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All-Purpose Funcom Discussion Thread

AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,552Moderator Uncommon

Since we seem to be getting multiple threads about Funcom, opinions, questions, and other posts, in order to keep it organized and in one place, this is where future Funcom discussion/ gripes/questions in regards to this game should go. Other threads may be locked.

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

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Comments

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Thanks Amana. I'll start it off:

    Will they screw up again?

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Thanks Amana. I'll start it off:

    Will they screw up again?

    Maybe not, but they're going to be held to a higher standard because of their track record.

    Oddly enough, it works the same way for Bioware too.

    Infamy or fame, people demand so much more out of you!

  • onehunerdperonehunerdper corpus christi, TXPosts: 837Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Thanks Amana. I'll start it off:

    Will they screw up again?

    That's what I want to know, how have they screwed up before? I mean, are we talking SOE epicness or what?

    image
    image

  • spookydomspookydom BristolPosts: 1,782Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Thanks Amana. I'll start it off:

    Will they screw up again?

    Of course they will Dp. They are only human.........Or a breakout strain of A.I sent back from the future to destroy all of us. Despite their rep and the fact that I disliked AoC quiet a lot. I still have hope for Tsw.

    Good Idear for the thread Amana. Oraganisation is what I like to see.....I'm off to sort out my socks:)

    image

  • AirwrenAirwren Normal, ILPosts: 646Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Thanks Amana. I'll start it off:

    Will they screw up again?

    I am actually very interested in The Secret World but Funcom has a sketchy past when it comes to game launches.  I'm suffering from the once bitten twice shy syndrome with them.  However, I think they have a cool concept with the game and a lot of opportunity available to hit the market with this game when the market is really dry for quality MMO's.  I am hoping to God they've learned their lesson from AoC and will launch a complete product this time.  Having said that, I will most likely wait on this title until 90 days after launch unless the the first few weeks of launch seem to be going much smoother than their previous titles.

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by Meowhead

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Thanks Amana. I'll start it off:

    Will they screw up again?

    Maybe not, but they're going to be held to a higher standard because of their track record.

    Oddly enough, it works the same way for Bioware too.

    Infamy or fame, people demand so much more out of you!

    True words.

     

    Still, if you believe the age-old marketing dogma that negative publicity is publicity just the same, they do get a lot of extra attention compared to, say: an upstart indy company promising the second coming of Christ with their first ever project.

    Maybe they have been planning TSW to be their first really groundbreaking title all along ... and they sacrificed Robert E. Howard's legacy on their unholy altar to gain a sufficient amount of infamy to bring the Secet World to life.

    It is an consperancy ... V_V

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon

      Aww and I wanted to Post on 8 different threads too   :)

     seriously though, I hope they get this right.   I would Love to play a decent Lovecraftian MMO.  Luckily 2010 has my expecations really really low

     

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick WonderlandPosts: 7,619Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Thanks Amana. I'll start it off:

    Will they screw up again?

    Let me look at my mystical, allknowing 8-Ball for the answer.

     

    My 8 Ball states 'momentarily not available'. Darn it.

    Ok, let me flip a coin for the definite surefire answer, hold on...

     

     

    image

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    What they are showing us so far looks great.... kinda like Tortage from AoC.....

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by onehunerdper

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Thanks Amana. I'll start it off:

    Will they screw up again?

    That's what I want to know, how have they screwed up before? I mean, are we talking SOE epicness or what?

    Well, let's see .. AoC right after launch:

    Launch issues:

    - Utter bugfest; loads of quests not completable

    - Unstable client leading to hardcore bsod's with many people

    - Fun, rich content in the starting area (with voice overs, etc) leading you to very sparse, unfinished content in later area's.

    - Promised dungeons / pvp content / building keeps, etc wasn't fully implemented or just not working.

    - Class imbalance: I played a guardian with a lot of tank, when I engaged a similar tough class the fight often lasted for half an hour after which we both gave up and parted ways.

    General stuff:

    - Phasing of  public zones: being engaged in a nice skirmish, dying, ressing, running back to the fight only to find that you ressed in another instance of that zone after you wonder where everyone went all of a sudden. -> Not making mistakes like that required paying attention and micromanaging the instance interface all the time which is kind of immersion breaking to say the least.

    - Funny thing to contrast the above point was dungeons being public zones too: often leading to huge cluster***** in cramped corridors.

    - Utterly boring crafting

    - Everyone following the same epic 'solo hero' storyline. Everyone is the same damn saviour.

    - Zones being closed off and seperated by loading screens made it feel like the world wasn't 'whole'

     

    Anyway, those are my negatives from three months in AoC after launch. There were some good sides to it as well: general quality of graphics, combat system, etc. But they were overshadowed by the negatives and promises not kept. I have no doubt it has improved a lot since though, but I haven't been back to see for myself.

