Beeing concerned about an aspect of a game doesn't mean I am trying to nitpick a particular section of the game I guess I was wrong when I thought I could post my personal opinion here without upsetting a certain kind of ppls.
I do aopriciate the info about the build in evasion moves tho and it actually gave me hope that the system will be Bette than I expected....even tho I think that if u offer active Eva u should stick with it and not cheap out with inactive Eva but its still better than what most other mmos offer and therefore a step in the right direction :-)
Regarding my concern about the balancing....well so what if the warrior can use a bow? Are u telling me balancing will not be a problem because all classes can use range attack?
If so than I'll have to say it would be the dumbest way ever to balance classes just make them all range attackers?.. seriously?..
I actually do not believe they will screw up balancing too much but your explanations that a warrior can use a bow is just dumb.
To be fare, I can see why you would think you were being called out since it was a responce to your concern. But as my post history can back up, I wasn't being a dick and I wasn't saying YOU I clearly said We as in the people that usually bring real information on the GW2 threads to back up our opinons and I also said THOSE that try to nitpick. I wasn't saying you in particular. Sorry if you took it that way. But in fareness on my part, you do seem to take what you want from our responces and still drive forth with your opinion without SEEMING to actually concidder what is there for you. Either way I'd say don't judge the game or the GW community before all the facts are there.
And BTW I am not upset in the slightest if you meant me. I couldn't care less if you or others don't play. i'll be there with bells on.
I think it is natural to worry about balance...just don't worry yourselves too much until the game actually comes out.
I would give any game 6 months after release before it will be close to balanced, or at least have I never seen a game close to balanced before that. 3 months at least after they raised the level cap.
But ANET is the best company on balancing online games out there. What will make GW2 so easy to balance is however the fact that items make very litttle impact on who wins the combat, games like Wow and Rift have very hard to be balanced because of that.
For everyone who has trashed this games combat from only having the insight of this article, you should do some more research. As explained by many members prior, movement, dodging, weapon swapping, etc. is NOT the only improvement. You have profession crossing effects (Ranger shoots arrows into Eles firewall to create fire arrows, etc.). There is also something I have never seen before: new skills w/every new weapon you equip. I could go on, but the main point I am trying to convey here: combat WILL be different. Yes, other MMOs have used some of these aspects of combat, but Anet has taken these ideas, and perfected (some may not agree perfected but at least polished.) them. The combat is very fluid, but also exciting and fast paced. I played the demo at Pax 2011. Also, in what game MMO have you seen REAL player skill implemented into the successfulness of combat? No, not gear, not you player level, not how much damage your skills deal, but how you actually play the game. How you dodge, position, etc. Player skill is emphasized greatly. In low level areas, high level chars power is downscaled, so that they cant one shot mobs and ruin the fun for other players. They will have to actually DO SOMETHING in combat to win. Combat is not the only characteristic this game is using to try to make something different. Dynamic events (PLEASE someone notify me of a MMO that uses this concept) replacing quests. Personal storyline, persistent world (yes all MMOs use this), no holy trinity. NO healers, tanks, DPS, etc. You actually have to work as a team to get something done. Omg! In short: Anet IS making something different. Not genre-changing (because people will always come up with excuses to not like it). Do some research on this game and what Anet is creating, and try to say that this game is just another MMO. ..And lets not forgot THIS GAME IS FREE TO PLAY. What other free to play game could EVER live up to GW or GW2?
I am looking forward to this. Im pretty well done with the majority of whats currently out. I just hope it doesnt let me down like the last couple games I got. (Rift, FFXIV)
In this week's Guild Wars 2 column, David North takes a peek at the combat in one of gaming's most hotly anticipated titles. There a whole lot of different factors that make combat in an MMO either special or forgettable, and David thinks he has a grasp on which is which.
Guild Wars for me was a bit of a breath of fresh air when looking at the overall pace of combat. It wasn’t perfect but it was much faster than other games. There were enemies all over, and decisions during battle had to be made quickly as we faced large groups of enemies, not a group of 3 or 4 enemies at a time that just had a massive amount of health. This was nice as it added more action to the gameplay and kept me moving. For Guild Wars 2 this is pushed even further as we see elements of combat revisited and worked on in a new, fresh way for the genre.
I noticed you praise and indulge fast paced combat system and the fact that GW2 has indeed fast paced combat.
