I really don't know how Titan will fare as there just isn't enough info about it. About all we can really say for sure is it's pretty much a ground-up project because they painted themselves into a corner with the way they designed WOW and WOW was pretty much at it's limit of what they could do with it before cata. Cata was pretty much a reskin with a few additions to stetch it out a bit more at least from what I can tell from my various forum browsing. Time will tell what lessons they learnt about long term flexability from WOW and what they come up with for Titan.
As for Activision having undue influence on Blizzard I don't think there is that much to worry about there myself. Last year about 60% of Activisions profit came from Blizzard and from what I can tell Activision leaves 2 types of devhouses alone* the first type is Blizzard the second type is those with budgets in the 100's of thousands. Blizzard they leave alone because thats whats filling up their money pools and gucuzi's and the others they leave alone because they don't have that huge expectation to make a million off those particular games but at least want the money back and it's not worth the effort of riding them into the ground over a couple hundred thou. If they hand you responsability for COD though batten down your hatches and prepare for Bobby and his SWAT team of lawyers to be stalking your halls forever more.
*by alone I don't mean they leave them completely alone more they just pop in from time to time to make sure they still exist and are working on something.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
I'm wondering, as my sig implies, how different can Titan be? Blizzard's main customers will be their wow base but I think by that point even more people will be so burnt on WoW that logging in and seeing WoW in space or post apocalypse WoW will be too much.
The reason people stick so long with WoW and don't venture to the clones or indies or consoles or real life is because you have so much time invested in this character. You have your gold, mounts, pets, achievements,, flightpaths, friends, knowledge.
Quitting an MMO and staying quit is a hard thing to do. WoW's best friend is attatchment and Titan won't have that. I doubt Titan will fail but I think after Warcraft expires (no matter how long after Titan's release that is, a day, a year, or 3) there will be no more mmo king by such a large margin.
Or i'm wrong and Titan will be a revolutionary and amazing experience.
I made a thread about this before. IMO the reason WoW players come back, is because Developers are afraid to take ideas and concepts that WoW also has. But on the flip side, Blizzard isnt afraid to take ideas and concepts from others.
So there could be a key feature you like, but it was left out of the "WoW Clone" because their developers were afraid it would be too "WoW" like. And Blizzard then steals the main key feature that new MMO had that got everybody so excited. Now once that happens, Why stay in the new MMO, when you can have the key features you had in WoW and the brand new features that new MMO had?
We saw this with Warhammer.
WoTLK vs Warhammer. Warhammer didnt stand a chance after Blizzard stole everything exciting about Warhammer. Once they did that, Warhammer's original features, didnt seem as Original any longer
I...don't know how to respond to this.
WoW clones have been ripping off WoW for years. Nothing is sacred, only difficult to implement based on time or budget constraints.
I'm not saying people copy WoW because WoW thought of things. I'm saying people copy WoW (including ideas that it may well have 'stolen') because it was such a smashing sucess.
WoW was a fun game for a while. One clone I played was really fun at first but I was left with the feeling that I'd rather be playing my paladin and priest that I'd become so attached to rather than playing in the new world.
For me, it's like this. I know I waste too much time an an mmo when I accidentally check /playlog or /played, but the time is already wasted. It's hard to stop playing while I'm still having fun. It's quite easy, for me, not to login to the mmo's I do have on my machine right now, like Champions Online, because I have no attachment and don't want the attachment that will lead, to what I feel like, is wasting my life. (CO is not the "wow clone" from the above paragraph).
Yes WoW clones been ripping off, but at the same time, they leave out Key Features that MADE WOW SUCCESSFUL!
Warhammer, may have taken the faction style of WoW for PvP, but THEY LEFT OUT ENDGAME PVE WHICH WAS THE #1 FEATURE OF VANILLA/X-pac's SUCCESS. I remember those days. I USE TO FOLLOW WARHAMMER ON FAN SITES. I REMEMBER THE BURNING I WOULD GET FOR EVEN MENTIONING PVE ON THOSE FORUMS. HOW IN THE WORLD COULD MYTHIC ADD ENDGAME PVE WITH A RABID FORUM FANBASE LIKE THAT WHICH WOULD GET VERY ANGRY AT THE SLIGHTEST MENTION OF PVE IN WARHAMMER."WAR IS A PVP GAME,,, IF YOU WANT PVE, GO BACK TO WOW". I AM WILLING TO ASSUME THAT IF YOU WERE TO GOOGLE THAT STATEMENT YOU LIKELY WOULD RUN INTO THOSE OLD WARHAMMER FORUM THREADS IF THEY HADNT BEEN DELETED.
