I saw the same sort of thing the other day on my server except it was a different twist.
This dude was trying to claim that some cleric ninja'ed his friends equipment by rolling need on a caster staff.
His logic was:
- his friend, cleric 1, went into the instance as healing spec
- other guys, cleric 2, went in as DPS
- Therefore cleric 2 can't roll on caster stuff even if he has casting cleric rolls and even though other types of clerics use the same stats. Or if you are using a one hander and shield you can't roll on two hander casting staves.
He complained over and over in the chat channel and called everyone who laughed at him a faggot.
Did the majority of the server thinkn this way? I doubt it. The dude was some 13 yer old piece of crap who was pissed he couldn't politic someone out of an item.
Many 13-18 year olds are like this, semi-sociopathic and completely consumed by whatever clique they are in. They will rationalize and justify anything they can to satisfy their selfish whims and ruthlessly punish those who do not belong. And no amount of anything can pierce theyir self-absorved armor. The only thing that ever does is the inevitables failures and consequences of real life.
i too have starting to see this lately. it seems that whenever a new mmorpg comes out, by default the majority of people you will see would have came from wow- which means the majority of the population of any new mmo will be the utter filth that you just described. hopefully the new age mmorpgs that are coming up soon will try to target a different population other than ex-wow players and only then will you have a semi-decent community.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
This thread convinced me that from now on if I'm playing a great game (including if that is the case with GW2 and TSW)....I'm going to start saying the games suck and are horrible and just totally talking them down. Maybe this way I won't add to the attraction for ex-CommunitySucksAss players. I for one, don't WANT to have to play with those douchebags in every game that comes out from now on. I hope they fall in love with their game all over again and never want to play ANY game I like.
Asshats will always be asshats.
I do like that ArenaNet is very anti-griefing and has tried to "grief proof" GW2. We'll see how well that works. Maybe it will make the game not fun for the assholes. I'm hoping.
It really sucks when there is "no room" for speccing the way you want and exploring. But come on, lighten up, thats a few players out of quite a few thousands? No need to panic just yet.
I think part of the problem lies in deep endgame design. IMO, the very toughest content in any game should be fairly easy for totally optimized builds. In other words, the content should only be challenging for those under to modestly geared (or skilled, depending on the game). The best players in the game, armed with the best gear, should steamroll over the hardest content. This way, elitist players wouldn't be bitching at others for not having a 'perfect' build.
When someone is bad..or not satisfactory in the eyes of some when it comes to raid or grouping..why just kick them out and scream "you suxs". What happen to helping someone ..advising them how to setup one of their specs..(even if they don't follow your advice)..or just giving them a bit of wisdom from your own experience? That's part of what a "community" is after all. Instead it's just intolerance and references to some website with spec builds...which will likely leave you with a keylogger these days.
Another player and I closed a rift the other night..i commented how I died on the boss a few times before he/she showed up to help. Did he call me a loser....?...no..He ended giving me some game tips...told me about the puzzles per zone (which I was clueless because I never read up completely on any mmo i play because I like surprises once in a while..even if I learn them from a fellow traveller ..in game))..and crafted and mailed me 2 rings that boosted my stats. cool beans.
That isn't just a WoW thing. There was a lot of banter-- some helpful and some just mean-- about the right gear and AAs (alternate advancement abilities) in EQ1 before WoW was even released. (And I am pretty sure you can find guilds even in WoW that aren't going to verbally roll you because of your spec.)
I am sorry to hear that Rift is turning out that way. I played in beta and found it to be a very mixed experience, as far as the community. I loved the game itself and plan to pick it up for the summer. Maybe I'll be able to get some intel on which servers are the most laid back and friendliest at that point.
On a tangent here, regarding the community, there did seem, in the later stage of beta, a real expectation that everyone had played WoW before. It was a bit of a bummer, since I've only ever played WoW on a very limited basis, so I had no idea what they were talking about when they were trying to impress each other with their prowess in that game, or were comparing things in WoW to things in Rift. The upshot for me, of course, is that I am not so burned out on WoW that I notice or even care if it is or isn't a "WoW clone".
God some of you fanbois drive me nuts. I enjoy RIFT, quite a lot actually! But I'm not so blindly loyal to any game or thing to completely disregard the obvious. To those that keep saying IT'S NOTHING LIKE WOW!!!!!! Whatever, there are a TON of things almost identical, and it IS basically a clone with a few added features. And it goes way beyond just the "all mmo's have these features it's copying from all games!" Ok, cool story, it's still MOST similar to Wow and War by a LONG shot. For me though I don't care because I'm having a lot of fun.