None said that having good or great pace on a combat system is a plus. Take Oblvion for example. It has a realistic running speed for characters . There are some battles u meet,quest encounters and stuff where the battle is like 5 vs 12 or 10 vs 20 etc etc
During the battle you fight an enemy but also u have to observe and understand what's going on around you, hows the battle going,are there anay allies in harsg situation? Can u do something to help them? Maybe u should ignore the mob u fight currently and run to help your ally guy over there in the corner who's surounded by 3-4 enemies and is almost dead ?
All these... little and unimportant things, u can barely observe in oblivion's slow to normal lets say paced combat speed since u have to use spells ,manually block or even dodge attacks ,attack the enemy u fight etc etc
All these things as you understand is the definition of tactical factor in a combat system.
If u can explain us though in big battles in GW 2 though, how the player can realise how the combat goes around him,what's going on ,who attacks what if the combat system is (which it is), alot faster than oblivion's. No need to mention the chaos and disorientation rgar is gonnna occure in big pvp battles.
I could bring as an example also, huge fights 150 vs 250 in Mount and blade warband ,where due to the fact that pace is even bit slower than oblivion's , you can tell / understand what's exactly going on during the fight which side needs help, which band of soldiers need ssupport etc etc and we are talking here about 300+ mobs fighting around u where it is the definition of hell.
So my friend David dont think that fast paced combat is a plus to tactical. from my personal; expirience its a minor in most cases and it removes from tactical depth not adds anything.
You cannot tell me this is anything but a truth-telling review.
By this, I mean the hype is entirely false and just that-- pure hype.
This game sounds no different than any other MMORPG, with nothing new added to the scene. Fanboys can puff it up all they want, but moving while casting spells isn't anything special or new.
Guild Wars 2 has so much overwhelming hype, I truly do think it will probably be one of the most successful MMORPG's ever--- in terms of 1st month box sales. After they purchase the game, everyone will be severely disappointed that all the hype was entirely smoke and mirrors in their minds, only to realize that those of us who say "Pure Hype" were right all along.
This game will certainly NOT revolutionize the industry like so many believe. Sorry. NEXT!
You cannot tell me this is anything but a truth-telling review.
By this, I mean the hype is entirely false and just that-- pure hype.
This game sounds no different than any other MMORPG, with nothing new added to the scene. Fanboys can puff it up all they want, but moving while casting spells isn't anything special or new.
Guild Wars 2 has so much overwhelming hype, I truly do think it will probably be one of the most successful MMORPG's ever--- in terms of 1st month box sales. After they purchase the game, everyone will be severely disappointed that all the hype was entirely smoke and mirrors in their minds, only to realize that those of us who say "Pure Hype" were right all along.
This game will certainly NOT revolutionize the industry like so many believe. Sorry. NEXT!
I have to ask, have you played it? At all? Have you played the first one? At all?
Both games have very different combat to what you find in most MMOs currently. You can play this and see it quite clearly. So moving & casting isn't a big deal to you. That's not the only thing that makes up combat in this game. I'd highly suggest getting some actual experience on the game, before passing it off. Or, if you're one of those gamers who absolutely hated GW1, then I'm not sure why you are coming here expecting the sequel to be completely different.
That said;
I do agree that this game has been overhyped, EVERY new MMO falls victim to this. EVERY. LAST. ONE. Look at TOR, that too is being severely overhyped. Both games are being praised as 'changing the industry!' Both games have been called the 2nd coming of the new age of MMOs. Anyone with half a brain knows this is highly unlikely, however a select few fanatics take the marketting hype and blow it out of proportion.
A lot of it has to do with the advertisements being blown out of proportion on these forums. The fanatical fans get a scrap of news, and then next thing you see is the forums erupting into love / hate arguments over which game will be the jesus, and which will be garbage.
In this week's Guild Wars 2 column, David North takes a peek at the combat in one of gaming's most hotly anticipated titles. There a whole lot of different factors that make combat in an MMO either special or forgettable, and David thinks he has a grasp on which is which.
Guild Wars for me was a bit of a breath of fresh air when looking at the overall pace of combat. It wasn’t perfect but it was much faster than other games. There were enemies all over, and decisions during battle had to be made quickly as we faced large groups of enemies, not a group of 3 or 4 enemies at a time that just had a massive amount of health. This was nice as it added more action to the gameplay and kept me moving. For Guild Wars 2 this is pushed even further as we see elements of combat revisited and worked on in a new, fresh way for the genre.
I noticed you praise and indulge fast paced combat system and the fact that GW2 has indeed fast paced combat.