  • spookydomspookydom BristolPosts: 1,782Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by onehunerdper


    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Thanks Amana. I'll start it off:

    Will they screw up again?

    That's what I want to know, how have they screwed up before? I mean, are we talking SOE epicness or what?

    Well, let's see .. AoC right after launch:

    Launch issues:

    - Utter bugfest; loads of quests not completable

    - Unstable client leading to hardcore bsod's with many people

    - Fun, rich content in the starting area (with voice overs, etc) leading you to very sparse, unfinished content in later area's.

    - Promised dungeons / pvp content / building keeps, etc wasn't fully implemented or just not working.

    - Class imbalance: I played a guardian with a lot of tank, when I engaged a similar tough class the fight often lasted for half an hour after which we both gave up and parted ways.

    General stuff:

    - Phasing of  public zones: being engaged in a nice skirmish, dying, ressing, running back to the fight only to find that you ressed in another instance of that zone after you wonder where everyone went all of a sudden. -> Not making mistakes like that required paying attention and micromanaging the instance interface all the time which is kind of immersion breaking to say the least.

    - Funny thing to contrast the above point was dungeons being public zones too: often leading to huge cluster***** in cramped corridors.

    - Utterly boring crafting

    - Everyone following the same epic 'solo hero' storyline. Everyone is the same damn saviour.

    - Zones being closed off and seperated by loading screens made it feel like the world wasn't 'whole'

     

    Anyway, those are my negatives from three months in AoC after launch. There were some good sides to it as well: general quality of graphics, combat system, etc. But they were overshadowed by the negatives and promises not kept. I have no doubt it has improved a lot since though, but I haven't been back to see for myself.

    And let's not forget Anarchy Online launch day. Read this it's a classic. http://www.somethingawful.com/d/feature-articles/ianarchy-onlinei-first.php

    image

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by spookydom

    *snup*

    And let's not forget Anarchy Online launch day. Read this it's a classic. http://www.somethingawful.com/d/feature-articles/ianarchy-onlinei-first.php

    Oh wow ... and there was me thinking AoC was about the worst you could have at launch.

  • DivinefairyDivinefairy Toronto, ONPosts: 66Member

    They have provided nothing to assure me that the launch will not be painful.

     

    When the launch is painful the game will be insubstantial.

    image

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick WonderlandPosts: 7,619Member

    Yeah, I think that describes the difference between our experiences best. I didn't have a launch that felt 'painful', I had fun.

    In fact, none of the MMO's I played felt 'painful' to me in any way, so there's also no lingering hard feelings about it or any form of gaming trauma.

     


    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Well, let's see .. AoC right after launch:

    Launch issues:

    - Utter bugfest; loads of quests not completable

    ? Hardly seen that many quests that weren't completable, and I started I think 1 or 2 weeks after launch.

    - Unstable client leading to hardcore bsod's with many people

    A lot of crashes, true, a lot less Bsod's in the circles I played with; tbh, maybe 1 person I'd heard complaining about it, while about the crashes to desktop there were more ppl complaining about it.

    - Fun, rich content in the starting area (with voice overs, etc) leading you to very sparse, unfinished content in later area's.

    Very sparse is an exaggeration in my eyes, I think there were a few levels that forced you to do group content or villas, but that's it.

    - Promised dungeons / pvp content / building keeps, etc wasn't fully implemented or just not working.

    I can't tell, I don't know which dungeons they promised. It's a given that they raised a lot of expectations with how Gaute & co talked big before release.

    - Class imbalance: I played a guardian with a lot of tank, when I engaged a similar tough class the fight often lasted for half an hour after which we both gave up and parted ways.

    Ah yeah, hehe, saw it once. On the other hand, class imbalance is present in any MMO's, I did have great fun in Kheshatta though with pvp and also in the pvp encounters in the field.

     

    General stuff:

    - Phasing of  public zones: being engaged in a nice skirmish, dying, ressing, running back to the fight only to find that you ressed in another instance of that zone after you wonder where everyone went all of a sudden. -> Not making mistakes like that required paying attention and micromanaging the instance interface all the time which is kind of immersion breaking to say the least.

    ?? I can't recall this ever happening to me.

    - Funny thing to contrast the above point was dungeons being public zones too: often leading to huge cluster***** in cramped corridors.

    ? Sanctum was instanced, Black Castle too, or do you mean the Tarantia dungeons? And what is wrong with having instanced and public dungeons?

    - Utterly boring crafting True

    - Everyone following the same epic 'solo hero' storyline. Everyone is the same damn saviour.

