Quest nodes killed the exploration star

Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDMember Posts: 5,359

One of the biggest problems I've had with recent MMORPGs is that it just seems like that feeling of exploration is just...gone.

In SPRPGs like BG/BG2, PS:T, or the Elder Scrolls, one of my favorite things to do has always been to just explore the world.  There's almost always interesting things to run into just through exploring in games like that.  You never know when you're going to find and often exploration can be very rewarding.  For example, you could find a caravan under attack by monsters and the grateful merchants would reward you after saving them.  Experiences like this are typically spread all throughout the world of an SPRPG.

UO had this feeling of exploration as well.  You really never knew what you would run into when wandering around the world because of things like player housing etc.  Even EQ had a decent feeling of exploration.  While EQ didn't exactly actively encourage exploration, you could find some really nice camping spots by exploring and increase your rate of gaining exp.

But in a quest node MMORPG...exploration is basically actively discouraged.  If you decide to just go off on your own, you will always run into a bunch of MOBs that are meant for quest X, but since you don't have quest X, they are useless to you.  So you are forced to just go from one quest node to the next being drawn along on a string to each location.  If you ever decide to just explore on your own, you may find some pretty vistas, but your exp rate will suffer dramatically...and there generally aren't many rewards for exploring other than cosmetic achievements.

This is why I really hope that MMORPGs get away from the quest node experience.  Theme park or sandbox, we need to bring exploration back.  I truly hope that new approaches like the dynamic events in GW2 will bring back this feeling of exploration that has been missing for so long.

So now that I've sounded off, what do you all think?  Do you agree that quest nodes have basically killed the feeling of exploration in MMORPGs?

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

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Comments

  • LeoghanLeoghan Herndon, VAMember Posts: 607

    This is actually something that I think Vanguard balanced very well. While the game had the "themepark" element of sending you from one place to the next for a chain of quests, it also had locations and monsters in these areas that were unrelated to those quests. I remember stumbling on a troll cave while doing a quest line, it was way out of my level range at the time, but I still snuck as close as I could to it and looked around. Later when I was closer to that level I came back even though my quests were directing me somewhere else. 

    I think a balance can be struck, but I think few games want to do that any more. 

  • AkiyeAkiye clMember Posts: 109

    Sploring is what i spend most of my time doing in MMORPGS, so not sure how it has been killed. You say coming across y or w/e mobs is useless to you since you dont have the quest for them. Are you sploring or out to get easy xps questing? If comign across Y mobs was fun for you t ofind and splore the area whats the problem?  You dont have to follow quest nodes all the time or in my case much at all. Player choice you killed it for yourself.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDMember Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Akiye

    Sploring is what i spend most of my time doing in MMORPGS, so not sure how it has been killed. You dont have to follow quest nodes all the time or in my case much at all. Player choice you killed it for yourself.

     Which MMORPGs are you playing?

    In Rift, WAR, and WoW I tried exploring, but I always ran into a bunch of content that was obviously just there for a quest and really didn't have much of a point without it.  For example, if you run into a bunch of gnolls and kill them all, you only get experience for the kills...which is like nothing.  Even more frustrating is that you will probably get a quest to kill 10 of  those SAME GNOLLS when you go to the quest node and have to do it again.

    So I mean, yeah you can explore.  But you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot.  I find it very frustrating to have to kill the same monsters twice because I didn't have the quest when I killed them the first time.  You're better off just getting the quests like the game wants you to.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Killswitch34Killswitch34 Edmonton, ABMember Posts: 87

    SW:ToR is also encouraging exploring, not just GW2 and SW:ToR is encouraging it more so then GW2 from what I've read. Permenant stat bonuses on the holocrons hidden around all the worlds, seems like a good reason to explore to me.

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  • AkiyeAkiye clMember Posts: 109

    Originally posted by Creslin321


    Originally posted by Akiye


    Sploring is what i spend most of my time doing in MMORPGS, so not sure how it has been killed. You dont have to follow quest nodes all the time or in my case much at all. Player choice you killed it for yourself.