Bottom line - have fun with the game, take pride in the fact that you love a clone (it's ok, it's a REALLY high quality game regardless) and stop denying the obvious.
Was in one of the expert dungeons today and watched this guild telling a bard how to spec. "You need to spec 51 bard"
The guy wasn't doing that bad really, he was for the most part helping the healer to keep everyone alive. We did have a wipe or 2. The thing that pisses me off about it is there was only one rogue, and a guy in the other guild rolled need on the bow.
Then when the rogue asked them why they needed it. They told the rogue he was being carried and didn't deserve the bow to begin with.
Next thing you know it is being sold in trade chat. As if this guy didn't put in as much work as everyone else, so ninja his bow and sell it and split the plat with the guildies that went on the run.
Game is the spitting image of wow, I can't even wait until something else comes out. Half of the classes are not even viable if you don't spec the way everyone else is speccing. It's just bullcrap, the devs should have known this would happen rather than waste their time to make all these different combos that nobody will play because they wont be able to participate in a run without having to hear the kids flaming them the whole time.
The classes can be specced across a broad range, you were just in a group composed mostly of a**holes. The game is not to blame for a**holes.
I have no problems at all with anyone "telling" me how to play my character in an MMO...as long as they are paying my monthly sub fee, bought me the game, pay for the electricity I use to power my pc, my ISP bill...
Well I'm lvl 47 now with my rogue, and have played through every dungeon I've hit a high enough level for, I believe. I have never experienced anything remotely like what the OP described. In fact, when I've been in groups and specifically asked the group leader or group in general what spec they want me to play as, I get either no answer at all or "play what you want ". And all the dungeon attempts have been fun and smooth. I could play a 3-soul hybrid spec with points spread equally between 3 souls and no one would have cared.
Gameplay wise, my experience has been that Rift is very similar to WoW. Community wise, it has been NOTHING like WoW. Maybe the difference is I used to play on a PvP server in WoW and now I play on a PvE server in Rift.
Just my input on the whole telling people how to play / spec thing:
Some people seem to be way too easily offended by this... though depending on how youre told youre doing it wrong, i guess its understandable.
Now me, i dont pretend to be a nice & cheery person, and i get on peoples cases about doing things wrong, especially within my own guilds. Its not meant as a slight to other people, but as a way to make the group/guild as a whole better & more efficient.
A lot of you dont seem to understand just how utterly terrible people are at doing & understanding things, especially in MMOs. Sometimes there are those who understand thing better & more quickly, and they tend to get frustrated by the 1st group so they may say things that seem dickish out of frustration.
Just as an example:
In WAR, i am constantly watching my entire party/warband sit there beating on a well geared tank who has 3-5 healers standing 30 feet behind him keeping him alive. They will sit there lieterally for 5 minutes trying to kill the guy, and he is STILL at full health. They dont get the hint that someone else is keeping him alive, and continuing to attack him is a waste of time until you kill those healers. I see it several times a day every day, and not just in WAR but in pretty much every MMO ive ever played.
When i start yelling at people to get the hell off the tank and kill the healers, sometimes people get their panties all up in a twist over "telling them how to play". Am i in the wrong for using some common freaking sense and telling them a much much better way to get something done instead of continuing to lose fights over and over again?
I also ran into a guy the other day who was playing a Disciple of Khaine, which is a melee based healer that relies on regular heals + lifetaps for surviving. Went into an SC with this guy, and he was not only not healing others (which is fairly common for DoKs) but not even healing himself AT ALL. Seriously, 0 points in heals on the scoreboard. By playing that way, he was only feeding the enemy free points while doing absolutely nothing useful. I gave him shit about not even healing himself. I didnt give a shit if he healed me, but iw as like come on youre fucking useless right now, youre not even attempting to throw a single heal on yourself. I played with this guy again yesterday, and watched him repeatedly get his ass kicked by people who should have been a cakewalk to him, because he still hasnt learned to heal himself right. I also died several times as a result of it. Yeah, im damn sure going to tell someone like that what they should be doing different, because it effects not only him, but me as well.
