PvP just became more tatical

whilanwhilan Everett, WAMember UncommonPosts: 3,472

Okay i know this is covered in the fan summit link but unless you scour them all you may not come across this, so i'm going to point it out directly so people have a easier time finding it.

http://www.torocast.com/index.php/news/swtor-news/item/526-fansite-summit-georg-zoeller-interview

If you want to hear him say it, it's the second question, right after the one about what his job entails.

Concerning PvP and auto facing.

Georg states

In PvE you have an auto turn feature in which when you use an ability you flip around to face the enemy.

This is of course assuming that you are standing still. Moving does not trigger this feature so as not to interfere with your moving ability.

However in PvP there is no auto turn feature, meaning you can lose your opponet and hide behind a tree and attack from a distance or use invis and completely lose them as they can't just use an ability to find you.

This shows to me they understand about PvP.

Crowd control immunity. no auto facing, abilities to go invisable, hide behind barriers. Sounds interesting to me at the very least.

Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

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Comments

  • jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKMember Posts: 628

    I dont want to be a negative nancy, but this is very run of the mill.

    edit: in fact, this is usually a part of pve too. Not sure why it has any auto turn in the first place.

    I'm also not sure why any of the other things you listed make pvp interesting, I'm pretty sure most mmo's have stealth,cc diminishing returns,los, ect.

  • KalmporosKalmporos GroumpaMember UncommonPosts: 292

    PvP confirmed for bunnyhopping yay!

  • chiksochikso NtoziMember Posts: 150

    Why have auto turn in PvE in the first place? I always took for granted such a feature was not going to appear in swtor, I'm not aware it even exists in notable MMOs except maybe Lineage 2 and Aion.

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Member Posts: 2,034

    My opinion is that in pvp with no auto facing+ tab targeting+ no collision = bad control.

    Nothing iritate me more than having oponent going through me and having no way to know where i should turn to face him properly. When controls can't respond porperly i just want to rage quit.

     

    If they want to keep a no auto facing + tab targeting, they absolutly need to put collision on, thats the minimum. If they can't put collision on for whatever reason they absolutly need to put auto facing. Everything else lead to badly made character control to me.

  • GMan3GMan3 Ewa Beach, HIMember CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by chikso

    Why have auto turn in PvE in the first place? I always took for granted such a feature was not going to appear in swtor, I'm not aware it even exists in notable MMOs except maybe Lineage 2 and Aion.

         Actaully, it appears in most of your newer MMO's.  My guess is so that complicated animations don't look silly like, "Hey look, did you just see me do the flying kick forward and damage the guy behind me?  That was so . . . lame."  Done well and auto turn feature looks good and fluid.  Done poorly it just looks silly.  Hopefully they are going to put the extra work in to make it look fluid.  Seeing as they have for most other parts of the game though, I don't think I will have to worry about this.

        I do agree with the PvP crowd though that auto-facing should not be in PvP.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKMember Posts: 628

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    My opinion is that in pvp with no auto facing+ tab targeting+ no collision = bad control.
    Nothing iritate me more than having oponent going through me and having no way to know where i should turn to face him properly. When controls can't respond porperly i just want to rage quit.
     
    If they want to keep a no auto facing + tab targeting, they absolutly need to put collision on, thats the minimum.

    Like the previous user mentioned, I really can't recall many mmo's that had auto-facing besides for f2p ones and one or two notable mmo's... maybe I'm just not thinking clear, mind listing some?

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Member Posts: 2,034

    Originally posted by jadedlevir


    Originally posted by Requiamer

    My opinion is that in pvp with no auto facing+ tab targeting+ no collision = bad control.
    Nothing iritate me more than having oponent going through me and having no way to know where i should turn to face him properly. When controls can't respond porperly i just want to rage quit.
     
    If they want to keep a no auto facing + tab targeting, they absolutly need to put collision on, thats the minimum.

    Like the previous user mentioned, I really can't recall many mmo's that had auto-facing besides for f2p ones and one or two notable mmo's... maybe I'm just not thinking clear, mind listing some?

    the list would be too long

  • jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKMember Posts: 628

    Originally posted by Requiamer


    Originally posted by jadedlevir



    Originally posted by Requiamer


    My opinion is that in pvp with no auto facing+ tab targeting+ no collision = bad control.
    Nothing iritate me more than having oponent going through me and having no way to know where i should turn to face him properly. When controls can't respond porperly i just want to rage quit.
     
    If they want to keep a no auto facing + tab targeting, they absolutly need to put collision on, thats the minimum.

