishers/developers ill never play games where real money is involved plus people can buy there way to top. I ll play good old games where you have to earn and work for your advancement. Maybe if all follow blizzard/ea and all those other money grabbing bastards ill eventually prolly dont buy new games anymore.
1) AH is locked by region, so 'Chinese' farmers hopefully will get locked out of EU & US
2) Said farmers will be competing against *everyone* else.
3) If there are '40' of some ultra rare item, and assuming the people listing it actually want it to get sold and not lose the listing fee, then that ultra rare item is going to plummet in price... perhaps to the point where it is more hassle to list and try and sell it than just pop it on the regular AH.
1) Chinese farmers will either buy NA/EU version of game or connect through EU/NA proxy whaterver is needed to access NA/EU servers. Easy to do and no brainer. Besides Blizzard announced that later on they might reconsider limiting access to AH from other region.
2) More like others will compete against farmers. They can do it better and certainly they will satisfy with less money than most of western audiences. Rememember gold farming frequently is slave/slave-like work in poor countries.
3) then they will sell gold in order for people to buy item on regular ah for gold they have sold
1) AH is locked by region, so 'Chinese' farmers hopefully will get locked out of EU & US
2) Said farmers will be competing against *everyone* else.
3) If there are '40' of some ultra rare item, and assuming the people listing it actually want it to get sold and not lose the listing fee, then that ultra rare item is going to plummet in price... perhaps to the point where it is more hassle to list and try and sell it than just pop it on the regular AH.
1) Chinese farmers will either buy NA/EU version of game or connect through EU/NA proxy whaterver is needed to access NA/EU servers. Easy to do and no brainer. Besides Blizzard announced that later on they might reconsider limiting access to AH from other region.
2) More like others will compete against farmers. They can do it better and certainly they will satisfy with less money than most of western audiences. Rememember gold farming frequently is slave/slave-like work in poor countries.
3) then they will sell gold in order for people to buy item on regular ah for gold they have sold
Or maybe while playing a game i like, i find something rare i can't or won't use, so i use one of my free postings and sell it for 25 cents. I can then use that 25 cents to buy an item i can and will use from another person in a similar situation.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
This thread is hating on Blizzard because they finally decided to captilize on their property that third parties have been doing?
Herp derp herp derp derp herp. People will cry about anything.
No, it is hating on Blizzard because, instead of implementing models to reduce gold selling (and there are lots of those) and encourage the actual gaming (player advancement by playing the game), they actually encourage gold selling, making it legit, just for them to capitalize on it.
And this is wrong because.....?!?!?!?!?!?!?????!?!?!?!?!??!?!
Read my post again, you're hating exactly on what I just said. They capitilize on their property, you guys get mad.
Diablo 3 will still sell millions, you can't stop it. Just like how the whole QQ about Battle.net 2.0 didn't stop SC2 from going ape shit. There's NOTHING you can do...but cry.
I bet 99% of this thread will end up buying D3 actually.
Calm down.
It's wrong from the players perspective because, if you read the thread, the general consensus is that the real money AH is a bad idea for the players. For various reasons, which you'll find if you browse through the thread. It's sad because this one decision would make many of us not play a game which we kept under our radar for a long time. The fact that Blizzard won't care about what we write here and do whatever they want, i dont see the point in stating the obvious.
I still don't think it's a bad idea. You'd rather give your $ to the Chinese? They screwed up FFXI big time for quite a bit. Then there was the D2 spamming.
I'd rather not participate in any RMT at all. It's not like if Blizzard doesn't have an auction house then we'll all be forced to give our money to Chinese gold farmers.
How about...don't buy gold or in game items...AT ALL.
You don't have to do it.
If others do it, then they should be banned. I realize that you probably won't catch 99% of them, but the threat should be there.
This thread is hating on Blizzard because they finally decided to captilize on their property that third parties have been doing?
Herp derp herp derp derp herp. People will cry about anything.
No, it is hating on Blizzard because, instead of implementing models to reduce gold selling (and there are lots of those) and encourage the actual gaming (player advancement by playing the game), they actually encourage gold selling, making it legit, just for them to capitalize on it.
And this is wrong because.....?!?!?!?!?!?!?????!?!?!?!?!??!?!
Read my post again, you're hating exactly on what I just said. They capitilize on their property, you guys get mad.
Diablo 3 will still sell millions, you can't stop it. Just like how the whole QQ about Battle.net 2.0 didn't stop SC2 from going ape shit. There's NOTHING you can do...but cry.
I bet 99% of this thread will end up buying D3 actually.
Calm down.
It's wrong from the players perspective because, if you read the thread, the general consensus is that the real money AH is a bad idea for the players. For various reasons, which you'll find if you browse through the thread. It's sad because this one decision would make many of us not play a game which we kept under our radar for a long time. The fact that Blizzard won't care about what we write here and do whatever they want, i dont see the point in stating the obvious.