    Yeah, true. On the other hand, the Destiny quests themselves were more interesting and engaging than in other MMO's.

    - Zones being closed off and seperated by loading screens made it feel like the world wasn't 'whole'

     This is a design decision. I don't see what this has to do with FC having 'screwed up'

    Anyway, those are my negatives from three months in AoC after launch. There were some good sides to it as well: general quality of graphics, combat system, etc. But they were overshadowed by the negatives and promises not kept. I have no doubt it has improved a lot since though, but I haven't been back to see for myself.

    It seems to me that a lot of it was more a list of your negative experiences in AoC, and a lot less with things in which they screwed up. I think the only thing that really falls in the category of FC having screwed up is a rushed launch leading to some unfinished features (like sieges) and bugs, and some of the AoC guys talking big, which raised expectations high without delivering on them. Those were the things that they mainly screwed up in, the rest is fluff, subjective or irrelevant or a matter of personal taste and preferences in an MMO.

     

    Basically it comes down to how your experiences were. I wasn't burdened by unrealistic expectations from before release, and the bugs felt hardly anytime worse than just annoying, so the fun and great gameplay experiences have stuck with me more than any negative aspects. For other people who had excessively high expectations and felt betrayed by promises or encouraging hints from ppl like Gaute or who can't tolerate bugs or an unpolished state at launch, for those the negative  blanketed out the positive points for their gameplay experience.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Yeah, I think that describes the difference between our experiences best. I didn't have a launch that felt 'painful', I had fun.

    In fact, none of the MMO's I played felt 'painful' to me in any way, so there's also no lingering hard feelings about it or any form of gaming trauma.

     


    Originally posted by DarkPony



    Well, let's see .. AoC right after launch:

    Launch issues:

    - Utter bugfest; loads of quests not completable

    ? Hardly seen that many quests that weren't completable, and I started I think 1 or 2 weeks after launch.

    I encountered quite a few.

    - Unstable client leading to hardcore bsod's with many people

    A lot of crashes, true, a lot less Bsod's in the circles I played with; tbh, maybe 1 person I'd heard complaining about it, while about the crashes to desktop there were more ppl complaining about it.

    True. I was one of the unlucky BSOD guys.

    - Fun, rich content in the starting area (with voice overs, etc) leading you to very sparse, unfinished content in later area's.

    Very sparse is an exaggeration in my eyes, I think there were a few levels that forced you to do group content or villas, but that's it.

    Well, at least there was a huge contrast between the content in Tortage and in the zones beyond in many people's eyes. It felt sparser to me. Mainly cookie cutter solo quests.

    - Promised dungeons / pvp content / building keeps, etc wasn't fully implemented or just not working.

    I can't tell, I don't know which dungeons they promised. It's a given that they raised a lot of expectations with how Gaute & co talked big before release.

    Aye.

    - Class imbalance: I played a guardian with a lot of tank, when I engaged a similar tough class the fight often lasted for half an hour after which we both gave up and parted ways.

    Ah yeah, hehe, saw it once. On the other hand, class imbalance is present in any MMO's, I did have great fun in Kheshatta though with pvp and also in the pvp encounters in the field.

    Yeah. Also had a lot of fun fighting over harvesting nodes.

     

    General stuff:

    - Phasing of  public zones: being engaged in a nice skirmish, dying, ressing, running back to the fight only to find that you ressed in another instance of that zone after you wonder where everyone went all of a sudden. -> Not making mistakes like that required paying attention and micromanaging the instance interface all the time which is kind of immersion breaking to say the least.

    ?? I can't recall this ever happening to me.

    Happened to me a few times because I didn't pay attention to the phasing management window. Anyway, having to manage the instance you play in felt like a huge impact on immersion for me. This and the closed off zone bit were maybe the most crucial downsides to me.

    - Funny thing to contrast the above point was dungeons being public zones too: often leading to huge cluster***** in cramped corridors.

    ? Sanctum was instanced, Black Castle too, or do you mean the Tarantia dungeons? And what is wrong with having instanced and public dungeons?

    It isn't wrong and potentially a lot of fun but it did end up in what I described above: huge cluster***** in cramped corridors.

    - Utterly boring crafting True

    - Everyone following the same epic 'solo hero' storyline. Everyone is the same damn saviour.

    Yeah, true. On the other hand, the Destiny quests themselves were more interesting and engaging than in other MMO's.

    - Zones being closed off and seperated by loading screens made it feel like the world wasn't 'whole'

     This is a design decision. I don't see what this has to do with FC having 'screwed up'

    Zones taped together with npc's to talk to or very small doors to interact with as a means to travel to another zone and not having open connections in many cases made it feel that I wasn't playing in a 'whole', gameworld and that is kind of a biggie for me personally.

