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What really kills my immersion and fun...

jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKPosts: 628Member

Well I tried to give this game what was probably the third or fourth try, being optimistic everytime...

But heres the thing, the game has gotten better, but the company and the community has not.

The devs are obviously not very great. Rubberbanding, lag back again (something randomly broke, some are saying it's fixed, but haven't tried it since)

Then just look at how they are tightening up forum moderation prior to a xpac release, it kind of shows how confident they are in the stability of an expansion. People complaining still about the rubberbanding/desync that was present in beta! Now, it is obvisouyl a completely different type of monster, but the fact that it still exist in some form is just ridiculous from a consumer stand point. And their is also a lot of other broken things in-game that i'd rahter not bother to go into because...

Get past all of the bugs, and technical shortcomings of the devs, and the game is horridly unbalanced. The combat, certain materials, certain weapons, ect. just unbalanced into irrelevance. The game becomes very limited because of it.

Then, to make it worse, the community in this game is kind of horrible. Like worse than wow horrible. Because at least in wow, all the d-bag immature griefers didn't have the tools to really just ruin everyones experience and then have the man-sac to call it roleplaying.

Everyone in the game is evil, whether they roleplay or just call themselves pvpers, that is the role they are playing relative to what the laws of a realistic midevil world would be(which is what the game aims to be but lacks the ability to portray). But heres the problem, there is no good guys in the game. If you try to be, your basically outnumbered entire server to one.  If you try to be good, and end up crossing one guy who was doing something bad so to speak, they will basically run to their guild, tell on you, and now your an enemy of the area (it happened to me multiple times, a friend, and a trial member who just quit the game instead of relocating)

In all my time playing, I was the only person I saw ever helping trial members, providing them jobs, armour, protection, ect. What was everyone else doing? Killing them at pig spawns, stealing their stuff, tricking them to go grey, thunderlashing them thro newbie protection if they had it... ect, and their excuse? The game is suppose to be a realistic midevil fantasy world, and real worlds are dangerous. Well, real worlds aren't that dangerous because people are also suppose to be protecting, not destroying all the time.

The community has basically devolved into darkfalls community which is really a shame. After having multiple bad expereince in this game and darkfall, it turned me against full loot ffa, because it really does attract so many d-bags that can't handle the responsibility of a rpg "living world". It seems like it just attracts sociopathic behavior like a magnetic, and people can't handle the freedom.

Comments

  • funkmastaDfunkmastaD Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 647Member

    Wow, someone got ganked alot...

     

    ... for every player that tries to attack me in MO, there's at least 2 dozen that don't.  If you don't like that ratio, than whatever you do, if you decide to try EVE, don't wander out of the hi-sec zone.  Go into a .4 sec system and you will not see a single player that will not attack you...  compared to that, MO's gameworld feels like a friggin cuddlepuddle. 

     

    I know it sucks to die, but really, look around when you're in the wilds of MO... you'll see more people running from you than toward you.

  • jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKPosts: 628Member

    Originally posted by funkmastaD

    Wow, someone got ganked alot...

     

    ... for every player that tries to attack me in MO, there's at least 2 dozen that don't.  If you don't like that ratio, than whatever you do, if you decide to try EVE, don't wander out of the hi-sec zone.  Go into a .4 sec system and you will not see a single player that will not attack you...  compared to that, MO's gameworld feels like a friggin cuddlepuddle. 

     

    I know it sucks to die, but really, look around when you're in the wilds of MO... you'll see more people running from you than toward you.

    Well that's not even the problem. Because actually, I got ganked very few times compared to how many times I've gotten ganked in other games. Hell, me and my clan have been bindcamped for at least an hour+ in darkfall.

    And I also have played eve.. alot. But the community wasn't bad like in this game.

    And it's kind of funny that the first thing you jump to is that I raged quit...

    But my point is that a huge majority of people in the game play the "bad guys" and it just ruins my immersion in the game. Everyone just wants to pvp all the time, because to be fair, it's kind of the only thing to do.

     

    edit: the fact that the first thing you tried to do is condescend me instead of dispute any arguements is just indicative of a lot of the games community. But I've played this game for a while, and I've played mmo's for many years(including pretty much every p2p mmo's thats been released in the east), so don't try to sell this I've been ganked bs.

  • RoakiRoaki LIVERPOOLPosts: 66Member

    FFA loot is just pathetic, and a way for a game to never have over 200,000 subs.

     

    1-10 like it, and those people are just "omgad can't wait to steal some1's loot"

     

    A game can be as realistic as it wants, but it doesn't have to go that far, at the end of the day its only a game and can never be fully realistic for that reason alone.