     Which MMORPGs are you playing?

    In Rift, WAR, and WoW I tried exploring, but I always ran into a bunch of content that was obviously just there for a quest and really didn't have much of a point without it.  For example, if you run into a bunch of gnolls and kill them all, you only get experience for the kills...which is like nothing.  Even more frustrating is that you will probably get a quest to kill 10 of  those SAME GNOLLS when you go to the quest node and have to do it again.

    So I mean, yeah you can explore.  But you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot.  I find it very frustrating to have to kill the same monsters twice because I didn't have the quest when I killed them the first time.  You're better off just getting the quests like the game wants you to.

    YOu have to treat them as different things. I go off to quest and end up just sploring. WoW is not a very friendly exploring game but it can be done and is fun until you seen it all. I currently play LOTRO. THe xps i get from sploring isnt a lot in that game ethier, However, it is what i enjoy doing, I dont care about the xps except at certain times  (close to level, armor i want to wear, or a new area i want to see). THats the big thing its up to you which you want to do. Same with those that rush to endgame. Why rush enjoy the journey and if you do rush dont complain once you get there you are bored.  Anyways, got a little off ^_^. I think im having problems understanding why you are complaining about xps when it is sploring you wish to do.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDMember Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Akiye


    Originally posted by Creslin321


    Originally posted by Akiye

    Sploring is what i spend most of my time doing in MMORPGS, so not sure how it has been killed. You dont have to follow quest nodes all the time or in my case much at all. Player choice you killed it for yourself.

     Which MMORPGs are you playing?

    In Rift, WAR, and WoW I tried exploring, but I always ran into a bunch of content that was obviously just there for a quest and really didn't have much of a point without it.  For example, if you run into a bunch of gnolls and kill them all, you only get experience for the kills...which is like nothing.  Even more frustrating is that you will probably get a quest to kill 10 of  those SAME GNOLLS when you go to the quest node and have to do it again.

    So I mean, yeah you can explore.  But you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot.  I find it very frustrating to have to kill the same monsters twice because I didn't have the quest when I killed them the first time.  You're better off just getting the quests like the game wants you to.

    YOu have to treat them as different things. I go off to quest and end up just sploring. WoW is not a very friendly exploring game but it can be done and is fun until you seen it all. I currently play LOTRO. THe xps i get from sploring isnt a lot in that game ethier, However, it is what i enjoy doing, I dont care about the xps except at certain times  (close to level, armor i want to wear, or a new area i want to see). THats the big thing its up to you which you want to do. Same with those that rush to endgame. Why rush enjoy the journey and if you do rush dont complain once you get there you are bored.  Anyways, got a little off ^_^. I think im having problems understanding why you are complaining about xps when it is sploring you wish to do.

     I want both ;).

    Like most typical MMORPG players I want to level and get new abilities, more powerful etc.  One of the big drivers to exploring for me is finding things that are rewarding for my character whether exp or a unique item.  When I know that exploring gives me much less than questing...then I'm going to quest.

    You may think that my priorities are off here, but look at a lot of explorers throughout history.  The spanish conquistadors and 49ers explored because they thought they could find gold, Ponce De Leon explored because he thought he could find the fountain of youth.  I think that most exploration is done with the goal of someone finding something that will be to your benefit.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDMember Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Killswitch34

    SW:ToR is also encouraging exploring, not just GW2 and SW:ToR is encouraging it more so then GW2 from what I've read. Permenant stat bonuses on the holocrons hidden around all the worlds, seems like a good reason to explore to me.

     Good to hear, though I think that the dynamic events may big a bigger incentive to explore just because they eliminate quest nodes.  When quests are tied to the world and not the player, you don't have to worry about not having the quest to kill the gnolls terrorizing the town.  You just kill them and get the reward.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORMember UncommonPosts: 5,614

    I still go exploring in every MMO I play. Quest hubs are optional. If getting less xp upsets you to the point that you ditch your preferred style of playing, I guess I cant really help you there.