    Anyway, those are my negatives from three months in AoC after launch. There were some good sides to it as well: general quality of graphics, combat system, etc. But they were overshadowed by the negatives and promises not kept. I have no doubt it has improved a lot since though, but I haven't been back to see for myself.

    It seems to me that a lot of it was more a list of your negative experiences in AoC, and a lot less with things in which they screwed up.

    True, but I never said they weren't just that: a list of things which I felt negative about. I clarify that in the last bit.^

    I think the only thing that really falls in the category of FC having screwed up is a rushed launch leading to some unfinished features (like sieges) and bugs, and some of the AoC guys talking big, which raised expectations high without delivering on them. Those were the things that they mainly screwed up in, the rest is fluff, subjective or irrelevant or a matter of personal taste and preferences in an MMO.

     Basically it comes down to how your experiences were. I wasn't burdened by unrealistic expectations from before release, and the bugs felt hardly anytime worse than just annoying, so the fun and great gameplay experiences have stuck with me more than any negative aspects. For other people who had excessively high expectations and felt betrayed by promises or encouraging hints from ppl like Gaute or who can't tolerate bugs or an unpolished state at launch, for those the negative  blanketed out the positive points for their gameplay experience.

    I do think also stuff like phasing of public zones and having closed off zones were kind of 'screwing it up' for more people than just me. An open, perpetual and 'whole' gameworld compared to a phased one with very seperate zones, is much more preferable to most people I reckon. Anyway, to me personally the screwing up was threefold:  lacking content / bugs and unstability / bad world design decisions.

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by spookydom


    *snup*

    And let's not forget Anarchy Online launch day. Read this it's a classic. http://www.somethingawful.com/d/feature-articles/ianarchy-onlinei-first.php

    Oh wow ... and there was me thinking AoC was about the worst you could have at launch.

    That's the thing... anecdotal evidence aside, as an overall whole, the general consensus appears to be that Anarchy Online and AoC were two of the most legendarily bad launch experiences ever for MMORPGs.

    I did not try AoC, because of Anarchy Online... I actually WAS one of those people crashing every two minutes.  It took a few patches before I could even play and get outside properly, and the crashes never really went away for me, totally.

    Now, I did have some fun in the game, and I remember being impressed by some things, but all the crashes, the bone-breaking lag and such left an overall bad taste in my mouth.  I quit, and was told a few months later that it was 'better', but first impressions are really important.

    So I decided that for AoC I'd wait for release and ask how it went.  My friends mostly had ' :( ' as their response, so I just shrugged and gave up.  Since I would have had to update my computer just to play it, i figured it wasn't worth spending lots of extra money just to maybe not enjoy myself.

    Never did get around to playing it!  Just like AO and AoC, TSW has an interesting concept, but... well, I'm not in some huge hurry to buy it at launch.  I can wait.  :)

  • strangerdangstrangerdang dirtville, IDPosts: 233Member

    Originally posted by Meowhead

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by spookydom

    *snup*

    And let's not forget Anarchy Online launch day. Read this it's a classic. http://www.somethingawful.com/d/feature-articles/ianarchy-onlinei-first.php

    Oh wow ... and there was me thinking AoC was about the worst you could have at launch.

    That's the thing... anecdotal evidence aside, as an overall whole, the general consensus appears to be that Anarchy Online and AoC were two of the most legendarily bad launch experiences ever for MMORPGs.

    I did not try AoC, because of Anarchy Online... I actually WAS one of those people crashing every two minutes.  It took a few patches before I could even play and get outside properly, and the crashes never really went away for me, totally.

    Now, I did have some fun in the game, and I remember being impressed by some things, but all the crashes, the bone-breaking lag and such left an overall bad taste in my mouth.  I quit, and was told a few months later that it was 'better', but first impressions are really important.

    So I decided that for AoC I'd wait for release and ask how it went.  My friends mostly had ' :( ' as their response, so I just shrugged and gave up.  Since I would have had to update my computer just to play it, i figured it wasn't worth spending lots of extra money just to maybe not enjoy myself.

    Never did get around to playing it!  Just like AO and AoC, TSW has an interesting concept, but... well, I'm not in some huge hurry to buy it at launch.  I can wait.  :)

     Comparing the AO launch and the AoC launch is kind of silly.

    In early 2001, i dont think it could have been forseen the amount of issues that would arise from launching a game of that magnitude to a huge audience.  Lets not forget that AO wansnt a standard issue game, it had tens of thousands of items, and actually predates viable graphics cards.  This is why they are attempting (with a tiny crew) to inpliment a new engin into AO, the old one basically ignores your graphic card, this is an attempt to extend the ancient games playability.  This is something you just dont see with larger game companies.  They get bought out by large companies, games that are not wild successes are scrapped, technology's bones are picked, and they release a stale and souless game to the dissapointment of many.

