My biggest issue with Rift, WoW, and all of the huther humdrum games of their ilk is that there is no purpose for a guild. To me, guilds are the backbone for any game. If there is a system in place that allows guilds to have goals to work toward, the game has a better community. Guilds that have no goals or limits, I'm looking at you 1k+ guilds, are just groups of strangers who get together to raid for new gear ad nauseum. And this is what Rift's system is. Levels really mean nothing but getting new perks that really don't matter
So far, the game that I think had the best guild system, albeit wasn't the best game, was Lineage 2. Levels allowed a new number of members to join, thus giving your clan an incentive to level. Clans could declare wars on other clans, join together in alliances to defend or assault castles, take over castles and raise taxes, and work on raising a dragon. Joining a clan was an important decision because if you were kicked out or left a clan, you couldn't join one for a set amount of real days (I can't remember what that number was). This meant that clans were filled with more people of a like mind and were more closely knit. This bacic premise of the guild, added with taking over territories or building cities/guild halls, would help build a community that isn't so set on the me me me of todays games, which would inadvertantly make the community much better and the game more enjoyable.
I found Rift's community to be an exact copy of WoW's, with the added bonus of everything always being compared to WoW. Hell, in Rift they talk about WoW more often than people in WoW talk about WoW. It's annoying and helped me decide to leave the game.
After logging untold hours in Rift the review score and analysis was spot on. {mod edit} Trion sadly enough is an exception and not the rule to how software companies should behave. Polish, quality and a large amount of care has been put into this title and the speed in which they have responded to problems has been amazing. The industry as a whole should be ashamed at their performance and quality and should look to Trion to understand a winning formula.
My biggest issue with Rift, WoW, and all of the huther humdrum games of their ilk is that there is no purpose for a guild. To me, guilds are the backbone for any game. If there is a system in place that allows guilds to have goals to work toward, the game has a better community. Guilds that have no goals or limits, I'm looking at you 1k+ guilds, are just groups of strangers who get together to raid for new gear ad nauseum. And this is what Rift's system is. Levels really mean nothing but getting new perks that really don't matter
So far, the game that I think had the best guild system, albeit wasn't the best game, was Lineage 2. Levels allowed a new number of members to join, thus giving your clan an incentive to level. Clans could declare wars on other clans, join together in alliances to defend or assault castles, take over castles and raise taxes, and work on raising a dragon. Joining a clan was an important decision because if you were kicked out or left a clan, you couldn't join one for a set amount of real days (I can't remember what that number was). This meant that clans were filled with more people of a like mind and were more closely knit. This bacic premise of the guild, added with taking over territories or building cities/guild halls, would help build a community that isn't so set on the me me me of todays games, which would inadvertantly make the community much better and the game more enjoyable.
I found Rift's community to be an exact copy of WoW's, with the added bonus of everything always being compared to WoW. Hell, in Rift they talk about WoW more often than people in WoW talk about WoW. It's annoying and helped me decide to leave the game.
Good points...I also played Lineage 2 and fully understand where your coming from.
However, what your asking for (make guilds meaningful) involves rolling back several game dynamics that have been considered new "standards" for MMO development.
Instances - I left L2 right before they introduced the instances they have....but what having a "instanceless" world meant was that you couldn't hide from people. Hunting grounds that gave the best XP & Loot was a premium, and the competition you had in a FFA environment meant you had to join a guild if you wanted access to those resources.
Because hunting grounds were constantly being fought over, guild members would get constant battle rally crys to drop what your doing to go fight for your guildies in an exciting open world battle.
These fights breed rivalries. Guilds find other Guilds they love to hate....and great competitions between guilds or alliances are born...which also improve guild cohesion.
Solo Friendly Content - With the "WOW-Boomers" emerging in the MMORPG market, we have a MUCH more casual playerbase than the days of traditional MMORPG gaming. As you will remember, you could level SOLO in Lineage 2, you did so to your detriment because it was so painstakingly slower than if you grouped. This brought people together out of necessity and guilds were formed.
The new "WOW-Boomers" are used to a casual MMO that is suited for very limited play windows. They expect to get a considerable amount of progress in game within a 30 - 60 minute window, and in intermitent intervals. They demand from the developers that they are able to solo their way to endgame content. With no driver to bring people together, you end up with a fractured community like you see in many of the new casual MMORPGs.
"That said, Rift is not without flaws. In a lot of aspects, its systems have become dated. Combat, questing, and crafting all function superbly, but are bland due to the simple fact that they have been done this way before."
8.7? Really? No offense, but shouldn't something that is pretty much a copy in almost every way have a little more of a hill to climb? That's like giving "Skyline" two thumbs up because it looked good, even though it was a regurgitated Independance Day / War of the Worlds / any other alien invasion movie...