    The dynamic events in GW2 are interesting though. The whole game is a bunch of events happening all the time, triggering off each other, going through their cycles, etc. To me that feels a little bit like one gigantic quest hub. But thats fine with me. In GW2, I will be exploring a bunch of quest hubs hehe. That should be pretty cool.

    ToR is gonna walk me through a story for my leveling experience. I can live with that. Especially knowing that I'll have a ton of planets to explore all of them pretty huge. Plus you get rewards for discovering hard to reach or obscure places which will be a lot of fun.

    I honestly dont understand why some people complain about not being able to do stuff like explore or roleplay in an mmo. I mean you just do what you want to do and not worry about what you think youre missing out on. You want to explore? Go exploring lol the only thing stopping you is your own expectations.

  • AkiyeAkiye clMember Posts: 109

    Originally posted by Creslin321


    Originally posted by Akiye



    Originally posted by Creslin321



    Originally posted by Akiye


    Sploring is what i spend most of my time doing in MMORPGS, so not sure how it has been killed. You dont have to follow quest nodes all the time or in my case much at all. Player choice you killed it for yourself.

     Which MMORPGs are you playing?

    In Rift, WAR, and WoW I tried exploring, but I always ran into a bunch of content that was obviously just there for a quest and really didn't have much of a point without it.  For example, if you run into a bunch of gnolls and kill them all, you only get experience for the kills...which is like nothing.  Even more frustrating is that you will probably get a quest to kill 10 of  those SAME GNOLLS when you go to the quest node and have to do it again.

    So I mean, yeah you can explore.  But you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot.  I find it very frustrating to have to kill the same monsters twice because I didn't have the quest when I killed them the first time.  You're better off just getting the quests like the game wants you to.

    YOu have to treat them as different things. I go off to quest and end up just sploring. WoW is not a very friendly exploring game but it can be done and is fun until you seen it all. I currently play LOTRO. THe xps i get from sploring isnt a lot in that game ethier, However, it is what i enjoy doing, I dont care about the xps except at certain times  (close to level, armor i want to wear, or a new area i want to see). THats the big thing its up to you which you want to do. Same with those that rush to endgame. Why rush enjoy the journey and if you do rush dont complain once you get there you are bored.  Anyways, got a little off ^_^. I think im having problems understanding why you are complaining about xps when it is sploring you wish to do.

     I want both ;).

    Like most typical MMORPG players I want to level and get new abilities, more powerful etc.  One of the big drivers to exploring for me is finding things that are rewarding for my character whether exp or a unique item.  When I know that exploring gives me much less than questing...then I'm going to quest.

    You may think that my priorities are off here, but look at a lot of explorers throughout history.  The spanish conquistadors and 49ers explored because they thought they could find gold, Ponce De Leon explored because he thought he could find the fountain of youth.  I think that most exploration is done with the goal of someone finding something that will be to your benefit.

    No i dont judge why others play game i was just a bit confused it seems. I understand plenty of people are after xps or items in these games as thats one big way your avatar gets better. Im in a bit of a different boat. I like to find little neat things that at least amuse me ^_^, or just wondering around chatting having fun and at times a little bit of Role Playing. I was thinking you where more on them how i am =). So in that case perhaps it does discourage sploring in some ways but at the same time games questing tends to take you to most if not all areas, its up to you what you do once you get there. For example you can kill your ten gnolls inside the cave they are by or just kill them all outside. I have found quest make it easier for me to splore which is where my I go to quest then end up sploring comes from

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILMember Posts: 6,403

    I think you're blaming quest nodes for player's tendency to always seek the path of least resistance.

    You can explore, you can grind in any game--it's just not an efficient way to race to the cap in two weeks.

    Devs use High Score tactics to trap and addict the players, but the drawback is that while zooming to the cap at warp speed, you tend to miss a lot of what the game offers.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • AliothAlioth Member UncommonPosts: 236

    I'm with you, OP. Exploration sure isn't what it used to be. Like you, my problem with modern MMOs is that they're designed around quest hubs and often have linear worlds that feed you down a designated path. The problem is, once you leave that path, there really isn't much to see - virtually all content takes place on or around the path.It was a lot of fun in UO when you'd be out exploring and come across someones house in the middle of nowhere, especially when they were rollplaying really creatively.