    Funcom didnt go this route. 

    With AoC, they had investors and owners of the IP breathing down their neck, the game HAD to be released early to satisfy them and in an attempt to clinch the marketplace due to excessive advertising and hype...IT WORKED, they sold millions of boxes, true most didnt stay, but they made a good chunk of money, enough to sustain losses and keep AoC going, not only maintaining it but further developing it.  AoC was a work of art, graphics like that were unseen before it in  the mmorpg world, and it was obvious that the lions share of prelaunch development went into the look rather the meat of the game.  However, in traditional funcom spirit, they stuck with it.  They managed to turn it into a game that not only looked great, but had (imo) one of the best combat systems to date in a mmo.  Eventhough it didnt need it, they even upgraded to a new game engin, which leads me to believe that they are pretesting TSW's engin (a good thing) but also planning to stick with AoC for quite some time.  I imagine a lot of posters old and grey posting 10 years from now about how much AoC sucks because it had a bad launch 12 years ago...

     

    So the big question is will they rush the launch, we all know what happens when any game makes a mad dash to launch.  My guess is that they wont, however i know there will be issues come launch, and a bunch of people will go "ah ha! told you so"

    Those who cant take a possible rocky road should wait out TSW, those who know that it will eventually be a great game, will stick around and enjoy it for what its worth untill its a solid game.

    The only way i can see this game being a huge failure is for the game to not be diffrent.  A grindy skill based themepark with no soul.  However this would be a first for funcom, i dont see it happening. 

    TSW seems more like an AO type game, a unique entry, not a IP cover like AoC directed at the wow audience.  This game seems to be pointed directly at those of us who dont want that type of game.

    If it means anything you you guys, i talked about TSW in Rift.  The community LOL'ed at me....it wasnt fantasy, no OP class for them to pick.. "no thanks", to me that was a good thing.  A lot of the features and game "style" i brought up was scoffed at, it wasnt the kind of game they are looking for (Rift is a displaced wow community if you didnt know already...and the ALL are playing while waiting out that starwars game btw)

     

    I just hope they take their time and have a quiet launch, people have no patience for crappy launches anymore, especially from funcom.

  • JazuhJazuh TvedestrandPosts: 31Member

    Originally posted by strangerdang

    Originally posted by Meowhead


    Originally posted by DarkPony


    Originally posted by spookydom


    *snup*

    And let's not forget Anarchy Online launch day. Read this it's a classic. http://www.somethingawful.com/d/feature-articles/ianarchy-onlinei-first.php

    Oh wow ... and there was me thinking AoC was about the worst you could have at launch.

    That's the thing... anecdotal evidence aside, as an overall whole, the general consensus appears to be that Anarchy Online and AoC were two of the most legendarily bad launch experiences ever for MMORPGs.

    I did not try AoC, because of Anarchy Online... I actually WAS one of those people crashing every two minutes.  It took a few patches before I could even play and get outside properly, and the crashes never really went away for me, totally.

    Now, I did have some fun in the game, and I remember being impressed by some things, but all the crashes, the bone-breaking lag and such left an overall bad taste in my mouth.  I quit, and was told a few months later that it was 'better', but first impressions are really important.

    So I decided that for AoC I'd wait for release and ask how it went.  My friends mostly had ' :( ' as their response, so I just shrugged and gave up.  Since I would have had to update my computer just to play it, i figured it wasn't worth spending lots of extra money just to maybe not enjoy myself.

    Never did get around to playing it!  Just like AO and AoC, TSW has an interesting concept, but... well, I'm not in some huge hurry to buy it at launch.  I can wait.  :)

     Comparing the AO launch and the AoC launch is kind of silly.

    In early 2001, i dont think it could have been forseen the amount of issues that would arise from launching a game of that magnitude to a huge audience.  Lets not forget that AO wansnt a standard issue game, it had tens of thousands of items, and actually predates viable graphics cards.  This is why they are attempting (with a tiny crew) to inpliment a new engin into AO, the old one basically ignores your graphic card, this is an attempt to extend the ancient games playability.  This is something you just dont see with larger game companies.  They get bought out by large companies, games that are not wild successes are scrapped, technology's bones are picked, and they release a stale and souless game to the dissapointment of many.

    Funcom didnt go this route. 