Think about the stuff I just said in the caps. Its what Developers fear. They dont want to anger their fanbase. And they know,,,, EVEN THE MOST CLONEY OF WOW CLONES, WILL HAVE FANBASE THAT SHOW MAJOR HATRED TO ANYTHING WOW RELATED. (CASE AND POINT AT RIFT's FORUM FANBASE IF YOU WANT PROOF)
List:
*Rift - Didnt include cross server LFG system, because it fear it would be similar to WoW's LFG system, which is getting bashed on their forums by rabid WoW haters.
*Warhammer - again the PvE endgame. Read the caps. No Cross Server Instanced PvP. BECAUSE WOW HAS IT!!! BAH BAH BAH
*Guild Wars 2 - No Raiding form of Instanced PvE and no Mounts because WoW haters hate those things cause WoW has Raiding as its number 1 feature, and it has tons of Mounts. I seen this argument time and time again by WoW haters/GW fans.
*LoTRO - No PvP cause WoW has PvP argument. smh
the list goes on. time and time again
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I never said WoW thought of anything.
Its just logically stupid, to be afraid of taking ideas from a Development WHICH HAS ITS WHOLE SUCCESS THANKS TO STEALING IDEAS FROM OTHERS!!! so why AVOID IDEAS FROM WOW? THEY MOST OF THE TIME COME FROM NON-WOW GAMES....... Just compare WoW(TBC) to WoW(WOTLK). now take those key differences and compare it to Warhammer Online (hype phase).... You can clearly see why Warhammer seemed Less Original.... THATS BECAUSE WOW STOLE IDEAS FROM A BRAND NEW MMO AND POLISHED IT UP TO COMPETE WITH THAT VERY SAME MMO THAT CAME UP WITH THE IDEAS!!!! WHICH MAKES THAT NEW MMORPG SEEM EVEN MORE LIKE A WOW CLONE THEN IT ACTUALLY IS.... ONCE A MMO GET THAT TITLE ITS OVER!! BLIZZARD WINS AGAIN!!
BLIZZARD IS A DEMONIC GENIUS, or a DIABLO GENIUS!!!!! (pun intended ofc)
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Back to the ORANGE part I typed.
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Why is it ok from a WoW Fan point of view, for Blizzard to take ideas from other games
Yet from a (insert any other MMORPG) fan, its not ok to steal ideas from other games. Hey like I said before. Those ideas in WoW, most of the time come from some other source in the market.
If WoW Wants Class System from Everquest,,, thats ok,,,,, But if (Insert post WoW Themepark MMO) also wants the class system from Everquest,,, it is now labled a WoW Clone.
Check this shit out. I made a damn thread on this matter as well.
When Rabid Forum posters and MMO site reviews start going off about the WoW clone thingy,,, they automatically become the Anti-Advertisment.
WoW is like GTA. Remember how much bad press a GTA Clone would get, even if it was good? Well that was a long time ago, but times has changed, and people moved away from bashing GTA clones, because in some cases they turn out better than GTA itself.
Right now,, the MMORPG genre Community base are in the old times of GTA. Anything that Clones it, automatically get the downrating. This basically demotivates Developers from Building up off of that other Game, rather than starting from scratch.
UnSurprisingly this is What BLIZZARD DID TO REACH WOW's SUCCESS.... THEY BUILT UP OFF OF WHERE EVERQUEST LEFT OFF,,,, NOT START NEW NEWIE!!!
The Blizzard and Warcraft brand is NOTHING compared to LOTR/StarWars/The Matrix... WoWs success was word of mouth, and that is why it became pop culture.
