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How about a different skill-based progression system?

mmoguy43mmoguy43 In cyberspaaaaaacePosts: 2,696Member Uncommon

Edit: Deleted

Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare

    Looks like a passive gain system with some added rules to it. Worth experimenting with.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 In cyberspaaaaaacePosts: 2,696Member Uncommon

    Yeah but thats the thing with EvE- its completely time based you don't need to play to progress at all, as long as you have the isk for skills it completely has nothing to do with the effort you put into playing your character.

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member Uncommon

    First off, a big thanks for coming up with a system in detail instead of just giving a vague suggestion and leaving it at that.

    A couple questions. Can you only use the skills that you currently have slotted, or are you able to use everything you've ever learned? And since there is basically a penalty for knowing too many skills, what options would you have for getting rid of skills that are no longer useful to you?

    image
  • mm0wigginsmm0wiggins Boredom, CAPosts: 270Member

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Looks like a passive gain system with some added rules to it. Worth experimenting with.

    This ^ pretty much.

     

    I dunno, though... I personally think this is a good idea, and I already know EVE's skill system is a fantastic move away from the typical progression systems, but I hear a lot of bad feedback about skill progression systems like this from those who are attached to talent trees and grinding schemes.    Would be nice to see other's responses to this.

    This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 In cyberspaaaaaacePosts: 2,696Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Disdena

    First off, a big thanks for coming up with a system in detail instead of just giving a vague suggestion and leaving it at that.
    A couple questions. Can you only use the skills that you currently have slotted, or are you able to use everything you've ever learned? And since there is basically a penalty for knowing too many skills, what options would you have for getting rid of skills that are no longer useful to you?

     


    Yes, you can use all skills but the features from them may be very limted or not nearly as potent unless slotted.


    You can use everything if you meet the item’s skill level requirements. But some items that may be too powerful even without the slot bonuses may be restricted to ‘slotted only’.


     


    You can completely unlearn skills. But with a skill called Skill Trading you can revert a skill back to a level and make it tradeable (with limitations on how high level, and tradability).

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare

    Originally posted by mm0wiggins


    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Looks like a passive gain system with some added rules to it. Worth experimenting with.

    This ^ pretty much.

     

    I dunno, though... I personally think this is a good idea, and I already know EVE's skill system is a fantastic move away from the typical progression systems, but I hear a lot of bad feedback about skill progression systems like this from those who are attached to talent trees and grinding schemes.    Would be nice to see other's responses to this.

    Good point. That's why I say it's worth experimenting with. For those who are attached to talent trees and grinds, this system sounds like it will still allow them to have that but with a passive progression in the background to keep things always moving forward.

    It could also just be a convoluted way of describing AoC's Alternate Advancement system. Again, why I feel it's worth setting up in something like RealmCrafter or GameMaker and tinkering with.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare

    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    Yeah but thats the thing with EvE- its completely time based you don't need to play to progress at all, as long as you have the isk for skills it completely has nothing to do with the effort you put into playing your character.

    If the 'it' in that sentence is about possession of skills, then yes.

    If the 'it' in that sentence is about proficiency with skills, then I'll gladly give you the ISK to buy up everything you need to go test that theory in low sec for yourself.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by mmoguy43




     

    Yes, you can use all skills but the features from them may be very limted or not nearly as potent unless slotted.

    You can use everything if you meet the item’s skill level requirements. But some items that may be too powerful even without the slot bonuses may be restricted to ‘slotted only’.

    Hmm, now that I'm taking a closer look, it might be too complex. I mean, if you equip a missile launcher, you might not have the Heavy Weapons skill at all. Or you might get some small bonus for knowing it even though you don't have it slotted. It might be level 1, 2, 3, or however high the skill cap is. Or you might have it in a minor slot at level 1, 2, 3, etc for a different bonus or additional abilities. Or you might have it in a major slot at 1, 2, 3, etc. That's without getting into the bonuses or abilities granted by the more specific Launcher and Missile Launcher skills. If it's too hard to understand what benefits the skill can give you, the system isn't working as well as it could.

    image
  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 In cyberspaaaaaacePosts: 2,696Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Disdena

    Hmm, now that I'm taking a closer look, it might be too complex. I mean, if you equip a missile launcher, you might not have the Heavy Weapons skill at all. Or you might get some small bonus for knowing it even though you don't have it slotted. It might be level 1, 2, 3, or however high the skill cap is. Or you might have it in a minor slot at level 1, 2, 3, etc for a different bonus or additional abilities. Or you might have it in a major slot at 1, 2, 3, etc. That's without getting into the bonuses or abilities granted by the more specific Launcher and Missile Launcher skills. If it's too hard to understand what benefits the skill can give you, the system isn't working as well as it could.

    That was one of my concerns too, that it would be too complex and unintuitive.

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  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member Common

    yea its abit of a different system, sort of similar to global agenda or planetsides in a way.

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 In cyberspaaaaaacePosts: 2,696Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    Yeah but thats the thing with EvE- its completely time based you don't need to play to progress at all, as long as you have the isk for skills it completely has nothing to do with the effort you put into playing your character.

    If the 'it' in that sentence is about possession of skills, then yes.

    If the 'it' in that sentence is about proficiency with skills, then I'll gladly give you the ISK to buy up everything you need to go test that theory in low sec for yourself.

    I get your point. Although, it still feels disjointed with character progress and your experience at using those skills being separate. I prefer when my character and I (playing my character) advance at the same time.
     
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  • psyclumpsyclum blah, ALPosts: 792Member

    Originally posted by mmoguy43


    Each of these slots can be filled with one of your learned skills. Once you slot the skills, they can be much more powerful and can also level up as you play. Skills in the Minor Skills slots will gain minor to moderate bonuses and will be fairly effective (compared to nearly useless when not even slotted).

    does the unslotted skills gain xp if you use them?

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 In cyberspaaaaaacePosts: 2,696Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by psyclum


    Originally posted by mmoguy43



    Each of these slots can be filled with one of your learned skills. Once you slot the skills, they can be much more powerful and can also level up as you play. Skills in the Minor Skills slots will gain minor to moderate bonuses and will be fairly effective (compared to nearly useless when not even slotted).

    does the unslotted skills gain xp if you use them?

    No, only slotted skills gain xp by use.

    to add:I want the player to focus on one skill build at a time and not to try using and leveling every single skill like in DF.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 In cyberspaaaaaacePosts: 2,696Member Uncommon
    Can't get any more input so I'm deleting this.
  • CaldenforCaldenfor Meredith, NHPosts: 133Member

    Why would you delete just the OP?

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 In cyberspaaaaaacePosts: 2,696Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caldenfor
    Why would you delete just the OP?

    I didn't think it would make sense without it but you are right I should remove most of my posts too.

  • CaldenforCaldenfor Meredith, NHPosts: 133Member
    Or you could have left them all =0
  • BluequoiseBluequoise Murfresboro, TNPosts: 23Member

    Personally I'm not sure why people don't try using proficincy systems, they would go great with a physics game engine. It would also remove the high-level OP issues making even the newest players to a game capable of competing with the old timers assuming they learned the ropes well.

    I suppose part of the reason why no one has tried making the move is because the RPG community is so built on the old Class and Leveling system populerized by D&D. Sad really that no one has tried inovating past that, virtual games have so much more potential than tabletops and yet developers seems to just copy whoever is making money.

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