You can't trust X-box neither, they kicked 1million + users who had there systems hacked with free games. The real question is "we need a super new platform console gaming mechine or is this the end of console gaming. Probably they will make everything super cheap who knows. Technology is faster than ever, pc's run faster than, more highly developed programs, consoles don't have a chance. From experience I had a friend with a hacked Nintendo DS with 4 games in a small memory chip. So there... console games are free in the hidden internet pirate markets.
Banning modified consoles from Xbox Live is perfectly acceptable. Microsoft has the right to demand that every console connected to their network is unmodified.
Difference with Sony is that not only do they want you to stay disconnected from their network but they don't want you to mod or own a modified console in the first place. Sure MS don't want it either, but they don't go on a manhunt.
yes but save from certain games, all good ones have on pc too so its pointless to get a x-box (at least for me), PS3 same things though now they have more games but even so I don't see the point of having both systems.
its funny though XD ps1 and 2 had a lot of piracy and they was the most console and games around but ever since ps3 came out its only problem.
in anycase I don't hink is the console who is lacking is the whole industry, every new tittle I feel even less inclined to play new things, older games are a lot more fun then a lot of this new games, I still wonder why I play too, maybe it time to bury this hobby and find another thing less annoying then gamming
its funny though XD ps1 and 2 had a lot of piracy and they was the most console and games around but ever since ps3 came out its only problem.
And they realized how much money they, and especially their third party developers, lost because of this. So yes, its very natural to try to stop it this time around.
2) I have said I do feel bad for the customers affected, though they should have known something like this with this specific comapny could/would happen.
Here's the thing though, those customers that were hit had nothing to do with an SOE that many MMO gamers here (of which the majority of that group would be old SWG pre-NGE gamers) seem to hate, but had contact with completely different companies of Sony and Sony products. And as Malickie already said, those other divisions and those products have no link in any way with SOE, many Sony products like recorders and tv screens and Playstation consoles and such are wellknown and appreciated in lots of households. So why should they have been distrustful towards Sony?
But again, none of this has anything to do with what I initially responded to your comments about which was that the hackers did what they logically had to do to get the most negative effect against Sony/SOE. All of this other talk about morals, right and wrong against the company and such has nothing to do with their attack not being "insane logic" as you put it and as I disagree. It was very much "sane logic" to accomplish the goals they wanted.
Take a look at your earlier posts: at one side you were defending the hackers' actions (note, not the hackers but their approach) because it made perfect sense logically, at the other side you professed to be happy that it happened to Sony bc of your SWG experience with them and (partially) not feeling that bad for the people affected since they according to you should have known better than using Sony products, which is clearly not a logical stance towards the situation but an emotional one. Hence the long debate about this.
Anyway, your later posts cleared up any obscurity or confusion I might have regarding your viewpoint, so thanks for that, it helped make things clear to me. Not that I agree with it all, in fact with some of your stances I firmly disagree.
At this point I fear our discussion will turn into nothing but a rehash of former arguments, so I'm going to leave it at this
Well, let's get one thing straight as I'm not going to sit here and let you lie about what I said. I never "defended" their actions. That's, again, just your emotional take on what I said because I didn't jump on board blasting them in the same emotional manner you did.
No, I didn't defend their actions. Defending their actions assumes that I feel their actions were right for which I've said a few time that I didn't. I mere stated their actions were logical for their apparent desired effect. It's the same as saying the sky is blue or that grass is green. You need to grasp the concept that people can make a factual statement about something but not have any emotional take (being I think it's right or I think it's wrong) on it.
No, you instead tried to put emotional or moral emphasis behind all of what I said, without even asking me indeed how I felt about it, and then whipped out the paint brush to color me evil.
You mainly just don't agree that people should hold a grudge against SOE. As I said in PM that is about 100% hypocritical considering that if you are at least 20+ years of age I'm sure there has been a business or service for which you have decided that you would not ever use again. This is the same thing. And I'm sure that, while you don't spend your nights wishing ill to that business or service you have sworn off, it certainly wouldn't break your heart if something bad happened to it, such as having to close down. Well, that's how I feel about SOE and subsequently Sony.
Yes, this discussion has gone on far too long. Especially since the majority of it deviated from the initial single point and that wild moral based assumptions were made against that point when I was just stating a fact:
Their actions were logical with respect to causing the effect they desired.