Er, no sorry, that's not how it worked. Star Wars Galaxies when it came out pulled in a massive number on brand name, for the time. But it was a game aimed at MMORPG players. That was a smaller number of people back then. It pulled in people from EverQuest, DAoC, and a few newbies that come along with every new game. But Blizzard, had a VERY relavent name in the GAMING sphere, and WoW was aimed at NON MMORPG gamers. WoW is a casual game aimed at people who didn't play MMOs. And that's the target audience it's always kept. LotRO, when it was in development (then called Middle Earth Online) drew a huge number of people in who were fans of the books, but lost all those fans when they put out a generic WoW clone. Book folks that weren't already gamers thought it was interesting, but the majority of people who were following the game were already gamers to some extent, who were already familiar with WoW, and it was boring, and they left by the thousands in alpha when it changed to LotRO. Also it was developed by Turbine, who does NOT have the marketing budget of Blizzard. WoW got a full year of writeups and previews and banner adds before launch. LotRO got little to none.
It is the marketing muscle and brand name of Blizzard, as well as them aiming their MMO and marketing campaign at non gamers, that got them success. WoW is pretty much the Wiisports of MMORPGs. And the copy cats like the Playstation move, or Rift, or AoC, or LotRO, are doomed not to be as successful.
No. Your own witty black-and-white take is not a retelling of what actually happened.
WoW had marketing, but so did many of the others. Also, WoW was also aimed AT MMORPG gamers. After all, it followed a clear and cut EQ pattern of evolution, which it drew it's inspiration from. The games success is contributed to a lot of things. It's very accessable, as the others tried to be too.
People didn't quit LOTRO because it was a generic WoW clone. It was a good game, that didn't get the word of mouth. Vivendi as a pub' put back a lot of marketing behind it, including all the rage about it's life time subs.
WoW drew in initially 500.000, around 100.000 more than SWG had within its early life. from there, at xmas 2004 after the initial over pop with servers was over, the word of mouth took over.
WoW MADE the marked bigger, and it drew in lots of people who had never played any blizzard games before. thats why you have so many idiots in the game who know nothing about warcraft. its just word of mouth spreading, and that is why it was pop culture. all its mentions in tv, movies and in pop culture media knows nothing about it too.
So its pointless to put it up on some pedestal. Even in gaming circles, MMO circles and nerd circles, the anticipation of SWG in 2001-2004 eas much higher for SWG. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that even the WoW team left an e3 depressed they were so scared at SWG, and it reflected clearly in forums around the internet back then. Star Wars was a hundred times larger IP and had much more significant staying power in any context.
WoWs large scale ads didnt even start until later, after the game had peaked past several millions. the major tv ads of "whats your game" didnt even start until several years later.
I love how all the blizz fanboys think that just because Blizz is making Titan it will automatically be great. just like all the hardcore pvp DAoC fanboys thought Warhammer would amazing just because it was made by Mythic. The chances of a company making more than one incredible mmo are pretty slim history has shown, no matter how much money they throw at it.
I don't think I've seen anyone on this thread say or imply that Titan will be big or great just because Blizzard is making it.
Venge
edit - actually the exact opposite seems to be the prevailaing trend. People don't expect it to imitate wow's success.
What gets at me, are the people that are saying, Blizzard is intentionally trying to kill WoW so that Titan can succeed.
lols SMH, that makes no sense.
Why would they kill WoW? They can have both. Even if they compete with each other
They have said it's not meant to be a WoW-killer but we'll see where WoW's at. There comes a point where running one MMO is substantially cheaper than running two, as the profits from a tired game decline.
Let's be honest--As many devlopers have shown, Blizzard chief among them--what you say has little impact on the gameplan months or years from now. Cataclysm and Wrath, for instance, are vastly different games with different stated goals. Wrath was about accessibility for everyone while Cata is about the emphasis on guilds, and especially good guilds.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I'm starting to doubt whether Blizzard has still the ingenious talent left to equal their former successes, especially with the growing Activision/Kotick influence that permeates more and more of Blizzard's game design decisions.
But one thing that Blizzard has that trumps anything else, and that is money: if things aren't right with a game of theirs, they make enough money to create 2 big budget AAA MMO titles with the cash they make with 1 month of WoW subs.
So they can go all out in game design or improvements of existing MMO's if the situation requires them to. No other company or dev team can do that.
I agree completely.