    As for creativity, it has been really weak on the developers part these last number of years. Unfortunately, that lack of creativity has bled into all aspects of their games and what the player gets is a game that provides as few tools as possible that facilitate the use of imagination and creative exploration.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDMember Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Alioth

    I'm with you, OP. Exploration sure isn't what it used to be. Like you, my problem with modern MMOs is that they're designed around quest hubs and often have linear worlds that feed you down a designated path. The problem is, once you leave that path, there really isn't much to see - virtually all content takes place on or around the path.It was a lot of fun in UO when you'd be out exploring and come across someones house in the middle of nowhere, especially when they were rollplaying really creatively.
    As for creativity, it has been really weak on the developers part these last number of years. Unfortunately, that lack of creativity has bled into all aspects of their games and what the player gets is a game that provides as few tools as possible that facilitate the use of imagination and creative exploration.

     Thanks, I completely agree and you may have expressed it better than I did in my OP.

    I know a lot of folks think that it's the "players problem" if they aren't exploring but really...it's just like you said.  There's nothing to see.  You can explore all you want, but if you aren't doing the quest node content there's just not much there.  With phasing it's even moreso because you won't even see part of the game until you do the quests.

    It's true that you can see interesting things while you're questing, but you're basically on a guided tour at that point.  There's a big difference between going on a tour of something interesting and exploring it for yourself.  In my opinion, tours kind of suck.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORMember UncommonPosts: 5,614


    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by Alioth
    I'm with you, OP. Exploration sure isn't what it used to be. Like you, my problem with modern MMOs is that they're designed around quest hubs and often have linear worlds that feed you down a designated path. The problem is, once you leave that path, there really isn't much to see - virtually all content takes place on or around the path.It was a lot of fun in UO when you'd be out exploring and come across someones house in the middle of nowhere, especially when they were rollplaying really creatively.
    As for creativity, it has been really weak on the developers part these last number of years. Unfortunately, that lack of creativity has bled into all aspects of their games and what the player gets is a game that provides as few tools as possible that facilitate the use of imagination and creative exploration.
     Thanks, I completely agree and you may have expressed it better than I did in my OP.
    I know a lot of folks think that it's the "players problem" if they aren't exploring but really...it's just like you said.  There's nothing to see.  You can explore all you want, but if you aren't doing the quest node content there's just not much there.  With phasing it's even moreso because you won't even see part of the game until you do the quests.
    It's true that you can see interesting things while you're questing, but you're basically on a guided tour at that point.  There's a big difference between going on a tour of something interesting and exploring it for yourself.  In my opinion, tours kind of suck.


    I agree with the phasing part. In fact Id argue to say that phasing killed the exploration star heh. (btw nice reference in your title. I sang it when I read it heh)
  • AkiyeAkiye clMember Posts: 109

    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Creslin321





    Originally posted by Alioth

    I'm with you, OP. Exploration sure isn't what it used to be. Like you, my problem with modern MMOs is that they're designed around quest hubs and often have linear worlds that feed you down a designated path. The problem is, once you leave that path, there really isn't much to see - virtually all content takes place on or around the path.It was a lot of fun in UO when you'd be out exploring and come across someones house in the middle of nowhere, especially when they were rollplaying really creatively.

    As for creativity, it has been really weak on the developers part these last number of years. Unfortunately, that lack of creativity has bled into all aspects of their games and what the player gets is a game that provides as few tools as possible that facilitate the use of imagination and creative exploration.





     Thanks, I completely agree and you may have expressed it better than I did in my OP.

    I know a lot of folks think that it's the "players problem" if they aren't exploring but really...it's just like you said.  There's nothing to see.  You can explore all you want, but if you aren't doing the quest node content there's just not much there.  With phasing it's even moreso because you won't even see part of the game until you do the quests.

    It's true that you can see interesting things while you're questing, but you're basically on a guided tour at that point.  There's a big difference between going on a tour of something interesting and exploring it for yourself.  In my opinion, tours kind of suck.