Its kind of the same in some games with certain classes/builds/specs. You might enjoy playing your character a certain way, and you might think its just fine, but in many cases you may be missing out on something that could easily make you 2-3x as good of a player and much more useful in a group setting. When youre specced the "wrong" way, it doesnt ONLY effect you, it effects the entire group. So to me, that group has every right to tell you if you should be doing something different. Doesnt mean you have to listen to them, but theyre still right. If youre not willing to make the sacrifice of the way you want to play vs the mor eeffective way, why should any group have to carry that extra weight because you wante dto feel like a special little snowflake?
It seems some of you ar eof the opinion that "nobody better tell me how to play" while at the same time what youre really doing in game is saying "im going to force my way of playing on not just 1 person, but several people, and make them have to do more than their fair share of work in order to get something done".
If someone at your job was constantly screwing something up, or working way to slowly, and you had to constantly fix his mistakes and pick up the extra work he didnt do wouldnt you be in the right to tell them how they can do their job better or what theyre doing wrong?
So? I'm suppose to just put up with someone being bad? I'm suppose to just say hey its okay you wiped us twice because you can't pull half the DPS the rest of the group pulls but hey its okay =] I don't think so. Its okay if you follow ur own path but I DO not put up with people being stupid..... You can have a bad build and it can hurt your dps and it will get you kicked. I may be being a dick, but your being a bigger dick by wasting my time and 3 other peoples time.
I kind of agree with you, but from your text here, the type of people you're talking to aren't the type of people that want to be in the same type of guilds you want to be. You want achievements to take pride in and they want a game to have fun in. In shorter words--For you, perfection is fun; for them fun is fun. (Perfection is fun for me too.)
The "special snowflakes" aren't interested in hardcore raiding. They're interested in having fun in a game. One of two things will happen.. the largest portion of the community will be hardcore, or wannabe-hardcore, and the game will favor spec'ing in precise ways or they'll be special snowflakes that really want to flex the many different souls. Bleeding-edge hardcore skilled players will easily down content that is marginally undertuned when precision, numbers, and min/max'ing a raid's formation is taken into account.
Several specs in WoW's trees had musthave talents unless you had a person of the same spec/class as you, then one player could take the dive for generally a raid buff/aura while the other spent more points into personal dps--as an example.
Hopefully Trion sticks to their guns and doesn't cave to minor balance cries--I mean they had to know what they were getting themself into, it's hard to make two talents that are meaningfully different while balanced. +5% healing recieved is not as good as -5% damage taken--as an example.
Related, I'm all for dps/healing meters (as diagnostic tools, for myself and my raids, I don't care about heroics) because for me, the personal number-crunching game was fun in WoW and was fun with my friends.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I agree. I dont know what more to say. It definitely is a player issue not the game. Hence why I own the game but have barely played. I cant stand the community. I'd rather play torchlight, then I don't have to deal with people telling me how to roll my character.
When i start yelling at people to get the hell off the tank and kill the healers, sometimes people get their panties all up in a twist over "telling them how to play". Am i in the wrong for using some common freaking sense and telling them a much much better way to get something done instead of continuing to lose fights over and over again?
because you are yelling at them. who do you think you are? they work for you? you pay them?
talk to people nicely, people will listen. i played WAR too, i know what you talking about.
When i start yelling at people to get the hell off the tank and kill the healers, sometimes people get their panties all up in a twist over "telling them how to play". Am i in the wrong for using some common freaking sense and telling them a much much better way to get something done instead of continuing to lose fights over and over again?
because you are yelling at them. who do you think you are? they work for you? you pay them?
talk to people nicely, people will listen. i played WAR too, i know what you talking about.
I think the community in almost all MMORPGs, in general, suck today.
I have to blame WoW, for making MMOs too accessible. It used to be mostly former pen and paper RPG players who played MMOs and they understood community, conversation and cooperation.
Now, the masses have descended on the genre and 95% of the players would rather not party with anyone, help anyone or even speak a word to any one.
People who are in long standing guilds heavy in "old timers" can still hold onto some of the social aspect of MMOs, with in their cadre anyway, but most of the players you encounter today might as well be NPCs with no dialogue options!
I had a lot of hope for this game during Beta, I even pre-ordered my digital collector's edition.
Then I realized I had made a serious mistake when I started reading the Rift forums. Player, after player, after player posts started swarming in about how much they "couldn't wait until Rift releases so they could leave wow". Droves of players influxed complaining of WoW culture, and how they hoped Rift would be a new beginning.