     

    Developers have probably learnt now though, from darkfall and mortal online being complete failures, that FFA loot doesn't attract enough people to the game, it drives them away.

     

    This is also the reason of the bad community, because like I said the majority of the few people attracted by FFA loot are just selfish idiots.

     

    I've never played DF or MO because of hundreds of posts like this one, so thank you for not letting me waste my time trying them! :)

    I don't mean to sound big headed... But I know Voldemort.

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jadedlevir

    Everyone in the game is evil, whether they roleplay or just call themselves pvpers, that is the role they are playing relative to what the laws of a realistic midevil world would be(which is what the game aims to be but lacks the ability to portray). But heres the problem, there is no good guys in the game. If you try to be, your basically outnumbered entire server to one. 

     

    This is where you lose me.  Absolute statements (i.e. "Everyone in the game is evil") are usually pretty much patently false, as is the case here.  Everyone?  Really?

    I'm not evil in the game.  I primarily do PvE for money and materials, and I craft for people.  I do engage in PvP from time to time when it's warranted, but that's about it.

    Guilds like Forsaken and Wessex are hardly "evil", nor have they been run from the game.

    Good people are out there in the game, and contrary to popular belief, they exist in good number.  Of course, getting ganked is usually going to be a "significant emotional event", and as such, I think makes it look like the entire game is filled with gankers.

    If you haven't already done so, take a look around Moh-ki or Bak-ti, and you might be surprised to find some good guys.

    Otherwise, sorry that you didn't like the game.

    P.S.: Server and combat performance really were fixed a couple of days ago.  Both are better now than I think I've ever seen them before.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKPosts: 628Member

    Originally posted by Rohn

    Originally posted by jadedlevir



    Everyone in the game is evil, whether they roleplay or just call themselves pvpers, that is the role they are playing relative to what the laws of a realistic midevil world would be(which is what the game aims to be but lacks the ability to portray). But heres the problem, there is no good guys in the game. If you try to be, your basically outnumbered entire server to one. 

     

    This is where you lose me.  Absolute statements (i.e. "Everyone in the game is evil") are usually pretty much patently false, as is the case here.  Everyone?  Really?

    I'm not evil in the game.  I primarily do PvE for money and materials, and I craft for people.  I do engage in PvP from time to time when it's warranted, but that's about it.

    Guilds like Forsaken and Wessex are hardly "evil", nor have they been run from the game.

    Good people are out there in the game, and contrary to popular belief, they exist in good number.  Of course, getting ganked is usually going to be a "significant emotional event", and as such, I think makes it look like the entire game is filled with gankers.

    If you haven't already done so, take a look around Moh-ki or Bak-ti, and you might be surprised to find some good guys.

    Otherwise, sorry that you didn't like the game.

    Once again, it has nothing to do with being ganked. Bak-ti is definitely the nicest place I was at in the game, but are you really going to try to suggest Moh-ki, because I would seriously not suggest people to live there? I've lived in most places the game has to offer, travelling place to place simply to find a nice environment. And I can say with confidence that "good" players make up such a minute portion of the population its laughable. Wessex is probably the only guild that is "good" but they are small and can't do much.

     

    Hunting and crafting doesn't make you a good player. You are nuetral. And what about your affiliations, the people you sell to, ect? How does being nuetral in anyway counteract the hordes of people that run around in a pvp bowl. Being blue, living in a town or keep also doesn't mean your innocent.

    Many people living in meduli for example steal, murder, grief and happily live in the town because the games mechanics are limited.

     

    Also, topics like this pop up often on even the MO forums by players that are still playing and hav been since release. I've played a handful months. This is not some isolated incident, or a random rant. I've observed a lot about the game and tried to give it a fair assesment.

     

    edit: Also, using phrases like "everyone" is hyperbole, I didn't mean everyone literaly, but instead just a large majority.

  • jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKPosts: 628Member

    Originally posted by funkmastaD

    Originally posted by Roaki

    FFA loot is just pathetic, and a way for a game to never have over 200,000 subs.

     

    1-10 like it, and those people are just "omgad can't wait to steal some1's loot"

     

    A game can be as realistic as it wants, but it doesn't have to go that far, at the end of the day its only a game and can never be fully realistic for that reason alone.

     

    Developers have probably learnt now though, from darkfall and mortal online being complete failures, that FFA loot doesn't attract enough people to the game, it drives them away.

     

    This is also the reason of the bad community, because like I said the majority of the few people attracted by FFA loot are just selfish idiots.