None said that having good or great pace on a combat system is a plus. Take Oblvion for example. It has a realistic running speed for characters . There are some battles u meet,quest encounters and stuff where the battle is like 5 vs 12 or 10 vs 20 etc etc
During the battle you fight an enemy but also u have to observe and understand what's going on around you, hows the battle going,are there anay allies in harsg situation? Can u do something to help them? Maybe u should ignore the mob u fight currently and run to help your ally guy over there in the corner who's surounded by 3-4 enemies and is almost dead ?
All these... little and unimportant things, u can barely observe in oblivion's slow to normal lets say paced combat speed since u have to use spells ,manually block or even dodge attacks ,attack the enemy u fight etc etc
All these things as you understand is the definition of tactical factor in a combat system.
If u can explain us though in big battles in GW 2 though, how the player can realise how the combat goes around him,what's going on ,who attacks what if the combat system is (which it is), alot faster than oblivion's. No need to mention the chaos and disorientation rgar is gonnna occure in big pvp battles.
I could bring as an example also, huge fights 150 vs 250 in Mount and blade warband ,where due to the fact that pace is even bit slower than oblivion's , you can tell / understand what's exactly going on during the fight which side needs help, which band of soldiers need ssupport etc etc and we are talking here about 300+ mobs fighting around u where it is the definition of hell.
So my friend David dont think that fast paced combat is a plus to tactical. from my personal; expirience its a minor in most cases and it removes from tactical depth not adds anything.
Your argument boils down to this. People will be overwelmed by the amount of decisions that players must make in a short period of time, leading them to relying on zerging to be effective in combat. This menas that the system is shallow and only allows for stupic shallow decisions because that is the only thing that works.
.
.
.
this is completely back asswards you know.
higher paced combat isn't a bad thing. Its a good thing for gamers who want a game to feel active and in motion, which is a rather stunning contrast to most combat in other MMOs.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
You cannot tell me this is anything but a truth-telling review.
By this, I mean the hype is entirely false and just that-- pure hype.
This game sounds no different than any other MMORPG, with nothing new added to the scene. Fanboys can puff it up all they want, but moving while casting spells isn't anything special or new.
Guild Wars 2 has so much overwhelming hype, I truly do think it will probably be one of the most successful MMORPG's ever--- in terms of 1st month box sales. After they purchase the game, everyone will be severely disappointed that all the hype was entirely smoke and mirrors in their minds, only to realize that those of us who say "Pure Hype" were right all along.
This game will certainly NOT revolutionize the industry like so many believe. Sorry. NEXT!
Of course you don't think it will revolutionize the industry...after all, no other game has. I don't really believe that either.
However, hype is high because people see the potential for something different. Different, in this case means a game that don't simply try to build off of the success of WoW.
GW2 is not pure hype, and this is because the differences between GW2 and other modern MMOs is real.
This, however does not mean success is guarenteed, as both the quality of the changes and the general reception by the players is not something that can easily be determined before the game actually releases and players get the opportunity to try the game.
GW2 has a number of things going for it, as it has built its game from a different foundation that other MMOs have come from, it is the second game of the IP and already has a fair bit of recognition in the gaming community, and the demos have been incredibly well recieved by players. This means that the initial reaction of most players has been overwelmingly possitive, and not just in a "this is going in the right direction sort of way" or " this game has potential, but it isn't ready yet", but in a "take my money now" sort of way where people I know in real life have expressed that the demos are a lot more polished and feel more finished than most released MMOs they have played (they have played the demos, as have I). The truth is that the game is indeed still being developed and improved upon, and by the time it releases it will be better than It was at the comic con demo stations.
Some of those who do not feel the hype or trust the hype of this game will probably have actual legitimate reasons that they think the game will not work out for them, or for the majority of people, but smoke and mirrors is a really flimsy reason, given the amount of gameplay that this game has gotten at different conventions.
One last thing. IF your prediction of failure because of pure hype based on smoke and mirrors turns out to be false and GW2 actually turns out to be a very successful game, where does that leave naysayers like you? Will you end up trying the game? or will you just fade into the population of some clone MMO that made every effort to cater to what players have come to expect from new MMOs.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
The only thing required to revolutionize the industry is to have a good enough graphics engine, good enough combat system and most importantly the design philosophy to not settle with a compromise.
Some people like concepts like permanent death, player interaction, combat to level up, etc. Others like handholding linear quest design with a race to the endgame via quest systems.
As long as GW2 devs realizes this, they will create two different rulesets for two different realms, one for open ended roleplayers, other for achievers.
This is where WoW failed miserably. They tried to balance game for the entirety of the playerbase, and that compromise ended up not serving either very well.
