Normally Youtube videos show 2 tank and 2 healers 4man party... so, if I want to play as SIth Inquisitor DPS, probably I wont find group, right?
Thank you for the help!
the ideal 4 man is 1 tank 1 heal 2 dps, whether 2 3 or 4 people are players or some are companions under ai control to fill a gap. double tank double heal is going to severly lack dps.
4 dps or 3 dps and a healer will have some people dieing a bit im sure but would be just as doable due to insane dps. (well no bosses without someone being tankable)
also remember every class has 2 specialties, inquisitors are the healer, but can also be a meelee dps, warriors can be juggernaut tanks or dual wielding meelee dps, imperial agents on the other hand are snipers or up close dps, and the bounty hunter can be nasty dps or dps tank.
You said "severly lack dps", but another think I don't get is... they are saying that Tank/Healer are going to do almost the same amount DPS as pure DPS class... so, why would they need a pure DPS class if would be better having another extra heal or extra dps?
Probably I'm wrong, but I read in swtor forum somethink like it.
Normally Youtube videos show 2 tank and 2 healers 4man party... so, if I want to play as SIth Inquisitor DPS, probably I wont find group, right?
Thank you for the help!
the ideal 4 man is 1 tank 1 heal 2 dps, whether 2 3 or 4 people are players or some are companions under ai control to fill a gap. double tank double heal is going to severly lack dps.
4 dps or 3 dps and a healer will have some people dieing a bit im sure but would be just as doable due to insane dps. (well no bosses without someone being tankable)
also remember every class has 2 specialties, inquisitors are the healer, but can also be a meelee dps, warriors can be juggernaut tanks or dual wielding meelee dps, imperial agents on the other hand are snipers or up close dps, and the bounty hunter can be nasty dps or dps tank.
You said "severly lack dps", but another think I don't get is... they are saying that Tank/Healer are going to do almost the same amount DPS as pure DPS class... so, why would they need a pure DPS class if would be better having another extra heal or extra dps?
Probably I'm wrong, but I read in swtor forum somethink like it.
Sorry about the poor English, thank you again!
The thing about a DPS class (in most games) is that even if a tank can do almost as good damage in normal situations, you will still miss out on the criticals, which is where a DPS excels. Hit for hit the damage may only be 10% difference, but when a critical is hit and the DPS doubles his damage on that attack, that can be the difference in a hard fight more often than not.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Normally Youtube videos show 2 tank and 2 healers 4man party... so, if I want to play as SIth Inquisitor DPS, probably I wont find group, right?
Thank you for the help!
the ideal 4 man is 1 tank 1 heal 2 dps, whether 2 3 or 4 people are players or some are companions under ai control to fill a gap. double tank double heal is going to severly lack dps.
4 dps or 3 dps and a healer will have some people dieing a bit im sure but would be just as doable due to insane dps. (well no bosses without someone being tankable)
also remember every class has 2 specialties, inquisitors are the healer, but can also be a meelee dps, warriors can be juggernaut tanks or dual wielding meelee dps, imperial agents on the other hand are snipers or up close dps, and the bounty hunter can be nasty dps or dps tank.
You said "severly lack dps", but another think I don't get is... they are saying that Tank/Healer are going to do almost the same amount DPS as pure DPS class... so, why would they need a pure DPS class if would be better having another extra heal or extra dps?
Probably I'm wrong, but I read in swtor forum somethink like it.
Sorry about the poor English, thank you again!
The thing about a DPS class (in most games) is that even if a tank can do almost as good damage in normal situations, you will still miss out on the criticals, which is where a DPS excels. Hit for hit the damage may only be 10% difference, but when a critical is hit and the DPS doubles his damage on that attack, that can be the difference in a hard fight more often than not.
I have a feeling that the criticals will not be what sets them apart. I have a feeling utlility and cc will be.