     

    I've never played DF or MO because of hundreds of posts like this one, so thank you for not letting me waste my time trying them! :)

     

    {mod edit}

    He doesn't say they are horrible. He says he's turned off by the bad community games like this have attracted historically, and notes that as their failure.

  • username509username509 beverly hills, CAPosts: 635Member

    Originally posted by Roaki

    FFA loot is just pathetic, and a way for a game to never have over 200,000 subs.

     

    1-10 like it, and those people are just "omgad can't wait to steal some1's loot"

     

    A game can be as realistic as it wants, but it doesn't have to go that far, at the end of the day its only a game and can never be fully realistic for that reason alone.

     

    Developers have probably learnt now though, from darkfall and mortal online being complete failures, that FFA loot doesn't attract enough people to the game, it drives them away.

     

    This is also the reason of the bad community, because like I said the majority of the few people attracted by FFA loot are just selfish idiots.

     

    I've never played DF or MO because of hundreds of posts like this one, so thank you for not letting me waste my time trying them! :)

    Enjoy World of Warcraft...

    The reason why we play FFA is the risk versus reward feeling we get.  When you play on a PVP server in world of warcraft the worst thing that happens is you have to pay a small fee to repair your armor and walk back to your corpse from a graveyard.  In RIft it's almost the same, but you don't even have to pay to repair your armor.  There is basically no death penalty in these games.

    In FFA games the risk and reward are what drives you.  I have never had my pulse race, or beads of sweat start to form from playing Rift or WoW, however in MortalOnline I can honestly say I have.  (No I'm a 300 pound fat waste of life)  

    In FFA games for the most part you can choose how much your willing to risk.  Will you go out in your expensive uber armor in hopes that it will help you edge out your competition, or will you wear cheaper armor because you don't want to risk your best gear?  If your just harvesting then you'll probably decide to not wear any armor at all, and therefore risk nothing but a cheap harvesting tool and your time.  

    The majority of FFA loot game players are not selfish idiots like you stated, instead the majority of FFA loot game players are motivated by high risk thrills of full loot pvp and attracted to the real world like economy of these sandbox games.  (Keep in mind most FFA full loot games are sandbox games)

    Darkfall and MortalOnline are not failures they are still running now and making money for there respective companies.  Darkfall has been around for well over a year now and MO is about to hit it's 1 year mark next month.  These games did not fail and are not shutting down anytime soon.  

    Not playing DF or MO because of random forum posts like this is like not voting Democrat because of what you hear on Fox News.  

    Everything you wrote in your post is wrong, insulting, and highlights your ignorance.  

    Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,493Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by username509

     

    Darkfall and MortalOnline are not failures they are still running now and making money for there respective companies. 

     Just a note on that point.  MO in fact has been losing money since it launched.  It will be interesting to see if Q1 has followed the same pattern.  The financials for StarVault are due out in 10 days.  Let's hope that the Free Trial was as big of a success as we all hoped!

     

    I agree with some of your other points though.  Some people just don't wan't FFA Full Loot in a game. 

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • funkmastaDfunkmastaD Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 647Member

    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    Originally posted by username509


     

    Darkfall and MortalOnline are not failures they are still running now and making money for there respective companies. 

     Just a note on that point.  MO in fact has been losing money since it launched.  It will be interesting to see if Q1 has followed the same pattern.  The financials for StarVault are due out in 10 days.  Let's hope that the Free Trial was as big of a success as we all hoped!

     

    I agree with some of your other points though.  Some people just don't wan't FFA Full Loot in a game. 

     

    Whoa, has it been another quarter already?

  • jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKPosts: 628Member

    Originally posted by username509

    Originally posted by Roaki

    FFA loot is just pathetic, and a way for a game to never have over 200,000 subs.

     

    1-10 like it, and those people are just "omgad can't wait to steal some1's loot"

     

    A game can be as realistic as it wants, but it doesn't have to go that far, at the end of the day its only a game and can never be fully realistic for that reason alone.

     

    Developers have probably learnt now though, from darkfall and mortal online being complete failures, that FFA loot doesn't attract enough people to the game, it drives them away.

     

    This is also the reason of the bad community, because like I said the majority of the few people attracted by FFA loot are just selfish idiots.

     

    I've never played DF or MO because of hundreds of posts like this one, so thank you for not letting me waste my time trying them! :)

    Enjoy World of Warcraft...

    The reason why we play FFA is the risk versus reward feeling we get.  When you play on a PVP server in world of warcraft the worst thing that happens is you have to pay a small fee to repair your armor and walk back to your corpse from a graveyard.  In RIft it's almost the same, but you don't even have to pay to repair your armor.  There is basically no death penalty in these games.