My thought is that it doesn't matter if they rely upon a standard formula but whether or not they do it well.
If Rift was a person's first mmo then being a game that uses many of the same mechanics as games that went before it wouldn't be an issue.
That issue is more for people who are looking for something new.
So giving the game a worse score just because a contingent of players have done it before doesn't seem fair. One could say "worst case scenario" that Rift is not for players who are over this standard method of game play. In which case the game would have to stand on its own merits and be judged on what it's trying to do.
Personally I give the game an 8.0
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
My biggest issue with Rift, WoW, and all of the huther humdrum games of their ilk is that there is no purpose for a guild. To me, guilds are the backbone for any game. If there is a system in place that allows guilds to have goals to work toward, the game has a better community. Guilds that have no goals or limits, I'm looking at you 1k+ guilds, are just groups of strangers who get together to raid for new gear ad nauseum. And this is what Rift's system is. Levels really mean nothing but getting new perks that really don't matter
So far, the game that I think had the best guild system, albeit wasn't the best game, was Lineage 2. Levels allowed a new number of members to join, thus giving your clan an incentive to level. Clans could declare wars on other clans, join together in alliances to defend or assault castles, take over castles and raise taxes, and work on raising a dragon. Joining a clan was an important decision because if you were kicked out or left a clan, you couldn't join one for a set amount of real days (I can't remember what that number was). This meant that clans were filled with more people of a like mind and were more closely knit. This bacic premise of the guild, added with taking over territories or building cities/guild halls, would help build a community that isn't so set on the me me me of todays games, which would inadvertantly make the community much better and the game more enjoyable.
etc
Good points...I also played Lineage 2 and fully understand where your coming from.
However, what your asking for (make guilds meaningful) involves rolling back several game dynamics that have been considered new "standards" for MMO development.
Instances - I left L2 right before they introduced the instances they have....but what having a "instanceless" world meant was that you couldn't hide from people. Hunting grounds that gave the best XP & Loot was a premium, and the competition you had in a FFA environment meant you had to join a guild if you wanted access to those resources.
Because hunting grounds were constantly being fought over, guild members would get constant battle rally crys to drop what your doing to go fight for your guildies in an exciting open world battle.
These fights breed rivalries. Guilds find other Guilds they love to hate....and great competitions between guilds or alliances are born...which also improve guild cohesion.
Solo Friendly Content - With the "WOW-Boomers" emerging in the MMORPG market, we have a MUCH more casual playerbase than the days of traditional MMORPG gaming. As you will remember, you could level SOLO in Lineage 2, you did so to your detriment because it was so painstakingly slower than if you grouped. This brought people together out of necessity and guilds were formed.
The new "WOW-Boomers" are used to a casual MMO that is suited for very limited play windows. They expect to get a considerable amount of progress in game within a 30 - 60 minute window, and in intermitent intervals. They demand from the developers that they are able to solo their way to endgame content. With no driver to bring people together, you end up with a fractured community like you see in many of the new casual MMORPGs.
I also played lineage 2 and those are good points. However Lineage 2 was trying to do something completely different than Rift.
Lineage 2 is more of a (for lack of a better term) social sandbox game. The game was completely about player interactions.Whether it be guildmates, warring another, sieges, trying to win dusk/dawn, pker's, griefers, working the economy, etc.
Rift is a themepark game. You pay your ticket and ride the rides.
One can't compare them except to other games that are aiming for the same goals.
Some peopel would have hated the Lineage 2 system. Some people love just logging in and doing what's available (ride the rides).
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
My biggest issue with Rift, WoW, and all of the huther humdrum games of their ilk is that there is no purpose for a guild. To me, guilds are the backbone for any game. If there is a system in place that allows guilds to have goals to work toward, the game has a better community. Guilds that have no goals or limits, I'm looking at you 1k+ guilds, are just groups of strangers who get together to raid for new gear ad nauseum. And this is what Rift's system is. Levels really mean nothing but getting new perks that really don't matter
So far, the game that I think had the best guild system, albeit wasn't the best game, was Lineage 2. Levels allowed a new number of members to join, thus giving your clan an incentive to level. Clans could declare wars on other clans, join together in alliances to defend or assault castles, take over castles and raise taxes, and work on raising a dragon. Joining a clan was an important decision because if you were kicked out or left a clan, you couldn't join one for a set amount of real days (I can't remember what that number was). This meant that clans were filled with more people of a like mind and were more closely knit. This bacic premise of the guild, added with taking over territories or building cities/guild halls, would help build a community that isn't so set on the me me me of todays games, which would inadvertantly make the community much better and the game more enjoyable.
etc
Good points...I also played Lineage 2 and fully understand where your coming from.
