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DEVS confirm:TOR has no intentions of being a sandbox

ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common

"Just to manage expectations (and I think we've posted this a number of times now in the last few years).

 



There is already a Star Wars MMO that focuses primarily on these features. We're making a different kind of game and we've been pretty open about that from the start.



That does not mean we are hostile to certain sandbox features such as player built housing - it just means that these kind of features are not a particularly high priority to us at this point as we navigate to ship.



There will certainly be out-of-combat player activities and activities that promote social interaction in the game, but you will not be able to take a job as a moisture farmer on Tatooine and simulate the life of such an individual in our game.



In short: Uncle Owen and his life is not the kind of heroic journey we're going for with this game. (The jawa's with their rocket launchers wouldn't make that a very fun activity anyway)."

Georg "Observer" Zoeller

Principal Lead Combat Designer

This was written in response to a thread on TOR's site asking for sandbox features. 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

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Comments

  • onehunerdperonehunerdper corpus christi, TXPosts: 837Member

    Not that it's suprising, but I am glad that they aren't focusing on that stuff, maybe in the future, but honestly I don't want to play a Star Wars game to be a moisture farmer...I mean...come on.

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  • vanderghastvanderghast cresco, IAPosts: 222Member Uncommon

    I don't get why he even had to say that.  I thought EVERYONE knew this was star wars on rails by now?

  • ShodanasShodanas PatrasPosts: 896Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by vanderghast

    I don't get why he even had to say that.  I thought EVERYONE knew this was star wars on rails by now?

    Because although they where very straightforward about what TOR would be since day 1 some SWG dinosaurs still refuse to accept it. They still linger the forums moaning and acting like TOR is their game and demanding it to be as they want it to be. The fact that they are a minority does not seem to bother them at all.

  • BeanpuieBeanpuie Norfolk, VAPosts: 812Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by vanderghast

    I don't get why he even had to say that.  I thought EVERYONE knew this was star wars on rails by now?

    because at times youd have to find the biggest laser cannon to carve out a explaination on the moon for all to see and people

    will still not understand, thats why.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    In B4 the bitching *flail*

     

    Though I will say that his mention of there 'already being' a sandbox Star Wars doesn't hold a lot of merit when the game is ancient, decrepit, abandoned and not really a home to people who want those features anymore. Not that I care since I hate the sandbox theme. How someone gets enjoyment out of watching an avatar do the most mundane tasks possible is completely beyond me, but whatever! Do whatever you like *wavey*

     

    Give the other game a fresh coat of paint and some new things to do and all the sandboxers will be happy. In a perfect world, at least.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • FaynthFaynth Neunkirchen-SeelscheidPosts: 237Member

    funny how they need to explain this over and over again. i guess the guys at bioware already type it *slowly* for everyone under every rock to understand it.

    then again, its the internet...

  • YilelienYilelien Vacaville, CAPosts: 322Member

    We knew this a long time ago. But i guess osme want to close there eyes and ignore the facts.

  • Rommie10-284Rommie10-284 Systems CommonwealthPosts: 238Member Uncommon

    Yeah, it's not a scoop that TOR isn't SWG 2.0, when you consider what was done by the rights holder to SWG 1.0.

    What the developers will have to carve on the moon with a laser is this: TOR isn't SWG 2.0, it's World of Warcraft in Space.

    If honesty is the developer's intention and all.  Heck, since it's the entire point of all those $$$ invested in the game, they might even crow about it.  In the end, I think the players will know what's up before they have to make the purchase decision.

    Avatars are people too

  • inBOILinBOIL turkuPosts: 669Member

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    There is already a Star Wars MMO that focuses primarily on these features. We're making a different kind of game and we've been pretty open about that from the start.

     

    in english

    we´re making a wow kind of game because there isnt one yet?

    Generation P

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,439Member Uncommon

    Long ago didn't they claim that SWTOR would be a playbox which would be themepark with some sandbox stuff?

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,276Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    Long ago didn't they claim that SWTOR would be a playbox which would be themepark with some sandbox stuff?

    Yes, and they are holding true to that.  SWTOR will have some hybridized features,  such as the crafting and economy system,  but no, player crafted housing and things of that nature will not be on launch.