I still don't think it's a bad idea. You'd rather give your $ to the Chinese? They screwed up FFXI big time for quite a bit. Then there was the D2 spamming.
I'd rather not participate in any RMT at all. It's not like if Blizzard doesn't have an auction house then we'll all be forced to give our money to Chinese gold farmers.
How about...don't buy gold or in game items...AT ALL.
You don't have to do it.
If others do it, then they should be banned. I realize that you probably won't catch 99% of them, but the threat should be there.
Or maybe while playing a game i like, i find something rare i can't or won't use, so i use one of my free postings and sell it for 25 cents. I can then use that 25 cents to buy an item i can and will use from another person in a similar situation.
ingame currency works for trading for better gear -- why does RL cash have to get involved?
Comments
Generally I dont care how other people play the game, but when I see that I can buy something for 10$ or play the game/grind for a while to get it, it does affect me. Suddenly a real money value is added to my gaming time and my brain starts calculating and analysing whether it is worth spending 10 hours to get that item or just buy it. Personally, all of a sudden the game turns into work or business, all immersion is lost and I start thinking if I am a fool grinding 10 hours for something that is worth 10$.
My experience has been that for reasons that are not fully clear to me I immedietly lose my enthusiasm for the game and never play it again. Its happened in every single game that I played and RMT was introduced, Eve, AoC, Lotro...... IT just seems pointless after that, I might as well buy the damn thing.... after all 10$ is irrelavant in the grand scheme of things but the fun is gone and that seems a real commodity when you are in your 30s with a couple of companies under you and its all business in RL.
"EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran
I agree with this, I make 27€/hour, I play games for the immersion, if with 10€ which doesnt even take me half an hour of work to earn I can save 10hours, then that item i bought gave me 9h30min+ of avaiable time, which just ruins what a game should be for me
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
Wait....
This thread is hating on Blizzard because they finally decided to captilize on their property that third parties have been doing?
Herp derp herp derp derp herp. People will cry about anything.
No, it is hating on Blizzard because, instead of implementing models to reduce gold selling (and there are lots of those) and encourage the actual gaming (player advancement by playing the game), they actually encourage gold selling, making it legit, just for them to capitalize on it.
The thing is, mmo and game design that are meant to be cash cow are all but immersive, in fact they are at the opposite of it, they just push up the hoarding aspect of their game to the maximum to push you to spend money. An immersive game world is all but an inflated collecting mechanism, they have many other concern that in fact kill this accumulative need. This is where the underlining concept of a design show off in a game, and this even if the dev hide it. Look at all the p2win model and it will be obvious, they all follow a very similar design path. Immersive games don't follow such a path at all.
If in the process of capitalizing on your property you are essentially destroying the game element of it for the users then people are right to complain. I don't believe people are arguing because they dont want publishers to make money but because they fear losing the games they love and enjoy!!!
Heck I ll give them 50$ per month so they dont ruin that game that I like for me, but unfortunately 1 by 1 they are all falling....
I'm not sure how Blizzard is going to handle rare items. There is a fairly extensive crafting side to the game, so I would expect that to be a primary driver in the AH.
What I wouldn't give for taxes to be 'fair' in any country.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
This is where I will define my line to play or not to play.
I dont mind a sub, if said sub is justified with content updates on a regular base and good custumer service.
If the games try to get me on a loop where its either pay x amount or grind for 10hours for this item then I wont play that game. For the reasons that Pala said, it becomes a business isntead of playing the game for some immersion and escape real life problems.
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
Have you considered that maybe you really a fool for grinding that much for a virtual item? Maybe the item really is not worth anything and you are simply deceiving yourself into thinking that you are having fun?
I didnt really needed to change my car, I could probably cover 1million more Km with it without major problems, but I still did because I wanted a new one that made me happy.
Hell, if we gonna go on your post no1 would ever play an MMORPG
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
And this is wrong because.....?!?!?!?!?!?!?????!?!?!?!?!??!?!
Read my post again, you're hating exactly on what I just said. They capitilize on their property, you guys get mad.
Diablo 3 will still sell millions, you can't stop it. Just like how the whole QQ about Battle.net 2.0 didn't stop SC2 from going ape shit. There's NOTHING you can do...but cry.
I bet 99% of this thread will end up buying D3 actually.
And that is exactly what the recent hybrid models offer. You can either pay subscription and have the same access to the game as before. Mostly with some added bonus points to spend in the game shop.
The hybrid model of Turbine is the one I think is the best, as you can get all items ingame, even turbine points. It is the players choice if they want the fast easy way wich costs money or the harder way wich cost time. But if you got the time you can play the game entirely free without spending 1 cent. Of course Turbine makes it hard to gain those points ingame, if it was to easy they wouldn't gain enough income to support their games further.