[quote][i]Originally posted by neorandom[/i] [b][quote] [i]Originally posted by cybersrs[/i] [b]Hello![/b] [b]Could someone help me please...[/b] [b]Normally Youtube videos show 2 tank and 2 healers 4man party... so, if I want to play as SIth Inquisitor DPS, probably I wont find group, right?[/b] [b] [/b] [b]Thank you for the help![/b] [/quote] the ideal 4 man is 1 tank 1 heal 2 dps, whether 2 3 or 4 people are players or some are companions under ai control to fill a gap. double tank double heal is going to severly lack dps. 4 dps or 3 dps and a healer will have some people dieing a bit im sure but would be just as doable due to insane dps. (well no bosses without someone being tankable) also remember every class has 2 specialties, inquisitors are the healer, but can also be a meelee dps, warriors can be juggernaut tanks or dual wielding meelee dps, imperial agents on the other hand are snipers or up close dps, and the bounty hunter can be nasty dps or dps tank. [/b][/quote]
Haven't they usually shown this beakdown of classes? (Republic examples used)
Spot 1) Main Tank (Usually Trooper)
Spot 2) Main Healer (Consular/Smuggler)
Spot 3) Secondary Tank (Jedi)
Spot 4) Secondary Healer (Smuggler/Consular)
DPS and CC have been group tasks as demonstrated in videos.
I am concerned about the limitation on group size in TOR. This will be a bad feature if there is no way to group easily with more than four people. The 6 man group has been a flexible tool, and though it can be a bummer to fill those groups sometimes, for people who have more than 3 friends there better be some way to not have to say, "sorry, guess you have to go do class story while we run this." It doesn't have to be there at launch, but sometime in the future this will have to be addressed I think or the game could suffer.
You can say this about any group size.
If you have 7 friends and try to run a 5 man what do you ?
If you have 9 friends what do you do?
Its a case of "cant please everyone" now I agree 4 is a low number but it is a number that can work quite nicely if the content is designed right.
Good point, however, I have my wife and my three teenage kids, we all play every mmo together and have always been able to group. This 4 man group size thing is the one and only thing so far that may keep me away from ToR. And this is not a preference thing or me complaing for no reason, My family does everything together, we would like to continue that.
The standard 6 man group size that every MMO I know of has used for years seems to have worked well for evey game, makes ZERO since to me for them to go with 4.
I would personally like to see six man teams instead of four, but I can live with four so no big deal. The content seems to be built around a four man team anyways so complaining about it now won't do us much good. Now if play testing and comments from the players AFTER going live tells the Devs that the team size needs to go up, then I am fairly certain it will. The Dev Team seems to actually be listening to the players this way quite a bit.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
If you have 7 friends and try to run a 5 man what do you ?
If you have 9 friends what do you do?
Its a case of "cant please everyone" now I agree 4 is a low number but it is a number that can work quite nicely if the content is designed right.
Good point, however, I have my wife and my three teenage kids, we all play every mmo together and have always been able to group. This 4 man group size thing is the one and only thing so far that may keep me away from ToR. And this is not a preference thing or me complaing for no reason, My family does everything together, we would like to continue that.
The standard 6 man group size that every MMO I know of has used for years seems to have worked well for evey game, makes ZERO since to me for them to go with 4.
Kudos for being family oriented, I hope someday to have my own family group! It does seem like a pretty small reason to not play the game at all, though. However, I do feel your pain. I have 4 buddies I play with on a regular basis, and grouping is going to be a bit of a pickle. Our potential solution is to just guild up right away and mix and match with guildies.
On the plus side, getting a small raid group has never been easier with the 8-16 man raid sizes. 8 man is just 3 group members away for guys like us.
Four would be fine if four didn't actually mean 2.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by GMan3 I would personally like to see six man teams instead of four, but I can live with four so no big deal. The content seems to be built around a four man team anyways so complaining about it now won't do us much good. Now if play testing and comments from the players AFTER going live tells the Devs that the team size needs to go up, then I am fairly certain it will. The Dev Team seems to actually be listening to the players this way quite a bit.
I hope you're right.
Several posts have addressed this topic as being something to bring up post-launch. Is this launch delay paranoia?
Good point, however, I have my wife and my three teenage kids, we all play every mmo together and have always been able to group. This 4 man group size thing is the one and only thing so far that may keep me away from ToR. And this is not a preference thing or me complaing for no reason, My family does everything together, we would like to continue that.
The standard 6 man group size that every MMO I know of has used for years seems to have worked well for evey game, makes ZERO since to me for them to go with 4.
I am of a similiar situation. My Wife, three teenagers (13,17,18) have also played together for years. And we plan on playing ToR. I dont see how the group size for an instance would keep you away unless you only do groups together. The MMO part of it is a good way to meet other players/people and learn and expand on social skills. My oldest son isnt even in the same guild I am prefering a more hardcore playstyle. If you can run instance together, I envy you in that.
Im not sure what games you have played but the standard 6 man group? I do not think this is in anyway a standard.