     

    The idea of a sandbox style game has become very mixed nowadays. Everyone implements their own definition of what it is, and any game that doesn't fit every aspect of that system is an obvious  themepark.  The truth is in the gray area between the two, and that is where SWTOR will fall.

     

    Sandbox style play is based on player interactions that are built within the systems boundaries, those boundaries usually being more lax and catering to a less quest driven style of advancement or play.  

     

    But to the sandbox purists, any game with 2 or more quests is a full on themepark.  

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • RyukanRyukan Mason, MIPosts: 706Member Uncommon

    I loved SWG for it's sandbox qualities, but honestly felt it was lacking a real heavy sense of Star Wars adventure. I am glad that Bioware is not focusing on rather mundane sandbox elements like jobs or the daily grind of industry and economics. Star Wars at it's core is about the action and the adventure and I would rather they spend more time working on the story, game world and other gameplay elements than using time and resources to make the life of a moisture farmer more interesting or making sure that a full time dancer has more to do.

    I consider myself an ex-SWG vet (played from beta up to the NGE and left depressed at that point), but I don't expect SWTOR to be like SWG much at all and in fact I think it is a godd thing. I liked SWG because it had a great flexible and open character system, it was very sandbox (yes I even like the sandbox nature of what kind of characters you could have, adventurers, hold a job and so forth) and it was Star Wars...but I think it fell flat in a lot of places and often came off as more of a galactic life simulator and less like an true Star wars experience.

    I'm not going to gush over SWTOR or Bioware, but SWTOR looks like it shaping up to be fun...for me.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by inBOIL

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    There is already a Star Wars MMO that focuses primarily on these features. We're making a different kind of game and we've been pretty open about that from the start.

     

    in english

    we´re making a wow kind of game because there isnt one yet?

     

    There isn't one that you can play a jedi, and with KOTOR kind of stories.

    SO it is all good news.

  • vanderghastvanderghast cresco, IAPosts: 222Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ryukan

    I loved SWG for it's sandbox qualities, but honestly felt it was lacking a real heavy sense of Star Wars adventure.

     

     

    I felt much the same.  There was nothing star wars about SWG.  sure it had star wars skins but it felt absolutely nothing like the movies.  It was too crafting centric, it suffered from idiotic urban blight and never gave the feeling of adventure that the first three star wars movies did.  I always felt raph koster was an idiot for thinking his crafting vision fit into star wars.  He could have put all that crap into another game and it probably would have been great, but it had no business in a star wars game.

     

    I don't expect anything other than a single player RPG with the ability to occasionally play coop out of TOR.  once i finish a character i doubt there will be much reason to play through again.  I don't expect much of an endgame.  I expect to MAYBE get a month of play out of it and then check back when there's an expansion.  But that's par for hte course for any mmo now.  Not much incentive to keep playing at level cap once you've done the content.

  • DromedarrDromedarr PraguePosts: 76Member

    TOR has player housing. That's enough sandbox for me.

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    "Just to manage expectations (and I think we've posted this a number of times now in the last few years).

     



    There is already a Star Wars MMO that focuses primarily on these features. We're making a different kind of game and we've been pretty open about that from the start.



    That does not mean we are hostile to certain sandbox features such as player built housing - it just means that these kind of features are not a particularly high priority to us at this point as we navigate to ship.



    There will certainly be out-of-combat player activities and activities that promote social interaction in the game, but you will not be able to take a job as a moisture farmer on Tatooine and simulate the life of such an individual in our game.



    In short: Uncle Owen and his life is not the kind of heroic journey we're going for with this game. (The jawa's with their rocket launchers wouldn't make that a very fun activity anyway)."

    Georg "Observer" Zoeller

    Principal Lead Combat Designer

    This was written in response to a thread on TOR's site asking for sandbox features. 

    Well they've made no secret that they had no intention of making SWG pre CUNGE 2, so this isn't exactly breaking news. Nor is it bad news. SWG failed on many levels, both before and after CUNGE. I want to see these guys do their own take on the SW universe, not just rehash someone else's rubbish.

     

    However, and I admit it could just be me reading something into his tone that isn't actually there, I feel there is more than a bit of hostility towards the disgruntled SWG vet crowd. I find the whole Uncle Owen and moisture farmer example to be tired and hackneyed, and a piss poor analogy for an argument. Mainly because it so very simplifies (childishly so) what kind of player activities that were possible during the old days of SWG. It is also not meant to be a logical argument (at least I hope these people are a bit better educated than that) but more bait for angst ridden SWG vets to flame out on. I find Zoeller's use of such analogies to be confrontational, foolish, and counter productive.