However, what your asking for (make guilds meaningful) involves rolling back several game dynamics that have been considered new "standards" for MMO development.
Instances - I left L2 right before they introduced the instances they have....but what having a "instanceless" world meant was that you couldn't hide from people. Hunting grounds that gave the best XP & Loot was a premium, and the competition you had in a FFA environment meant you had to join a guild if you wanted access to those resources.
Because hunting grounds were constantly being fought over, guild members would get constant battle rally crys to drop what your doing to go fight for your guildies in an exciting open world battle.
These fights breed rivalries. Guilds find other Guilds they love to hate....and great competitions between guilds or alliances are born...which also improve guild cohesion.
Solo Friendly Content - With the "WOW-Boomers" emerging in the MMORPG market, we have a MUCH more casual playerbase than the days of traditional MMORPG gaming. As you will remember, you could level SOLO in Lineage 2, you did so to your detriment because it was so painstakingly slower than if you grouped. This brought people together out of necessity and guilds were formed.
The new "WOW-Boomers" are used to a casual MMO that is suited for very limited play windows. They expect to get a considerable amount of progress in game within a 30 - 60 minute window, and in intermitent intervals. They demand from the developers that they are able to solo their way to endgame content. With no driver to bring people together, you end up with a fractured community like you see in many of the new casual MMORPGs.
I also played lineage 2 and those are good points. However Lineage 2 was trying to do something completely different than Rift.
Lineage 2 is more of a (for lack of a better term) social sandbox game. The game was completely about player interactions.Whether it be guildmates, warring another, sieges, trying to win dusk/dawn, pker's, griefers, working the economy, etc.
Rift is a themepark game. You pay your ticket and ride the rides.
One can't compare them except to other games that are aiming for the same goals.
Some peopel would have hated the Lineage 2 system. Some people love just logging in and doing what's available (ride the rides).
Without a doubt Lineage 2 & Rift (and other theme parks) are two different games. To the point letum was making about guilds; I was just pointing out some of the differences between these two games that have an effect on the overall community.
As for Lineage 2, for all the things they did wrong (and boy, did they screw up on many levels).....they did a great job at mixing sandbox with linear play. The leveling process was about as linear as it can get....but the environment was wide open and allowed for players to generate dynamic content using the sandbox tools available to them (non instanced premium hunting grounds, castle siege system, FFA combat system)
The cons LARGERLY outweight the good and it gets an 8.7. I dont get it. Yes the game is polished, yes the graphics and sound are nice, the soul thing is different, rift are okay, but the game is way too similar to WOW and for that is not worth that score. Bottom line the game is just boring for anyone who played WOW for years.
This comment is really on the mark if you ask me. The reviewer stated that he did not get to play Whitefall Steppes, suggesting he did not even make it to level 40. Reviewing a game that is intended to last months and years on the levelling content is bad form and simply pathetic. The reviewer needs to get to 50 and experience the hollow end-game content to actually be able to make a sound judgment.
I would just like to remind everyne that there is a thread for suggestions for our review policy located over in the Site Suggestions forum. That is the proper place for discussion related to our overall review process.
Please remain on the topic of this review or Rift itself in this thread.
Once again mmorpg.com does it. Review a game based on short term enjoyment, like a single player game, rather than long term. MMORPGs are not single player games and they come with more fees, i.e. the subscription fee, and as such should be reviewed on the basis if the game is worth the subscription fee on top of the one time cost.
"I am having fun right now." is simply not enough. The question to be asked is:
"Will I have fun 3-4 months down the road so to warrant the monthly subscription fee?"
And for me the answer is simply no. Even casuals will cap this game in one or two months and then have to make due with the end game content which for sure wont last more than a month at most.
More over, the reviewer admits that he hasnt even got close to the end game so in fact this "review" is a preview/first impression article. It is like watching the first hour of a movie and write a review on that.
This comment is really on the mark if you ask me. The reviewer stated that he did not get to play Whitefall Steppes, suggesting he did not even make it to level 40. Reviewing a game that is intended to last months and years on the levelling content is bad form and simply pathetic. The reviewer needs to get to 50 and experience the hollow end-game content to actually be able to make a sound judgment. (sorry double post, quote didn't go through)
Once again mmorpg.com does it. Review a game based on short term enjoyment, like a single player game, rather than long term. MMORPGs are not single player games and they come with more fees, i.e. the subscription fee, and as such should be reviewed on the basis if the game is worth the subscription fee on top of the one time cost.
"I am having fun right now." is simply not enough. The question to be asked is:
"Will I have fun 3-4 months down the road so to warrant the monthly subscription fee?"
And for me the answer is simply no. Even casuals will cap this game in one or two months and then have to make due with the end game content which for sure wont last more than a month at most.
For you perhaps, the reviewers have a different opinion. The subscribers in the end may get in line with either your opinion or the reviewerers opinion. April 4th is just 3 days away and we'll see (or won't I suppose) the retention rate of the game after the first month.
Yamota makes good points though. The end game is what is really important in most MMO's, how can you review a game if you haven't even experienced it? It's biased.
Once again mmorpg.com does it. Review a game based on short term enjoyment, like a single player game, rather than long term. MMORPGs are not single player games and they come with more fees, i.e. the subscription fee, and as such should be reviewed on the basis if the game is worth the subscription fee on top of the one time cost.
"I am having fun right now." is simply not enough. The question to be asked is:
"Will I have fun 3-4 months down the road so to warrant the monthly subscription fee?"
And for me the answer is simply no. Even casuals will cap this game in one or two months and then have to make due with the end game content which for sure wont last more than a month at most.
More over, the reviewer admits that he hasnt even got close to the end game so in fact this "review" is a preview/first impression article. It is like watching the first hour of a movie and write a review on that.
This comment is really on the mark if you ask me. The reviewer stated that he did not get to play Whitefall Steppes, suggesting he did not even make it to level 40. Reviewing a game that is intended to last months and years on the levelling content is bad form and simply pathetic. The reviewer needs to get to 50 and experience the hollow end-game content to actually be able to make a sound judgment. (sorry double post, quote didn't go through)
This website hasn't been good for reviews in a long time. I wouldn't trust what they say myself. Anyone that gives a game like Rift and DCUO an 8 or higher has lost all integrity.
Even with the number of haters that probably rated the game a 1 (vs the fanboys who went straight 10s), and people like me who rated it a 4.8, the average rating on this site for both User Ratings and Staff Ratings are both 8.7.
The only thing I find odd is both are 8.7 lol.
I just think, and I know I say this a lot, originality or lack thereof should matter so much more than it does.
What if I told you 6.5 years ago, at WoW's release that games would be the same now? Or how about I say that now--"In October 2017, MMOs will be the same as now, just prettier."? When games get reviewed like that, that's where I'm afraid the industry is heading.
What if Titan is just... rofl.. a wow clone?
Dude, seriously I was just about to type that, I went to make sure there wasn't some sort of originality rating on the ratings page. I really think there needs to be some sort of rating selection for originality of content, gameplay, or something.
One thing that might be something to look into, MMORPG, would be maybe a separate rating system for innovation/originality. It would allow the games individual rating for preformance, graphics, and such to remain the same and have a score that reflects it as an island by itself without taking into consideration if the mechanics or anything are just like somthing else. Then at the same time an originality rating system would help show the games merit as a newcomer into whichever genre it's coming into. I think that would be a fair rating system. You could put lots into that category, improvment of graphics in comparison to other games, combat mechanics (just the same ol' stuff or something different), innovative gameplay, character customization (maybe?), rifts would definitely fall into some sort of progression. I dunno just spit balling here. I think it would be a huge success for all those veterans who see games like this as deserving less than what they've been given.
It's a good thing you guys don't review cars:
Can you believe what Ford did? Put 4 tires on a car...again. And OMG, they are still using doors and steering wheels.
Or houses:
Wow, a roof again? They've been using roofs for thousands of years now. How unoriginal.
Or shirts:
OMG, only two sleeves again...I just bought a shirt with two sleeves like last year.
Originality is in the STORY! It's in the RIFTS! Basic mechanics are just that. Basic. Mechanics. Its what you use because it works. If I were to sell you a pair of running shoes made of thumbtacks, would you buy them because its original and new? No, you would buy the same running shoes they have made for years now, with slight internal upgrades, but in the end it still has laces and a soles.
Too many of these commentors are thinking about the wrong apsects of the game. The basic mechanics of an mmo can change slightly, but they will still be present in all mmo's.
I also played lineage 2 and those are good points. However Lineage 2 was trying to do something completely different than Rift.
Lineage 2 is more of a (for lack of a better term) social sandbox game. The game was completely about player interactions.Whether it be guildmates, warring another, sieges, trying to win dusk/dawn, pker's, griefers, working the economy, etc.
Rift is a themepark game. You pay your ticket and ride the rides.
One can't compare them except to other games that are aiming for the same goals.
Some peopel would have hated the Lineage 2 system. Some people love just logging in and doing what's available (ride the rides).
Without a doubt Lineage 2 & Rift (and other theme parks) are two different games. To the point letum was making about guilds; I was just pointing out some of the differences between these two games that have an effect on the overall community.
As for Lineage 2, for all the things they did wrong (and boy, did they screw up on many levels).....they did a great job at mixing sandbox with linear play. The leveling process was about as linear as it can get....but the environment was wide open and allowed for players to generate dynamic content using the sandbox tools available to them (non instanced premium hunting grounds, castle siege system, FFA combat system)
Oh, I completely agreed with you. I was just adding my 2 cents.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I would probably rate the game a tad lower, 8.0. However, that is still high marks for me. So many games have come out in unplayable states here lately. A company finally launches a VERY stable game with beautiful graphics, decent lore, and small innovations. The innovations may not be earth shattering, but they have made updates. Flexible soul trees, rifts, and even coin lock aren't found in any other game. Trion should be hugely applauded for their work and communication, especially during the hacking situation. Some people should read the article from the ethical hacker that found the issue and worked with Trion to fix it. They responded instantly, verified his findings, called him personally on the phone and resolved the situation. They were completely open about these findings. That is rare, and shows their devotion. Instead of tons of praise, the comments here are mostly negative.
I would probably rate the game a tad lower, 8.0. However, that is still high marks for me. So many games have come out in unplayable states here lately. A company finally launches a VERY stable game with beautiful graphics, decent lore, and small innovations. The innovations may not be earth shattering, but they have made updates. Flexible soul trees, rifts, and even coin lock aren't found in any other game. Trion should be hugely applauded for their work and communication, especially during the hacking situation. Some people should read the article from the ethical hacker that found the issue and worked with Trion to fix it. They responded instantly, verified his findings, called him personally on the phone and resolved the situation. They were completely open about these findings. That is rare, and shows their devotion. Instead of tons of praise, the comments here are mostly negative.
I would agree with this. trion did a wonderful job of delivering a finished polished product.
With that said I will probably not be renewing my subscription this month. And I feel bad about that. Trion did such a good job of delivering an actual finished playable content rich product of exactly the type we have been begging for here for years. They did everything right and deserve to be hailed for it.
BUT
God help me for saying this, it really is more of exactly the same thing we have been doing for years and years and years. Take every one of these games you have been playing for the past 12 years. Take them all. Put them in a blender and hit puree'. You got's your elves your dwarves your dragons your paladins your angels your mysterious demonic things from beyond. Your classes your crafting, even the UI. It is extremely well polished stuff that we have done a million times before. It's fun. If I was a newcommer to MMO's this game would be pure crack. As a veteran it is very very good. Just not enough to overcome that sense of "been there done that, now why am I doing it all over again exactly?" for me.
"That said, Rift is not without flaws. In a lot of aspects, its systems have become dated. Combat, questing, and crafting all function superbly, but are bland due to the simple fact that they have been done this way before."
8.7? Really? No offense, but shouldn't something that is pretty much a copy in almost every way have a little more of a hill to climb? That's like giving "Skyline" two thumbs up because it looked good, even though it was a regurgitated Independance Day / War of the Worlds / any other alien invasion movie...
First comment was exactly what I was thinking! Mind you, ever since MMORPG did a piece where all 6 or so staff reviewers thought DCUO was the greatest thing since sliced bread they've lacked anything in the way of credibility for me.
I would probably rate the game a tad lower, 8.0. However, that is still high marks for me. So many games have come out in unplayable states here lately. A company finally launches a VERY stable game with beautiful graphics, decent lore, and small innovations. The innovations may not be earth shattering, but they have made updates. Flexible soul trees, rifts, and even coin lock aren't found in any other game. Trion should be hugely applauded for their work and communication, especially during the hacking situation. Some people should read the article from the ethical hacker that found the issue and worked with Trion to fix it. They responded instantly, verified his findings, called him personally on the phone and resolved the situation. They were completely open about these findings. That is rare, and shows their devotion. Instead of tons of praise, the comments here are mostly negative.
I would agree with this. trion did a wonderful job of delivering a finished polished product.
With that said I will probably not be renewing my subscription this month. And I feel bad about that. Trion did such a good job of delivering an actual finished playable content rich product of exactly the type we have been begging for here for years. They did everything right and deserve to be hailed for it.
BUT
God help me for saying this, it really is more of exactly the same thing we have been doing for years and years and years. Take every one of these games you have been playing for the past 12 years. Take them all. Put them in a blender and hit puree'. You got's your elves your dwarves your dragons your paladins your angels your mysterious demonic things from beyond. Your classes your crafting, even the UI. It is extremely well polished stuff that we have done a million times before. It's fun. If I was a newcommer to MMO's this game would be pure crack. As a veteran it is very very good. Just not enough to overcome that sense of "been there done that, now why am I doing it all over again exactly?" for me.
I'll agree with you on most points, but wanted to add that the eventual reality that you state after "BUT" is a direct result of the types of game MMORPGs have become about.
The focus of MMORPGs is no longer about virtual worlds where players create dynamic endgame content using sandbox tools. The focus of MMORPGs has become much about the actualy game play...the levels, the gear, the way your toon looks when you swing a sword, the scripted dungeon & quest content. You can only do those things so many times before you get board.
In a sandbox MMO, where players generate the majority of the content.....the objective is not to grind reputation or gear ad nausium....the objective is to interact with different people (be it cooperatively or competitively). If this is the focus, then the game "ages" alot slower. People have more stuff to do and get board a lot slower than if they are forced down the same narrow leveling path every time they log in.
My biggest issue with Rift, WoW, and all of the huther humdrum games of their ilk is that there is no purpose for a guild. To me, guilds are the backbone for any game. If there is a system in place that allows guilds to have goals to work toward, the game has a better community. Guilds that have no goals or limits, I'm looking at you 1k+ guilds, are just groups of strangers who get together to raid for new gear ad nauseum. And this is what Rift's system is. Levels really mean nothing but getting new perks that really don't matter
So far, the game that I think had the best guild system, albeit wasn't the best game, was Lineage 2. Levels allowed a new number of members to join, thus giving your clan an incentive to level. Clans could declare wars on other clans, join together in alliances to defend or assault castles, take over castles and raise taxes, and work on raising a dragon. Joining a clan was an important decision because if you were kicked out or left a clan, you couldn't join one for a set amount of real days (I can't remember what that number was). This meant that clans were filled with more people of a like mind and were more closely knit. This bacic premise of the guild, added with taking over territories or building cities/guild halls, would help build a community that isn't so set on the me me me of todays games, which would inadvertantly make the community much better and the game more enjoyable.
etc
Good points...I also played Lineage 2 and fully understand where your coming from.
However, what your asking for (make guilds meaningful) involves rolling back several game dynamics that have been considered new "standards" for MMO development.
Instances - I left L2 right before they introduced the instances they have....but what having a "instanceless" world meant was that you couldn't hide from people. Hunting grounds that gave the best XP & Loot was a premium, and the competition you had in a FFA environment meant you had to join a guild if you wanted access to those resources.
Because hunting grounds were constantly being fought over, guild members would get constant battle rally crys to drop what your doing to go fight for your guildies in an exciting open world battle.
These fights breed rivalries. Guilds find other Guilds they love to hate....and great competitions between guilds or alliances are born...which also improve guild cohesion.
Solo Friendly Content - With the "WOW-Boomers" emerging in the MMORPG market, we have a MUCH more casual playerbase than the days of traditional MMORPG gaming. As you will remember, you could level SOLO in Lineage 2, you did so to your detriment because it was so painstakingly slower than if you grouped. This brought people together out of necessity and guilds were formed.
The new "WOW-Boomers" are used to a casual MMO that is suited for very limited play windows. They expect to get a considerable amount of progress in game within a 30 - 60 minute window, and in intermitent intervals. They demand from the developers that they are able to solo their way to endgame content. With no driver to bring people together, you end up with a fractured community like you see in many of the new casual MMORPGs.
I also played lineage 2 and those are good points. However Lineage 2 was trying to do something completely different than Rift.
Lineage 2 is more of a (for lack of a better term) social sandbox game. The game was completely about player interactions.Whether it be guildmates, warring another, sieges, trying to win dusk/dawn, pker's, griefers, working the economy, etc.
Rift is a themepark game. You pay your ticket and ride the rides.
One can't compare them except to other games that are aiming for the same goals.
Some peopel would have hated the Lineage 2 system. Some people love just logging in and doing what's available (ride the rides).
Without a doubt Lineage 2 & Rift (and other theme parks) are two different games. To the point letum was making about guilds; I was just pointing out some of the differences between these two games that have an effect on the overall community.
As for Lineage 2, for all the things they did wrong (and boy, did they screw up on many levels).....they did a great job at mixing sandbox with linear play. The leveling process was about as linear as it can get....but the environment was wide open and allowed for players to generate dynamic content using the sandbox tools available to them (non instanced premium hunting grounds, castle siege system, FFA combat system)
I agree with what you say about them being different games and just about everything you said. I only use L2 as an example because it's the only game I've played with a halfway decent guild concept. Every other game I've played seems to have tacked on guilds. Games like Rift are designed for soloer's and instances, but this doesn't mean they can't have a robust sytstem. An imaginative designer can add in a great guild system into any type of game. A blend of instanced dungeons and open world dungeons could be blended nicely.
Very accurate review rating. I know that haters don't like to see it because it defuses their petty arguements about the game which are getting squashed every day
Comments
My biggest issue with Rift, WoW, and all of the huther humdrum games of their ilk is that there is no purpose for a guild. To me, guilds are the backbone for any game. If there is a system in place that allows guilds to have goals to work toward, the game has a better community. Guilds that have no goals or limits, I'm looking at you 1k+ guilds, are just groups of strangers who get together to raid for new gear ad nauseum. And this is what Rift's system is. Levels really mean nothing but getting new perks that really don't matter
So far, the game that I think had the best guild system, albeit wasn't the best game, was Lineage 2. Levels allowed a new number of members to join, thus giving your clan an incentive to level. Clans could declare wars on other clans, join together in alliances to defend or assault castles, take over castles and raise taxes, and work on raising a dragon. Joining a clan was an important decision because if you were kicked out or left a clan, you couldn't join one for a set amount of real days (I can't remember what that number was). This meant that clans were filled with more people of a like mind and were more closely knit. This bacic premise of the guild, added with taking over territories or building cities/guild halls, would help build a community that isn't so set on the me me me of todays games, which would inadvertantly make the community much better and the game more enjoyable.
I found Rift's community to be an exact copy of WoW's, with the added bonus of everything always being compared to WoW. Hell, in Rift they talk about WoW more often than people in WoW talk about WoW. It's annoying and helped me decide to leave the game.
After logging untold hours in Rift the review score and analysis was spot on. {mod edit} Trion sadly enough is an exception and not the rule to how software companies should behave. Polish, quality and a large amount of care has been put into this title and the speed in which they have responded to problems has been amazing. The industry as a whole should be ashamed at their performance and quality and should look to Trion to understand a winning formula.
Life IS Feudal
I would argue that thousands of players who have played the game have rated Rift an average of 8.64 so it's not far fetched.
Good points...I also played Lineage 2 and fully understand where your coming from.
However, what your asking for (make guilds meaningful) involves rolling back several game dynamics that have been considered new "standards" for MMO development.
Instances - I left L2 right before they introduced the instances they have....but what having a "instanceless" world meant was that you couldn't hide from people. Hunting grounds that gave the best XP & Loot was a premium, and the competition you had in a FFA environment meant you had to join a guild if you wanted access to those resources.
Because hunting grounds were constantly being fought over, guild members would get constant battle rally crys to drop what your doing to go fight for your guildies in an exciting open world battle.
These fights breed rivalries. Guilds find other Guilds they love to hate....and great competitions between guilds or alliances are born...which also improve guild cohesion.
Solo Friendly Content - With the "WOW-Boomers" emerging in the MMORPG market, we have a MUCH more casual playerbase than the days of traditional MMORPG gaming. As you will remember, you could level SOLO in Lineage 2, you did so to your detriment because it was so painstakingly slower than if you grouped. This brought people together out of necessity and guilds were formed.
The new "WOW-Boomers" are used to a casual MMO that is suited for very limited play windows. They expect to get a considerable amount of progress in game within a 30 - 60 minute window, and in intermitent intervals. They demand from the developers that they are able to solo their way to endgame content. With no driver to bring people together, you end up with a fractured community like you see in many of the new casual MMORPGs.
My thought is that it doesn't matter if they rely upon a standard formula but whether or not they do it well.
If Rift was a person's first mmo then being a game that uses many of the same mechanics as games that went before it wouldn't be an issue.
That issue is more for people who are looking for something new.
So giving the game a worse score just because a contingent of players have done it before doesn't seem fair. One could say "worst case scenario" that Rift is not for players who are over this standard method of game play. In which case the game would have to stand on its own merits and be judged on what it's trying to do.
Personally I give the game an 8.0
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I also played lineage 2 and those are good points. However Lineage 2 was trying to do something completely different than Rift.
Lineage 2 is more of a (for lack of a better term) social sandbox game. The game was completely about player interactions.Whether it be guildmates, warring another, sieges, trying to win dusk/dawn, pker's, griefers, working the economy, etc.
Rift is a themepark game. You pay your ticket and ride the rides.
One can't compare them except to other games that are aiming for the same goals.
Some peopel would have hated the Lineage 2 system. Some people love just logging in and doing what's available (ride the rides).
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Without a doubt Lineage 2 & Rift (and other theme parks) are two different games. To the point letum was making about guilds; I was just pointing out some of the differences between these two games that have an effect on the overall community.
As for Lineage 2, for all the things they did wrong (and boy, did they screw up on many levels).....they did a great job at mixing sandbox with linear play. The leveling process was about as linear as it can get....but the environment was wide open and allowed for players to generate dynamic content using the sandbox tools available to them (non instanced premium hunting grounds, castle siege system, FFA combat system)
The cons LARGERLY outweight the good and it gets an 8.7. I dont get it. Yes the game is polished, yes the graphics and sound are nice, the soul thing is different, rift are okay, but the game is way too similar to WOW and for that is not worth that score. Bottom line the game is just boring for anyone who played WOW for years.
This comment is really on the mark if you ask me. The reviewer stated that he did not get to play Whitefall Steppes, suggesting he did not even make it to level 40. Reviewing a game that is intended to last months and years on the levelling content is bad form and simply pathetic. The reviewer needs to get to 50 and experience the hollow end-game content to actually be able to make a sound judgment.
I would just like to remind everyne that there is a thread for suggestions for our review policy located over in the Site Suggestions forum. That is the proper place for discussion related to our overall review process.
Please remain on the topic of this review or Rift itself in this thread.
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This comment is really on the mark if you ask me. The reviewer stated that he did not get to play Whitefall Steppes, suggesting he did not even make it to level 40. Reviewing a game that is intended to last months and years on the levelling content is bad form and simply pathetic. The reviewer needs to get to 50 and experience the hollow end-game content to actually be able to make a sound judgment. (sorry double post, quote didn't go through)
Yamota makes good points though. The end game is what is really important in most MMO's, how can you review a game if you haven't even experienced it? It's biased.
This website hasn't been good for reviews in a long time. I wouldn't trust what they say myself. Anyone that gives a game like Rift and DCUO an 8 or higher has lost all integrity.
It's a good thing you guys don't review cars:
Can you believe what Ford did? Put 4 tires on a car...again. And OMG, they are still using doors and steering wheels.
Or houses:
Wow, a roof again? They've been using roofs for thousands of years now. How unoriginal.
Or shirts:
OMG, only two sleeves again...I just bought a shirt with two sleeves like last year.
Originality is in the STORY! It's in the RIFTS! Basic mechanics are just that. Basic. Mechanics. Its what you use because it works. If I were to sell you a pair of running shoes made of thumbtacks, would you buy them because its original and new? No, you would buy the same running shoes they have made for years now, with slight internal upgrades, but in the end it still has laces and a soles.
Too many of these commentors are thinking about the wrong apsects of the game. The basic mechanics of an mmo can change slightly, but they will still be present in all mmo's.
That's not an opinion, that's an assumption.
You know what they say about " assumptions".
Besides...many other games have paid adds here too and most have received poor reviews anyways.
What about the thousands of players that have rated Rift an average of 8.64? Are they paid for too?
Solid review, fair score.
Most of these comments actually prove one thing:
People have no idea what they want anymore. They'll bitch about something regardless.
Oh, I completely agreed with you. I was just adding my 2 cents.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I would agree with this. trion did a wonderful job of delivering a finished polished product.
With that said I will probably not be renewing my subscription this month. And I feel bad about that. Trion did such a good job of delivering an actual finished playable content rich product of exactly the type we have been begging for here for years. They did everything right and deserve to be hailed for it.
BUT
God help me for saying this, it really is more of exactly the same thing we have been doing for years and years and years. Take every one of these games you have been playing for the past 12 years. Take them all. Put them in a blender and hit puree'. You got's your elves your dwarves your dragons your paladins your angels your mysterious demonic things from beyond. Your classes your crafting, even the UI. It is extremely well polished stuff that we have done a million times before. It's fun. If I was a newcommer to MMO's this game would be pure crack. As a veteran it is very very good. Just not enough to overcome that sense of "been there done that, now why am I doing it all over again exactly?" for me.
First comment was exactly what I was thinking! Mind you, ever since MMORPG did a piece where all 6 or so staff reviewers thought DCUO was the greatest thing since sliced bread they've lacked anything in the way of credibility for me.
I'll agree with you on most points, but wanted to add that the eventual reality that you state after "BUT" is a direct result of the types of game MMORPGs have become about.
The focus of MMORPGs is no longer about virtual worlds where players create dynamic endgame content using sandbox tools. The focus of MMORPGs has become much about the actualy game play...the levels, the gear, the way your toon looks when you swing a sword, the scripted dungeon & quest content. You can only do those things so many times before you get board.
In a sandbox MMO, where players generate the majority of the content.....the objective is not to grind reputation or gear ad nausium....the objective is to interact with different people (be it cooperatively or competitively). If this is the focus, then the game "ages" alot slower. People have more stuff to do and get board a lot slower than if they are forced down the same narrow leveling path every time they log in.
8.7 is so over-rated ....... i rather buy ps3 games monthly rather than playing rift.
Which FF Character Are You?
I agree with what you say about them being different games and just about everything you said. I only use L2 as an example because it's the only game I've played with a halfway decent guild concept. Every other game I've played seems to have tacked on guilds. Games like Rift are designed for soloer's and instances, but this doesn't mean they can't have a robust sytstem. An imaginative designer can add in a great guild system into any type of game. A blend of instanced dungeons and open world dungeons could be blended nicely.
Very accurate review rating. I know that haters don't like to see it because it defuses their petty arguements about the game which are getting squashed every day