Well, OP do have a point but I kinda like my own reality... Maybe it is just the rather large Mohito I am drinking while writing this whos speaking of course....
Yeah, we have no real clue if TOR will fail and being somewhat unoriginal is probably an advantage for most people. Most people here are on the other habd pretty hardcore MMO players and I have a feeling TOR will just like Wow be more popular with the average player than the MMO fans.
Wow is not that popular on this site either.
Lokes Mohito that he learned to make when he was drunk in Havannah:
Put some cane sugar in the bottle of the class, add a drop of rhum (Havannah club 3 anos is best) and add a few mint leaves. Crush the mint leaves. Add a large amount of Rhum and some pressed lemon (not lime, the bartender at the place that invented it said it was a nono and it taste better with lemon). stir it and then fill up with carbonated water, add a straw and some ice.
I remember being flamed for saying Rift will suck, then at launch one million people bought it, two months later 10-20 thousand still play (at best)
People are still drinking the Bioware koolaid even if Bioware is nothing more than brand name for an EA branch and we know how EA treats its games.
Rift would already be cancelled if it had those numbers. But of course a link of actual numbers would help us...
And comparing Trion with Bioware is really wrong, at least since Van Canegheden quit Trion 3 years ago, he is a genius (He invented "Heroes of might and magic" to mention one of his over 100 games). Bioware have a lot more fans than *Trion, most people here had never even heard of them before Rift while everyone knew Bioware before TOR.
I agree with you that many people, particulary in this forum, have been mostly negative for this game. I will try the game out but I'm one of those that has been very skeptical. For me it looks exactly like my paths to Rift and Aion, new games that promise many things but on paper they are the same. While these games provide some fun for a while at the beggining, for me they just get old very fast. I do believe this game will sell super well because of its pedigree, bioware and SW, nothing more
Most posters here are delusional on one side of the fence or the other. If any of the newer games excited me all that much or got some sort of emotional rise out of me I'm sure I'd fall on one side of the delusional spectrum myself (the closests is NWN but I know cryptic too well to get myself all bent out of shape for that one).
The problem seems to be that people can't find the middle ground. TOR is not a game I'm likely to play, but not only do I doubt it will fail, I'm pretty sure it will offer some good game play. Just not the game play that is my cup of tea. It appears that with TOR and many other games, people either have nothing good to say about it or can't hear anything bad about it.
I imagine TOR will be a fairly good success, I have my doubts about people handing over money month after month for that kind of game play, but there are enough bioware fans alone to probably keep them safe for at least the next 10 years and I'm sure that some new players will also fall in love with that particular style.
I agree about NWN :-) lol. Unfortunately, your more reasonable balanced outlook is not the norm on this site, but thank you fo the good post. I pretty much agree word for word with everything you wrote. Just out of curiousity, what MMOs up until this point have you enjoyed?
I enjoyed EQ, SWG (for a while then got burnt out), Vanguard, LoTRO, and occasionally STO as frustrating a ride as that has been.
OK, now I am a pretty versatile guy with gaming. I like PVP, like PVE, like solo, like (and prefer) grouping, like Sandbox (prefer open worlds like Oblivion), like themepark,etc. Now I understand if your only type of game was EQ and SWG and you were initially hoping for that here (as there are a lot of disgruntled SWG vets here),, but if you liked LOTRO which was basically an enhanced WOW with better graphics (poor animations...but I liked that game) and better story, why would you find that SWTOR not your cup of tea?
Actually for the same reasons I got a bit bored of LoTRO and EQ. While I liked certain things about SWG, I'm not looking for an exact remake. My biggest personal dislike of SWTOR is that for me it is going to control my personal story too much, in the sense that I'd rather have no story than too much (does that make sense). I like certain freedoms about sandboxes, like no species/class restrictions or only moderate penalties for wearing different armor or using different weapons, so there are some limitations on SWTOR that are not perfect for me.
STO actually appeals to me at times because of the fact that my choices for customizing species, class, ship, crew have so few penalties and though the content is very much lacking (epecially for us Klingon fans) what is there doesn't get in the way of our own RP stories.
None of this of course makes SWTOR a bad game or a potential failure, it just doesn't appeal to me on any passionate level.