I don't mind if more games adopt that hybrid model Turbine is using, as long as you can get all game impacting items through investing time ingame as well and not only through the ingamestore. Vanity items are excluded as they are only fluff and shouldn't impact the gameplay.
Next we got the D3 real money auction house. Also here I don't mind what Blizzard does as it won't impact my game of D3, I don't like those type of games for PvP and play it mostly for the single player campaign. And even then if you are in there for the pvp or multiplayer it still won't realy affect you. It isn't like Blizzard is putting the best items in the AH, it are players that have it drop for them. It even got a bonus for you as you will certainly also get good items that are of no use for you. Now you can also trade it to strangers and even make a small amount of money out of it. What the system realy does is giving it to the players to undercut the goldsellers so that it isn't profitable for them to pay some guy to farm 24 hours a day (even with those small pays).
Does this eleminate goldfarmers? Certainly not as they still will pay guys to farm items and sell them. And I'm sure there will still be some seling done next to the AH Blizzard provides. But a lot less then without this system. Doesn't matter how hard someone tries, you can't stop goldsellers as long as there are players willing to pay them. You can only put everyone on the equal ground and hope to lower the ammount of illegal trading. And this is what Blizzard is doing with their AH for D3.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
Calm down.
It's wrong from the players perspective because, if you read the thread, the general consensus is that the real money AH is a bad idea for the players. For various reasons, which you'll find if you browse through the thread. It's sad because this one decision would make many of us not play a game which we kept under our radar for a long time. The fact that Blizzard won't care about what we write here and do whatever they want, i dont see the point in stating the obvious.
I still don't think it's a bad idea. You'd rather give your $ to the Chinese? They screwed up FFXI big time for quite a bit. Then there was the D2 spamming.
Who's gonna get the money from this, only time will tell. And no, i'd not rather give my $ to the chinese, but i'm afraid this would actually benefit the farmers even more. They will be the ones farming non-stop, they will undercut the normal players. And the spamming won't stop. You'll see "Item X in the R AH 4 USD", only this time it will be legit. That chinese farmer actually now has the right to spam his merchandise. That's what i'm afraid of.
When they were illegal, there was the "fear" of 3rd party websites, hackers, keyloggers etc. Also, the spammers were banned from time to time, they had to re-roll etc. Now all that hassle is gone. But as i said, only time will tell, i really really really hope that D3 would look differently than a big marketplace with chinese as a secondary language, as i envision it now. And you're right, i'll probably end up buying it anyway
1) AH is locked by region, so 'Chinese' farmers hopefully will get locked out of EU & US
2) Said farmers will be competing against *everyone* else.
3) If there are '40' of some ultra rare item, and assuming the people listing it actually want it to get sold and not lose the listing fee, then that ultra rare item is going to plummet in price... perhaps to the point where it is more hassle to list and try and sell it than just pop it on the regular AH.
It all depends on the fees.
If the avg item sells for a buck, the listing fee is a .05 and the sales fee is 5%, you'd be making .90 a sale.
If the avg item sells for a buck, lists for a quarter, and has the same 5%, then it drops to .70 a sale.
Now add up all the times the item got listed and didn't sell, and you create a decent insulation against rampant farmer volume.
Based on how long that happens for, the people overloading the volume go from choking a market for meager profit, to taking an active loss.
As long as the Avg.Joe seller does a little market research and not treat everything like a 5k scratch-off lotto winner, they should be fine.
Lets Push Things Forward
I knew I would live to design games at age 7, issue 5 of Nintendo Power.
Support games with subs when you believe in their potential, even in spite of their flaws.
Thats why i boycot all these publishers/developers ill never play games where real money is involved plus people can buy there way to top. I ll play good old games where you have to earn and work for your advancement. Maybe if all follow blizzard/ea and all those other money grabbing bastards ill eventually prolly dont buy new games anymore.
1) Chinese farmers will either buy NA/EU version of game or connect through EU/NA proxy whaterver is needed to access NA/EU servers. Easy to do and no brainer. Besides Blizzard announced that later on they might reconsider limiting access to AH from other region.
2) More like others will compete against farmers. They can do it better and certainly they will satisfy with less money than most of western audiences. Rememember gold farming frequently is slave/slave-like work in poor countries.
3) then they will sell gold in order for people to buy item on regular ah for gold they have sold
Or maybe while playing a game i like, i find something rare i can't or won't use, so i use one of my free postings and sell it for 25 cents. I can then use that 25 cents to buy an item i can and will use from another person in a similar situation.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
I'd rather not participate in any RMT at all. It's not like if Blizzard doesn't have an auction house then we'll all be forced to give our money to Chinese gold farmers.
How about...don't buy gold or in game items...AT ALL.
You don't have to do it.
If others do it, then they should be banned. I realize that you probably won't catch 99% of them, but the threat should be there.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
You're not very realistic are you? lol
ingame currency works for trading for better gear -- why does RL cash have to get involved?
EQ2 fan sites