    I agree with the phasing part. In fact Id argue to say that phasing killed the exploration star heh. (btw nice reference in your title. I sang it when I read it heh)

     

    Did you hold your nose to help sing it =)

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Denton, TXMember Posts: 3,138

    I'm in agreement with you Creslin. It is certainly one of a few things that have done exploration in.

     

    This topic made me think about my time in Asheron's Call. AC had quests, sure, but not "hubs". And they didn't have flashing exclamation points above the quest givers either. You literally found quests (if you didn't hit the internet cheat sites) by roaming around out in the wilderness and coming up on a small building out in the seriously middle of nowhere and finding a few NPCs standing around. Talk to each of them and you might get a quest starter.

     

    This was also how you found alot of the dungeons Turbine would add into the game every so often. There would be no mark on your radar or game map. You'd just roam around killing things taking advantage of their awesome random loot generator and see something in the distance. Approach it and it was a portal and the only way to know what was in there was to step in. The dungeon could be small, medium or freaking huge. There might be creatures below your level, equal or above (or a mix). You may run through the dungeon killing things to find a quest giver at the very end.

     

    You had to explore the map of Dereth and what you found was extremely random each time. That's what kept me and many others playing for so long. It really was like getting a nifty present everytime you went out to explore from the handful of cities.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • AkiyeAkiye clMember Posts: 109

    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    I'm in agreement with you Creslin. It is certainly one of a few things that have done exploration in.
     
    This topic made me think about my time in Asheron's Call. AC had quests, sure, but not "hubs". And they didn't have flashing exclamation points above the quest givers either. You literally found quests (if you didn't hit the internet cheat sites) by roaming around out in the wilderness and coming up on a small building out in the seriously middle of nowhere and finding a few NPCs standing around. Talk to each of them and you might get a quest starter.
     
    This was also how you found alot of the dungeons Turbine would add into the game every so often. There would be no mark on your radar or game map. You'd just roam around killing things taking advantage of their awesome random loot generator and see something in the distance. Approach it and it was a portal and the only way to know what was in there was to step in. The dungeon could be small, medium or freaking huge. There might be creatures below your level, equal or above (or a mix). You may run through the dungeon killing things to find a quest giver at the very end.
     
    You had to explore the map of Dereth and what you found was extremely random each time. That's what kept me and many others playing for so long. It really was like getting a nifty present everytime you went out to explore from the handful of cities.

    AC was such a fun world to splore. I dont know how many times i had to get my brother and some friends to get my body or most of the time bodies back =). so many caves to splore was great fun. THe caves in LOTRO remind me a lot of that game. I was thinking of going back to it for a bit, but i heard it changed so much it really isnt much of teh game it was back then.

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHMember Posts: 1,214

    Quest GPS has destroyed true exploration in most MMO's anymore.....sadly.

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Member UncommonPosts: 1,029

    Eh, I'm with the OP. Exploration became far less interesting when every spawn in every zone on every continent had a very specific and direct purpose. The difference between the games that didn't have quest hubs was that exploration usually had some sizeable reward to discover, while in most of the themeparks of today, exploration is simply sight seeing. I know that TOR is doing a bit to mix that up, so I'm looking forward to seeing how "hybrid" they got in regards to exploration.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • SulaaSulaa nMember UncommonPosts: 1,329

    Well it is not only quest hubs fault.

     

    Another reason is that game worlds are made small , limited and packed with mobs everywhere.

     

    It is really disencouraging exploring.  There are almost no places without mobs so by exploring you agroo them all the time having to run or fight very frequently. There are very few places that don't serve as a quest place.

    Just look at Rift for example. World is small , if you take two steps from the road you get into bunch of mobs , same with newer Lotro areas. In Mirkwood or Enedwaith mobs are on every corner and there are only quest hubs, places that play a role in quest or filler areas swarmed with mobs.