I think the 4 man group is fine. Im interested in what the raid size might be.
I would personally like to see six man teams instead of four, but I can live with four so no big deal. The content seems to be built around a four man team anyways so complaining about it now won't do us much good. Now if play testing and comments from the players AFTER going live tells the Devs that the team size needs to go up, then I am fairly certain it will. The Dev Team seems to actually be listening to the players this way quite a bit.
I hope you're right.
Several posts have addressed this topic as being something to bring up post-launch. Is this launch delay paranoia?
Delay paranoia? Not at all. The simple fact is the Devs of any company are more inclined to listen to people paying playing a game than the general populace that is not paying them. Therefore if a bunch of players complain about a feature after it launches, then it is more likely to be looked at then if a bunch of non-players are "whining". Since I understand the reasoning behind this, I am not "wasting my breath" before I actually get to play the game.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Four would be fine if four didn't actually mean 2.
Actually on one of the featured articles on this website, they said that they couldn't bring out more than one companion in a group. So a group of 4 would still need at least 3 people, and if you have enough to fill out a full group you don't need companions at all.
Originally posted by Kaerigan Originally posted by azmundai Four would be fine if four didn't actually mean 2.
Well, that's up to the players, innit? Nobody's forcing you to bring your companions.
If it's possible, truly possible to 2 man these places, then 4 manning it is going to be so boring it won't be worth the time in all likelyhood. That's what has me worried.
Plus you think it's hard to find a tank now in games .. wait till all the good tanks meet all the good healers and just 2 man everything. This could actually be great for games as it may actually force people to learn to tank because now the tanks will have absolutely no use for their niche dps spec that requires them to afk every 3 minutes and qq incessantly that they can't get groups.
Id honestly prefer something more like 6 man groups with content that was hard enough that most people, myself included, couldn't complete it the first few times through.
I doubt that is what we are going to get though. It looks to me like we are going to get content that 4 people can sleep through and most smart DUOs can clear their first time through.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by rygard49 Originally posted by azmundai Four would be fine if four didn't actually mean 2.
Actually on one of the featured articles on this website, they said that they couldn't bring out more than one companion in a group. So a group of 4 would still need at least 3 people, and if you have enough to fill out a full group you don't need companions at all.
Well, that's good news. Thanks.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Good point, however, I have my wife and my three teenage kids, we all play every mmo together and have always been able to group. This 4 man group size thing is the one and only thing so far that may keep me away from ToR. And this is not a preference thing or me complaing for no reason, My family does everything together, we would like to continue that.
The standard 6 man group size that every MMO I know of has used for years seems to have worked well for evey game, makes ZERO since to me for them to go with 4.
I am of a similiar situation. My Wife, three teenagers (13,17,18) have also played together for years. And we plan on playing ToR. I dont see how the group size for an instance would keep you away unless you only do groups together. The MMO part of it is a good way to meet other players/people and learn and expand on social skills. My oldest son isnt even in the same guild I am prefering a more hardcore playstyle. If you can run instance together, I envy you in that.
Im not sure what games you have played but the standard 6 man group? I do not think this is in anyway a standard. -DAoC was 8 man, every other MMO I played had (ATLEAST) 6 man group size as well, EQ1, EQ2, SWG, Vanguard, Rift, Tabula Rasa, Aion, AoC, we, all five, grouped in every one of them. Thats enough MMOS to call it standard to me.
I think the 4 man group is fine. Im interested in what the raid size might be.
I own and run an MMA gym (www.prophecymma.com, <---shameless plug) and both of my sons teach there and my daughter and wife train with me as well, we get plenty of time socializing and meeting new people every day. When we finally get home each night and have time to sit down and game, we like to spend that time grouping together. We may be the exception to most people, that I understand and we realize we aren't going to force BIoware to change just for our five accounts, and thats not what I am trying to get.
Just commenting that the game looks great to us, but not being able to group together and enjoy gaming together is a very big deal to us (again, to us, maybe not to everyone else). We have pre-ordered two acounts to take a look at the actual workings of the game, if there turns out to be a way for us to either form two groups or raid or something, then we'll do that, if not, we will go onto some other game. That simple, and not raging, just our prefernce.
But, with all that said, I really wish they went with the standard 6 man group size.
Give a man a bag of gold and he will complain how heavy it is.
Mo' money, mo' problems.
The more I think about group size, the less concerned I am. My buddies all play at different times, so this really just means I'll have less problems filling out a group when they aren't around. Which means more time spent doing fun things and less spamming a chat channel (unless they do instance queueing).