    Like the previous user mentioned, I really can't recall many mmo's that had auto-facing besides for f2p ones and one or two notable mmo's... maybe I'm just not thinking clear, mind listing some?

    the list would be too long

    I guess I'm just too use to facing manually...it seems such common sense.

  • whilanwhilan Everett, WAMember UncommonPosts: 3,472

    Originally posted by Elesthor

    PvP confirmed for bunnyhopping yay!

    :P

    Actually with CC abilities like knockback, that wire thing, carbonite spray and things like that there are many disabling abilities to stop something like that from occuring.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • XerithXerith Richardson, TXMember Posts: 970

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    My opinion is that in pvp with no auto facing+ tab targeting+ no collision = bad control.
    Nothing iritate me more than having oponent going through me and having no way to know where i should turn to face him properly. When controls can't respond porperly i just want to rage quit.
     
    If they want to keep a no auto facing + tab targeting, they absolutly need to put collision on, thats the minimum. If they can't put collision on for whatever reason they absolutly need to put auto facing. Everything else lead to badly made character control to me.

    Sorry but ive never seen a game where the "controls can't respond properly", sounds like human error to me. If you are having to move to counter the person attacking you to constantly face him, then you need to re-adjust yourself to regain control of the movement and force them to turn to have to face you, there are many ways to doing this from using your skills to get distance and readjust your position, using terrain, or moving through them a few times to throw them off. 

    Also do we know if collision is in or not?

    Sorry but clicking on them just to turn yourself towards them is completely boring and takes a lot of fun out of playing an mdps character. 

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Member Posts: 2,034

    Originally posted by jadedlevir


    Originally posted by Requiamer


    Originally posted by jadedlevir


    Originally posted by Requiamer

    My opinion is that in pvp with no auto facing+ tab targeting+ no collision = bad control.
    Nothing iritate me more than having oponent going through me and having no way to know where i should turn to face him properly. When controls can't respond porperly i just want to rage quit.
     
    If they want to keep a no auto facing + tab targeting, they absolutly need to put collision on, thats the minimum.

    Like the previous user mentioned, I really can't recall many mmo's that had auto-facing besides for f2p ones and one or two notable mmo's... maybe I'm just not thinking clear, mind listing some?

    the list would be too long

    I guess I'm just too use to facing manually...it seems such common sense.

    If you read my post correctly you would understand auto facing or not isn't a problem for me; it is how this feature is combined with other combat features. No auto facing with a collision system is very valid since nobody will ever be inside you fighting, that mean the controls would react properly.

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Member Posts: 2,034

    Originally posted by Xerith

    ...or moving through them a few times to throw them off. 
    Also do we know if collision is in or not?
     

     1- i think you responded to your own question, when going through your oponent to throw them off is a valid tactic to you, i think it is badly made combat system to me.

    2- from what i know there is no collision and that is exactly why i post this since it make no sense to me.

     

    Also i don't even understand how a new gen mmo can have no collision system, i mean half the mmo have them now, its not a terrible feature to have really.

  • XerithXerith Richardson, TXMember Posts: 970

    Im all for collision, personally I think it adds a lot of tactical depth to a fight, especially in larger scale battles. Tank walls in the doorways and on the ramps were fantastic to be apart of in War. 

    Still against clicking to auto face, however, but really it just comes down to personal opinion. 

  • jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKMember Posts: 628

    Originally posted by Requiamer


    Originally posted by jadedlevir



    Originally posted by Requiamer



    Originally posted by jadedlevir



    Originally posted by Requiamer

     

     

    the list would be too long

    I guess I'm just too use to facing manually...it seems such common sense.

    If you read my post correctly you would understand auto facing or not isn't a problem for me; it is how this feature is combined with other combat features. No auto facing with a collision system is very valid since nobody will ever be inside you fighting, that mean the controls would react properly.

    Oh, no, I know what your saying, but you were just talking about it like it was so common, but I can't think of many outside of f2p that do auto-turn.

    Also, I'm not sure what you mean by controls not working properly.  I'm assuming you don't like the strategy that people use in games like wow, where they run through you to counteract your spell. It is clumsy, so i agree with that, but I'll still do it any chance i get lolimage

     

    I do wish mmo's would just adopt collision though...it's about time. Just turn it off in certain areas...like cities.