Peace
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Well, let's get one thing straight as I'm not going to sit here and let you lie about what I said. I never "defended" their actions. That's, again, just your emotional take on what I said because I didn't jump on board blasting them in the same emotional manner you did.
Ok, I said I'd leave it be, but if you're going this road, well, it's just too interesting for it not to respond
Sorry to say, but from your posts in this thread I think I can say that you're more emotionally involved and less neutral in feelings towards Sony/SOE than I am. I'm indifferent towards SOE/Sony, as I'm indifferent towards NCSoft or a Cryptic or Square Enix or even an Activision or EA. Also, I have no bitter feelings as left over from a situation happening 6 years ago, enough that it could make me feel joy or happiness when misery happens to Sony as some feeling of vengeance.
So, in this case it's a pot-kettle-black thing.
No, I didn't defend their actions. Defending their actions assumes that I feel their actions were right for which I've said a few time that I didn't. I mere stated their actions were logical for their apparent desired effect. It's the same as saying the sky is blue or that grass is green. You need to grasp the concept that people can make a factual statement about something but not have any emotional take (being I think it's right or I think it's wrong) on it.
I already mentioned in PM's and posts that I saw the brutal logic of their actions, why do you keep hammering on this point? Ok, let's use the word 'understand' then. You fully understand their actions. And you don't feel bad that it happened. Well, a bit bad for the people it happened to, but only partially because they should have known better than using Sony products, because "it's a terrible company to do business with"
No, you instead tried to put emotional or moral emphasis behind all of what I said, without even asking me indeed how I felt about it, and then whipped out the paint brush to color me evil.
No need to ask. You already mentioned how you felt about it, in your very first reply on me. See the post below, yellow part 1)
You mainly just don't agree that people should hold a grudge against SOE. As I said in PM that is about 100% hypocritical considering that if you are at least 20+ years of age I'm sure there has been a business or service for which you have decided that you would not ever use again. This is the same thing. And I'm sure that, while you don't spend your nights wishing ill to that business or service you have sworn off, it certainly wouldn't break your heart if something bad happened to it, such as having to close down. Well, that's how I feel about SOE and subsequently Sony.
Heh, nice tactic, throwing the 'hypocrite' card as if you know me. To answer it, no, there hasn't. There has been no company that I felt hurt by that I didn't do business with them anymore. There has been an internet service provider that delivered a flawed service that provided annoyance enough that I left their service, but I have no feelings of enmity towards them, nor would I avoid their services for the rest of my life. Same with MMO companies, if they changed a game I played so much that it became less fun for me to play it, I'd shake me head or sigh, even complain about it at the moment, but then I simply moved on. It's what most people do.
What I certainly wouldn't do is extrapolate any feelings of enmity or dislike from a subcompany like SOE towards the whole Sony corporation, disavowing all Sony products because of a game, that their daughter company or some people in it changed so that I had less fun with it. And I also wouldn't hold a grudge or a 6+ year enmity towards them because of it - not meaning you here, but a general observation regarding (some) SWG vets on these forums.
Then again, to each their own.
Yes, this discussion has gone on far too long. Especially since the majority of it deviated from the initial single point and that wild moral based assumptions were made against that point when I was just stating a fact:
Their actions were logical with respect to causing the effect they desired.
Peace
Thanks, peace to you too
Oh, the post I was referring to above at 1)
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
First, watch yourself at this moment when you are personally hurt and with respect to your narrowly defining people. A wrong done to you does not give you right to do wrong to others, even if it is only forum reputation.
That said I'm a SWG vet that doesn't spend my ever day wishing for bad stuff to happen but I certainly don't feel bad about things like this happening to Sony/SOE. I feel bad for the people whose information got put out there, but the other part of me says not to feel too bad as many (of which I was one) have pointed out terrible of a company this is to do business with. It's like telling someone not to play Russian Roulette with a .44 Magnum, and they ignore you anyway. Well, once they shoot their toe off, are you gonna feel bad? I wouldn't.
Regardless of the sometimes-on-the-edge-of-flaming ad hominem ripostes, overall I found it an interesting and enlightening discussion. I mean, what fun is a discussion without passion or where people do nothing but only agree with eachother's viewpoints
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Well, let's get one thing straight as I'm not going to sit here and let you lie about what I said. I never "defended" their actions. That's, again, just your emotional take on what I said because I didn't jump on board blasting them in the same emotional manner you did.
