Sandbox vs Themepark Discussion Thread

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  • LogumLogum Member UncommonPosts: 10
    Sandbox is the future, theme park is the past...but we need big investment in the sandbox from big names.
    pantaro

    PVP Videos & Guides at http://www.aboutpvp.com

  • AomaAoma Member CommonPosts: 1
    @DLangley for
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage CaliforniaMember UncommonPosts: 992
    Themeparks are for kids.
  • JonfaJonfa Member CommonPosts: 1
    @DLangley sandbox
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage CaliforniaMember UncommonPosts: 992
    edited May 11
    I think we should learn something from the movie industry.

    Remakes and Sequels are not often as successful as the Originals.

    There are a few exceptions to this rule:

    Star Wars
    Indiana Jones
    The Lord of the Rings
    some superhero films

    However, most of the time, the exceptions are the cases where the sequels were actually continuations and completions of a longer story. 

    So, I don't know why people in the game industry allowed themselves to believe so fervently for so long that they could had a good chance of becoming just as successful as Everquest or World of Warcraft by producing Remakes and Sequels.

    You can't re-invent the wheel, but you can certainly re-invent MMORPGs anytime you want.
    Post edited by cantankerousmage on
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 193
    edited May 20
    ApexTKM said:
    I just want to say, I notice people make assumptions whenever I mention I want to PvP in sandbox mainly over themepark.

    They think I want a mostly PvP mmo which is not the case. It baffles me when they mention Darkfall or mention FFA OPvP. In terms of mmorpgs, 90 percent PvP, 10 percent PvE is a recipe for failure.
    I agree with this I think, if you mean what I think you do. I also prefer a 90/10 PvE to PvP experience in an open world MMORPG. This means most of the time I'm doing PvE. In fact I'd say 95 percent or more has been PvE.

    It's mainly the element of danger makes me prefer it over pure PvE.

    I really like sandboxes. When I first played Everquest, I always imagined building houses and cities would be a standard element of MMORPGs. Back then I thought it was just a natural way to improve them. I still feel the same now.

    That was what I liked so mcuh about Ultima Online.

    Now I'm playing Wurm Online. It's very grindy I guess, but it's what I hoped MMORPGs would become. Only thing it's missing are more interesting monsters, both above and below the surface. I'd like to see the monsters make camps or forts and present more of a challenge for players. On PvE servers this could compensate for the lack of content in the combat portion. I'd also like true 3d tunnels. It focuses so much of its development on building, I think this part of it's negelected.

    Well it's missing that and perhaps bettter mechanics for the skills and the villages. At present its design makes village life more grindy.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • ApexTKMApexTKM Starkiller BaseMember UncommonPosts: 334
    ApexTKM said:
    I just want to say, I notice people make assumptions whenever I mention I want to PvP in sandbox mainly over themepark.

    They think I want a mostly PvP mmo which is not the case. It baffles me when they mention Darkfall or mention FFA OPvP. In terms of mmorpgs, 90 percent PvP, 10 percent PvE is a recipe for failure.
    I agree with this I think, if you mean what I think you do. I also prefer a 90/10 PvE to PvP experience in an open world MMORPG. This means most of the time I'm doing PvE. In fact I'd say 95 percent or more has been PvE.

    It's mainly the element of danger makes me prefer it over pure PvE.

    That is also a recipe for failure, there has to be some kind of balance to make the entire universe of an mmo go around. Neglecting faction conflict makes it less of a full mmo experience and nerfs immersion. I want to see a lot going on, complex crafting, a war going on at some player's city, deep economy etc. I want to see each feature of the mmo to connect to each other if you know what I mean. Every feature and aspect is important for an mmo experience. Sure you can say some mmos(majority PvE, minority PvP 90 percent PvE 10 percent PvP as you say) like WoW have been successful in terms of selling their game and having many subscribers.

    But to me personally when I want to feel like I'm living in a whole new other universe you can't neglect a single feature. I did imply PvP is my cup of tea and something that I like to participate in often but doesn't mean I'm looking for darkfall or something like that nor does it mean that I'm looking for a 90 percent PvE 10 percent PvP mmo.

    I bolded my important points fyi.
    Brald_Ironheart
    The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.

    But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
  • EldurianEldurian Member RarePosts: 1,412
    ApexTKM said:
    ApexTKM said:
    I just want to say, I notice people make assumptions whenever I mention I want to PvP in sandbox mainly over themepark.