    With AoC, they had investors and owners of the IP breathing down their neck, the game HAD to be released early to satisfy them and in an attempt to clinch the marketplace due to excessive advertising and hype...IT WORKED, they sold millions of boxes, true most didnt stay, but they made a good chunk of money, enough to sustain losses and keep AoC going, not only maintaining it but further developing it.  AoC was a work of art, graphics like that were unseen before it in  the mmorpg world, and it was obvious that the lions share of prelaunch development went into the look rather the meat of the game.  However, in traditional funcom spirit, they stuck with it.  They managed to turn it into a game that not only looked great, but had (imo) one of the best combat systems to date in a mmo.  Eventhough it didnt need it, they even upgraded to a new game engin, which leads me to believe that they are pretesting TSW's engin (a good thing) but also planning to stick with AoC for quite some time.  I imagine a lot of posters old and grey posting 10 years from now about how much AoC sucks because it had a bad launch 12 years ago...

     

    So the big question is will they rush the launch, we all know what happens when any game makes a mad dash to launch.  My guess is that they wont, however i know there will be issues come launch, and a bunch of people will go "ah ha! told you so"

    Those who cant take a possible rocky road should wait out TSW, those who know that it will eventually be a great game, will stick around and enjoy it for what its worth untill its a solid game.

    The only way i can see this game being a huge failure is for the game to not be diffrent.  A grindy skill based themepark with no soul.  However this would be a first for funcom, i dont see it happening. 

    TSW seems more like an AO type game, a unique entry, not a IP cover like AoC directed at the wow audience.  This game seems to be pointed directly at those of us who dont want that type of game.

    If it means anything you you guys, i talked about TSW in Rift.  The community LOL'ed at me....it wasnt fantasy, no OP class for them to pick.. "no thanks", to me that was a good thing.  A lot of the features and game "style" i brought up was scoffed at, it wasnt the kind of game they are looking for (Rift is a displaced wow community if you didnt know already...and the ALL are playing while waiting out that starwars game btw)

     

    I just hope they take their time and have a quiet launch, people have no patience for crappy launches anymore, especially from funcom.

    Couldn't have said it better myself my friend, kudos to you!

    Gaming is a passion.

  • BlaaskjeBlaaskje SarpsborgPosts: 1Member

    For me this game seems so different from all else that has been created earlier, so i'll surely give it a go... If it doesn't live up to my expectations however, I don't have any problems cancelling my subscription, and going back to wow...

  • dreldrel san francisco, CAPosts: 918Member

    Originally posted by Jazuh

    Originally posted by strangerdang

    Originally posted by Meowhead

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by spookydom

    *snup*

    And let's not forget Anarchy Online launch day. Read this it's a classic. http://www.somethingawful.com/d/feature-articles/ianarchy-onlinei-first.php

    Oh wow ... and there was me thinking AoC was about the worst you could have at launch.

    That's the thing... anecdotal evidence aside, as an overall whole, the general consensus appears to be that Anarchy Online and AoC were two of the most legendarily bad launch experiences ever for MMORPGs.

    I did not try AoC, because of Anarchy Online... I actually WAS one of those people crashing every two minutes.  It took a few patches before I could even play and get outside properly, and the crashes never really went away for me, totally.

    Now, I did have some fun in the game, and I remember being impressed by some things, but all the crashes, the bone-breaking lag and such left an overall bad taste in my mouth.  I quit, and was told a few months later that it was 'better', but first impressions are really important.

    So I decided that for AoC I'd wait for release and ask how it went.  My friends mostly had ' :( ' as their response, so I just shrugged and gave up.  Since I would have had to update my computer just to play it, i figured it wasn't worth spending lots of extra money just to maybe not enjoy myself.

    Never did get around to playing it!  Just like AO and AoC, TSW has an interesting concept, but... well, I'm not in some huge hurry to buy it at launch.  I can wait.  :)

     Comparing the AO launch and the AoC launch is kind of silly.

    In early 2001, i dont think it could have been forseen the amount of issues that would arise from launching a game of that magnitude to a huge audience.  Lets not forget that AO wansnt a standard issue game, it had tens of thousands of items, and actually predates viable graphics cards.  This is why they are attempting (with a tiny crew) to inpliment a new engin into AO, the old one basically ignores your graphic card, this is an attempt to extend the ancient games playability.  This is something you just dont see with larger game companies.  They get bought out by large companies, games that are not wild successes are scrapped, technology's bones are picked, and they release a stale and souless game to the dissapointment of many.

    Funcom didnt go this route. 