Ok, I said I'd leave it be, but if you're going this road, well, it's just too interesting for it not to respond
Sorry to say, but from your posts in this thread I think I can say that you're more emotionally involved and less neutral in feelings towards Sony/SOE than I am. I'm indifferent towards SOE/Sony, as I'm indifferent towards NCSoft or a Cryptic or Square Enix or even an Activision or EA. Also, I have no bitter feelings as left over from a situation happening 6 years ago, enough that it could make me feel joy or happiness when misery happens to Sony as some feeling of vengeance.
So, in this case it's a pot-kettle-black thing.
And you are more emotionally invloved and less neutral about the whole hacking incident. I'm indifferent about bad things happening to Sony/SOE. IF some thing does, though, I smile and continue on. As simple as that.
No, I didn't defend their actions. Defending their actions assumes that I feel their actions were right for which I've said a few time that I didn't. I mere stated their actions were logical for their apparent desired effect. It's the same as saying the sky is blue or that grass is green. You need to grasp the concept that people can make a factual statement about something but not have any emotional take (being I think it's right or I think it's wrong) on it.
I already mentioned in PM's and posts that I saw the brutal logic of their actions, why do you keep hammering on this point? Ok, let's use the word 'understand' then. You fully understand their actions. And you don't feel bad that it happened. Well, a bit bad for the people it happened to, but only partially because they should have known better than using Sony products, because "it's a terrible company to do business with"
I keep bringing it up, Maverick, because Iit was the ONLY point I was discussing. You brought up all of the other junk regarding "defending their actions" and whether those actions were "moral", etc., etc. YOu did. Not me. You need to finish sentences to. "And you don't feel bad that it happened TO SONY/SOE."
No, you instead tried to put emotional or moral emphasis behind all of what I said, without even asking me indeed how I felt about it, and then whipped out the paint brush to color me evil.
No need to ask. You already mentioned how you felt about it, in your very first reply on me. See the post below, yellow part 1)
And even here, despite highlighting yourself in yellow the part where i said expressly I don't spend my days wishing Sony/SOE harm, you still try to paint me as one who does. If you aren't going to acknowledge that, why should I, or anyone, acknowledge your comments below about that you have never decided not to use a business or service based on bad interactions with a company.
You mainly just don't agree that people should hold a grudge against SOE. As I said in PM that is about 100% hypocritical considering that if you are at least 20+ years of age I'm sure there has been a business or service for which you have decided that you would not ever use again. This is the same thing. And I'm sure that, while you don't spend your nights wishing ill to that business or service you have sworn off, it certainly wouldn't break your heart if something bad happened to it, such as having to close down. Well, that's how I feel about SOE and subsequently Sony.
Heh, nice tactic, throwing the 'hypocrite' card as if you know me. To answer it, no, there hasn't. There has been no company that I felt hurt by that I didn't do business with them anymore. There has been an internet service provider that delivered a flawed service that provided annoyance enough that I left their service, but I have no feelings of enmity towards them, nor would I avoid their services for the rest of my life. Same with MMO companies, if they changed a game I played so much that it became less fun for me to play it, I'd shake me head or sigh, even complain about it at the moment, but then I simply moved on. It's what most people do.
You threw the "terroist" and 911 card as if you knew me. Indeed, that's been alot of the trouble with this whole thing. You took a handfull of comments I made and responded as if you knew me sum total.
What I certainly wouldn't do is extrapolate any feelings of enmity or dislike from a subcompany like SOE towards the whole Sony corporation, disavowing all Sony products because of a game, that their daughter company or some people in it changed so that I had less fun with it. And I also wouldn't hold a grudge or a 6+ year enmity towards them because of it - not meaning you here, but a general observation regarding (some) SWG vets on these forums.
To each their own.
Then again, to each their own.
Yes, this discussion has gone on far too long. Especially since the majority of it deviated from the initial single point and that wild moral based assumptions were made against that point when I was just stating a fact:
Their actions were logical with respect to causing the effect they desired.
Peace
Thanks, peace to you too
Oh, the post I was referring to above at 1)
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
First, watch yourself at this moment when you are personally hurt and with respect to your narrowly defining people. A wrong done to you does not give you right to do wrong to others, even if it is only forum reputation.