Totally understand. Hey, if they make a multiplayer Oblivion, Im gonna call you to play with me lol
Ha, well next thing I'm interested in other than NWN is Kingdom of Amalur or what ever the MMO ends up being titled.
I have no doubts that TOR will bring in tons of money. As a financial investment it is already a sounding succes.
As a MMO it has failed already though. WoW in Space on Rails does not make a good mmo. It is just carbon copy with even more rails than ever before. By the time people realize how shallow it is Bioware / LA will already be laughing all the way to the bank.
The sad thing is that they will make so much money that it will inspire others to follow the same route and we get even more shallow games.
Every player with the same class will be limited to same story. Game is more of a glorified single player than massive. Even space is a rail shooter.
For every new MMO I have seen released you see fans charging in to attack every piece of criticism on these forums calling people haters etc. Then a few months after most of the same people are raging against the game for all their obvious faults.
Six months from now a lot of the fans will have left TOR already..
There are dozens of repeat threads here regarding how unoriginal SWTOR, how it will fail like game X, how it is WOW with lightsabers, etc. However.....
*snipped*
People are going to have different views on games. If you do not want to read any kind of negativity why come here? I am sure there are plenty of forums that have people that will agree 100% with everything you feel about SWTOR.
You spent some time and made your big list of 7...why? Do you think this will change anything on these forums? Ever? This same post has been made about these forums many times and still no one has managed to change MMORPG.com in to a hand holding hippy commune.
I could answer every one of your numbers with comments of my own (considering most of your post is nothing but opinion and a made up percentage) that would be just as valid but why bother? You have made up your mind as to the way things are. Im ok with that. Just don't expect everyone else to agree with you.
I'm here posting because this started out being a game my kids were totally interested in getting, after finding out it's kotor they lost all interest as to them kotor games are the most boring games evar.
Me though i loved both kotor games played though each one several times and honestly I'm not to pleased to read that we have to pay a monthly sub for a single player game (which admit tio yourself, it is).
This is a linear game as the kotor's before it, i will grab this game, but I'll wait a month or more after launch and get it on sale for half the price or less, or wait for it to go f2p.
The mess this game is going to be after launch when peeps realize this is not what they were expecting is going to be loud and ugly, i know kotor has a large following but fear it's a very small percentage of the big mmo picture.
Stock up on ear plugs or popcorn, depending on your forum interests.
I have no doubts that TOR will bring in tons of money. As a financial investment it is already a sounding succes.
As a MMO it has failed already though. WoW in Space on Rails does not make a good mmo. It is just carbon copy with even more rails than ever before. By the time people realize how shallow it is Bioware / LA will already be laughing all the way to the bank.
The sad thing is that they will make so much money that it will inspire others to follow the same route and we get even more shallow games.
Every player with the same class will be limited to same story. Game is more of a glorified single player than massive. Even space is a rail shooter.
For every new MMO I have seen released you see fans charging in to attack every piece of criticism on these forums calling people haters etc. Then a few months after most of the same people are raging against the game for all their obvious faults.
Six months from now a lot of the fans will have left TOR already..
Don't make the assumption that we here are average MMO players, or Wow would have a lot higher ratings here.
I also doubt that TOR will be popular here, my money is on WoDO or GW2 for that.
But I still think TOR will do fine, average players and fans that spends time on forums are different people.
3 years ago I said it will be the largest launch ever for a MMO it will have at least 3 million subs on launch day watch and mark these words or post again for those that naysay.....
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
For every new MMO I have seen released you see fans charging in to attack every piece of criticism on these forums calling people haters etc. Then a few months after most of the same people are raging against the game for all their obvious faults.
Fans will always protect their self created illussions of their high hopes. Personally I am here to bring balance to the discussion
I think you're a bit lost in your own reality there fella, either that or you're reading these forums with blinkers as there are just as many posts and threads with positive things to say about SWTOR here as there are negative. But as is the case on any forum those with negative views tend to be the most vocal and also tend to keep on repeating their nonsense.
Bear in mind that a project this huge was bound to spark debate.
Dude, the hate towards SWTOR got so big that new rules and moderation changes were put into place.