    With AoC, they had investors and owners of the IP breathing down their neck, the game HAD to be released early to satisfy them and in an attempt to clinch the marketplace due to excessive advertising and hype...IT WORKED, they sold millions of boxes, true most didnt stay, but they made a good chunk of money, enough to sustain losses and keep AoC going, not only maintaining it but further developing it.  AoC was a work of art, graphics like that were unseen before it in  the mmorpg world, and it was obvious that the lions share of prelaunch development went into the look rather the meat of the game.  However, in traditional funcom spirit, they stuck with it.  They managed to turn it into a game that not only looked great, but had (imo) one of the best combat systems to date in a mmo.  Eventhough it didnt need it, they even upgraded to a new game engin, which leads me to believe that they are pretesting TSW's engin (a good thing) but also planning to stick with AoC for quite some time.  I imagine a lot of posters old and grey posting 10 years from now about how much AoC sucks because it had a bad launch 12 years ago...

     

    So the big question is will they rush the launch, we all know what happens when any game makes a mad dash to launch.  My guess is that they wont, however i know there will be issues come launch, and a bunch of people will go "ah ha! told you so"

    Those who cant take a possible rocky road should wait out TSW, those who know that it will eventually be a great game, will stick around and enjoy it for what its worth untill its a solid game.

    The only way i can see this game being a huge failure is for the game to not be diffrent.  A grindy skill based themepark with no soul.  However this would be a first for funcom, i dont see it happening. 

    TSW seems more like an AO type game, a unique entry, not a IP cover like AoC directed at the wow audience.  This game seems to be pointed directly at those of us who dont want that type of game.

    If it means anything you you guys, i talked about TSW in Rift.  The community LOL'ed at me....it wasnt fantasy, no OP class for them to pick.. "no thanks", to me that was a good thing.  A lot of the features and game "style" i brought up was scoffed at, it wasnt the kind of game they are looking for (Rift is a displaced wow community if you didnt know already...and the ALL are playing while waiting out that starwars game btw)

     

    I just hope they take their time and have a quiet launch, people have no patience for crappy launches anymore, especially from funcom.

    Couldn't have said it better myself my friend, kudos to you!

     I agree with this post-I can only hope TSW turns out to be more of the interactive sandbox novel it appears to be. Where you control the novel by how you interact with the NPC's within the novel as well as other gamers ingame.

  • lectrocudalectrocuda Las Vegas, NVPosts: 604Member

    Lets be honest.

     

    The first 20 levels of AoC were amazing, aside from graphical glitches, it was a stunning presentation of a starter area in an mmo.

     

    The problem was it lost its shine the further you got from tortage, at least for me anyway.

     

    Now we have Tornquist on the job, and I do believe if they can expand upon the first 20 levels of AoC, as far as presentation is concerned, I think TSW will hit it just right, yes, I am talking g spot.

     

    However, time will tell.

     

    I believe mmos have a co-efficient ratio as far as what is promised and what is reality. However I do think there comes a point when the ratio goes from being directly proportionate to inversely once they exceed a certain amount of promised content. However, it is only a theoretical co-efficient as we are moving forward and with technology, and trial and error, we will eventually reach that what we grasp for.

    To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.

  • jetfacejetface Somewhere, TXPosts: 18Member

    I expect this game to follow the trend of AOC, which I have played since launch.  Excellent graphics and animation, good storyline, and an overall interesting and beautiful world.  Those are the good parts.  If Funcom knows how to do one thing well, it is bait players.  The first 20 levels of AOC are a great example of this and are probably the most enjoyable in the game (except now that they removed pvp in these zones).

     

    Funcom is and will continue to promise amazing things from TSW and, in all honesty, I think they believe they can deliver.  But they can't and they won't (in my opinion).  Just like in AOC, they will say and do whatever it takes to maintain as large a player base as possible for as long as possible.  Funcom doesn't seem to follow the logic that players will want to play a good, stable game.  Instead they do their best to convince you that you want to play because of this next awesome thing they will be releasing.  Instead you get some strange version of what they promised but, wait!  The next release will have what you are looking for.  And repeat.

     

    On top of this, I have never played a game that was exploited and hacked as much as AOC.  But Funcom seemed to care less.  Welll known exploits existed for over a year and Funcom's typical fix was to punish everyone with bad, ill-thought patches rather than deal with the exploiters.  There was a well known cheat program that probably did nearly as well as Funcom (due to less overhead).

     

    If you are interested in the game, though, I would definitely go for it.  If you can overlook the often glaring problems with their games, they are fun to play for the most part.  But if you start noticing these trends, don't fool yourself that things will be different in a few months.  Things will go downhill and continue to go downhill.  I've watched AOC go from a game with great potential into a gear-based, grindy mess where the common approach to doing anything is figuring out how to exploit it.

     

    Here's hoping, though, that Funcom turns over a new leaf.  But I seriously doubt it and will pass on TSW.  In fact, I will never play another Funcom game again.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick WonderlandPosts: 7,619Member

    Originally posted by jetface

    Funcom doesn't seem to follow the logic that players will want to play a good, stable game.