    They think I want a mostly PvP mmo which is not the case. It baffles me when they mention Darkfall or mention FFA OPvP. In terms of mmorpgs, 90 percent PvP, 10 percent PvE is a recipe for failure.
    I agree with this I think, if you mean what I think you do. I also prefer a 90/10 PvE to PvP experience in an open world MMORPG. This means most of the time I'm doing PvE. In fact I'd say 95 percent or more has been PvE.

    It's mainly the element of danger makes me prefer it over pure PvE.

    That is also a recipe for failure, there has to be some kind of balance to make the entire universe of an mmo go around. Neglecting faction conflict makes it less of a full mmo experience and nerfs immersion. I want to see a lot going on, complex crafting, a war going on at some player's city, deep economy etc. I want to see each feature of the mmo to connect to each other if you know what I mean. Every feature and aspect is important for an mmo experience. Sure you can say some mmos(majority PvE, minority PvP 90 percent PvE 10 percent PvP as you say) like WoW have been successful in terms of selling their game and having many subscribers.

    But to me personally when I want to feel like I'm living in a whole new other universe you can't neglect a single feature. I did imply PvP is my cup of tea and something that I like to participate in often but doesn't mean I'm looking for darkfall or something like that nor does it mean that I'm looking for a 90 percent PvE 10 percent PvP mmo.

    I bolded my important points fyi.
    If the factions aren't set by the player that's a huge immersion nerf to me. There is no immersion in fighting alongside people I despise against people I like because of the color of team we picked at the start of the game.

    I do think it's a bit of an immersion nerf when people who choose to live a safer life can't go live in safer areas an not expect to be attacked at every turn too. Existing sandboxes have done little in the way to add mechanics that increase cooperation that are there in real life.

    For instances if you control a city and you control the tax rates then when "noots" come into your territory for economic purposes only the most backwards and barbaric societies are going to straight up and kill them. Most people will see the value in letting people come trade in their territory and pay their taxes.

    If we had more game mechanics that supported people actually being able to tax trade in their land in a reasonable way and more game mechanics that allowed people to see the benefit of letting others come and trade and work in territory they control, then you wouldn't see people kill everyone who crosses their borders in these kind of games.
    Brald_Ironheart
  • IwayloIwaylo Member UncommonPosts: 161
    Sandbox MMORPG sounds good, but it's rather hard to execute. I can't think of any good sandbox MMORPGs. Everyones playing games like World of Warcraft, FF14, GW2 and so on i mean those are most populated MMORPGs and that aint sandbox MMORPGs. I as PvP player love instanced PvP arenas n such and i think that goes against Sandbox(?) not cool then.
  • SteelhelmSteelhelm LahtiMember UncommonPosts: 235
    The difference between themeparks and sandboxes to me are mostly that, themeparks are plays with predefined plots and very limited options for interacting with the environment in where the player plays the role of an actor acting out a predefined play and sandboxes are actual games where winning and losing and failure and success are both plausible and the player has multiple options on how to play and act out and interact with the environment and therefore becoming more of a player than an actor in pivotal meaning.
    Eldurian

    image
  • EldurianEldurian Member RarePosts: 1,412
    edited July 21
    Steelhelm said:
    The difference between themeparks and sandboxes to me are mostly that, themeparks are plays with predefined plots and very limited options for interacting with the environment in where the player plays the role of an actor acting out a predefined play and sandboxes are actual games where winning and losing and failure and success are both plausible and the player has multiple options on how to play and act out and interact with the environment and therefore becoming more of a player than an actor in pivotal meaning.
    I kind of disagree that making a game linear makes it not a game anymore. But I agree that there is a substantial difference where your character is playing through a plotline the developers made for them with a limited number of choices, as opposed to a sandbox where a player creates their own plot in a world of nearly limitless choices.

    As I mentioned earlier in this topic Minecraft is the ultimate example as a sandbox game, while the original Super Mario is the ultimate example of a non-sandbox game. They are both games. One a classic and one guaranteed to go down in history as a classic. But the difference between them is so night and day.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
  • nerovergilnerovergil klMember UncommonPosts: 630
    edited July 22
    themepark is like number 1-10

    while themepark is like number 1-999999999999999999999999999999999999

    of course u need to start with 1-10 to randomly generate 99999999999999999999999999999

    themepark is a fraction of sandbox
    Post edited by nerovergil on
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