  • Ralphie2449Ralphie2449 GreeceMember UncommonPosts: 406

    Originally posted by whilan

    Okay i know this is covered in the fan summit link but unless you scour them all you may not come across this, so i'm going to point it out directly so people have a easier time finding it.
    http://www.torocast.com/index.php/news/swtor-news/item/526-fansite-summit-georg-zoeller-interview
    If you want to hear him say it, it's the second question, right after the one about what his job entails.
    Concerning PvP and auto facing.
    Georg states
    In PvE you have an auto turn feature in which when you use an ability you flip around to face the enemy.
    This is of course assuming that you are standing still. Moving does not trigger this feature so as not to interfere with your moving ability.
    However in PvP there is no auto turn feature, meaning you can lose your opponet and hide behind a tree and attack from a distance or use invis and completely lose them as they can't just use an ability to find you.
    This shows to me they understand about PvP.
    Crowd control immunity. no auto facing, abilities to go invisable, hide behind barriers. Sounds interesting to me at the very least.

    Hmmm suprising, maybe they have brains. which are far more important than expirience

    Trying to improve pvp with interesting features while also have it balanced.

    I always like biowares rpgs with funny quotes but i didnt expect them to care for pvp and even ahve the brains to balance it

    Bioware just made me feel 99% better

  • HengistHengist TexasMember UncommonPosts: 1,049

    Before I say they know what they are doing in PvP (and based on what I've seen so far, I'm leaning towards optimism) I think its jumping the gun speculating today. This coming week we've got the feedback from the Fan Sites and press based on their time with PvP (and with the other classes on Origin Worlds).


    It'll be far, far, far more interesting to see what comes up then than just the auto-facing bit.

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Member Posts: 2,034

    Originally posted by jadedlevir


    Originally posted by Requiamer


    Originally posted by jadedlevir


    Originally posted by Requiamer


    Originally posted by jadedlevir


    Originally posted by Requiamer

     

     

    the list would be too long

    I guess I'm just too use to facing manually...it seems such common sense.

    If you read my post correctly you would understand auto facing or not isn't a problem for me; it is how this feature is combined with other combat features. No auto facing with a collision system is very valid since nobody will ever be inside you fighting, that mean the controls would react properly.

    Oh, no, I know what your saying, but you were just talking about it like it was so common, but I can't think of many outside of f2p that do auto-turn.

    Also, I'm not sure what you mean by controls not working properly.  I'm assuming you don't like the strategy that people use in games like wow, where they run through you to counteract your spell. It is clumsy, so i agree with that, but I'll still do it any chance i get lolimage

     

    I do wish mmo's would just adopt collision though...it's about time. Just turn it off in certain areas...like cities.

     pretty much all the tab targeting combat system pre Wow had auto facing (and im sure a lot of post Wow too). Ye its clumsy that's what i'm talking about. Having clumsy control isn't something to be proud of as a game developer, since smooth control are generally the first thing they try to acheive.

    They are very good collision system now, you don't even have to turn them off in town, and they are pretty much grief proof if well done, no more guy standing at a doorway to grief.

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 fresno, CAMember UncommonPosts: 1,431

    It makes sense in the synchronized combat that TOR has in PvE. The NPC mob and Player need to line up correctly for the lightsaber collision to take place. So you hit a mob in front of you and then your lightsaber auto-blocks the shot or sword swing from behind you. Or if the NPC mob moves, you don't hit it even though it is not in front of you. A kill can have multiple swings, so if you don't auto-face the mob, it would just look wrong.

     

    But not having it in PvP is a good thing. Especially on CC skills so you may be able to get out of range or lose LOS. Now the synchronized combat may not work in PvP because of this. But hopefully we will all find out next week when they allow the TORTOUR players to let us know how the PvP went. A PvP friday update would be nice too.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKMember Posts: 628

    Originally posted by Baikal

    Before I say they know what they are doing in PvP (and based on what I've seen so far, I'm leaning towards optimism) I think its jumping the gun speculating today. This coming week we've got the feedback from the Fan Sites and press based on their time with PvP (and with the other classes on Origin Worlds).


    It'll be far, far, far more interesting to see what comes up then than just the auto-facing bit.

    If combat is fun and balanced, than any game can have decent pvp. But I want something deep and interesting about the system itself. Like the W-v-W-v-W thing in gw2 seems new and interesting instead of just battlegrounds and world pvp events. Sieging systems, naval battles and destruction like archage and darkfall ect., I wish these things where used more.

    I'm sure the pvp in swtor will at least be as fun as the combat system. I'll give bioware the benefit of the doubt that it's pvp doens't turn out like rift, but the rest I'll wait till its out to the public.


  • Originally posted by Xerith


    Originally posted by Requiamer


    My opinion is that in pvp with no auto facing+ tab targeting+ no collision = bad control.
    Nothing iritate me more than having oponent going through me and having no way to know where i should turn to face him properly. When controls can't respond porperly i just want to rage quit.
     
    If they want to keep a no auto facing + tab targeting, they absolutly need to put collision on, thats the minimum. If they can't put collision on for whatever reason they absolutly need to put auto facing. Everything else lead to badly made character control to me.