    In FFA games the risk and reward are what drives you.  I have never had my pulse race, or beads of sweat start to form from playing Rift or WoW, however in MortalOnline I can honestly say I have.  (No I'm a 300 pound fat waste of life)  

    In FFA games for the most part you can choose how much your willing to risk.  Will you go out in your expensive uber armor in hopes that it will help you edge out your competition, or will you wear cheaper armor because you don't want to risk your best gear?  If your just harvesting then you'll probably decide to not wear any armor at all, and therefore risk nothing but a cheap harvesting tool and your time.  

    The majority of FFA loot game players are not selfish idiots like you stated, instead the majority of FFA loot game players are motivated by high risk thrills of full loot pvp and attracted to the real world like economy of these sandbox games.  (Keep in mind most FFA full loot games are sandbox games)

    Darkfall and MortalOnline are not failures they are still running now and making money for there respective companies.  Darkfall has been around for well over a year now and MO is about to hit it's 1 year mark next month.  These games did not fail and are not shutting down anytime soon.  

    Not playing DF or MO because of random forum posts like this is like not voting Democrat because of what you hear on Fox News.  

    Everything you wrote in your post is wrong, insulting, and highlights your ignorance.  

    No one mentioned any of the things you mentioned, because the complaints are not about any of those. Risk v reward, and all that other stuff is what attracts me towards them, but the fact is, the community turns me away. That stuff seems to attract such a bad crowd, that it's just not worth it . It has nothing to do with world of warcraft... ppl need to stop trying to clutch on that. He wasn't refering to risk and thrills, he was refering to community.

    Everyone talks about these mmo like they're some fps game on the xbox, and thats the problem( Not you specifically, but this is the way the community acts). Everyone wants some pulse racing game, they don't want an immersive sandbox. And thats part of the problem with the cmmunity, and also another thing that ruins the entire experience in these games.

    By saying this is a random forum post and relating it to Fox News, are you trying to imply that what I said was not true? I implore you to elaborate on this, because that is the one thing no one has done yet.  These aren't random biased problems I pulled out of my ass, you can go on the forums and see for yourself or even ask people in-game. These are all pretty common complaints.

     

    Btw starting any post with "Enjoy World of Warcraft" and ending with "highlights your ignorance" is silly.

  • ToferioToferio RandomPosts: 1,403Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by username509

    Originally posted by Roaki

    FFA loot is just pathetic, and a way for a game to never have over 200,000 subs.

     

    1-10 like it, and those people are just "omgad can't wait to steal some1's loot"

     

    A game can be as realistic as it wants, but it doesn't have to go that far, at the end of the day its only a game and can never be fully realistic for that reason alone.

     

    Developers have probably learnt now though, from darkfall and mortal online being complete failures, that FFA loot doesn't attract enough people to the game, it drives them away.

     

    This is also the reason of the bad community, because like I said the majority of the few people attracted by FFA loot are just selfish idiots.

     

    I've never played DF or MO because of hundreds of posts like this one, so thank you for not letting me waste my time trying them! :)

    Enjoy World of Warcraft...

    The reason why we play FFA is the risk versus reward feeling we get.  When you play on a PVP server in world of warcraft the worst thing that happens is you have to pay a small fee to repair your armor and walk back to your corpse from a graveyard.  In RIft it's almost the same, but you don't even have to pay to repair your armor.  There is basically no death penalty in these games.

    In FFA games the risk and reward are what drives you.  I have never had my pulse race, or beads of sweat start to form from playing Rift or WoW, however in MortalOnline I can honestly say I have.  (No I'm a 300 pound fat waste of life)  

    In FFA games for the most part you can choose how much your willing to risk.  Will you go out in your expensive uber armor in hopes that it will help you edge out your competition, or will you wear cheaper armor because you don't want to risk your best gear?  If your just harvesting then you'll probably decide to not wear any armor at all, and therefore risk nothing but a cheap harvesting tool and your time.  

    The majority of FFA loot game players are not selfish idiots like you stated, instead the majority of FFA loot game players are motivated by high risk thrills of full loot pvp and attracted to the real world like economy of these sandbox games.  (Keep in mind most FFA full loot games are sandbox games)

    Darkfall and MortalOnline are not failures they are still running now and making money for there respective companies.  Darkfall has been around for well over a year now and MO is about to hit it's 1 year mark next month.  These games did not fail and are not shutting down anytime soon.  

    Not playing DF or MO because of random forum posts like this is like not voting Democrat because of what you hear on Fox News.  