I am concerned about the limitation on group size in TOR. This will be a bad feature if there is no way to group easily with more than four people. The 6 man group has been a flexible tool, and though it can be a bummer to fill those groups sometimes, for people who have more than 3 friends there better be some way to not have to say, "sorry, guess you have to go do class story while we run this." It doesn't have to be there at launch, but sometime in the future this will have to be addressed I think or the game could suffer.
ONLY 4? Yeah I'd be worried too, this makes it sound like the content is so easy that this is the only way they can make it remotely challenging, or this limits it too only 3 people watching 1 person do the content instead of 5 players watching 1 other player do the group content. Either way this sounds like a co-op game not an mmo.
I am concerned about the limitation on group size in TOR. This will be a bad feature if there is no way to group easily with more than four people. The 6 man group has been a flexible tool, and though it can be a bummer to fill those groups sometimes, for people who have more than 3 friends there better be some way to not have to say, "sorry, guess you have to go do class story while we run this." It doesn't have to be there at launch, but sometime in the future this will have to be addressed I think or the game could suffer.
ONLY 4? Yeah I'd be worried too, this makes it sound like the content is so easy that this is the only way they can make it remotely challenging, or this limits it too only 3 people watching 1 person do the content instead of 5 players watching 1 other player do the group content. Either way this sounds like a co-op game not an mmo.
Nope what it means is that's the way they designed it and not much more, if they wanted to make the difficulty scale to 6 or 8 people they could easily do so, that's just a matter of A: adding more mobs or B: uping the difficulty of mob AI.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
Comments
You said "severly lack dps", but another think I don't get is... they are saying that Tank/Healer are going to do almost the same amount DPS as pure DPS class... so, why would they need a pure DPS class if would be better having another extra heal or extra dps?
Probably I'm wrong, but I read in swtor forum somethink like it.
Sorry about the poor English, thank you again!
The thing about a DPS class (in most games) is that even if a tank can do almost as good damage in normal situations, you will still miss out on the criticals, which is where a DPS excels. Hit for hit the damage may only be 10% difference, but when a critical is hit and the DPS doubles his damage on that attack, that can be the difference in a hard fight more often than not.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I have a feeling that the criticals will not be what sets them apart. I have a feeling utlility and cc will be.
[quote][i]Originally posted by neorandom[/i] [b][quote] [i]Originally posted by cybersrs[/i] [b]Hello![/b] [b]Could someone help me please...[/b] [b]Normally Youtube videos show 2 tank and 2 healers 4man party... so, if I want to play as SIth Inquisitor DPS, probably I wont find group, right?[/b] [b] [/b] [b]Thank you for the help![/b] [/quote] the ideal 4 man is 1 tank 1 heal 2 dps, whether 2 3 or 4 people are players or some are companions under ai control to fill a gap. double tank double heal is going to severly lack dps. 4 dps or 3 dps and a healer will have some people dieing a bit im sure but would be just as doable due to insane dps. (well no bosses without someone being tankable) also remember every class has 2 specialties, inquisitors are the healer, but can also be a meelee dps, warriors can be juggernaut tanks or dual wielding meelee dps, imperial agents on the other hand are snipers or up close dps, and the bounty hunter can be nasty dps or dps tank. [/b][/quote]
Haven't they usually shown this beakdown of classes? (Republic examples used)
Spot 1) Main Tank (Usually Trooper)
Spot 2) Main Healer (Consular/Smuggler)
Spot 3) Secondary Tank (Jedi)
Spot 4) Secondary Healer (Smuggler/Consular)
DPS and CC have been group tasks as demonstrated in videos.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Good point, however, I have my wife and my three teenage kids, we all play every mmo together and have always been able to group. This 4 man group size thing is the one and only thing so far that may keep me away from ToR. And this is not a preference thing or me complaing for no reason, My family does everything together, we would like to continue that.
The standard 6 man group size that every MMO I know of has used for years seems to have worked well for evey game, makes ZERO since to me for them to go with 4.