Though they do have the $$$, even with their best intentions and despite me not liking WoW, it will be tremendously hard for them to come anywhere remotely close to WoW's success. It was, IMO, an event that happens only once.
Nice thought BTW about Activision's influence. Completely forgot they own them now.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I'm starting to doubt whether Blizzard has still the ingenious talent left to equal their former successes, especially with the growing Activision/Kotick influence that permeates more and more of Blizzard's game design decisions.
But one thing that Blizzard has that trumps anything else, and that is money: if things aren't right with a game of theirs, they make enough money to create 2 big budget AAA MMO titles with the cash they make with 1 month of WoW subs.
So they can go all out in game design or improvements of existing MMO's if the situation requires them to. No other company or dev team can do that.
This is the reason I stopped playing WoW.
Blizz has all this money but have done nothing with WoW, it's just the same old shit end game... chase the gear by running the same dungeon or raid boss 100 times till the gear piece you want drops.
Dead horse, horse is dead!
MMO's need to move on from this design concept.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE Waiting on: Lost Ark Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
For me they already fucked up the same way EA did it with Uo. WoW/UO/EQ longevity might be huge all you want, those people are a bit too greedy honestly to be even smart. Titan should already be there, in the shops, if they were really smart to keep their player base, but they just launched the project!!! Its already too late, and they will most likely screw it up even more because they will rush it.
Once your customer wents away, it is very very hard to bring them back, this is a know fact in many domain of industry.
Well, from a guy that left WoW 3 years ago and never looked back, Titan (Blizzard) would have to be/take a HUGE step forward for MMO to pull me back in. Right now, the market is saturated with MMOs and there's one that caters every fool ((I'm including myself in there)). So when Titan comes out, the number of MMOs will most likely have doubled and the F2P might actually come out on top.
Titan will really need to something different to garner as much subscribers than WoW and to pull everyone in. And lets face it, you just can't satisfy everyone anymore. But I do wish them luck!
Oh, I also think people should look more closely at EVE and CCP. They have some sweet stuff coming our way!
________________________ "If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
People are already leaving WOW now so Blizzard either has to make their next expansion nearly perfect in order for fans to stay or they simply can keep on doing what they have been doing and make Titan the best it can be. The thing is though that we have no idea what Titan is so , who knows ?
People have been leaving WoW for like 7 years now lol...
Regardless "titan" won't be a factor for GW2 and Star wars, diablo 3 will. Even if diablo 3 isn't an mmo, i'm still playing it well before either of those two games, I can guarantee there are a lot of people like me as well.
I personally think that Blizzard's influence is simply too strong for these newer games to compete with even if they do end up being very good games, but what does everyone else think?
WoW has evolved into a social network within the facebook game category. If you look at the facebook games, their populations are typically millions above actual mmorpgs.
Well, from a guy that left WoW 3 years ago and never looked back, Titan (Blizzard) would have to be/take a HUGE step forward for MMO to pull me back in. Right now, the market is saturated with MMOs and there's one that caters every fool ((I'm including myself in there)). So when Titan comes out, the number of MMOs will most likely have doubled and the F2P might actually come out on top.
Titan will really need to something different to garner as much subscribers than WoW and to pull everyone in. And lets face it, you just can't satisfy everyone anymore. But I do wish them luck!
Oh, I also think people should look more closely at EVE and CCP. They have some sweet stuff coming our way!
Anybody remember when Blizzard said the new MMO will appeal to Girls?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Blizzards new mmo is Tit'an Beers. That just shows they know their demographics, and are listening.
Well, people enjoy Blizzard products, and it could be a web browser mmo and I will probably still try it out....probably becuase of the misleading name... Tit'an something.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
It will not affect the launch of both those games at all. Maybe when the time comes for it to release, but we don't even know how either game will be doing at that point.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
So I know Blizzards next mmo is likely pretty far off but what effect do you think it will have on the soon to come releases such as GW2 and SWTOR? Assuming one of these new titles does really well and builds a substantial subscriber base, will Blizzard just snatch them right back with their new release?
I guess what I am asking is do you think a game like GW2 (if it becomes successful) will have enough pull to keep players from leaving? I personally think that Blizzard's influence is simply too strong for these newer games to compete with even if they do end up being very good games, but what does everyone else think?