    Everything you wrote in your post is wrong, insulting, and highlights your ignorance.  

    Woah, talk about losing calm and ability to stay neutral.. First of all, let's state the fact, Mortal Online is a commercial failure so far. Rant all you want, but their financial reports clearly show they are in loss at the moment.

    Having experinced both sides of the story, I can validate that WoW 1v1 PvP can be as engaging as in any sandbox. If you need a risk of losing gear in order to provoke that feeling, then the game is doing it wrong, simple as. I don't need any extra motivation, the single fact that I outwitted my opponent is enough of victory for me (usually after several fights in row, camping him around the corner after guessing his next move, ect. Not meeting him once and sending him to pick up his new suit of armor). It is not about losing gear, but about the feeling that you annoyed him enough that he will spend rest of his evening trying to find you with couple of his friends. Only your own fantasy limits your experince.

    After all, there is no really rare gear in MO, everything is just bit extra grind next time you are mining. That is far from hardcore, it is just extra downtime before you can grab yet another set of armor from your bank.

  • osmundaosmunda slidell, LAPosts: 1,087Member

    Originally posted by jadedlevir

    Hunting and crafting doesn't make you a good player. You are nuetral. And what about your affiliations, the people you sell to, ect? How does being nuetral in anyway counteract the hordes of people that run around in a pvp bowl. Being blue, living in a town or keep also doesn't mean your innocent.

    Many people living in meduli for example steal, murder, grief and happily live in the town because the games mechanics are limited.

    edit: Also, using phrases like "everyone" is hyperbole, I didn't mean everyone literaly, but instead just a large majority.

    Ahh..

    So, ignoring your hyperbole, your issue with the game is that most people are "neutral" that most people are not innocent and that if you "end up crossing one guy who was doing something bad so to speak" they will tell their friend and make life hard for you?

  • raff01raff01 PARISPosts: 453Member

    The OP is right, full loot PvP attracts a lot of griefers and douches.

    Only difference with MO was that I would almost never ever get ganked since outside cities, the world was empty and I would be lucky to come accross anyone.

    In DFO, I remember, even when thinking I was in a really remote, hidden spot where I could sit for a few minutes and chill, I would have some random douche ganking me while I would sit and AFK for a few sec.

  • professerprofesser melbourne, FLPosts: 102Member

    But thats what makes it fun

  • raff01raff01 PARISPosts: 453Member

    Originally posted by professer

    But thats what makes it fun

    A little of it makes it fun because it adds excitement...Too much of it kills the fun...that's the entire point of that topic...

  • Cik_AsalinCik_Asalin SoCal, CAPosts: 3,033Member

    Originally posted by raff01

    The OP is right, full loot PvP attracts a lot of griefers and douches.

    True, for those that get it; about FFA Full Loot.  PvP and organically player-driven and combative and competitive game-play has never been the issue, and neither has the sense and suspense of loss.

     

    However, I've always felt that a sectored seamless approach to environmental PvP blended into a game, where a player has some safety in guarded cities and a small ring of the surrounding area, combined with a % chance at player loot drop would make for a very appealing balance. 

     

    I'd much rather have some "small" graduated landscape that is safe from PvP drama, combined with a random drop of 3 of "my" items when an opponent is killed than to have everywhere being a FFA and losing everything when killed.

  • BTrayaLBTrayaL BucharestPosts: 595Member Uncommon

    I agree with all the OP said. I also quit searching full loot games.

    image
  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member

    Amazing how touchy the "fans" of this game are...


     


    And there lies the problem of the low population: MO caters to a very small segment of the gaming population hence its very "niche" appeal. Coupled with the high learning curve and gank mentality of many of its players, is it really a wonder why the population is so low?


     


    P.S. You lose all credibility and sound like a "douche" when you use the old "go back to WoW" argument. Has become so much of a cliché, it actually says more about the person making the comment than it does about the intended recipient...

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • username509username509 beverly hills, CAPosts: 635Member

    Originally posted by Toferio

    Originally posted by username509


    Originally posted by Roaki

    FFA loot is just pathetic, and a way for a game to never have over 200,000 subs.

     

    1-10 like it, and those people are just "omgad can't wait to steal some1's loot"

     

    A game can be as realistic as it wants, but it doesn't have to go that far, at the end of the day its only a game and can never be fully realistic for that reason alone.

     

    Developers have probably learnt now though, from darkfall and mortal online being complete failures, that FFA loot doesn't attract enough people to the game, it drives them away.

