It's funny that the cynics think anyone is saying anything other than agreeing with the article title that GW2 will kick combat up A NOTCH.
Fan: "I'm excited and think GW2 combat will be different because I've seen it/experienced it and it is definitely different than the first, or than I've experienced in other MMOs"
Cynic: "OMG why do you fanbois keep saying that GW2 combat will be so otherworldy revolutionary and bring about world peace?! Sure, it'll be DIFFERENT, but that's all, really."
What's worse than an article full of fanbois is the one fanboi that "sees" nothing but negative posts and ups the fanboism. People need to relax. GW2 will be somewhat different yes, but it is certainly not a game changer or a complete change in mmo design. For the love of all that is holy, please watch the videos. Notice how untwitch-like the dodging and blocking is in the game. Clearly, there is no new strategy required by this combat system that will change the genre in any meaningful way. Actually, its more probable that this system will dumb down the playerbase even more. I get it, you all are excited. Hopefully the game is even a fraction of what you all hope for, but to think the game is going to shock the world is just fantasy.
I don't think it's so much about changing the whole MMO genre as it is just somehting different. To put it bluntly, and with no offense, most of the new and upcoming MMO's are quite bland and pretty much the same, especially combat-wise.
So the way I see it is like this; If you the like standard combat with taunts and trinity and all that, then you have a bunch of games to choose from. But for anyone who is growing tired of stationary combat, this is at least a step in the right direction.
Also, any added "physical" dodging and blocking will add tactics, as long as those types of movements negate/avoid damage. It doesn't matter if in the end it only saves 10% of your health... when it comes to e-sports and competitive play 10% could be everything.
Those of us who have played it can hardly grip the new system. Even at a convention you get to play just a handful of minutes. It's like... looking at early public demoes of CoD or BF3, and the game seems bland and lacking. Yet when you have clans going against clans, suddenly everything becomes more... integrated.
So again, if you have not played the game, then this whole "you'll see how bad it is when it comes out" thing is pointless. For whatever reason, some just won't accept the fact that a lot of consumers have already played the game, albiet just a short while.
Nice article. But you forgot to mention another important aspect - cross profession combos. These add a whole new dimension to combat.Also lol at people who say that GW2's combat brings nothing new. Yeah, I guess other MMO's have much more innovative combat systems.. right?
Didn't EQ2 have group combat tactics?
Yes, and so does LOTRO. However, that's not what is meant by "cross-profession combos" in GW2. There is a difference between each class executing a particular attack or type of attack to bring about a huge finisher, and the ability for one player to lay down an area of effect in the world, such as fire, poison, healing, etc., and anyone coming along can shoot or swing a blade through that effect to spread it to enemies.
This is not to argue that the latter is better, merely that it is distinctly different, and, furthermore, does not require the participants to be grouped to take advantage of the possibilities.
Nice article. But you forgot to mention another important aspect - cross profession combos. These add a whole new dimension to combat.Also lol at people who say that GW2's combat brings nothing new. Yeah, I guess other MMO's have much more innovative combat systems.. right?
Didn't EQ2 have group combat tactics?
Not the same thing youre thinking of. Theyeve given several example sin the past, cant remember hem all, but on the GW2 site they have this in the combat section:
"Turn the tide of battle with improvised tactics. Combine attacks from different professions for extra damage, like shooting arrows through a flaming wall to create a barrage of flaming projectiles, or sending pets through a cloud of poison so they spread the toxin among the enemy."
They had also mentioned back when they first talked about it other things like an elementalist casting some sort of wind spell and a warrior being able to use certain attacks to swing their weapon throughit and create AoE wind attacks.
There have been a few games in the past where there was certain group / cross profession interaction which triggered the ability for othe rpeople to do certain special attacks, but not to the extent theyre discussing, and not with as much variety and between all the different classes.
Nice article. But you forgot to mention another important aspect - cross profession combos. These add a whole new dimension to combat.Also lol at people who say that GW2's combat brings nothing new. Yeah, I guess other MMO's have much more innovative combat systems.. right?
Didn't EQ2 have group combat tactics?