     

    As to his claims that there will be out of combat player activities to promote player interaction, well I hope he is right. However all I've seen so far is you will have less sideline activities to participate in. In old SWG you could be an artisan, politician, or diplomat if you so chose. In SWTOR if you want to have those kinds of adventures it looks like you just have the butler do it.

     

    Now I'm not saying that what I am REALLY looking for in a Star Wars game is to live the life of the hole in the wall Gungan haberdasher, but I also expect a bit more for my money than just another "pew pew LaZoR BeAmS" SW combat simulator. And I don't think myself or other SW fans are unjust to expect such features as we were SW fans long before video games even existed.

     

    So to Mr. Zoeller, you want to impress us? Then you can start by explaining exactly what you guys bring to the table. Stop with the snide side comments about a certain faction of that "other game". All you are doing with those is alienating a group of people who actually want to be your customers.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • FaynthFaynth Neunkirchen-SeelscheidPosts: 237Member

    wow, what people can put into words is realy wierd. i guess mr. zoeller has made his point and the game will speak for itself. other than that thers no need to impress anyone who didnt want to buy it anyway.

    People behave like they are kings where they are 'just customers'. not saying that customers are not important. but  thers a line where a customer is too hard to grab when hes too much of a spoiled brat. ofc bioware tries to fit everyones needs but all this text gives a good example what companys and developer have to swallow these days to get their product sold.

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Originally posted by Jesterftk

    wow, what people can put into words is realy wierd. i guess mr. zoeller has made his point and the game will speak for itself. other than that thers no need to impress anyone who didnt want to buy it anyway.

    People behave like they are kings where they are 'just customers'. not saying that customers are not important. but  thers a line where a customer is too hard to grab when hes too much of a spoiled brat. ofc bioware tries to fit everyones needs but all this text gives a good example what companys and developer have to swallow these days to get their product sold.

    Well first off good work on your selective reading ability. I guess you chose to ignore the little caveat where I said that I could be seeing something that wasn't actually there.

    So I have to ask you, do you really feel its a good idea, in this current harsh MMO climate, after that last SW MMO caused massive controversy among fans and players, for one of the developers of this game to use an analogy that echos exactly what justification the SOE devs gave for creating the NGE edition of SWG? Do you really think that is going to placate or even sway the opionions of people with distrust twards this game, and these days MMOs in general? Insulting intentions or innocent ones, it certainly is not a brilliant PR move.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • goblagobla somewherePosts: 1,411Member

    Originally posted by Tardcore

    Well they've made no secret that they had no intention of making SWG pre CUNGE 2, so this isn't exactly breaking news. Nor is it bad news. SWG failed on many levels, both before and after CUNGE. I want to see these guys do their own take on the SW universe, not just rehash someone else's rubbish.

     

    However, and I admit it could just be me reading something into his tone that isn't actually there, I feel there is more than a bit of hostility towards the disgruntled SWG vet crowd. I find the whole Uncle Owen and moisture farmer example to be tired and hackneyed, and a piss poor analogy for an argument. Mainly because it so very simplifies (childishly so) what kind of player activities that were possible during the old days of SWG. It is also not meant to be a logical argument (at least I hope these people are a bit better educated than that) but more bait for angst ridden SWG vets to flame out on. I find Zoeller's use of such analogies to be confrontational, foolish, and counter productive.

     

    As to his claims that there will be out of combat player activities to promote player interaction, well I hope he is right. However all I've seen so far is you will have less sideline activities to participate in. In old SWG you could be an artisan, politician, or diplomat if you so chose. In SWTOR if you want to have those kinds of adventures it looks like you just have the butler do it.

     

    Now I'm not saying that what I am REALLY looking for in a Star Wars game is to live the life of the hole in the wall Gungan haberdasher, but I also expect a bit more for my money than just another "pew pew LaZoR BeAmS" SW combat simulator. And I don't think myself or other SW fans are unjust to expect such features as we were SW fans long before video games even existed.