Titan would need to appeal to a wide audience of players, offer them something that WoW doesn't have, to be able to grab those players that aren't currently playing WoW.
Personally I would be very hesitant in ditching my current MMO for a new one if I had invested a great deal of time and effort, I would need to have played my current MMO to such an extent that it just wouldn't thrill me anymore before I wanted to move on, most MMO players aren't as nomdic as companies like to believe, we tend to stick with 1 MMO at a time and only move when it suits us, ie that we have done everything that we possibly can, thats ofc only if we find the right MMO in the first place.
Titan may well be another WoW in the waiting, but it won't do any good if players aren't willing to leave thier current games to play it, I know I certainly won't be as I'm hoping to be heavily invested in SWTOR by then.
Also Blizzard may go in a radically different direction with their new MMO just to get away from thier current cash cow, and this decision alone may put off ex-WoW players.
I love how all the blizz fanboys think that just because Blizz is making Titan it will automatically be great. just like all the hardcore pvp DAoC fanboys thought Warhammer would amazing just because it was made by Mythic. The chances of a company making more than one incredible mmo are pretty slim history has shown, no matter how much money they throw at it.
Since Warcraft, Blizz has yet to release a game that is not good. So yeah, it most likely will be great.
Well, Blizzard is a bunch of really sharp business people. WoW has, amazing as it is, still an amazing grip on the market, no doubt about that. Just look at EQ, the size of their peak player base and the amount of years they've been running and extrapolate how long Blizzard can run WoW.
They WILL be profitable for a LONG time.
Now, Titan, we do not know much about but, I am sure it will be very different from WoW. What Blizzard would ultimately want is to have the "attachement crowd" (that cannot or do not look for / try another game) to stay with WoW for 3 to 5 years or longer and have the tired old crowd and alot of new social gamers aware of the Blizzard/WoW trademark to transition to Titan.
How will they do this? Titan will NOT be like WoW, it will most likely have sandbox elements or FPS elements, but also something like solid social gaming be it housing, building, creating etc. The action/fps section will be separate from the social section, but they will be connected in game via some sort of hub.
To be honest, GW2 and TOR are in the grand of things "WoW clones" as ugly as the term is, you all just have to accept it. There ARE games on the market that are NOT wow clones right now, but the market as a whole will not grasp this until the Giant releases its new MMO.
Im not sure what kind of MMO the titan project will end up being. And im a little weary of guessing.
There are some truths though. WoWs numbers are declining. Though the amount of subs it still holds right now this very moment are still amazing. Its also true that WoW came around at just the right time with just the right formula and captured the market.
But as I see it, Blizzard may have the chance to do that again. I guess that will hinge on the success of Guild Wars 2 and KOTOR.
Comments
I really don't know how Titan will fare as there just isn't enough info about it. About all we can really say for sure is it's pretty much a ground-up project because they painted themselves into a corner with the way they designed WOW and WOW was pretty much at it's limit of what they could do with it before cata. Cata was pretty much a reskin with a few additions to stetch it out a bit more at least from what I can tell from my various forum browsing. Time will tell what lessons they learnt about long term flexability from WOW and what they come up with for Titan.
As for Activision having undue influence on Blizzard I don't think there is that much to worry about there myself. Last year about 60% of Activisions profit came from Blizzard and from what I can tell Activision leaves 2 types of devhouses alone* the first type is Blizzard the second type is those with budgets in the 100's of thousands. Blizzard they leave alone because thats whats filling up their money pools and gucuzi's and the others they leave alone because they don't have that huge expectation to make a million off those particular games but at least want the money back and it's not worth the effort of riding them into the ground over a couple hundred thou. If they hand you responsability for COD though batten down your hatches and prepare for Bobby and his SWAT team of lawyers to be stalking your halls forever more.
*by alone I don't mean they leave them completely alone more they just pop in from time to time to make sure they still exist and are working on something.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
Yes WoW clones been ripping off, but at the same time, they leave out Key Features that MADE WOW SUCCESSFUL!