The first year was a total mess, seriously, SWG fanbois went rampant like crazy.
3 years ago I said it will be the largest launch ever for a MMO it will have at least 3 million subs on launch day watch and mark these words or post again for those that naysay.....
Not all of us are jaded, close minded, sandbox junkies. I'm old school from M59 to EQ circa 1999, but I despie the old school "I'm better and wiser" mentality so prevelant on this site. Sandbox games have their place in the genre, but they are NOT the holy grail of gaming. Raiding is an outdated, niche play style that serves no more purpose than to segregate the gaming population into haves and have nots. I think games can do quite well without any focus on crafting. Swimming is not a pre-requisite for me to buy and play an MMO. Housing is fun, but I'm not going to bitch for years on end till the developers give in and implement crappy and expensive houses. I am a firm believer that gameplay trumps graphics every single time.
3 years ago I said it will be the largest launch ever for a MMO it will have at least 3 million subs on launch day watch and mark these words or post again for those that naysay.....
So what, the majority is not right by nature.
There is no right or wrong when it comes to entertainment, people listen, watch, play what they want because they like it.
Not all of us are jaded, close minded, sandbox junkies. I'm old school from M59 to EQ circa 1999, but I despie the old school "I'm better and wiser" mentality so prevelant on this site. Sandbox games have their place in the genre, but they are NOT the holy grail of gaming. Raiding is an outdated, niche play style that serves no more purpose than to segregate the gaming population into haves and have nots. I think games can do quite well without any focus on crafting. Swimming is not a pre-requisite for me to buy and play an MMO. Housing is fun, but I'm not going to bitch for years on end till the developers give in and implement crappy and expensive houses. I am a firm believer that gameplay trumps graphics every single time.
Careful, they'll be coming for you en masse. They have ways of dealing with blasphemers like you.
What's that? (*wet splorch off-camera*)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Lot of it has to do with experience. What we've personally experienced, and what we've learned from it. In terms of SWTOR, it will have to go against a lot of that to succeed. It's possible, sure. Maybe there's even evidence to suggest it's likely. Still, some people are going to stick to what they've seen, MMO after MMO.. after MMO...
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Well I wouldn't call the Kotor story linear becuase of all the choice there is. Are there huge wide open environments like in Oblivion or WoW? No, but there is still plenty of choice in how the story plays out. I guess linear has a different definition in the MMO world than it does in the single player world. But you still get it, the story plus the wide open environments seems great.
I agree OP, but it is kind of futile to go against the grain. The flood of doom mongerers who proclaim their own flimsy based predictions as absolute truths without having played the game for a second and on top of that, think that they are able to speak for everyone is kind of amazing.
It kinda makes me lose interest in mmorpg.com, really. The interesting, well informed discussions are eclipsed by all the prejudiced and mostly unfounded dirt and the predictable retaliation it attracts. If everyone would just stop paying attention to all the badly informed, flame baiting threads it would be a heck of a lot better but I realize that is an impossible thing to ask for, hehe.
There are dozens of repeat threads here regarding how unoriginal SWTOR, how it will fail like game X, how it is WOW with lightsabers, etc. However.....
1) The Preorder process was a HUGE success for EA, selling out on multiple sites in just a few hours. I cannot EVER remember having to fight so hard just to get my preorder in except when I purchased my 4 ipad 2s for my family at 1:00am a few months back...that was worse.
2) I have never seen the volume of posts on a official forums move so fast other than some peaks with WOW. You post a thread and in less than a minute its down to the bottom of the first page. A thread here with 10 pages is like a thread there with 50 pages in a shorter period of time.
3) The lines at what I consider to be boring events events always seem to be huge or crammed, not exactly a sign that people arn't interested.
4) People here posting all these negative threads are forgetting how their opinion is about .05% or less of the population when compared against those people who will actually try the game out and don't follow these forums.
5) Just about all my gaming friends in my facebook, from previous guilds, etc are going to try this game. Most of them will stay as subs even if it was just wow with lightsabers because that is what they like. Regardless, those following the game that don't have ulterior motives know this game is so much more than wow with lightsabers even if at first glance it plays like it.