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
I was starting to feel alone. Thanks for that post Quicksand, I don't feel like I am the lone guy screaming into the darkness anymore
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I would personally like to see six man teams instead of four, but I can live with four so no big deal. The content seems to be built around a four man team anyways so complaining about it now won't do us much good. Now if play testing and comments from the players AFTER going live tells the Devs that the team size needs to go up, then I am fairly certain it will. The Dev Team seems to actually be listening to the players this way quite a bit.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Kudos for being family oriented, I hope someday to have my own family group! It does seem like a pretty small reason to not play the game at all, though. However, I do feel your pain. I have 4 buddies I play with on a regular basis, and grouping is going to be a bit of a pickle. Our potential solution is to just guild up right away and mix and match with guildies.
On the plus side, getting a small raid group has never been easier with the 8-16 man raid sizes. 8 man is just 3 group members away for guys like us.
Four would be fine if four didn't actually mean 2.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Several posts have addressed this topic as being something to bring up post-launch. Is this launch delay paranoia?
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I am of a similiar situation. My Wife, three teenagers (13,17,18) have also played together for years. And we plan on playing ToR. I dont see how the group size for an instance would keep you away unless you only do groups together. The MMO part of it is a good way to meet other players/people and learn and expand on social skills. My oldest son isnt even in the same guild I am prefering a more hardcore playstyle. If you can run instance together, I envy you in that.
Im not sure what games you have played but the standard 6 man group? I do not think this is in anyway a standard.
I think the 4 man group is fine. Im interested in what the raid size might be.
Well, that's up to the players, innit? Nobody's forcing you to bring your companions.
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
Delay paranoia? Not at all. The simple fact is the Devs of any company are more inclined to listen to people paying playing a game than the general populace that is not paying them. Therefore if a bunch of players complain about a feature after it launches, then it is more likely to be looked at then if a bunch of non-players are "whining". Since I understand the reasoning behind this, I am not "wasting my breath" before I actually get to play the game.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Actually on one of the featured articles on this website, they said that they couldn't bring out more than one companion in a group. So a group of 4 would still need at least 3 people, and if you have enough to fill out a full group you don't need companions at all.
If it's possible, truly possible to 2 man these places, then 4 manning it is going to be so boring it won't be worth the time in all likelyhood. That's what has me worried.
Plus you think it's hard to find a tank now in games .. wait till all the good tanks meet all the good healers and just 2 man everything. This could actually be great for games as it may actually force people to learn to tank because now the tanks will have absolutely no use for their niche dps spec that requires them to afk every 3 minutes and qq incessantly that they can't get groups.
Id honestly prefer something more like 6 man groups with content that was hard enough that most people, myself included, couldn't complete it the first few times through.
I doubt that is what we are going to get though. It looks to me like we are going to get content that 4 people can sleep through and most smart DUOs can clear their first time through.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Well, that's good news. Thanks.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I own and run an MMA gym (www.prophecymma.com, <---shameless plug) and both of my sons teach there and my daughter and wife train with me as well, we get plenty of time socializing and meeting new people every day. When we finally get home each night and have time to sit down and game, we like to spend that time grouping together. We may be the exception to most people, that I understand and we realize we aren't going to force BIoware to change just for our five accounts, and thats not what I am trying to get.
Just commenting that the game looks great to us, but not being able to group together and enjoy gaming together is a very big deal to us (again, to us, maybe not to everyone else). We have pre-ordered two acounts to take a look at the actual workings of the game, if there turns out to be a way for us to either form two groups or raid or something, then we'll do that, if not, we will go onto some other game. That simple, and not raging, just our prefernce.
But, with all that said, I really wish they went with the standard 6 man group size.
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
raids are 8 and 16
Me and my friends, we are 6 total and i do not see a problem at all.
I dont mind sitting out a dungeon to do some story mode, raise my crafting or pvp with my other friend while the others do instances.
People see problems everywhere, seriously.
Give a man a bag of gold and he will complain how heavy it is.
If you are 6 friends make 2 more friends and you will have 2 groups!
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
My mom?
Mo' money, mo' problems.
The more I think about group size, the less concerned I am. My buddies all play at different times, so this really just means I'll have less problems filling out a group when they aren't around. Which means more time spent doing fun things and less spamming a chat channel (unless they do instance queueing).
ONLY 4? Yeah I'd be worried too, this makes it sound like the content is so easy that this is the only way they can make it remotely challenging, or this limits it too only 3 people watching 1 person do the content instead of 5 players watching 1 other player do the group content. Either way this sounds like a co-op game not an mmo.
Nope what it means is that's the way they designed it and not much more, if they wanted to make the difficulty scale to 6 or 8 people they could easily do so, that's just a matter of A: adding more mobs or B: uping the difficulty of mob AI.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
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