     

    Inn older games you had to LOOK for something. There were some empty areas that when you were travelling through them you could stumble upon for example:

    - some small orc stronghold in which there sometimes was a boss that could drop nice axe

    - place deep in forest where diffrent kind of trees were growing which wood were much sought for

    - player made guild village which you joined

    - some open world dungeon which you could return later on with friends to exlore

    - some NPC with interesting quest in some remote area which no many ppl know that he existed

    - animal that had unique color and you could take it's skin to give tailor to make you unique colored jacket

    - just great looking place

    + many other things

     

    Nowadays it is only : quest hubs, quest places , areas filled with mobs standing 2 meters from each other. And nothing beside that.  Additionaly areas are small , with artifical borders like mountatins everywhere.

    There are much more powerful PC's at players home, Servers are also much more powerful , bandwidtch is much cheaper and average user have broadband connection in home , yet game worlds are much simpler and smaller than in times when majority of people played on 56 kbps modems (yes your download speed was like 6-7 KB/s).

     

     

    EDIT: not to mention quest tracker. It shows you EXACTLY where to go, how many meters are you from it ,etc

    Instead of helping player quest tracker just thinks for player.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORMember UncommonPosts: 5,614


    Originally posted by Akiye

    Originally posted by Foomerang
     


    Originally posted by Creslin321



    Originally posted by Alioth
    I'm with you, OP. Exploration sure isn't what it used to be. Like you, my problem with modern MMOs is that they're designed around quest hubs and often have linear worlds that feed you down a designated path. The problem is, once you leave that path, there really isn't much to see - virtually all content takes place on or around the path.It was a lot of fun in UO when you'd be out exploring and come across someones house in the middle of nowhere, especially when they were rollplaying really creatively.
    As for creativity, it has been really weak on the developers part these last number of years. Unfortunately, that lack of creativity has bled into all aspects of their games and what the player gets is a game that provides as few tools as possible that facilitate the use of imagination and creative exploration.


     Thanks, I completely agree and you may have expressed it better than I did in my OP.
    I know a lot of folks think that it's the "players problem" if they aren't exploring but really...it's just like you said.  There's nothing to see.  You can explore all you want, but if you aren't doing the quest node content there's just not much there.  With phasing it's even moreso because you won't even see part of the game until you do the quests.
    It's true that you can see interesting things while you're questing, but you're basically on a guided tour at that point.  There's a big difference between going on a tour of something interesting and exploring it for yourself.  In my opinion, tours kind of suck.




    I agree with the phasing part. In fact Id argue to say that phasing killed the exploration star heh. (btw nice reference in your title. I sang it when I read it heh)
     


    Did you hold your nose to help sing it =)


    haha
  • skeaserskeaser Wichita Falls, TXMember UncommonPosts: 3,906

    Originally posted by Leoghan

    This is actually something that I think Vanguard balanced very well. While the game had the "themepark" element of sending you from one place to the next for a chain of quests, it also had locations and monsters in these areas that were unrelated to those quests. I remember stumbling on a troll cave while doing a quest line, it was way out of my level range at the time, but I still snuck as close as I could to it and looked around. Later when I was closer to that level I came back even though my quests were directing me somewhere else. 
    I think a balance can be struck, but I think few games want to do that any more. 

    Vanguard is awesome for this. A buddy and I were duo'ing the HRT questline and came across some completely unrelated to quest crypt and took a peek. Lots of baddies and at the end we ended up getting some quest item to deliver to town. It was kind of cool getting rewarded for being nosy busybodies.

  • KaeriganKaerigan None Of Your BusinessMember Posts: 689

    I just wanted to say that these are the kinds of threads I appreciate. Calm, rational discussion and no ranting nor internet drama in sight.

    I totally agree with this sentiment. Also I think game developers actively make it harder to be an explorer by filling the world up to the max with mobs. Why go to that tower on the horizon if you have to fight through 500 mobs to do it? I don't think that's fun.

    I'm exploring a bit in LOTRO, though. I feel as if it works better there than in WoW. The real hope for me at least lies in GW2. The developers have talked over and over again about how you're encouraged to stray from the beaten path. I think they had an example where you might find a hidden cave with pirate ghosts in it complete with ghostly treasure and accidentally kick off a world-changing event chain.