     

    So to Mr. Zoeller, you want to impress us? Then you can start by explaining exactly what you guys bring to the table. Stop with the snide side comments about a certain faction of that "other game". All you are doing with those is alienating a group of people who actually want to be your customers.

    I think it's just a joke. Probably one that's been going in-office for a while. Maybe not the most funny one anymore and maybe not the smartest one to make, but still a joke. People sometimes have weird senses of humor and sometimes it's hard to detect whether or not a joke is funny.

    Personally I just mentally play this after each Uncle Owen comment. That seems to put it into a comfortable context. Brillaint but slightly socially awkward game designer making a joke that's almost appropriate but falls just slightly short.

    And there's quite a few articles all over with what they're bringing to the table, mostly the story and companions but some other cool stuff as well. It's not a revolutionary game but it seems to be turning out like something very fun nonetheless.

    We are the bunny.
    Resistance is futile.
    ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
    ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
    (")("),,(")("),(")(")

  • ukforzeukforze LiverpoolPosts: 331Member

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by inBOIL


    Originally posted by ktanner3

    There is already a Star Wars MMO that focuses primarily on these features. We're making a different kind of game and we've been pretty open about that from the start.

     

    in english

    we´re making a wow kind of game because there isnt one yet?

     

    There isn't one that you can play a jedi, and with KOTOR kind of stories.

    SO it is all good news.

    good news? it's another wow clone but in space... meh another ruined ip

    The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies

    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
    Played:
    SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR

  • thexratedthexrated OuluPosts: 1,368Member Common

    I also thought it was a joke. There have been few posts where people where whining that SW:TOR was not a sandbox because they could simulate moisture farming etc. I think Bioware was pretty open from the start what kind of game this was going to be. I am happy that they at least went with the open-world (or should I say planet?) model similar to WoW and Lotro instead of having lots of instances and small zones.

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • goblagobla somewherePosts: 1,411Member

    Originally posted by ukforze

    good news? it's another wow clone but in space... meh another ruined ip

    It's not really news at all.

    It's been known for months if not years that SWToR was going to be a more or less standard themepark except for the Star Wars setting and the Bioware storytelling + companions. It's adding something, which many people enjoy a lot, to the existing gameplay.

    And wouldn't really call it a ruined IP. From the info we have thus far it's succeeding at what it's trying to do.

    We are the bunny.
    Resistance is futile.
    ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
    ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
    (")("),,(")("),(")(")

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Originally posted by gobla

    Originally posted by Tardcore.

    snip

    I think it's just a joke. Probably one that's been going in-office for a while. Maybe not the most funny one anymore and maybe not the smartest one to make, but still a joke. People sometimes have weird senses of humor and sometimes it's hard to detect whether or not a joke is funny.

    Personally I just mentally play this after each Uncle Owen comment. That seems to put it into a comfortable context. Brillaint but slightly socially awkward game designer making a joke that's almost appropriate but falls just slightly short.

    And there's quite a few articles all over with what they're bringing to the table, mostly the story and companions but some other cool stuff as well. It's not a revolutionary game but it seems to be turning out like something very fun nonetheless.

    Also in his defence he is a game designer, not a member of their Public Relations devision. Though I seem to remember one of the PR guys causing a stink when he mentioned that they were aiming at the Wow player base.

    Anyway it is what it is. I think what Bioware needs to focus the most on is telling us what their game is and not what it isn't. And jokingly or not I find it best that they just let sleeping dogs (in this case angry SWG vets) lie because they have a nasty habbit of bitting you on the ass.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Originally posted by ukforze

    Originally posted by nariusseldon


    Originally posted by inBOIL


    Originally posted by ktanner3

    There is already a Star Wars MMO that focuses primarily on these features. We're making a different kind of game and we've been pretty open about that from the start.

     

    in english

    we´re making a wow kind of game because there isnt one yet?

     

    There isn't one that you can play a jedi, and with KOTOR kind of stories.

    SO it is all good news.

    good news? it's another wow clone but in space... meh another ruined ip

    Maybe, we have yet to really see. Also I'm not sure making a game based around electric samurai in space is the best way to devorce yourself from the fantasy genre.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Kansas City, MOPosts: 460Member Uncommon

    Not sure why this is news to anyone. Back in Feb., Bioware co-founder Greg Zeschuk stated World of Warcraft has "... established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

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