That said I'm a SWG vet that doesn't spend my ever day wishing for bad stuff to happen but I certainly don't feel bad about things like this happening to Sony/SOE. I feel bad for the people whose information got put out there, but the other part of me says not to feel too bad as many (of which I was one) have pointed out terrible of a company this is to do business with. It's like telling someone not to play Russian Roulette with a .44 Magnum, and they ignore you anyway. Well, once they shoot their toe off, are you gonna feel bad? I wouldn't.
Regardless of the sometimes-on-the-edge-of-flaming ad hominem ripostes, overall I found it an interesting and enlightening discussion. I mean, what fun is a discussion without passion or where people do nothing but only agree with eachother's viewpoints
Yeah, after I got past the part of you calling me a terroist it turn out to be a long discussion. I won't say good because I think the whole thing was unnecessary as I know you misinterpreted (not on purpose) the meaning and point from which I was stating. Such is the nature of internet forums.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
In the long run and big picture those low life hackers who deserve a bullet are doing you a favor. It's technological growing pains.
Keep giving your identity away to mega corporations who don't care an ounce about you and see what happens.
These companies are mining data. Why do they need your address and phone number on record? Why do grocery stores only offer you fair prices if you use their littel cards that store all your personal info? .
So they can make geographic consumer reports to improve their profits... They view as cattle... A cash crop to be monitored and exploited. They don't even have the respect to secure the info they've collected from you.
Personally I find the whole thing hilarious.
So if a bank robber goes into the bank shoots the people working there and takes the money,he is doing us a favor since the banks have to sharpen their security?
Comments
yes but save from certain games, all good ones have on pc too so its pointless to get a x-box (at least for me), PS3 same things though now they have more games but even so I don't see the point of having both systems.
its funny though XD ps1 and 2 had a lot of piracy and they was the most console and games around but ever since ps3 came out its only problem.
in anycase I don't hink is the console who is lacking is the whole industry, every new tittle I feel even less inclined to play new things, older games are a lot more fun then a lot of this new games, I still wonder why I play too, maybe it time to bury this hobby and find another thing less annoying then gamming
And they realized how much money they, and especially their third party developers, lost because of this. So yes, its very natural to try to stop it this time around.http://gizmodo.com/5808324/find-out-of-your-sony-information-was-leaked-right-here
Well, let's get one thing straight as I'm not going to sit here and let you lie about what I said. I never "defended" their actions. That's, again, just your emotional take on what I said because I didn't jump on board blasting them in the same emotional manner you did.
No, I didn't defend their actions. Defending their actions assumes that I feel their actions were right for which I've said a few time that I didn't. I mere stated their actions were logical for their apparent desired effect. It's the same as saying the sky is blue or that grass is green. You need to grasp the concept that people can make a factual statement about something but not have any emotional take (being I think it's right or I think it's wrong) on it.
No, you instead tried to put emotional or moral emphasis behind all of what I said, without even asking me indeed how I felt about it, and then whipped out the paint brush to color me evil.
You mainly just don't agree that people should hold a grudge against SOE. As I said in PM that is about 100% hypocritical considering that if you are at least 20+ years of age I'm sure there has been a business or service for which you have decided that you would not ever use again. This is the same thing. And I'm sure that, while you don't spend your nights wishing ill to that business or service you have sworn off, it certainly wouldn't break your heart if something bad happened to it, such as having to close down. Well, that's how I feel about SOE and subsequently Sony.
Yes, this discussion has gone on far too long. Especially since the majority of it deviated from the initial single point and that wild moral based assumptions were made against that point when I was just stating a fact:
Their actions were logical with respect to causing the effect they desired.
Peace
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Thanks, peace to you too
Oh, the post I was referring to above at 1)
Regardless of the sometimes-on-the-edge-of-flaming ad hominem ripostes, overall I found it an interesting and enlightening discussion. I mean, what fun is a discussion without passion or where people do nothing but only agree with eachother's viewpoints
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah, after I got past the part of you calling me a terroist it turn out to be a long discussion. I won't say good because I think the whole thing was unnecessary as I know you misinterpreted (not on purpose) the meaning and point from which I was stating. Such is the nature of internet forums.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
So if a bank robber goes into the bank shoots the people working there and takes the money,he is doing us a favor since the banks have to sharpen their security?