6) With the logic here, any game that borrows and enhances any previous game will fail and any game with what some consider 'innovation' are going to succeed. Heard that before with previous released games that underachieved.
7) For some reason the posters here look at an outdated game play build months from release and draw conclusions when they haven't tried it...which contradicts those dozens and dozens of impressions that many fans here have posted with the positive impression that those who PLAY the game seem to have. The difference is that when fans post these impressions, they organize them into one thread, often becoming stickies. For some reason this site likes when a new thread is started with these negative generalizations. That creates that negative perception those visiting from other sites far too often see.
Now I don't know if this game will succeed, maybe it will fail, but I believe based on their cautious approach of not releasing info until everything is worked out and ensuring that we will see one of the most polished offerings at release (based on what is within scope) is a good sign of things to come. Also, I strongly believe that all this ridiculous negativity is a sign of good things to come for this game. I'll post here next year if it fails how I was wrong, will you???
1) There are some people here posting that it will "fail", others posting that it will be a "huge" success. Both sides are assuming facts not yet in evidence. With service based offerings, and MMO's would fall into that category, the major factor in determining financial success is usualy recurring business (i.e. long term retention). It's very tough to determine how well an MMO will do overall based upon initial sales, let alone pre-orders.
I shouldn't need to remind anyone of the numbers of MMO's that sold quite well which had horrible retention numbers and ultimately did very poorly in the long run. Vanguard anyone?
The fact that it is doing well in pre-orders certainly should make Bioware happy....but it's hardly a surprise to anyone, including most of the games staunchest critics. It's kind of like calling a baseball game before they even finnish playing the 1st inning. A better measure of it's financial success will be how it stands 6 months AFTER release. Frankly I don't have any idea of what that might be....nor do most other folks here...especialy those of us not in Beta. Even folks in the know at Bioware/EA are mostly only taking educated guesses.
2) Volume of business, while certainly a measure of financial success, is not actualy direct measure of quality in many instances. Walmart is by far, the largest and most successfull supermarket/dept store in the U.S. Is it also the highest quality one in either of those categories? McDonalds is one of the highest volume and largest earning resturaunt in the U.S. Does anyone here wish to try to make the case that it is also the highest quality dining?
Most of the critics here have not made arguements about the potential financial success or popularity of TOR. They've made arguements about thier perception of the quality of the offering.
3) MMO's are creative products. Just like art or literature or even cuisine they are subject to individual tastes. One man's crap is anothers ambrosia. So almost all discussion about TOR's relative quality as an MMO or lack there-of have to be viewed through that lens.
4) There have been articles and posts here by fans of TOR that have attempted to portray it as the 2nd coming of gaming. That it will revolutionize and "change" the industry. The largest volume of criticism I've seen here is a counter to that claim..... not that it will a crap game....just that it's not doing anything all that new or exciting in terms of features it bring to the table. That's not an arguement that it will be a failure or unpopular...just an arguement that won't bring much in the way of postive advancements to the industry as a whole.
5) There have been articles and posts here by fans claiming that the design decisions Bioware has made are THE way to make a quality MMO. Many of the posts here, including most of my own, take issue with the idea that it is THE (only) way to go. It may certainly be A viable way to go....that does not mean there aren't other ways that can work equaly as well.
6) Why do you actualy care. If you are excited to play, then why should it matter that other folks view it in a negative light. Unless you are responsible for marketing the game or have stock in EA/Bioware....I can't see how you would care how many people dislike it...unless you are worried they might cancel it before or shortly after release....which simply isn't going to happen.
I'll let you in on a dirty secret. I actualy enjoy watching many "Made for Sci Fi" movies. They are horrible, I know....and they are pretty much a running joke among Science Fiction fans and movie critics alike.... but I still enjoy them...and as long as I do, I pretty much don't care what anyone else thinks about them.
If you look on these forums, you will see that it is mostly GW2 fanbois flaming SW:ToR fanbois...and vice vera. I have never seen so much nerd rage between two games. I hope they are both successful.
If you look on these forums, you will see that it is mostly GW2 fanbois flaming SW:ToR fanbois...and vice vera. I have never seen so much nerd rage between two games. I hope they are both successful.