    Eh... they had a rough launch with a too-early released game with AoC, but it was a good MMORPG and after a couple of months, also a stable game. In fact, it's one of the better MMORPG's around in my eyes. But yeah, they should've released the game as it was a year after launch, with a lot of content issues and bugs straightened out.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • jetfacejetface Somewhere, TXPosts: 18Member

    Don't forget their expansion last year that many players couldn't even zone into without crashing.  And their DX10 update that reduced performance for many players despite their claims that, even for DX9 users, performance would increase.  Coupled with patches that led to players falling through the world in instances, funcom has routinely fixed one thing and caused issues with another.

     

    As far as connection stability, it has become better than launch, but launch connectivity was abysmal.  It could've only become worse if AOC caused disconnection problems in other software.

     

    I do agree, though, that AOC is better than anything out there right now.  I just feel, as many other players do, that the games potential was wasted by poor decisions by Funcom.  I give them full props for the innovations they introduced with the game.  They are why I still play (well, and my year sub re-upped because I forgot to cancel and they wouldn't refund it when I realized the next day).  Like I said before, if you can overlook the glaring problems, exploits, hacks, etc., AOC is fun to play.  If you are playing any other MMO, you should be playing AOC. 

     

    The combat system, while watered down now, was a welcome change when the game launched.  Funcom eventually decided to cater to players that couldn't handle the combo system (they said this themselves) and made casters operate like every other MMO.  And in doing so, create easy mode classes (again something they admitted to), in order to maintain subscribers.  This is just one example of many decisions made by Funcom that were driven by making money rather than raising the bar in the MMO industry.  Which is why the game's potential was wasted.

     

    In the end, Funcom will say and do anything to make money.  That is their #1 priority.  They could care less about the player experience or breaking new ground.  I think their developers want to break new ground but they are hamstrung by the sales team.  And making money, of course, should be a top priority of any for-profit company.  But most find that customer satisfaction is the way to do this, rather than taking the Funcom approach of making promises they don't keep.  For instance, DX10 was supposed to be in game from launch but wasn't fully implemented until over 2 years later.  And they put that on the box!  Talk about false advertising.

     

    Again, hopefully I'm wrong, but when TSW launches, lets see what claims Funcom is making that still hold water a month or two down the road.

     

    By the way, Maverick, do you still play AOC?  Why do or don't you?

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick WonderlandPosts: 7,619Member

    Originally posted by jetface

    The combat system, while watered down now, was a welcome change when the game launched.  Funcom eventually decided to cater to players that couldn't handle the combo system (they said this themselves) and made casters operate like every other MMO.  And in doing so, create easy mode classes (again something they admitted to), in order to maintain subscribers.  This is just one example of many decisions made by Funcom that were driven by making money rather than raising the bar in the MMO industry.  Which is why the game's potential was wasted.



    Again, hopefully I'm wrong, but when TSW launches, lets see what claims Funcom is making that still hold water a month or two down the road.

     

    By the way, Maverick, do you still play AOC?  Why do or don't you?

    Ah heya, only just now saw this post image

     

    As for the combat system, it's my firm conviction that they should have implemented their combat system for ALL classes, but then with the addition of the new ranger combo system.

    Why? The most heard problem is that when you do a skill you have to perform a number of directional white attacks (swing right - swing upper left - strike from above - etc) before you can do the combo finisher. The ranger combo system is variable: you can either fire off the skill without preceding strikes, or  you can load up several directional attacks that each add a wide range of effects depending upon the combo skill you want to fire off: so you can for example either fire off a 3-arrow attack straight away, or you can precede it with a left directional attack that fires an arrow and loads up a root effect for the combo finisher or you can fire an upper right directional attack first which adds an armor penetrating effect, or you do both those directional attacks first and then you fire off the 3-arrow combo attack but now they're armor penetrating and root your opponent.

    The possibilities would be ingenious, it adds tact and strategy to each fight - do I fire my combo straight away or do I add effects on it - while still being flexible and offering you choice: when this was finetuned and balanced and implemented at launch, their combat system would have defeated any traditional combat system around.

    For now, melee combat in AoC is still better and more engaging than in most other MMO's, but it isn't as good as it could be, it's halfway there. Sadly enough, this applies to a lot of innovations and different gameplay features that the AoC team tried to implement.

     

    As for AoC, nope, I don't play it anymore, it's been a great time but most of my friends and people I teamed up with most left over the course of time, so less reason for me to stick around. But who knows, when the new expansion really comes through with the Conan movie release that I hop back in. That is, if I'm not busy with any of the upcoming MMO's by then.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

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