Its funny how the reviewer finished the article with an accent on "look at how they are all moving, oh man its so super inventive and awesome"... Well something like this. I've seen videos where people stand around the big ass monster and just whack away, looked as boring as RIFT. I will try the game, after all its a free sub, but all this excitement about super pooper battle system? Well, in the end of the day it will be very similar to original GW. You'll see.
So...you've seen ALL the videos and actually played it too? Must be nice to know everything ahead of time. While you're at it, I'd like some winning Power-Ball numbers, plz. Oh, and the results of the 2012 presidential election, if you don't mind.
Comments
To be fare, I can see why you would think you were being called out since it was a responce to your concern. But as my post history can back up, I wasn't being a dick and I wasn't saying YOU I clearly said We as in the people that usually bring real information on the GW2 threads to back up our opinons and I also said THOSE that try to nitpick. I wasn't saying you in particular. Sorry if you took it that way. But in fareness on my part, you do seem to take what you want from our responces and still drive forth with your opinion without SEEMING to actually concidder what is there for you. Either way I'd say don't judge the game or the GW community before all the facts are there.
And BTW I am not upset in the slightest if you meant me. I couldn't care less if you or others don't play. i'll be there with bells on.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I would give any game 6 months after release before it will be close to balanced, or at least have I never seen a game close to balanced before that. 3 months at least after they raised the level cap.
But ANET is the best company on balancing online games out there. What will make GW2 so easy to balance is however the fact that items make very litttle impact on who wins the combat, games like Wow and Rift have very hard to be balanced because of that.
You have profession crossing effects (Ranger shoots arrows into Eles firewall to create fire arrows, etc.). There is also something I have never seen before: new skills w/every new weapon you equip. I could go on, but the main point I am trying to convey here: combat WILL be different. Yes, other MMOs have used some of these aspects of combat, but Anet has taken these ideas, and perfected (some may not agree perfected but at least polished.) them. The combat is very fluid, but also exciting and fast paced. I played the demo at Pax 2011.
Also, in what game MMO have you seen REAL player skill implemented into the successfulness of combat? No, not gear, not you player level, not how much damage your skills deal, but how you actually play the game. How you dodge, position, etc. Player skill is emphasized greatly. In low level areas, high level chars power is downscaled, so that they cant one shot mobs and ruin the fun for other players. They will have to actually DO SOMETHING in combat to win.
Combat is not the only characteristic this game is using to try to make something different. Dynamic events (PLEASE someone notify me of a MMO that uses this concept) replacing quests. Personal storyline, persistent world (yes all MMOs use this), no holy trinity. NO healers, tanks, DPS, etc. You actually have to work as a team to get something done. Omg!
In short: Anet IS making something different. Not genre-changing (because people will always come up with excuses to not like it). Do some research on this game and what Anet is creating, and try to say that this game is just another MMO.
..And lets not forgot THIS GAME IS FREE TO PLAY. What other free to play game could EVER live up to GW or GW2?
I am looking forward to this. Im pretty well done with the majority of whats currently out. I just hope it doesnt let me down like the last couple games I got. (Rift, FFXIV)
Dear David
I noticed you praise and indulge fast paced combat system and the fact that GW2 has indeed fast paced combat.
None said that having good or great pace on a combat system is a plus. Take Oblvion for example. It has a realistic running speed for characters . There are some battles u meet,quest encounters and stuff where the battle is like 5 vs 12 or 10 vs 20 etc etc
During the battle you fight an enemy but also u have to observe and understand what's going on around you, hows the battle going,are there anay allies in harsg situation? Can u do something to help them? Maybe u should ignore the mob u fight currently and run to help your ally guy over there in the corner who's surounded by 3-4 enemies and is almost dead ?
All these... little and unimportant things, u can barely observe in oblivion's slow to normal lets say paced combat speed since u have to use spells ,manually block or even dodge attacks ,attack the enemy u fight etc etc
All these things as you understand is the definition of tactical factor in a combat system.
If u can explain us though in big battles in GW 2 though, how the player can realise how the combat goes around him,what's going on ,who attacks what if the combat system is (which it is), alot faster than oblivion's. No need to mention the chaos and disorientation rgar is gonnna occure in big pvp battles.
I could bring as an example also, huge fights 150 vs 250 in Mount and blade warband ,where due to the fact that pace is even bit slower than oblivion's , you can tell / understand what's exactly going on during the fight which side needs help, which band of soldiers need ssupport etc etc and we are talking here about 300+ mobs fighting around u where it is the definition of hell.