Warhammer, may have taken the faction style of WoW for PvP, but THEY LEFT OUT ENDGAME PVE WHICH WAS THE #1 FEATURE OF VANILLA/X-pac's SUCCESS. I remember those days. I USE TO FOLLOW WARHAMMER ON FAN SITES. I REMEMBER THE BURNING I WOULD GET FOR EVEN MENTIONING PVE ON THOSE FORUMS. HOW IN THE WORLD COULD MYTHIC ADD ENDGAME PVE WITH A RABID FORUM FANBASE LIKE THAT WHICH WOULD GET VERY ANGRY AT THE SLIGHTEST MENTION OF PVE IN WARHAMMER."WAR IS A PVP GAME,,, IF YOU WANT PVE, GO BACK TO WOW". I AM WILLING TO ASSUME THAT IF YOU WERE TO GOOGLE THAT STATEMENT YOU LIKELY WOULD RUN INTO THOSE OLD WARHAMMER FORUM THREADS IF THEY HADNT BEEN DELETED.
Think about the stuff I just said in the caps. Its what Developers fear. They dont want to anger their fanbase. And they know,,,, EVEN THE MOST CLONEY OF WOW CLONES, WILL HAVE FANBASE THAT SHOW MAJOR HATRED TO ANYTHING WOW RELATED. (CASE AND POINT AT RIFT's FORUM FANBASE IF YOU WANT PROOF)
List:
*Rift - Didnt include cross server LFG system, because it fear it would be similar to WoW's LFG system, which is getting bashed on their forums by rabid WoW haters.
*Warhammer - again the PvE endgame. Read the caps. No Cross Server Instanced PvP. BECAUSE WOW HAS IT!!! BAH BAH BAH
*Guild Wars 2 - No Raiding form of Instanced PvE and no Mounts because WoW haters hate those things cause WoW has Raiding as its number 1 feature, and it has tons of Mounts. I seen this argument time and time again by WoW haters/GW fans.
*LoTRO - No PvP cause WoW has PvP argument. smh
the list goes on. time and time again
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I never said WoW thought of anything.
Its just logically stupid, to be afraid of taking ideas from a Development WHICH HAS ITS WHOLE SUCCESS THANKS TO STEALING IDEAS FROM OTHERS!!! so why AVOID IDEAS FROM WOW? THEY MOST OF THE TIME COME FROM NON-WOW GAMES....... Just compare WoW(TBC) to WoW(WOTLK). now take those key differences and compare it to Warhammer Online (hype phase).... You can clearly see why Warhammer seemed Less Original.... THATS BECAUSE WOW STOLE IDEAS FROM A BRAND NEW MMO AND POLISHED IT UP TO COMPETE WITH THAT VERY SAME MMO THAT CAME UP WITH THE IDEAS!!!! WHICH MAKES THAT NEW MMORPG SEEM EVEN MORE LIKE A WOW CLONE THEN IT ACTUALLY IS.... ONCE A MMO GET THAT TITLE ITS OVER!! BLIZZARD WINS AGAIN!!
BLIZZARD IS A DEMONIC GENIUS, or a DIABLO GENIUS!!!!! (pun intended ofc)
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Back to the ORANGE part I typed.
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Why is it ok from a WoW Fan point of view, for Blizzard to take ideas from other games
Yet from a (insert any other MMORPG) fan, its not ok to steal ideas from other games. Hey like I said before. Those ideas in WoW, most of the time come from some other source in the market.
If WoW Wants Class System from Everquest,,, thats ok,,,,, But if (Insert post WoW Themepark MMO) also wants the class system from Everquest,,, it is now labled a WoW Clone.
Check this shit out. I made a damn thread on this matter as well.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4223981#4223981
When Rabid Forum posters and MMO site reviews start going off about the WoW clone thingy,,, they automatically become the Anti-Advertisment.
WoW is like GTA. Remember how much bad press a GTA Clone would get, even if it was good? Well that was a long time ago, but times has changed, and people moved away from bashing GTA clones, because in some cases they turn out better than GTA itself.
Right now,, the MMORPG genre Community base are in the old times of GTA. Anything that Clones it, automatically get the downrating. This basically demotivates Developers from Building up off of that other Game, rather than starting from scratch.
UnSurprisingly this is What BLIZZARD DID TO REACH WOW's SUCCESS.... THEY BUILT UP OFF OF WHERE EVERQUEST LEFT OFF,,,, NOT START NEW NEWIE!!!