It's a lot different. In EQ2 (and FFXI to an extent) you had abilities that chained off other abilities. In EQ2 you had to activate them and they were called Heroic Opportunities, where you gained an extra effect for using abilities of various types in the proper order designated by the system and with branching paths. In FFXI you certain skills chained together when used quickly in conjuction with one another to form a skill chain which increased their effect. In FFXIV you also have battle regiments too which work similar to EQ2's Heroic Opportunities.
Guild Wars 2 is somewhat different though. Instead of these abilities being limited to skill chains in your group instead you can actually use the effects of abilities of other players and combine them to create entirely different effects. It works differently than the previous MMOs in two ways:
1. It's not limited to your group. Any player in the vicinity can take advantage of certain abilities you use to create ability combinations of their own.
2. Instead of it just being a matter of you using abilities in a certain order to create an additional effect or ability you are instead using the abilities directly and physically. What I mean by this is, that instead of it being a matter of casting the skill Firewall and then using an arrow ability from a Ranger as it would be in another MMO you instead actually physically get behind the Firewall and SHOOT through it, which ignites your arrow and causes a new effect. Using the Warrior's Whirlwind attack within the Firewall will spread random firebolts around the area, each their own projectile which could potentially hit nearby enemies. It's not just a matter of applying the skill in the correct order, but using the ability while you are in the proper position.
It's not a major innovation, yes. Guild Wars 2 combat still boils down to the standard use a hotkey -> get effect style of gameplay we are used to in most MMOs, but little minor innovations like this should keep combat fresh at least for a little while.
Wish they would just release the damn game already... they annouced this too soon, its getting to the point where i will be too tied up in other games to even mess with this one when it comes out in 2020
Wait, based on that video, the attacks arent aim like a 3PS, but the go towards the target, wherever that target may be.
The game was never stated to be a 3PS MMO. There have been some comparisons, but having to 'aim' wasn't one of them. There are ground targetting abilities, but that's not quite the same. Hopefully you weren't mislead into believing so.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Wait, based on that video, the attacks arent aim like a 3PS, but the go towards the target, wherever that target may be.
GW2 is not a 3rd person shooter and you do not have to manually aim your attacks; however, if a attack is launched, it goes to where the target was at the time of launch, and if the target should move prior to the attack landing, the attack will miss.
That's how both tab-targetting and dodge-rolling can work.
Really? Up a notch? Maybe I have been watching different videos, but it doesn't seem to be all that much of a notch. Think about it, people have been using movement as a means to improve their survival in mmorpgs since mmorpgs came out. So you don't have to stop for 0.5 - 2.0 seconds it takes to cast a spell, fire an arrow, or whatever. Big deal.
As if for some reason having unrestricted movement makes the game more tactical. I contend that when you had to actually time spells and actions based on their movement restrictions, the game was more tactical. But yay, now I can move and cast spells in GW2 but still have to contend with global cooldown timers. Oh, and the overwhelming domination of ranged classes in pvp that this type of ability promotes in a game that has auto-targetting.
Lastly, someone mentioned earlier that FPS style games have their own issues with combat that become monotonous after continued use. No different than EQ's original point, click, auto-attack, yawn technique. Bottom line: as much as I like GW2 concept, it is overhyped and will get hurt by that overhype...
Oh, and the overwhelming domination of ranged classes in pvp that this type of ability promotes in a game that has auto-targetting.
Except that every melee class has a ranged weapon type, a closing move, and that auto-targeting does NOT mean that ranged attacks automatically hone in on an enemy; they launch where the target WAS, not where the target WILL BE if the target moves.
Really? Up a notch? Maybe I have been watching different videos, but it doesn't seem to be all that much of a notch. Think about it, people have been using movement as a means to improve their survival in mmorpgs since mmorpgs came out. So you don't have to stop for 0.5 - 2.0 seconds it takes to cast a spell, fire an arrow, or whatever. Big deal.
As if for some reason having unrestricted movement makes the game more tactical. I contend that when you had to actually time spells and actions based on their movement restrictions, the game was more tactical. But yay, now I can move and cast spells in GW2 but still have to contend with global cooldown timers. Oh, and the overwhelming domination of ranged classes in pvp that this type of ability promotes in a game that has auto-targetting.
Lastly, someone mentioned earlier that FPS style games have their own issues with combat that become monotonous after continued use. No different than EQ's original point, click, auto-attack, yawn technique. Bottom line: as much as I like GW2 concept, it is overhyped and will get hurt by that overhype...
I don't think anyone is really combat that much. Read the above posts, just about everyone is saying they like GW2 combat for being different. A small few really believe it will change and dominate the MMO genre, most of its fanbase simply want something new.
When you speak of just simply moving, yea it may not be that cool. But when you bundle it with all the other combat features such as environment weapons, cross-class combos, and active vs passive combat, its not really the same as other MMO. Also, the combat is not entirely auto-targetting. Infact, there are various videos showcasing a whole line of skills just being aimed at absolutely nothing. And being able to cast/fire while on the move doesn't mean you are dominating. It's actually the "softer" weapons that are mobile. The stronger ranged weapons are actually more stationary to balance them out.
But in reality, if you've ever played competetive MMO's you'd understand that stopping for 2 seconds everytime you cast makes the game very systematic.
Now to me, GW2 combat is NOT worse than the regular stationary combat. But when you feel it compared to other MMO's, it is certainly not the same. So in theory, if it's not worse (unproven...) and not the same, it only has one direction to be. And that's a notch up, even if ever so slightly.
Just grab your younger sister and show them various combat clips of MMOs and ask them which one looks the most different. I can tell you right now, between LOTRO, WoW, and Rift, my younger wouldn't be able to tell the difference. She also thought FFXIV looked different. But that's more towards it's art...
I don't understand. Have the people who claim this type of combat to be 'refreshing' been hiding under a rock for the past 3-4 years? Age of Conan has the most innovative combat system to date -casters being the exception, but still, they have this thing called spellweaving-
There's 'active blocking' through the positioning of your shields, there's positioning involved as hitting an unprotected side has less dmg mitigation, there's the combo system ofcourse, there's manually dodging by performing double-tap sidesteps, there's an active stunning through double-tapping 'move up', ...
Really, if you have played that game -and I'm talking about the combat only, feel free to talk about the other content or failed implementation of it anywhere else but here- you'll soon realize that the combat of GW2 is dated before it has even been launched or released.
Really? Up a notch? Maybe I have been watching different videos, but it doesn't seem to be all that much of a notch. Think about it, people have been using movement as a means to improve their survival in mmorpgs since mmorpgs came out. So you don't have to stop for 0.5 - 2.0 seconds it takes to cast a spell, fire an arrow, or whatever. Big deal.
As if for some reason having unrestricted movement makes the game more tactical. I contend that when you had to actually time spells and actions based on their movement restrictions, the game was more tactical. But yay, now I can move and cast spells in GW2 but still have to contend with global cooldown timers. Oh, and the overwhelming domination of ranged classes in pvp that this type of ability promotes in a game that has auto-targetting.
Lastly, someone mentioned earlier that FPS style games have their own issues with combat that become monotonous after continued use. No different than EQ's original point, click, auto-attack, yawn technique. Bottom line: as much as I like GW2 concept, it is overhyped and will get hurt by that overhype...
You're talking about moving as one aspect of the GW2 combat that doesn't impress you, then bashing the whole system, as if it's the only aspect.
First off, mobs in GW2 will attack differently than in a holy trinity MMO. They are going to try to kill the ones you'd expect mobs to try to kill, the high damage, low armored, more actually threatening people. Taunting doesn't exist in GW2 and the people in the tanking, (or "controlling" role in GW2 terms) won't just have a lock on aggro due to additional threat. More likely, they'll be trying to knock a mob down from behind while it goes for the caster.
In that kind of system, casting while moving is a necessity, not just a convenience.
It goes hand in hand with being able to dodge attacks and projectiles. Warriors can go into a toggled shield stance that blocks projectiles from hitting players behind them. A tank in PVP goes from either being useless or relying on silly mechanics to being a viable shield wall with a mace to stun the guy trying to go around him.
Anyone can rez anybody else at any time in GW2's system. No longer will it just be that someone screwed up, time to call a wipe. It will allow players to battle back and recover from mistakes. Also, it lets mobs do things that would be pretty unfair in a traditional MMO, like hit really hard. We've already seen video of a dynamic event boss 1-shotting a thief who got careless. That isn't even in the dungeons which will be the hard content.
Different classes use weapons differently. A bow in the hands of a ranger is a single target weapon. In the hands of a warrior, it's an AOE weapon. The feel of combat can totally change based on class and weapon, like using a mace for stuns or a greatsword for melee AOE. It's not like other games where any weapon is as good as any other because they're just doing damage.
Weapons and skills change when going underwater. You can't swing a sword so you use a harpoon gun or a trident and get different skills. Fire magic boils the water instead of just acting the same.
Players have multiple weapon sets, kits or attunements so they can switch up their role in combat. You're not locked into being the tank, dps or healer. You can adopt a different role on the fly to adjust to what you need to be doing.
Different classes can work together with cross profession combos. Arrows shot through a fire wall doing extra damage is the most commonly cited example, but there's supposed to be like 100 of them.
I'm not sure if I missed anything. I'm sure someone will help me out if I did. (EDIT, forgot your skillbar changing when you pick up an environmental weapon, dammit. EDIT#2, I also forgot that there's no ally targeting, so you can look at the screen and not at health bars. Ally healing is done through secondary and AOE effects.)
Anyway, is there any point in the middle of that that GW2 meets the stated goal of kicking combat up a notch?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I don't understand. Have the people who claim this type of combat to be 'refreshing' been hiding under a rock for the past 3-4 years? Age of Conan has the most innovative combat system to date -casters being the exception, but still, they have this thing called spellweaving-
There's 'active blocking' through the positioning of your shields, there's positioning involved as hitting an unprotected side has less dmg mitigation, there's the combo system ofcourse, there's manually dodging by performing double-tap sidesteps, there's an active stunning through double-tapping 'move up', ...
Really, if you have played that game -and I'm talking about the combat only, feel free to talk about the other content or failed implementation of it anywhere else but here- you'll soon realize that the combat of GW2 is dated before it has even been launched or released.
I have played AoC, and I would say one of the bigger flaws of that game is not that combat is active, but rather the DDR style of combo execution and the blatant advantage casters had over melee in that respect. The shields/whiff potential, lack of auto attack, and the fact that you struck everything in your path with your sword were great innovations and are unfortunately overlooked due to people's prejudice over the other aspects of AoC that did not fare as well.
Unfortunately since I didn't like much else about AoC once I left Tortage, and since as a caster I felt that particular combat innovation did not extend to my class, I am much more excited about what Guild Wars 2 has to offer that not even AoC did. You could say that people are excited because GW2 offers something similar to AoC, but improved, and a chance at the rest of the game not being broken at launch .
I don't understand. Have the people who claim this type of combat to be 'refreshing' been hiding under a rock for the past 3-4 years? Age of Conan has the most innovative combat system to date -casters being the exception, but still, they have this thing called spellweaving-
There's 'active blocking' through the positioning of your shields, there's positioning involved as hitting an unprotected side has less dmg mitigation, there's the combo system ofcourse, there's manually dodging by performing double-tap sidesteps, there's an active stunning through double-tapping 'move up', ...
Really, if you have played that game -and I'm talking about the combat only, feel free to talk about the other content or failed implementation of it anywhere else but here- you'll soon realize that the combat of GW2 is dated before it has even been launched or released.
I have played AoC, and I would say one of the bigger flaws of that game is not that combat is active, but rather the DDR style of combo execution and the blatant advantage casters had over melee in that respect. The shields/whiff potential, lack of auto attack, and the fact that you struck everything in your path with your sword were great innovations and are unfortunately overlooked due to people's prejudice over the other aspects of AoC that did not fare as well.
Unfortunately since I didn't like much else about AoC once I left Tortage, and since as a caster I felt that particular combat innovation did not extend to my class, I am much more excited about what Guild Wars 2 has to offer that not even AoC did. You could say that people are excited because GW2 offers something similar to AoC, but improved, and a chance at the rest of the game not being broken at launch .
The main gripe I had with AoC was that combat was almost a "locked in" sort of mechanic. It's hard to describe really, but even with the evades and stuns, entering combat was like locking into a mechanic for a while. I have always said that AoC could have been better if their combat was a bit more fluid in that everything was more seemless. I like the directional attack and think it should be kept in MMO's, but the way AoC did it, it was made it into something akin to turn-based-puzzle-solving. This of course is not bad, but my opinion is that it could have been much more if only they integrated it a bit more.
Tiny step ? As mentioned above, dodge and roll is being used for the first time in a mmo, not to mention the L4D style of reviving teammates. You also have water combat , which is not new but how it is being done is unique. Nothing tiny about Guild Wars 2 except Asura.
First time? DCUO has already been mentioned. It's a real MMO, it's more of an MMO than GW1 was, with less instancing, more raids, more PvE, etc. I doubt anything will beat the action and tactical feel of it's combat for a long time. I'm glad GW2 is trying to add a little to the standard MMO-fare, but it's not the first in anything, and definitely won't be the paradigm.
My question is why just go half measured? An mmo where your characters weapon or projectile has to make 3D contact with it's target based on physics and trajectory would have been pretty revolutionary if done right. This hybrid system just seems odd.
Tiny step ? As mentioned above, dodge and roll is being used for the first time in a mmo, not to mention the L4D style of reviving teammates. You also have water combat , which is not new but how it is being done is unique. Nothing tiny about Guild Wars 2 except Asura.
First time? DCUO has already been mentioned. It's a real MMO, it's more of an MMO than GW1 was, with less instancing, more raids, more PvE, etc. I doubt anything will beat the action and tactical feel of it's combat for a long time. I'm glad GW2 is trying to add a little to the standard MMO-fare, but it's not the first in anything, and definitely won't be the paradigm.
My question is why just go half measured? An mmo where your characters weapon or projectile has to make 3D contact with it's target based on physics and trajectory would have been pretty revolutionary if done right. This hybrid system just seems odd.
I can understand wondering why GW2 went in the hybrid direction, but having played DCUO I can only say - speaking for myself, of course - thank GOODness they didn't go all the way console-style. I liked the idea of DCUO but I had no desire to have to whip out a controller to play my MMO on my PC, and after a handful of levels I just found the amount of click-and-hold mouse combos to not be worth my while when I just wanted to play the darned game. YMMV of course, but this is also why I dislike games that have entirely free aiming with a target reticule the way TERA is supposed to be.
GW2 is more along the lines of Champions Online, and that's just at the edges of my comfort level. I'm not standing around kicking the shins of NPCs, but I don't have to tie my fingers in knots clicking in increasingly-complex combinations just to fire a rank 3 fireball, either.
I am still not sure if ill like the more active combat or not.
The action side of me is looking forward to the more active combat as it surely will add more need to pay attention and actual skill might become important again.
On the other hand the RPG fan side of me is crying out in pain about this combat system what use it is to build u an eva class if all classes regardless on skilling and equipment can dodge by just hitting 1 button hell building anything else than a Plate wearer will put me in a disadvantage now since i can evade anyway but if i miss the right timing i at least wear the most armor to get best protection.
ANet said in a Video that they wanted to put RPG back into MMORPG and right after that they explained there combat which was really contradicting
I wonder if my gamemaster for Shadowrun will allow me to evade all attacks only course i say i evade worth a try i guess lol
Tiny step ? As mentioned above, dodge and roll is being used for the first time in a mmo, not to mention the L4D style of reviving teammates. You also have water combat , which is not new but how it is being done is unique. Nothing tiny about Guild Wars 2 except Asura.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Comments
It's funny that the cynics think anyone is saying anything other than agreeing with the article title that GW2 will kick combat up A NOTCH.
Fan: "I'm excited and think GW2 combat will be different because I've seen it/experienced it and it is definitely different than the first, or than I've experienced in other MMOs"
Cynic: "OMG why do you fanbois keep saying that GW2 combat will be so otherworldy revolutionary and bring about world peace?! Sure, it'll be DIFFERENT, but that's all, really."
I don't think it's so much about changing the whole MMO genre as it is just somehting different. To put it bluntly, and with no offense, most of the new and upcoming MMO's are quite bland and pretty much the same, especially combat-wise.
So the way I see it is like this; If you the like standard combat with taunts and trinity and all that, then you have a bunch of games to choose from. But for anyone who is growing tired of stationary combat, this is at least a step in the right direction.
Also, any added "physical" dodging and blocking will add tactics, as long as those types of movements negate/avoid damage. It doesn't matter if in the end it only saves 10% of your health... when it comes to e-sports and competitive play 10% could be everything.
Those of us who have played it can hardly grip the new system. Even at a convention you get to play just a handful of minutes. It's like... looking at early public demoes of CoD or BF3, and the game seems bland and lacking. Yet when you have clans going against clans, suddenly everything becomes more... integrated.
So again, if you have not played the game, then this whole "you'll see how bad it is when it comes out" thing is pointless. For whatever reason, some just won't accept the fact that a lot of consumers have already played the game, albiet just a short while.
Yes, and so does LOTRO. However, that's not what is meant by "cross-profession combos" in GW2. There is a difference between each class executing a particular attack or type of attack to bring about a huge finisher, and the ability for one player to lay down an area of effect in the world, such as fire, poison, healing, etc., and anyone coming along can shoot or swing a blade through that effect to spread it to enemies.
This is not to argue that the latter is better, merely that it is distinctly different, and, furthermore, does not require the participants to be grouped to take advantage of the possibilities.
Not the same thing youre thinking of. Theyeve given several example sin the past, cant remember hem all, but on the GW2 site they have this in the combat section:
"Turn the tide of battle with improvised tactics. Combine attacks from different professions for extra damage, like shooting arrows through a flaming wall to create a barrage of flaming projectiles, or sending pets through a cloud of poison so they spread the toxin among the enemy."
They had also mentioned back when they first talked about it other things like an elementalist casting some sort of wind spell and a warrior being able to use certain attacks to swing their weapon throughit and create AoE wind attacks.
There have been a few games in the past where there was certain group / cross profession interaction which triggered the ability for othe rpeople to do certain special attacks, but not to the extent theyre discussing, and not with as much variety and between all the different classes.
It's a lot different. In EQ2 (and FFXI to an extent) you had abilities that chained off other abilities. In EQ2 you had to activate them and they were called Heroic Opportunities, where you gained an extra effect for using abilities of various types in the proper order designated by the system and with branching paths. In FFXI you certain skills chained together when used quickly in conjuction with one another to form a skill chain which increased their effect. In FFXIV you also have battle regiments too which work similar to EQ2's Heroic Opportunities.
Guild Wars 2 is somewhat different though. Instead of these abilities being limited to skill chains in your group instead you can actually use the effects of abilities of other players and combine them to create entirely different effects. It works differently than the previous MMOs in two ways:
1. It's not limited to your group. Any player in the vicinity can take advantage of certain abilities you use to create ability combinations of their own.
2. Instead of it just being a matter of you using abilities in a certain order to create an additional effect or ability you are instead using the abilities directly and physically. What I mean by this is, that instead of it being a matter of casting the skill Firewall and then using an arrow ability from a Ranger as it would be in another MMO you instead actually physically get behind the Firewall and SHOOT through it, which ignites your arrow and causes a new effect. Using the Warrior's Whirlwind attack within the Firewall will spread random firebolts around the area, each their own projectile which could potentially hit nearby enemies. It's not just a matter of applying the skill in the correct order, but using the ability while you are in the proper position.
It's not a major innovation, yes. Guild Wars 2 combat still boils down to the standard use a hotkey -> get effect style of gameplay we are used to in most MMOs, but little minor innovations like this should keep combat fresh at least for a little while.
Did someone say Notch!?!
Notch Johnson that is.
Wish they would just release the damn game already... they annouced this too soon, its getting to the point where i will be too tied up in other games to even mess with this one when it comes out in 2020
dude you dont understand how exact that comment was to the way i feel
Wait, based on that video, the attacks arent aim like a 3PS, but the go towards the target, wherever that target may be.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
The game was never stated to be a 3PS MMO. There have been some comparisons, but having to 'aim' wasn't one of them. There are ground targetting abilities, but that's not quite the same. Hopefully you weren't mislead into believing so.
a good read. thanks for the info!
This is the most active gameplay video I've seen so far.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0J4J2F-f9A
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
GW2 is not a 3rd person shooter and you do not have to manually aim your attacks; however, if a attack is launched, it goes to where the target was at the time of launch, and if the target should move prior to the attack landing, the attack will miss.
That's how both tab-targetting and dodge-rolling can work.
I am a bit afrait it might overwhelm me. If such things are possible, they may very well be needed even in PVE. Oh well.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Really? Up a notch? Maybe I have been watching different videos, but it doesn't seem to be all that much of a notch. Think about it, people have been using movement as a means to improve their survival in mmorpgs since mmorpgs came out. So you don't have to stop for 0.5 - 2.0 seconds it takes to cast a spell, fire an arrow, or whatever. Big deal.
As if for some reason having unrestricted movement makes the game more tactical. I contend that when you had to actually time spells and actions based on their movement restrictions, the game was more tactical. But yay, now I can move and cast spells in GW2 but still have to contend with global cooldown timers. Oh, and the overwhelming domination of ranged classes in pvp that this type of ability promotes in a game that has auto-targetting.
Lastly, someone mentioned earlier that FPS style games have their own issues with combat that become monotonous after continued use. No different than EQ's original point, click, auto-attack, yawn technique. Bottom line: as much as I like GW2 concept, it is overhyped and will get hurt by that overhype...
Except that every melee class has a ranged weapon type, a closing move, and that auto-targeting does NOT mean that ranged attacks automatically hone in on an enemy; they launch where the target WAS, not where the target WILL BE if the target moves.
So, yeah, not quite like EQ and its descendents.
I don't think anyone is really combat that much. Read the above posts, just about everyone is saying they like GW2 combat for being different. A small few really believe it will change and dominate the MMO genre, most of its fanbase simply want something new.
When you speak of just simply moving, yea it may not be that cool. But when you bundle it with all the other combat features such as environment weapons, cross-class combos, and active vs passive combat, its not really the same as other MMO. Also, the combat is not entirely auto-targetting. Infact, there are various videos showcasing a whole line of skills just being aimed at absolutely nothing. And being able to cast/fire while on the move doesn't mean you are dominating. It's actually the "softer" weapons that are mobile. The stronger ranged weapons are actually more stationary to balance them out.
But in reality, if you've ever played competetive MMO's you'd understand that stopping for 2 seconds everytime you cast makes the game very systematic.
Now to me, GW2 combat is NOT worse than the regular stationary combat. But when you feel it compared to other MMO's, it is certainly not the same. So in theory, if it's not worse (unproven...) and not the same, it only has one direction to be. And that's a notch up, even if ever so slightly.
Just grab your younger sister and show them various combat clips of MMOs and ask them which one looks the most different. I can tell you right now, between LOTRO, WoW, and Rift, my younger wouldn't be able to tell the difference. She also thought FFXIV looked different. But that's more towards it's art...
I don't understand. Have the people who claim this type of combat to be 'refreshing' been hiding under a rock for the past 3-4 years? Age of Conan has the most innovative combat system to date -casters being the exception, but still, they have this thing called spellweaving-
There's 'active blocking' through the positioning of your shields, there's positioning involved as hitting an unprotected side has less dmg mitigation, there's the combo system ofcourse, there's manually dodging by performing double-tap sidesteps, there's an active stunning through double-tapping 'move up', ...
Really, if you have played that game -and I'm talking about the combat only, feel free to talk about the other content or failed implementation of it anywhere else but here- you'll soon realize that the combat of GW2 is dated before it has even been launched or released.
You're talking about moving as one aspect of the GW2 combat that doesn't impress you, then bashing the whole system, as if it's the only aspect.
First off, mobs in GW2 will attack differently than in a holy trinity MMO. They are going to try to kill the ones you'd expect mobs to try to kill, the high damage, low armored, more actually threatening people. Taunting doesn't exist in GW2 and the people in the tanking, (or "controlling" role in GW2 terms) won't just have a lock on aggro due to additional threat. More likely, they'll be trying to knock a mob down from behind while it goes for the caster.
In that kind of system, casting while moving is a necessity, not just a convenience.
It goes hand in hand with being able to dodge attacks and projectiles. Warriors can go into a toggled shield stance that blocks projectiles from hitting players behind them. A tank in PVP goes from either being useless or relying on silly mechanics to being a viable shield wall with a mace to stun the guy trying to go around him.
Anyone can rez anybody else at any time in GW2's system. No longer will it just be that someone screwed up, time to call a wipe. It will allow players to battle back and recover from mistakes. Also, it lets mobs do things that would be pretty unfair in a traditional MMO, like hit really hard. We've already seen video of a dynamic event boss 1-shotting a thief who got careless. That isn't even in the dungeons which will be the hard content.
Different classes use weapons differently. A bow in the hands of a ranger is a single target weapon. In the hands of a warrior, it's an AOE weapon. The feel of combat can totally change based on class and weapon, like using a mace for stuns or a greatsword for melee AOE. It's not like other games where any weapon is as good as any other because they're just doing damage.
Weapons and skills change when going underwater. You can't swing a sword so you use a harpoon gun or a trident and get different skills. Fire magic boils the water instead of just acting the same.
Players have multiple weapon sets, kits or attunements so they can switch up their role in combat. You're not locked into being the tank, dps or healer. You can adopt a different role on the fly to adjust to what you need to be doing.
Different classes can work together with cross profession combos. Arrows shot through a fire wall doing extra damage is the most commonly cited example, but there's supposed to be like 100 of them.
I'm not sure if I missed anything. I'm sure someone will help me out if I did. (EDIT, forgot your skillbar changing when you pick up an environmental weapon, dammit. EDIT#2, I also forgot that there's no ally targeting, so you can look at the screen and not at health bars. Ally healing is done through secondary and AOE effects.)
Anyway, is there any point in the middle of that that GW2 meets the stated goal of kicking combat up a notch?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I have played AoC, and I would say one of the bigger flaws of that game is not that combat is active, but rather the DDR style of combo execution and the blatant advantage casters had over melee in that respect. The shields/whiff potential, lack of auto attack, and the fact that you struck everything in your path with your sword were great innovations and are unfortunately overlooked due to people's prejudice over the other aspects of AoC that did not fare as well.
Unfortunately since I didn't like much else about AoC once I left Tortage, and since as a caster I felt that particular combat innovation did not extend to my class, I am much more excited about what Guild Wars 2 has to offer that not even AoC did. You could say that people are excited because GW2 offers something similar to AoC, but improved, and a chance at the rest of the game not being broken at launch
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The main gripe I had with AoC was that combat was almost a "locked in" sort of mechanic. It's hard to describe really, but even with the evades and stuns, entering combat was like locking into a mechanic for a while. I have always said that AoC could have been better if their combat was a bit more fluid in that everything was more seemless. I like the directional attack and think it should be kept in MMO's, but the way AoC did it, it was made it into something akin to turn-based-puzzle-solving. This of course is not bad, but my opinion is that it could have been much more if only they integrated it a bit more.
First time? DCUO has already been mentioned. It's a real MMO, it's more of an MMO than GW1 was, with less instancing, more raids, more PvE, etc. I doubt anything will beat the action and tactical feel of it's combat for a long time. I'm glad GW2 is trying to add a little to the standard MMO-fare, but it's not the first in anything, and definitely won't be the paradigm.
My question is why just go half measured? An mmo where your characters weapon or projectile has to make 3D contact with it's target based on physics and trajectory would have been pretty revolutionary if done right. This hybrid system just seems odd.
I can understand wondering why GW2 went in the hybrid direction, but having played DCUO I can only say - speaking for myself, of course - thank GOODness they didn't go all the way console-style. I liked the idea of DCUO but I had no desire to have to whip out a controller to play my MMO on my PC, and after a handful of levels I just found the amount of click-and-hold mouse combos to not be worth my while when I just wanted to play the darned game. YMMV of course, but this is also why I dislike games that have entirely free aiming with a target reticule the way TERA is supposed to be.
GW2 is more along the lines of Champions Online, and that's just at the edges of my comfort level. I'm not standing around kicking the shins of NPCs, but I don't have to tie my fingers in knots clicking in increasingly-complex combinations just to fire a rank 3 fireball, either.
I am still not sure if ill like the more active combat or not.
The action side of me is looking forward to the more active combat as it surely will add more need to pay attention and actual skill might become important again.
On the other hand the RPG fan side of me is crying out in pain about this combat system what use it is to build u an eva class if all classes regardless on skilling and equipment can dodge by just hitting 1 button hell building anything else than a Plate wearer will put me in a disadvantage now since i can evade anyway but if i miss the right timing i at least wear the most armor to get best protection.
ANet said in a Video that they wanted to put RPG back into MMORPG and right after that they explained there combat which was really contradicting
I wonder if my gamemaster for Shadowrun will allow me to evade all attacks only course i say i evade worth a try i guess lol
Well not quite the first time in a mmo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZTVB203czE&feature=youtu.be&hd=1 but its nice that Anet is at least trying something different.
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