     

    This is also the reason of the bad community, because like I said the majority of the few people attracted by FFA loot are just selfish idiots.

     

    I've never played DF or MO because of hundreds of posts like this one, so thank you for not letting me waste my time trying them! :)

    Enjoy World of Warcraft...

    The reason why we play FFA is the risk versus reward feeling we get.  When you play on a PVP server in world of warcraft the worst thing that happens is you have to pay a small fee to repair your armor and walk back to your corpse from a graveyard.  In RIft it's almost the same, but you don't even have to pay to repair your armor.  There is basically no death penalty in these games.

    In FFA games the risk and reward are what drives you.  I have never had my pulse race, or beads of sweat start to form from playing Rift or WoW, however in MortalOnline I can honestly say I have.  (No I'm a 300 pound fat waste of life)  

    In FFA games for the most part you can choose how much your willing to risk.  Will you go out in your expensive uber armor in hopes that it will help you edge out your competition, or will you wear cheaper armor because you don't want to risk your best gear?  If your just harvesting then you'll probably decide to not wear any armor at all, and therefore risk nothing but a cheap harvesting tool and your time.  

    The majority of FFA loot game players are not selfish idiots like you stated, instead the majority of FFA loot game players are motivated by high risk thrills of full loot pvp and attracted to the real world like economy of these sandbox games.  (Keep in mind most FFA full loot games are sandbox games)

    Darkfall and MortalOnline are not failures they are still running now and making money for there respective companies.  Darkfall has been around for well over a year now and MO is about to hit it's 1 year mark next month.  These games did not fail and are not shutting down anytime soon.  

    Not playing DF or MO because of random forum posts like this is like not voting Democrat because of what you hear on Fox News.  

    Everything you wrote in your post is wrong, insulting, and highlights your ignorance.  

    Woah, talk about losing calm and ability to stay neutral.. First of all, let's state the fact, Mortal Online is a commercial failure so far. Rant all you want, but their financial reports clearly show they are in loss at the moment.

    Having experinced both sides of the story, I can validate that WoW 1v1 PvP can be as engaging as in any sandbox. If you need a risk of losing gear in order to provoke that feeling, then the game is doing it wrong, simple as. I don't need any extra motivation, the single fact that I outwitted my opponent is enough of victory for me (usually after several fights in row, camping him around the corner after guessing his next move, ect. Not meeting him once and sending him to pick up his new suit of armor). It is not about losing gear, but about the feeling that you annoyed him enough that he will spend rest of his evening trying to find you with couple of his friends. Only your own fantasy limits your experince.

    After all, there is no really rare gear in MO, everything is just bit extra grind next time you are mining. That is far from hardcore, it is just extra downtime before you can grab yet another set of armor from your bank.

    Except for the fact that you didn't win or lose because you outwitted your opponent.  In WoW victory goes to the player who the higher level, better geared, and simply more lucky, rather then any sort of superior tactics or better combat ability.  

    Congratulation, you won because you played the game 6 months straight to max out your level, and then another 6 month of raiding to max out your gear.  Sounds like fun!

    If your goal is simply to grief other players then wouldn't it be better to "annoy him enough that he will spend rest of his evening trying to find you with couple of his friends"    and take his armor? 

    Ultimately however I believe you don't like FFA full loot games not because as you stated " WoW 1v1 PvP can be as engaging as in any sandbox" but rather because in a sandbox you would more often be the victim of a ganker rather then doing the actually ganking.

    Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!

  • ToferioToferio RandomPosts: 1,403Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by username509

    Except for the fact that you didn't win or lose because you outwitted your opponent.  In WoW victory goes to the player who the higher level, better geared, and simply more lucky, rather then any sort of superior tactics or better combat ability.  

    Congratulation, you won because you played the game 6 months straight to max out your level, and then another 6 month of raiding to max out your gear.  Sounds like fun!

    That is a common misconception coming from a sandbox fan. Yes, it may come down to gear vs gear, but so may in any other game too. Even in MO better armor/higher skilled character gives you a significant advantage. I have had enough of scenarios in themeparks where I won over opponents who outgeared me, simply by playing smart. Believe it or not, within certain gear braket skill does make a difference (Obviously if you take best geared vs worst geared, best geared may oneshot him). It may seem alien to you, but wow have a lot more abilities to offer for strategic gameplay then MO, where the combat seems pretty dull to me after all the CC effects in WoW. You may argue that pressing a button and stunning someone is not skill, but to time it right is skill.