If you look on these forums, you will see that it is mostly GW2 fanbois flaming SW:ToR fanbois...and vice vera. I have never seen so much nerd rage between two games. I hope they are both successful.
Sadly, it's been like this ever since WoW was released. If anything it's probably worse now than it was then. Whatever the most hyped 2 games are, there's always a neverending flamewar between the two. The odd thing is it always comes down to 2 games, even if there are more than 2 being released that year.
There are dozens of repeat threads here regarding how unoriginal SWTOR, how it will fail like game X, how it is WOW with lightsabers, etc. However.....
1) The Preorder process was a HUGE success for EA, selling out on multiple sites in just a few hours. I cannot EVER remember having to fight so hard just to get my preorder in except when I purchased my 4 ipad 2s for my family at 1:00am a few months back...that was worse.
2) I have never seen the volume of posts on a official forums move so fast other than some peaks with WOW. You post a thread and in less than a minute its down to the bottom of the first page. A thread here with 10 pages is like a thread there with 50 pages in a shorter period of time.
3) The lines at what I consider to be boring events events always seem to be huge or crammed, not exactly a sign that people arn't interested.
4) People here posting all these negative threads are forgetting how their opinion is about .05% or less of the population when compared against those people who will actually try the game out and don't follow these forums.
5) Just about all my gaming friends in my facebook, from previous guilds, etc are going to try this game. Most of them will stay as subs even if it was just wow with lightsabers because that is what they like. Regardless, those following the game that don't have ulterior motives know this game is so much more than wow with lightsabers even if at first glance it plays like it.
6) With the logic here, any game that borrows and enhances any previous game will fail and any game with what some consider 'innovation' are going to succeed. Heard that before with previous released games that underachieved.
7) For some reason the posters here look at an outdated game play build months from release and draw conclusions when they haven't tried it...which contradicts those dozens and dozens of impressions that many fans here have posted with the positive impression that those who PLAY the game seem to have. The difference is that when fans post these impressions, they organize them into one thread, often becoming stickies. For some reason this site likes when a new thread is started with these negative generalizations. That creates that negative perception those visiting from other sites far too often see.
Now I don't know if this game will succeed, maybe it will fail, but I believe based on their cautious approach of not releasing info until everything is worked out and ensuring that we will see one of the most polished offerings at release (based on what is within scope) is a good sign of things to come. Also, I strongly believe that all this ridiculous negativity is a sign of good things to come for this game. I'll post here next year if it fails how I was wrong, will you???
this is an mmorpg site... I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues.
Comments
Well, OP do have a point but I kinda like my own reality... Maybe it is just the rather large Mohito I am drinking while writing this whos speaking of course....
Yeah, we have no real clue if TOR will fail and being somewhat unoriginal is probably an advantage for most people. Most people here are on the other habd pretty hardcore MMO players and I have a feeling TOR will just like Wow be more popular with the average player than the MMO fans.
Wow is not that popular on this site either.
Lokes Mohito that he learned to make when he was drunk in Havannah:
Put some cane sugar in the bottle of the class, add a drop of rhum (Havannah club 3 anos is best) and add a few mint leaves. Crush the mint leaves. Add a large amount of Rhum and some pressed lemon (not lime, the bartender at the place that invented it said it was a nono and it taste better with lemon). stir it and then fill up with carbonated water, add a straw and some ice.
You are welcome, this stuff is gold.
Rift would already be cancelled if it had those numbers. But of course a link of actual numbers would help us...
And comparing Trion with Bioware is really wrong, at least since Van Canegheden quit Trion 3 years ago, he is a genius (He invented "Heroes of might and magic" to mention one of his over 100 games). Bioware have a lot more fans than *Trion, most people here had never even heard of them before Rift while everyone knew Bioware before TOR.
I agree with you that many people, particulary in this forum, have been mostly negative for this game. I will try the game out but I'm one of those that has been very skeptical. For me it looks exactly like my paths to Rift and Aion, new games that promise many things but on paper they are the same. While these games provide some fun for a while at the beggining, for me they just get old very fast. I do believe this game will sell super well because of its pedigree, bioware and SW, nothing more
Ha, well next thing I'm interested in other than NWN is Kingdom of Amalur or what ever the MMO ends up being titled.