So my friend David dont think that fast paced combat is a plus to tactical. from my personal; expirience its a minor in most cases and it removes from tactical depth not adds anything.
You cannot tell me this is anything but a truth-telling review.
By this, I mean the hype is entirely false and just that-- pure hype.
This game sounds no different than any other MMORPG, with nothing new added to the scene. Fanboys can puff it up all they want, but moving while casting spells isn't anything special or new.
Guild Wars 2 has so much overwhelming hype, I truly do think it will probably be one of the most successful MMORPG's ever--- in terms of 1st month box sales. After they purchase the game, everyone will be severely disappointed that all the hype was entirely smoke and mirrors in their minds, only to realize that those of us who say "Pure Hype" were right all along.
This game will certainly NOT revolutionize the industry like so many believe. Sorry. NEXT!
I have to ask, have you played it? At all? Have you played the first one? At all?
Both games have very different combat to what you find in most MMOs currently. You can play this and see it quite clearly. So moving & casting isn't a big deal to you. That's not the only thing that makes up combat in this game. I'd highly suggest getting some actual experience on the game, before passing it off. Or, if you're one of those gamers who absolutely hated GW1, then I'm not sure why you are coming here expecting the sequel to be completely different.
That said;
I do agree that this game has been overhyped, EVERY new MMO falls victim to this. EVERY. LAST. ONE. Look at TOR, that too is being severely overhyped. Both games are being praised as 'changing the industry!' Both games have been called the 2nd coming of the new age of MMOs. Anyone with half a brain knows this is highly unlikely, however a select few fanatics take the marketting hype and blow it out of proportion.
A lot of it has to do with the advertisements being blown out of proportion on these forums. The fanatical fans get a scrap of news, and then next thing you see is the forums erupting into love / hate arguments over which game will be the jesus, and which will be garbage.
Your argument boils down to this. People will be overwelmed by the amount of decisions that players must make in a short period of time, leading them to relying on zerging to be effective in combat. This menas that the system is shallow and only allows for stupic shallow decisions because that is the only thing that works.
.
.
.
this is completely back asswards you know.
higher paced combat isn't a bad thing. Its a good thing for gamers who want a game to feel active and in motion, which is a rather stunning contrast to most combat in other MMOs.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Of course you don't think it will revolutionize the industry...after all, no other game has. I don't really believe that either.
However, hype is high because people see the potential for something different. Different, in this case means a game that don't simply try to build off of the success of WoW.
GW2 is not pure hype, and this is because the differences between GW2 and other modern MMOs is real.
This, however does not mean success is guarenteed, as both the quality of the changes and the general reception by the players is not something that can easily be determined before the game actually releases and players get the opportunity to try the game.
GW2 has a number of things going for it, as it has built its game from a different foundation that other MMOs have come from, it is the second game of the IP and already has a fair bit of recognition in the gaming community, and the demos have been incredibly well recieved by players. This means that the initial reaction of most players has been overwelmingly possitive, and not just in a "this is going in the right direction sort of way" or " this game has potential, but it isn't ready yet", but in a "take my money now" sort of way where people I know in real life have expressed that the demos are a lot more polished and feel more finished than most released MMOs they have played (they have played the demos, as have I). The truth is that the game is indeed still being developed and improved upon, and by the time it releases it will be better than It was at the comic con demo stations.
Some of those who do not feel the hype or trust the hype of this game will probably have actual legitimate reasons that they think the game will not work out for them, or for the majority of people, but smoke and mirrors is a really flimsy reason, given the amount of gameplay that this game has gotten at different conventions.
One last thing. IF your prediction of failure because of pure hype based on smoke and mirrors turns out to be false and GW2 actually turns out to be a very successful game, where does that leave naysayers like you? Will you end up trying the game? or will you just fade into the population of some clone MMO that made every effort to cater to what players have come to expect from new MMOs.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
@Grimm6th
The only thing required to revolutionize the industry is to have a good enough graphics engine, good enough combat system and most importantly the design philosophy to not settle with a compromise.
Some people like concepts like permanent death, player interaction, combat to level up, etc. Others like handholding linear quest design with a race to the endgame via quest systems.
As long as GW2 devs realizes this, they will create two different rulesets for two different realms, one for open ended roleplayers, other for achievers.
This is where WoW failed miserably. They tried to balance game for the entirety of the playerbase, and that compromise ended up not serving either very well.
So...you've seen ALL the videos and actually played it too? Must be nice to know everything ahead of time. While you're at it, I'd like some winning Power-Ball numbers, plz. Oh, and the results of the 2012 presidential election, if you don't mind.