    Obviously someone with a significant difference in level will win a 1v1 fight (despite me remembering several cases of winning vs opponent with higher level), but same goes for MO. Try a fight with a new character in rugs vs someone with maxed skills and good armor.. You have to learn to judge a game within it's own rules, and not applying sandbox logic to themeparks.

    Another common misconception is the "1 year to hit max gear". It takes couple of weeks to hit level cap, and then couple of weeks to get good gear, if you know what you are doing. I would say the lore and story is worth the time, if you are into such stuff.

    You also sound like every fight in WoW have someone outgearing the other. That is far from true. Nowdays the game became so casual, that majority of the players have equally good armor. So yes, I did often win a fight because I outwitted an equally geared opponent.

    If your goal is simply to grief other players then wouldn't it be better to "annoy him enough that he will spend rest of his evening trying to find you with couple of his friends"    and take his armor? 

    So, I took his armor and he went to his bank to grab another suit from his stash. So much for that. That may be a personal taste, but I find winning a hour long camping competition in themepark much more satisfying then lootin yet another armor set in MO.

    Ultimately however I believe you don't like FFA full loot games not because as you stated " WoW 1v1 PvP can be as engaging as in any sandbox" but rather because in a sandbox you would more often be the victim of a ganker rather then doing the actually ganking.

    What you are basically saying here is "You don't like sandbox because you probably suck". Do we really need to sink to that level of debate?

    Now, I am not trying to say that one thing is better then other. I am simply pointing out that most arguments about sandbox PvP are gravely exxegerated. I believe what makes a sandbox trully special is its tools, not PvP.

  • MoreplexMoreplex Parts UnknownPosts: 472Member

    Originally posted by Toferio

    Originally posted by username509



    Except for the fact that you didn't win or lose because you outwitted your opponent.  In WoW victory goes to the player who the higher level, better geared, and simply more lucky, rather then any sort of superior tactics or better combat ability.  

    Congratulation, you won because you played the game 6 months straight to max out your level, and then another 6 month of raiding to max out your gear.  Sounds like fun!

    That is a common misconception coming from a sandbox fan. Yes, it may come down to gear vs gear, but so may in any other game too. Even in MO better armor/higher skilled character gives you a significant advantage. I have had enough of scenarios in themeparks where I won over opponents who outgeared me, simply by playing smart. Believe it or not, within certain gear braket skill does make a difference (Obviously if you take best geared vs worst geared, best geared may oneshot him). It may seem alien to you, but wow have a lot more abilities to offer for strategic gameplay then MO, where the combat seems pretty dull to me after all the CC effects in WoW. You may argue that pressing a button and stunning someone is not skill, but to time it right is skill.

    Obviously someone with a significant difference in level will win a 1v1 fight (despite me remembering several cases of winning vs opponent with higher level), but same goes for MO. Try a fight with a new character in rugs vs someone with maxed skills and good armor.. You have to learn to judge a game within it's own rules, and not applying sandbox logic to themeparks.

    Another common misconception is the "1 year to hit max gear". It takes couple of weeks to hit level cap, and then couple of weeks to get good gear, if you know what you are doing. I would say the lore and story is worth the time, if you are into such stuff.

    You also sound like every fight in WoW have someone outgearing the other. That is far from true. Nowdays the game became so casual, that majority of the players have equally good armor. So yes, I did often win a fight because I outwitted an equally geared opponent.

    If your goal is simply to grief other players then wouldn't it be better to "annoy him enough that he will spend rest of his evening trying to find you with couple of his friends"    and take his armor? 

    So, I took his armor and he went to his bank to grab another suit from his stash. So much for that. That may be a personal taste, but I find winning a hour long camping competition in themepark much more satisfying then lootin yet another armor set in MO.

    Ultimately however I believe you don't like FFA full loot games not because as you stated " WoW 1v1 PvP can be as engaging as in any sandbox" but rather because in a sandbox you would more often be the victim of a ganker rather then doing the actually ganking.

    What you are basically saying here is "You don't like sandbox because you probably suck". Do we really need to sink to that level of debate?

    Now, I am not trying to say that one thing is better then other. I am simply pointing out that most arguments about sandbox PvP are gravely exxegerated. I believe what makes a sandbox trully special is its tools, not PvP.

    And the red underlined part is the rub.  What most die hard MO fans do not relaize, a good sanbox is not FFA pvp or FULL loot.  It is a large world full of tools, content, pve.  The problem with MO is there are too many wolves and not enough sheep.  There are no tools or content for the sheep to stay happy after getting ganked the 59th time. 

    If you have not played old school UO or EQ then you really do not know what a content filled sandbox is.  I really hate when I see some random MO player equating MO with EQ or UO.  MO is a sad sad wannabe compaierd to those two.  I am not just picking on MO, DF is not much better. 