I have no doubts that TOR will bring in tons of money. As a financial investment it is already a sounding succes.
As a MMO it has failed already though. WoW in Space on Rails does not make a good mmo. It is just carbon copy with even more rails than ever before. By the time people realize how shallow it is Bioware / LA will already be laughing all the way to the bank.
The sad thing is that they will make so much money that it will inspire others to follow the same route and we get even more shallow games.
Every player with the same class will be limited to same story. Game is more of a glorified single player than massive. Even space is a rail shooter.
For every new MMO I have seen released you see fans charging in to attack every piece of criticism on these forums calling people haters etc. Then a few months after most of the same people are raging against the game for all their obvious faults.
Six months from now a lot of the fans will have left TOR already..
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CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
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People are going to have different views on games. If you do not want to read any kind of negativity why come here? I am sure there are plenty of forums that have people that will agree 100% with everything you feel about SWTOR.
You spent some time and made your big list of 7...why? Do you think this will change anything on these forums? Ever? This same post has been made about these forums many times and still no one has managed to change MMORPG.com in to a hand holding hippy commune.
I could answer every one of your numbers with comments of my own (considering most of your post is nothing but opinion and a made up percentage) that would be just as valid but why bother? You have made up your mind as to the way things are. Im ok with that. Just don't expect everyone else to agree with you.
I'm here posting because this started out being a game my kids were totally interested in getting, after finding out it's kotor they lost all interest as to them kotor games are the most boring games evar.
Me though i loved both kotor games played though each one several times and honestly I'm not to pleased to read that we have to pay a monthly sub for a single player game (which admit tio yourself, it is).
This is a linear game as the kotor's before it, i will grab this game, but I'll wait a month or more after launch and get it on sale for half the price or less, or wait for it to go f2p.
The mess this game is going to be after launch when peeps realize this is not what they were expecting is going to be loud and ugly, i know kotor has a large following but fear it's a very small percentage of the big mmo picture.
Stock up on ear plugs or popcorn, depending on your forum interests.
Don't make the assumption that we here are average MMO players, or Wow would have a lot higher ratings here.
I also doubt that TOR will be popular here, my money is on WoDO or GW2 for that.
But I still think TOR will do fine, average players and fans that spends time on forums are different people.
3 years ago I said it will be the largest launch ever for a MMO it will have at least 3 million subs on launch day watch and mark these words or post again for those that naysay.....
Really the most important thing said.
Fans will always protect their self created illussions of their high hopes. Personally I am here to bring balance to the discussion
Dude, the hate towards SWTOR got so big that new rules and moderation changes were put into place.
The first year was a total mess, seriously, SWG fanbois went rampant like crazy.
So what, the majority is not right by nature.
Not all of us are jaded, close minded, sandbox junkies. I'm old school from M59 to EQ circa 1999, but I despie the old school "I'm better and wiser" mentality so prevelant on this site. Sandbox games have their place in the genre, but they are NOT the holy grail of gaming. Raiding is an outdated, niche play style that serves no more purpose than to segregate the gaming population into haves and have nots. I think games can do quite well without any focus on crafting. Swimming is not a pre-requisite for me to buy and play an MMO. Housing is fun, but I'm not going to bitch for years on end till the developers give in and implement crappy and expensive houses. I am a firm believer that gameplay trumps graphics every single time.
There is no right or wrong when it comes to entertainment, people listen, watch, play what they want because they like it.
Taste is such a subjective thing, fun is too.
Careful, they'll be coming for you en masse. They have ways of dealing with blasphemers like you.
What's that? (*wet splorch off-camera*)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Lot of it has to do with experience. What we've personally experienced, and what we've learned from it. In terms of SWTOR, it will have to go against a lot of that to succeed. It's possible, sure. Maybe there's even evidence to suggest it's likely. Still, some people are going to stick to what they've seen, MMO after MMO.. after MMO...