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
You can hardly compare obvious shite, with possible gold now can you?
No. Your own witty black-and-white take is not a retelling of what actually happened.
WoW had marketing, but so did many of the others. Also, WoW was also aimed AT MMORPG gamers. After all, it followed a clear and cut EQ pattern of evolution, which it drew it's inspiration from. The games success is contributed to a lot of things. It's very accessable, as the others tried to be too.
People didn't quit LOTRO because it was a generic WoW clone. It was a good game, that didn't get the word of mouth. Vivendi as a pub' put back a lot of marketing behind it, including all the rage about it's life time subs.
WoW drew in initially 500.000, around 100.000 more than SWG had within its early life. from there, at xmas 2004 after the initial over pop with servers was over, the word of mouth took over.
WoW MADE the marked bigger, and it drew in lots of people who had never played any blizzard games before. thats why you have so many idiots in the game who know nothing about warcraft. its just word of mouth spreading, and that is why it was pop culture. all its mentions in tv, movies and in pop culture media knows nothing about it too.
So its pointless to put it up on some pedestal. Even in gaming circles, MMO circles and nerd circles, the anticipation of SWG in 2001-2004 eas much higher for SWG. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that even the WoW team left an e3 depressed they were so scared at SWG, and it reflected clearly in forums around the internet back then. Star Wars was a hundred times larger IP and had much more significant staying power in any context.
WoWs large scale ads didnt even start until later, after the game had peaked past several millions. the major tv ads of "whats your game" didnt even start until several years later.
I love how all the blizz fanboys think that just because Blizz is making Titan it will automatically be great. just like all the hardcore pvp DAoC fanboys thought Warhammer would amazing just because it was made by Mythic. The chances of a company making more than one incredible mmo are pretty slim history has shown, no matter how much money they throw at it.
I don't think I've seen anyone on this thread say or imply that Titan will be big or great just because Blizzard is making it.
Venge
edit - actually the exact opposite seems to be the prevailaing trend. People don't expect it to imitate wow's success.
What gets at me, are the people that are saying, Blizzard is intentionally trying to kill WoW so that Titan can succeed.
lols SMH, that makes no sense.
Why would they kill WoW? They can have both. Even if they compete with each other
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
They have said it's not meant to be a WoW-killer but we'll see where WoW's at. There comes a point where running one MMO is substantially cheaper than running two, as the profits from a tired game decline.
Let's be honest--As many devlopers have shown, Blizzard chief among them--what you say has little impact on the gameplan months or years from now. Cataclysm and Wrath, for instance, are vastly different games with different stated goals. Wrath was about accessibility for everyone while Cata is about the emphasis on guilds, and especially good guilds.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Blizzard is the big dog, they will continue to be the big dog.
Many people playing WoW don't even know there is such a thing as other MMOs but chances are they will hear of Blizzards next one.
I'm waiting to see if they do anything innovative, if not I'll pass on Titan.
I agree completely.
Though they do have the $$$, even with their best intentions and despite me not liking WoW, it will be tremendously hard for them to come anywhere remotely close to WoW's success. It was, IMO, an event that happens only once.
Nice thought BTW about Activision's influence. Completely forgot they own them now.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
This is the reason I stopped playing WoW.
Blizz has all this money but have done nothing with WoW, it's just the same old shit end game... chase the gear by running the same dungeon or raid boss 100 times till the gear piece you want drops.
Dead horse, horse is dead!
MMO's need to move on from this design concept.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
For me they already fucked up the same way EA did it with Uo. WoW/UO/EQ longevity might be huge all you want, those people are a bit too greedy honestly to be even smart. Titan should already be there, in the shops, if they were really smart to keep their player base, but they just launched the project!!! Its already too late, and they will most likely screw it up even more because they will rush it.
Once your customer wents away, it is very very hard to bring them back, this is a know fact in many domain of industry.
Hard to say given we do not know Titan's model? Will it be F2P or P2P?
Well, from a guy that left WoW 3 years ago and never looked back, Titan (Blizzard) would have to be/take a HUGE step forward for MMO to pull me back in. Right now, the market is saturated with MMOs and there's one that caters every fool ((I'm including myself in there)). So when Titan comes out, the number of MMOs will most likely have doubled and the F2P might actually come out on top.
Titan will really need to something different to garner as much subscribers than WoW and to pull everyone in. And lets face it, you just can't satisfy everyone anymore. But I do wish them luck!
Oh, I also think people should look more closely at EVE and CCP. They have some sweet stuff coming our way!
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"If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
People have been leaving WoW for like 7 years now lol...
Regardless "titan" won't be a factor for GW2 and Star wars, diablo 3 will. Even if diablo 3 isn't an mmo, i'm still playing it well before either of those two games, I can guarantee there are a lot of people like me as well.
WoW has evolved into a social network within the facebook game category. If you look at the facebook games, their populations are typically millions above actual mmorpgs.
Anybody remember when Blizzard said the new MMO will appeal to Girls?
What does that mean?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Titanville?
I don't recall that quote, but if it was a while ago, it could be possible that they said it.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Blizzards new mmo is Tit'an Beers. That just shows they know their demographics, and are listening.
Well, people enjoy Blizzard products, and it could be a web browser mmo and I will probably still try it out....probably becuase of the misleading name... Tit'an something.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
As you said, it's far off.
It will not affect the launch of both those games at all. Maybe when the time comes for it to release, but we don't even know how either game will be doing at that point.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Titan would need to appeal to a wide audience of players, offer them something that WoW doesn't have, to be able to grab those players that aren't currently playing WoW.
Personally I would be very hesitant in ditching my current MMO for a new one if I had invested a great deal of time and effort, I would need to have played my current MMO to such an extent that it just wouldn't thrill me anymore before I wanted to move on, most MMO players aren't as nomdic as companies like to believe, we tend to stick with 1 MMO at a time and only move when it suits us, ie that we have done everything that we possibly can, thats ofc only if we find the right MMO in the first place.
Titan may well be another WoW in the waiting, but it won't do any good if players aren't willing to leave thier current games to play it, I know I certainly won't be as I'm hoping to be heavily invested in SWTOR by then.
Also Blizzard may go in a radically different direction with their new MMO just to get away from thier current cash cow, and this decision alone may put off ex-WoW players.
Since Warcraft, Blizz has yet to release a game that is not good. So yeah, it most likely will be great.
Well, Blizzard is a bunch of really sharp business people. WoW has, amazing as it is, still an amazing grip on the market, no doubt about that. Just look at EQ, the size of their peak player base and the amount of years they've been running and extrapolate how long Blizzard can run WoW.
They WILL be profitable for a LONG time.
Now, Titan, we do not know much about but, I am sure it will be very different from WoW. What Blizzard would ultimately want is to have the "attachement crowd" (that cannot or do not look for / try another game) to stay with WoW for 3 to 5 years or longer and have the tired old crowd and alot of new social gamers aware of the Blizzard/WoW trademark to transition to Titan.
How will they do this? Titan will NOT be like WoW, it will most likely have sandbox elements or FPS elements, but also something like solid social gaming be it housing, building, creating etc. The action/fps section will be separate from the social section, but they will be connected in game via some sort of hub.
To be honest, GW2 and TOR are in the grand of things "WoW clones" as ugly as the term is, you all just have to accept it. There ARE games on the market that are NOT wow clones right now, but the market as a whole will not grasp this until the Giant releases its new MMO.
the only concrete info ive read about Titan is Blizzard *refuses to even talk about it* this year
http://project-titan.blogspot.com/
probably wont be hearing any info until next year, 2012
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/58388/Blizzard-5-Year-Plan-Leak-Reveals-Titan-Next-Gen-MMO
rumors say Titan wont launch til Q4 2013 at the earliest -- and no mmo launches early, so probably 2014
EQ2 fan sites
Im not sure what kind of MMO the titan project will end up being. And im a little weary of guessing.
There are some truths though. WoWs numbers are declining. Though the amount of subs it still holds right now this very moment are still amazing. Its also true that WoW came around at just the right time with just the right formula and captured the market.
But as I see it, Blizzard may have the chance to do that again. I guess that will hinge on the success of Guild Wars 2 and KOTOR.