    <childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAMember UncommonPosts: 1,920

    I hate my MMO chore list and my little go here, now go there, now go back for your reward, good doggy quest map.  I completely agree that it ruins exploration.  It's lazy devs, lazy lazy lazy.  Especially you, Funcom, for shame, I know you know how to do better than you did with AoC, because I played AO. 

     

    AoC has it's moments, don't get me wrong, but it's very restrictive on what you can do and where you can do it.  Want to twink and take on twenty mobs your level in the middle of nowhere to grind for xp without some quest giver looking over your shoulder?  Hah.  Forget it.  That was AO.  Age of Conan is sadly lacking.  And it's lacking that exploration and variety of choices because it went along with all the other games that lack those things.  So boring.  Time for a change.  I don't know if GW2 will really provide that change, though.  I'll believe it when I see it.  

     

    I wish that game would hurry up and release.

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  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDMember Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Sulaa

    Well it is not only quest hubs fault.
     
    Another reason is that game worlds are made small , limited and packed with mobs everywhere.
     
    It is really disencouraging exploring.  There are almost no places without mobs so by exploring you agroo them all the time having to run or fight very frequently. There are very few places that don't serve as a quest place.
    Just look at Rift for example. World is small , if you take two steps from the road you get into bunch of mobs , same with newer Lotro areas. In Mirkwood or Enedwaith mobs are on every corner and there are only quest hubs, places that play a role in quest or filler areas swarmed with mobs.
     
    Inn older games you had to LOOK for something. There were some empty areas that when you were travelling through them you could stumble upon for example:
    - some small orc stronghold in which there sometimes was a boss that could drop nice axe
    - place deep in forest where diffrent kind of trees were growing which wood were much sought for
    - player made guild village which you joined
    - some open world dungeon which you could return later on with friends to exlore
    - some NPC with interesting quest in some remote area which no many ppl know that he existed
    - animal that had unique color and you could take it's skin to give tailor to make you unique colored jacket
    - just great looking place
    + many other things
     
    Nowadays it is only : quest hubs, quest places , areas filled with mobs standing 2 meters from each other. And nothing beside that.  Additionaly areas are small , with artifical borders like mountatins everywhere.
    There are much more powerful PC's at players home, Servers are also much more powerful , bandwidtch is much cheaper and average user have broadband connection in home , yet game worlds are much simpler and smaller than in times when majority of people played on 56 kbps modems (yes your download speed was like 6-7 KB/s).
     
     
    EDIT: not to mention quest tracker. It shows you EXACTLY where to go, how many meters are you from it ,etc
    Instead of helping player quest tracker just thinks for player.

     This is a GREAT point and I think it's why games like WAR and Rift just seem so uninteresting to me.  The games were clearly designed with efficiency in mind.  Every area in the compact world has a purpose for some quest and is filled with MOBs...exploring is extremely painful because you have to fight through swarms of MOBs to get anywhere.

    It just makes the world feel so artificial.  Even vanilla WoW was not this bad.  You could at least walk through zones without having to fight every 20 seconds.  Many of the newer games just seemed to completely forget that they are supposed to be building an interesting world and took the path of least resistence:  Build enough content for players to get max level and to hell with the rest.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAMember CommonPosts: 10,910

    The quest node method of moving players along exists because a lot of players were tired of blundering around in the world. It's the reason that quest helper map markers exist. When the whole purpose of your game is character progression, and that progression is plainly marked as an XP bar, then anything that doesn't contribute to that XP progression is wasting time.

    It's not even a 'what came first' kind of thing. Players wanted a clearly defined method to progress their character. Developers provided it.

    I'd like to see a balance between the quest hub progression and the open world stuff. For that matter, I'd like to see the open world stuff (mob migrations, and mob genocide) affect the progression content and quests as well. For instance, if a particular mob is totally wiped out by players, an NPC (an unscrupulous one) will offer you a lot of gold to find and import more mobs to the area.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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