    I played all 4 games (MO, DF, UO, EQ)  I was a pk in all games as well as social and crafting.  There is minimal MINIMAL social and crafting in DF and MO.  If there was as much social and crafting, trade tools, as pvp in MO there would not be a population or immersion problem.

  • osmundaosmunda slidell, LAPosts: 1,087Member

    Originally posted by kakasaki


    Amazing how touchy the "fans" of this game are...


     


    And there lies the problem of the low population: MO caters to a very small segment of the gaming population hence its very "niche" appeal. Coupled with the high learning curve and gank mentality of many of its players, is it really a wonder why the population is so low?


     


    P.S. You lose all credibility and sound like a "douche" when you use the old "go back to WoW" argument. Has become so much of a cliché, it actually says more about the person making the comment than it does about the intended recipient...

    "Then, to make it worse, the community in this game is kind of horrible. Like worse than wow horrible. Because at least in wow, all the d-bag immature griefers didn't have the tools to really just ruin everyones experience and then have the man-sac to call it roleplaying."

    The OP started with comparisons to WOW and Darkfall. He complains about the community in all three, doesn't mention any other game where he has found a good community and the only good thing he has to say about any community is "at least in wow, all the d-bag immature griefers didn't have the tools "

    That leaves the OP with three options, He can 1) keep looking for an MMO with what he deems a "good" community, 2)play a game with no PVP or 3) play a game where PVP is safely cordoned off in arenas so that d-bags don't have tools to affect your experience.

    Go back to WOW usually is a condescending response and cliche but in this case the OP invites the comparison and while "enjoy a game where PVP is safely cordoned off in arenas so that d-bags don't have tools to affect your experience" may have been more accurate, it's a bit awkward.

    @ moreplex: You must have missed the things they are working on for Dawn. Any sandbox MMO can use more tools. MO may not have as many as we would like, but they are working on adding more.

     Also, I don't think I would classify EQ as a "sandbox" game. If you are alluding to the possibility of losing all your equipment when you die, that is a calid point of comparison. However, IIRC that possibility  went away if you had guild mates with the right spells.

     

  • MoreplexMoreplex Parts UnknownPosts: 472Member

    Osmunda, EQ was not a themepark so what would you call it?  It may not have been as sandy as UO.  But it sure has more tools and content that MO.

    I did not miss what Dawn is proposing to have.  Wound system,  mutant strain horses will pop up in packs because the breeding system is not in yet, new slot mechanics for horses, more fish (even tho it does not sound like fishing is finished, fishing came out 6 months ago with it promised to be finished 2 weeks after and it still is not finished) a mail system almost like the EVE courier system, player house updates, and a new tutorial.  That sounds about right.  First most of that like the wound system, tutorial, and fishing should of been done a log time ago or at release.  You got to habd it to SV to give players stuff they should of had a long time ago and call it an "expansion".  Also I played through enough of SV's patches to understand I am not gooing to pine away for something that is not in the game yet.  We have all been let down many many times.  So to tell me I must have missed what is going on in the upcoming "dawn" thing as if the sandbox is finally coming is way off the mark for me.  And "working on adding more"  like I said we will talk about it when it is here not until then. 

     

    The reason I got on MMORPG is because I was looking for a new sandbox,  I have been to all the Sandbox themed threads.  And all the sandbox fans as well as me, feel MO is not anywhere near a sandbox.  I have Played UO, Shadowbane, EVE, EQ, MO, DF.  And I would rate MO and DF tied for last place.  It has nothing to do with pvp or getting ganked.  Hell I used to habe a murder house near one of the best mining spots in UO.  If I needed ore it was about 20 mins of killing and I was full.  But if I died I had real consequences.  It literally took me 10 mins in MO to stat up and regear to get back in the fight.  <------ That promotes the gankfest everyone is complaning about. 

  • DSBHRDSBHR Boise, IDPosts: 75Member

    A full loot FFA PVP game can't really claim to be realistic unless it also has permadeth.  Just sayin.....

  • HipsterHipster St Charles, MOPosts: 69Member

    Even without permadeath MO is still high on the realism bar. There has never been a 100% percent realistic game. They would have to do away with guild chat, characters would have to urinate, your voice would have to travel through the map as your real time voice would. You get my point.

     

    Also, to the OP. Everyone is not all evil in the game. I am in a RPK guild that doesnt grief blue players, that knows who are friends and ally's are, which are generally other RPK guilds because people with like minds band together against reds.

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