    Sorry but ive never seen a game where the "controls can't respond properly", sounds like human error to me. If you are having to move to counter the person attacking you to constantly face him, then you need to re-adjust yourself to regain control of the movement and force them to turn to have to face you, there are many ways to doing this from using your skills to get distance and readjust your position, using terrain, or moving through them a few times to throw them off. 

    Also do we know if collision is in or not?

    Sorry but clicking on them just to turn yourself towards them is completely boring and takes a lot of fun out of playing an mdps character. 

    collision is not in

  • jadedlevirjadedlevir Kansas, AKMember Posts: 628

    Originally posted by Requiamer


    Originally posted by jadedlevir



    Originally posted by Requiamer



    Originally posted by jadedlevir



    Originally posted by Requiamer



    Originally posted by jadedlevir



    Originally posted by Requiamer

     

     

    the list would be too long

    I guess I'm just too use to facing manually...it seems such common sense.

    If you read my post correctly you would understand auto facing or not isn't a problem for me; it is how this feature is combined with other combat features. No auto facing with a collision system is very valid since nobody will ever be inside you fighting, that mean the controls would react properly.


    Ah , i wasn't thinking  I guess.   In this game, I don't think they're trying to deviate very far from the mold... but I do wish guidl wars 2 had collision

  • well looks like running through players wont cancel abilities:

     

    GeorgZoeller General Discussion -> Autofacing not in PvP, confirmed




    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Aliciabeme View Post


    I made it through 15 pages of debate on the word "bunny hop" before I finally gave up.



    Has anyone addressed the issue of casters in PVP? Is this going to be a *casts for 2 seconds, enemy walks behind you, cast is cancelled, player beats the hell out of you* senario now? I sure hope not...


    There's a check upon ability activation to verify you can see your target (front facing).



    After that, your character will be tracking the target - jumping through you, bunny hopping, running in circles won't break the ability channeling. The only things that can break the channel after initial activation is:



    a) Use an ability that interrupts channeling (such as Force push, stuns, etc.)



    b) Break line of sight (360 degree) with the character, e.g. by running behind a wall or jumping down a pit.



    This applies both in PvP and PvE.

  • azrael466azrael466 hillsboro, ORMember Posts: 365

    So there is auto-facing in pvp, but only after you start a cast.

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  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 fresno, CAMember UncommonPosts: 1,431

    Originally posted by gaou

    well looks like running through players wont cancel abilities:
     
    GeorgZoeller General Discussion -> Autofacing not in PvP, confirmed



    Quote:





    Originally Posted by Aliciabeme View Post

    I made it through 15 pages of debate on the word "bunny hop" before I finally gave up.



    Has anyone addressed the issue of casters in PVP? Is this going to be a *casts for 2 seconds, enemy walks behind you, cast is cancelled, player beats the hell out of you* senario now? I sure hope not...






    There's a check upon ability activation to verify you can see your target (front facing).



    After that, your character will be tracking the target - jumping through you, bunny hopping, running in circles won't break the ability channeling. The only things that can break the channel after initial activation is:



    a) Use an ability that interrupts channeling (such as Force push, stuns, etc.)



    b) Break line of sight (360 degree) with the character, e.g. by running behind a wall or jumping down a pit.



    This applies both in PvP and PvE.

     I like that. It should mean skill choice > bunny hopping. Should mean you have to think a bit and be more reactive than just twich and mouse skills. Come on PvP update, I want to know more.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • whilanwhilan Everett, WAMember UncommonPosts: 3,472

    Originally posted by azrael466

    So there is auto-facing in pvp, but only after you start a cast.

    No. If your pointing this way

    >...X

    Start a cast and the person runs through you like this

    X

    >

    when you finish casting the set up looks like this

    X...>

    You can still hit them even if they appear behind you provided you started the cast before they went through you and they were in your cone or whatever radius at the start.

    That doesn't stop them from still being behind you and thus making you have to turn after the channel is complete. the comp doesn't turn your character at all during the cast it just makes it so they have to jump down a pit or something more then just run through you or jump up to break your line of site and thus your casting/channel/whatever

    It doesn't suddenly do this

    >...X

    Cast

    >X

    Player runs through you

    X

    ^

    This above part indicates hes inside you or jumping over you.

    X<

    Cast complete

    X...<

    You still have to turn yourself after the cast. It just keeps people from running through you to break casts.

    It's kinda of messy i know but there it is.  Hopefully we will get more info next week.

     

    Key:

    > equals your position

    ... equals distance

    X equals aggressive player character

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

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