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Well I wouldn't call the Kotor story linear becuase of all the choice there is. Are there huge wide open environments like in Oblivion or WoW? No, but there is still plenty of choice in how the story plays out. I guess linear has a different definition in the MMO world than it does in the single player world. But you still get it, the story plus the wide open environments seems great.
Everyone is.
I agree OP, but it is kind of futile to go against the grain. The flood of doom mongerers who proclaim their own flimsy based predictions as absolute truths without having played the game for a second and on top of that, think that they are able to speak for everyone is kind of amazing.
It kinda makes me lose interest in mmorpg.com, really. The interesting, well informed discussions are eclipsed by all the prejudiced and mostly unfounded dirt and the predictable retaliation it attracts. If everyone would just stop paying attention to all the badly informed, flame baiting threads it would be a heck of a lot better but I realize that is an impossible thing to ask for, hehe.
My brand new bloggity blog.
1) There are some people here posting that it will "fail", others posting that it will be a "huge" success. Both sides are assuming facts not yet in evidence. With service based offerings, and MMO's would fall into that category, the major factor in determining financial success is usualy recurring business (i.e. long term retention). It's very tough to determine how well an MMO will do overall based upon initial sales, let alone pre-orders.
I shouldn't need to remind anyone of the numbers of MMO's that sold quite well which had horrible retention numbers and ultimately did very poorly in the long run. Vanguard anyone?
The fact that it is doing well in pre-orders certainly should make Bioware happy....but it's hardly a surprise to anyone, including most of the games staunchest critics. It's kind of like calling a baseball game before they even finnish playing the 1st inning. A better measure of it's financial success will be how it stands 6 months AFTER release. Frankly I don't have any idea of what that might be....nor do most other folks here...especialy those of us not in Beta. Even folks in the know at Bioware/EA are mostly only taking educated guesses.
2) Volume of business, while certainly a measure of financial success, is not actualy direct measure of quality in many instances. Walmart is by far, the largest and most successfull supermarket/dept store in the U.S. Is it also the highest quality one in either of those categories? McDonalds is one of the highest volume and largest earning resturaunt in the U.S. Does anyone here wish to try to make the case that it is also the highest quality dining?
Most of the critics here have not made arguements about the potential financial success or popularity of TOR. They've made arguements about thier perception of the quality of the offering.
3) MMO's are creative products. Just like art or literature or even cuisine they are subject to individual tastes. One man's crap is anothers ambrosia. So almost all discussion about TOR's relative quality as an MMO or lack there-of have to be viewed through that lens.
4) There have been articles and posts here by fans of TOR that have attempted to portray it as the 2nd coming of gaming. That it will revolutionize and "change" the industry. The largest volume of criticism I've seen here is a counter to that claim..... not that it will a crap game....just that it's not doing anything all that new or exciting in terms of features it bring to the table. That's not an arguement that it will be a failure or unpopular...just an arguement that won't bring much in the way of postive advancements to the industry as a whole.
5) There have been articles and posts here by fans claiming that the design decisions Bioware has made are THE way to make a quality MMO. Many of the posts here, including most of my own, take issue with the idea that it is THE (only) way to go. It may certainly be A viable way to go....that does not mean there aren't other ways that can work equaly as well.
6) Why do you actualy care. If you are excited to play, then why should it matter that other folks view it in a negative light. Unless you are responsible for marketing the game or have stock in EA/Bioware....I can't see how you would care how many people dislike it...unless you are worried they might cancel it before or shortly after release....which simply isn't going to happen.
I'll let you in on a dirty secret. I actualy enjoy watching many "Made for Sci Fi" movies. They are horrible, I know....and they are pretty much a running joke among Science Fiction fans and movie critics alike.... but I still enjoy them...and as long as I do, I pretty much don't care what anyone else thinks about them.
If you look on these forums, you will see that it is mostly GW2 fanbois flaming SW:ToR fanbois...and vice vera. I have never seen so much nerd rage between two games. I hope they are both successful.
I'm with you. I plan on playing both.
Sadly, it's been like this ever since WoW was released. If anything it's probably worse now than it was then. Whatever the most hyped 2 games are, there's always a neverending flamewar between the two. The odd thing is it always comes down to 2 games, even if there are more than 2 being released that year.
this is an mmorpg site... I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues.