PvP-Server - constant harassment?

13

Comments

  • Southpaw.GamerSouthpaw.Gamer Guelph, ONMember CommonPosts: 572

    I have always been a PvP guy, I love my PvP... however here is a little story.

     

    A friend of mine bugged me to try WoW again so I agreed.  I had not really played since the early days and had fond memories of the PvP at low levels as one faction would assault the others lands.  My friend begged me not to roll on a PvP server but I did anyways telling him it was great fun... So what happened? Level 80+ characters run around in low level areas one shotting everyone.  I got to level 45+ without finding any decent open world PvP because of the 80+ level players harassing the lowbies.  My friend was right, I had made a terrible choice server wise because the PvP servers were not what they once were.

     

    PvP in themepark level based games SHOULD  be limited to battle-grounds.  It's the only decent PvP you get.  So honestly if I were to play WoW ever again I'd roll on a PvE server so as to avoid these pricks that waste not only my time but theirs since they gain nothing from killing low level players.  

     

    I am a PvP player.. themepark games don't offer PvP.  At least not good PvP

    Full Sail University - Game Design

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAMember UncommonPosts: 568

    Its called "Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning".

    Best PvP MMORPP ever made, when there is a population.

  • Squal'ZellSqual'Zell Montreal, QCMember Posts: 1,803

    Originally posted by NIII

    I generally think corpse camping and ganking should be unmoderated. I think pvp should be completely free of any rules, aside from like, maybe a level restriction (maybe not being able to kill anyone under level 15). I think that it stimulates a good community, forces people to find allies.

    ganking and grieffing is fine to a certain point. 

    when you get to corpse camping, or constant grieffing up to the point that the player can't play at all

    i mean what choices does he have?

    A) keep dying until the grieffer gets tired (and hope that another one doesnt show up)

    B)log off

    C)???

    im serious, what is option C?

    someone won't pay 15$/month to log, die for 10 minutes, log off.

    image
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  • stayontargetstayontarget Tacoma, WAMember UncommonPosts: 6,446

    Originally posted by NIII

    I generally think corpse camping and ganking should be unmoderated. I think pvp should be completely free of any rules, aside from like, maybe a level restriction (maybe not being able to kill anyone under level 15). I think that it stimulates a good community, forces people to find allies.

    You would think that but realistically it does just the opposite,  kill all the sheep and the sheep move on.  Then the wolves have nothing to fight and in turn move on themselves.  Everyone talks about how great UO was but they always fail to mention how horid the retention rate was for the game.  It was one of the main factors that trammel was added which I might add killed the game but then again the player base was killing the game long before trammel.

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • LidaneLidane Austin, TXMember CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by NIII

    I generally think corpse camping and ganking should be unmoderated. I think pvp should be completely free of any rules, aside from like, maybe a level restriction (maybe not being able to kill anyone under level 15). I think that it stimulates a good community, forces people to find allies.

    Not really. In most cases, it just causes people to leave the PvP servers, further marginalizing PvP in a game, or it causes people to leave a game altogether.

    I distinctly remember the spawn point campers on Rallos Zek in EQ1. You'd have high level players killing anyone and everyone who spawned into the game world as soon as they came in. Imagine how much of a douchebag you have to be to repeatedly kill Level 1 players that just created a character and logged into the server for the first time. Log in, die. Respawn, die again. Rinse and repeat.

    Those same douchebags cried about how SOE ruined the game and the server when they put in level restrictions, making anyone under Level 5 immune, giving newbies a chance to even play the game at all.

    Unchecked PvP is a nightmare for any developer, just because there are players who are assholes and who only have fun by ruining the expereinces of others. And it really doesn't do anything but lead to a situation where guilds and groups of players go around and  zerg solo players or smaller groups. That's not fun.

  • SagasaintSagasaint Miami, FLMember UncommonPosts: 461

    Originally posted by crunk001

    What do you think: Is this what's it all about on PvP Servers? Or will there be a difference in the near future?

    for the most part, thats what *might* happen on PvP servers.

    in reality, that practically never happens, just very oddly and almost never to the point of being worth calling it "harassment".

     

    I find funny that in the vast majority of cases, people who decided to play on a PvP server complain THE FIRST TIME that happens.

     

    the problem hardly ever is the PvP server. Its the people that *think* they are PvPers and sign for that kind of servers, when in reality they are not, because they dont accept that might happen to them.

  • KiskaraKiskara Waldorf, MDMember Posts: 47

    Originally posted by Sagasaint


    Originally posted by crunk001


    What do you think: Is this what's it all about on PvP Servers? Or will there be a difference in the near future?

    for the most part, thats what *might* happen on PvP servers.

    in reality, that practically never happens, just very oddly and almost never to the point of being worth calling it "harassment".

     

    I find funny that in the vast majority of cases, people who decided to play on a PvP server complain THE FIRST TIME that happens.

     

    the problem hardly ever is the PvP server. Its the people that *think* they are PvPers and sign for that kind of servers, when in reality they are not, because they dont accept that might happen to them.

    People roll on PvP servrs for the opportunity to fight other players. A lvl 50 camping the lvl 1 - 10 zone is not Pvp. It's being a raging dick. The newbies are discouraged from continuing (on either the server, or the game), and the high lvl hasn't proven anything aside from way too much free time. In that scenario, I think a person should call foul the first time it happens; because it's a dick move of the highest caliber. 

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAMember Posts: 2,951

    Originally posted by Sagasaint


    Originally posted by crunk001


    What do you think: Is this what's it all about on PvP Servers? Or will there be a difference in the near future?

    for the most part, thats what *might* happen on PvP servers.

    in reality, that practically never happens, just very oddly and almost never to the point of being worth calling it "harassment".

     

    I find funny that in the vast majority of cases, people who decided to play on a PvP server complain THE FIRST TIME that happens.

     

    the problem hardly ever is the PvP server. Its the people that *think* they are PvPers and sign for that kind of servers, when in reality they are not, because they dont accept that might happen to them.

    just because it never happened on YOUR single server in your individual experience doesn't discount that it happens and all too often. secondly, i agree with the other guy who replied to your post, it is a DICK move and should be regulated more with better rules of engagement. 

    My experience? I've played multiple mmo's some of which required you to do pvp absolutely at some point (Aion) and i have to say that there is absolutely no justification for a high level to do anything to a low level (and i am talking 8-10 levels or more) while in a pvp zone questing. Aion p!ssed me off because they decided they should give rewards for such behavior in the form of points to be used by the higher levels to actually improve their gear, The idea that this behavior should be rewarded to players who are 30 levels higher then you is the main reason i left their game in the dust where it belongs.

  • djvapiddjvapid Smyrna, GAMember Posts: 80

    The main issue I run into with PvP servers is the community itself, which is, to put it nicely, trash.  L33t speaking kids who use the anonymity of the internet to take out their passive aggressive rage in-game through trolling and griefing because their parents don't love them enough.  Ahem. 

     

    To put it better, I'll not go out there to generalize the entire PvP community, but I think it's safe to say that a very large percentage of them provide a very negative enviroment to try and play a game in.  You'll notice that the number of trolls and griefers (if you can even distinguish categorically between the two) increase in favor of PvP and theme oriented games and decrease dramatically in favor of sandbox games. 

     

    In answer to your question:  If you can't swim, don't jump in the pool.  And yes, it's always been like that.

  • djvapiddjvapid Smyrna, GAMember Posts: 80

    Originally posted by Lidane


    Originally posted by NIII


    I generally think corpse camping and ganking should be unmoderated. I think pvp should be completely free of any rules, aside from like, maybe a level restriction (maybe not being able to kill anyone under level 15). I think that it stimulates a good community, forces people to find allies.

    Not really. In most cases, it just causes people to leave the PvP servers, further marginalizing PvP in a game, or it causes people to leave a game altogether.

    I distinctly remember the spawn point campers on Rallos Zek in EQ1. You'd have high level players killing anyone and everyone who spawned into the game world as soon as they came in. Imagine how much of a douchebag you have to be to repeatedly kill Level 1 players that just created a character and logged into the server for the first time. Log in, die. Respawn, die again. Rinse and repeat.

    Those same douchebags cried about how SOE ruined the game and the server when they put in level restrictions, making anyone under Level 5 immune, giving newbies a chance to even play the game at all.

    Unchecked PvP is a nightmare for any developer, just because there are players who are assholes and who only have fun by ruining the expereinces of others. And it really doesn't do anything but lead to a situation where guilds and groups of players go around and  zerg solo players or smaller groups. That's not fun.

    Word.  End thread.

  • SuprGamerXSuprGamerX Montreal, QCMember Posts: 531

     The problem with PVP servers these days , again , is the ammount of pricks that are allowed to play.  The only thing that concerns them is pissing people off , ruin gamers fun and in the end ,alot of those victims become care bears.

      The game with the best PVP system that I've seen is Nexus : Kingdom of the winds.

    They got Daily PvP events , Capture the flag , and other types (Haven't played for about 7-8 years since I've played for about 7 years)

      Granted the graphics suck , the game play might suck , but the PvP is right on the money and what a MMO should be all about in regards of PvP.   

      It's only a game and we need to remember that losing all our gear we worked hard for to a bunch of pricks is nothing close to being fun.  PvP is all about fun and getting to know each other and in the end of a PvP event , get back at killing mobs for drops and such.   That's what a real MMO needs to re-become again.  And probably why every MMO since .... hell since mid 2000's suck.  PvP has become a game of pussies that brag when they kill someone 10 vs 1. I mean seriously, is that really what PvP has become? A bunch of kids bragging on ganking someone?   Pretty pathetic if you ask me. 

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgMember Posts: 2,088

    I never found PvP that fun in todays themepark MMOs due to simple fact you dont lose anything while dying, no dropping any items, no harsh death penalty, no naked corpse running ect.

    Only thing you really lose is the time it take you from loading in again after you died.

    That's why there are so many wannabe hardcore pvpers that greif,ganging left and right, they dont lose anything if they die they just respawn.

     

    Reading the RIFT forums always makes me laugh when these so called hardcore pvpers telling carebears to play on a PVE server beacuse they cant  handle "real" PVP.

    The fun part with these guys is they are the biggest carebears there is, I bet if game studios implent harcher death penalty and rules howe much you can murder like in UO, half the wannabe hardcore pvpers will whine like little girls.

    The ones that are left are the real pvpers.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 339

    He's right...

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  • Nerf09Nerf09 Phoenix, AZMember CommonPosts: 2,953

    Originally posted by Kiskara


    Originally posted by Sagasaint



    Originally posted by crunk001


    What do you think: Is this what's it all about on PvP Servers? Or will there be a difference in the near future?

    for the most part, thats what *might* happen on PvP servers.

    in reality, that practically never happens, just very oddly and almost never to the point of being worth calling it "harassment".

     

    I find funny that in the vast majority of cases, people who decided to play on a PvP server complain THE FIRST TIME that happens.

     

    the problem hardly ever is the PvP server. Its the people that *think* they are PvPers and sign for that kind of servers, when in reality they are not, because they dont accept that might happen to them.

    People roll on PvP servrs for the opportunity to fight other players. A lvl 50 camping the lvl 1 - 10 zone is not Pvp. It's being a raging dick. The newbies are discouraged from continuing (on either the server, or the game), and the high lvl hasn't proven anything aside from way too much free time. In that scenario, I think a person should call foul the first time it happens; because it's a dick move of the highest caliber. 

    A progression-grind game is not very conducive to good PVP.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDMember Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Nerf09


    Originally posted by Kiskara



    Originally posted by Sagasaint



    Originally posted by crunk001


    ...

    A progression-grind game is not very conducive to good PVP.

    I agree.  I think the two approaches to resolve the problem are:

    1.  Severely close the power gap between players so that a max level player is not all that much more powerful than a low level player.

    2.  Take the GW approach and keep your competitive PvP completely separate from PvE.  You can still have a more "just for fun" PvP where players can use their PvE characters, but it should be consensual.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Phoenix, AZMember CommonPosts: 2,953

    Originally posted by Creslin321


    Originally posted by Nerf09



    Originally posted by Kiskara



    Originally posted by Sagasaint



    Originally posted by crunk001


    ...

    A progression-grind game is not very conducive to good PVP.

    I agree.  I think the two approaches to resolve the problem are:

    1.  Severely close the power gap between players so that a max level player is not all that much more powerful than a low level player.

    2.  Take the GW approach and keep your competitive PvP completely separate from PvE.  You can still have a more "just for fun" PvP where players can use their PvE characters, but it should be consensual.

    I made a post on an idea to make PVP fun in the WOW subforum/WOW-idea sub-subforum; a combination of WOW as it exists today and Real Time Strategy Warcraft-Warcraft.

  • DJahyDJahy powder springs, GAMember Posts: 4

    when you sign up for a PvP server, you are consenting to being ganked and camped by opposing forces.

    Examples of PvP:



    -A player attacking another player.

    -A player attacking a player-controlled vehicle (PCV).

    -A PCV attacking a player.

    -A PCV attacking a PCV.

    -A high level player attacking a low level player.

    -A low level player attacking a high level player.

    -A single player attacking a group of players.

    -A group of players attacking a single player.

    -A group of players attacking a group of players.

    People that WILLINGLY sign up for a PvP server, and then complain about getting attacked by a group, are the funniest kind of QQ posts to me.



     

    “I am on a drug – it’s called Charlie Sheen. It’s not available because if you try it, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body.”

  • LidaneLidane Austin, TXMember CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by DJahy
    Examples of PvP:



    -A high level player attacking a low level player.

    -A group of players attacking a single player.

    Those aren't examples of PvP. Those are examples of dick moves in PvP.

    There's no honor and no class in a high level player repeatedly ganking a newbie. And a group of players attacking a single player are just a zerg mob without any real skill or sense of fair play. That's like saying that a pack of wild dogs ripping  apart a smaller animal are somehow better hunters than the single predator that goes after the wild dogs and picks them off one at a time.

    People don't sign up for PvP to willingly be ganked or corpse camped. That's a line of bullshit that the people who get off on ruining the expereinces of others toss around to try and muddle the issue. People sign up for PvP to have human opponents mixed in with the NPCs in the game. PvP provides an extra challenge, but there's no challenge in a game where PvP consists of zerg guilds and asshole corpse campers. At that point, the game is just an exercise in frustration.

    Ever wonder why PvP is often the most marginalized part of these games? It's not because people can't handle PvP. The sheer popularity of shooters shows that gamers like competing against others. PvP is the most marginalized part of MMOs because most players just aren't willing to put up with immature douchebags who repeatedly corpse camp them or zerg rush them then complain when people leave the server.

  • DJahyDJahy powder springs, GAMember Posts: 4

    Damn did I strike a nerve? Is the newbie being controlled by a person behind a monitor? Is the ganker being controlled by a person behind a keyboard? Sounds like PvP to me. It is not called F/CPvP (Fair/Consented Player vs Player) for a good reason. No one said it is has to be fair or equal-level playing field Like I said, you signed up for it, it wasn't randomly chosen for you, prepare to deal with the possibility of it happeneing.

    “I am on a drug – it’s called Charlie Sheen. It’s not available because if you try it, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body.”

  • LidaneLidane Austin, TXMember CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by DJahy


    Is the newbie being controlled by a person behind a monitor? Is the ganker being controlled by a person behind a keyboard? Sounds like PvP to me. It is not called F/CPvP (Fair/Consented Player vs Player) for a good reason. No one said it is has to be fair or equal-level playing field Like I said, you signed up for it, it wasn't randomly chosen for you, prepare to deal with the possibility of it happeneing.

    That's a load of crap. And it's why PvP is a marginal part of most MMOs, or ends up confined to battlegrounds and arenas.

    Some people just feel justified in being assholes and ruining the experiences of others, then claiming that everyone else "signed up for it". Developers then have to choose whether to cater to the assholes or to the larger audience that won't put up with that kind of behavior. Guess who they're going to pick, at least if they want their game to survive.

    There's no honor in a Level 1 player being killed by a Level 85 as soon as he enters the game. None. I don't care that the Level 1 is willingly on a PvP server. He didn't sign up for some douche to repeatedly spawn and corpse camp him and otherwise keep him from playing the game at all. That's not PvP. It's just some guy using a PvP ruleset as  an excuse to be a dick.

  • DJahyDJahy powder springs, GAMember Posts: 4

    It's a load of crap, but please tell me where in my statement am I lying? I am providing you with facts, and you are just brushing it under the rug and making ridiculous outburst. I assume we are talking about WoW, hmm, let's look at their PvP server policy:

    We are unable to assist with the following issues:

    Actions that would typically be considered "dishonorable" are considered legitimate PvP tactics and will not be addressed by our Game Master (GM) staff. "Dishonorable" actions include, but are not limited to:


    • Corpse camping.

    • Tricking players into getting flagged for PvP (i.e. jumping in the middle of another player's area effect spell).

    • Killing players well below your level.


    Ongoing Harassment

    The Ongoing Harassment policy does not apply when there is a PvP resolution available, as physical confrontations are considered a facet of PvP combat and players in opposing factions are unable to communicate verbally.

    Read the underlined carefully!!! and why won't they intervene, because YOU WILLINGLY SIGNED UP TO PLAY ON A PVP SERVER!!!!!

    From Blizz themselves,  {mod edit}

    “I am on a drug – it’s called Charlie Sheen. It’s not available because if you try it, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body.”

  • NadiaNadia Topsham, MaineMember UncommonPosts: 11,866

    a level 10 vs a level 85 ?

    yes its allowed and recognized as pvp by the game developers

     

    but its also the kind of pvp that most players have no interest in

  • BogeBoge Orem, ORMember Posts: 182

    It's about what the gamer makes it about.  We live in a deathmatch gaming world.  The kiddies love to "pwn nubs" and "teabag" other players.  I think it's a self esteem issue.  They feel the need for those kinds of victories over other players because when they push someone down, it makes them feel better, it makes them feel like they can do something better than someone else.

    It won't change in 99% of the games because there are too many out there that think like this.  They don't want a fair challenge.  A game of Chess against someone is their great grandpas way of having a challenge.  Nowadays it's the elite, uber pwning way, where the only fair is playing unfair.

    I think it's a big way for those troubled teenagers to vent their inner frustration, and to rebel like many teens do.  It's more healthy than doing other things in real life.

    However, I honestly think it's hurting people's mentality.  People are treating others rude, not even just in game, but online, and probably in real life too (I don't mingle with those kind, so I couldn't tell you).

     

    It will only get worse though.

     

  • JoonasJoonas HelsinkiMember Posts: 21

    Originally posted by DJahy

    It's a load of crap, but please tell me where in my statement am I lying? I am providing you with facts, and you are just brushing it under the rug and making ridiculous outburst. I assume we are talking about WoW, hmm, let's look at their PvP server policy:
    - - - -
    Read the underlined carefully!!! and why won't they intervene, because YOU WILLINGLY SIGNED UP TO PLAY ON A PVP SERVER!!!!!
    From Blizz themselves,{mod edit}

     Hmm, I didn't know that. Now they should make a pvp server that considers dishonorable tactics as illegitimate so that good people could enjoy pvp servers as well. I've got a question though, if you played in such a server, would you refrain from doing all things Blizzard considers dishonorable? Or would you keep on playing just like you're doing now (supposing that you play wow in a pvp server)? Your answer shows whether or not you actually care about the rules, and I think that it's safe to say that you do not.

  • MartinmasMartinmas Austin, TXMember UncommonPosts: 239

     






    Originally posted by DJahy

    {mod edit}


     

    Where is the honor in a Level 1 killing a Level 85? That makes no sense.

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