You may ask, "Why does this sound so bad?".
The answer is simple. Those same players complaining about WoW culture, are predominately the cause of the culture they abhor. This is a classic psychological masking of their own behavior, in that it is projected on the society, or family they are part of, rather than intro-spectively analyzed.
In short, the very players no longer attracted to WoW, due to it's cultural shift, are responsible for that shift, and will cause the same fate to take hold in Rift.
This, including the widespread security issues associated with Rift's servers is why I am no longer interested in ANY fantasy RPG of the Rift/EQ2/UO/GW genre.
Sometimes the problem is on the receiving end aswell.
Some people, not only ingame, can not take what the other one say. Sometimes one just have to take things for what it is.
(I often fall into this myself aswell. )
I'd say most people take constructive criticism well enough. The problem is they take it about their lives and their job, they take it about large purchases.. They play a game to get away from all that..to do one thing their own way.
On the WoW Paladin forums, there was an amazing **** that was questing in BC content on his alt and a level 80 paladin stopped to help him kill some stuff. The ret-playstyle paladin apparently had cloth, leather, mail and plate.. no stat really won out above the others and his spec was just as bad.
So this guy, the guy questing, gets on the Paladin forums and rips this paladin apart... how bad his spec is, how bad his gear is blah blah blah.
The collective response was just shock/awe/laughter@the OP for how a very casual player chose to play the game. He obviously wasn't raiding in that spec.. but he was having fun and really not hurting anyone... plus he "outed" himself by landing to help the OP.
I'm somewhat of an elitist (sue me) but I'm shocked at what some of this crowd does.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Originally posted by nightfallrob The game is not to blame for a**holes.
Last I checked, the intent of an MMORPG is to play loosely based D&D style content with a lot of other players. Seems to me, your game could be an epic, but if you're surrounded by a**holes, you might as well go back to Baldur's Gate, Morrowind, or any other RPG that is solo play.
Who wants to pay $15 a month to have to sift through self-aggrandizing a**holes who think everyone else is inferior to them?
My motto has always been, when a game stops becoming fun, why in the hell are you playing it?
What does this have anything to do with WoW? Honestly that scapegoating and bigotry towards WoW is sooo played out.
Min/maxers are NOT exclusive to WoW. WoW did not spawn min/maxers. They've been around since before these games were even graphical. You should have known perfectly well that there would be optimal specs. That's why I didn't really buy into this whole soul system, because at the end, when it comes to raiding, there will be optimal specs for each calling.
If someone at your job was constantly screwing something up, or working way to slowly, and you had to constantly fix his mistakes and pick up the extra work he didnt do wouldnt you be in the right to tell them how they can do their job better or what theyre doing wrong?
But the thing is, it's not a job,. You aren't being forced to put up with anything. Blacklist that person and move on. If they are in your guild and it is supposed to be the kind of guild where that kind of stuff matters, tighten up your application system and find a way to suggest they need to find a guild more compatible with their playstyle. If you can tell they are trying and just not getting it, help them-- whether they take it as criticism or a blessing is in how it is put to them.
Let's pretend you're at work waiting to use the copier and the guy in front of you is slowly pressing the copy button again and again to make copies of one document. It's pretty clear that there's a more efficient, less frustrating way to do that. So you decide to say so. There's a big difference between "Hey, Joe, did you know you can make more than one copy at a time if you push this button?" and "Oh MY GOD, Joe! Just push the multi-copy button, noob. You don't even know which button that is? WTF? You suck at making copies, Joe." And the latter is more often than not how it plays out in MMOs.
A lot of the time it isn't even people in the same group or guild offering advice. It's just random people offering unsolicited advice, in the form of "Ur doin it wrong," and that's just plain annoying. If someone is doing it wrong and it isn't any of your business... Keep it to yourself. Sometimes people are experimenting with a particular thing for a reason, and they don't need advice because it is just an experiment. And for some people, ALL THE FUN is in trying to figure things out the hard way.
Sometimes people like the challenge of taking a more difficult path-- and sometimes it does work out better than the conventional wisdom suggests. Sometimes people are experimenting and don't need advice because they are trying out a specific thing.
Sometimes people like the challenge of taking a more difficult path-- and sometimes it does work out better than the conventional wisdom suggests. Sometimes people are experimenting and don't need advice because they are trying out a specific thing.
you guys didnt really expect rift to be anything oter than just another wow clone did you!!! when you have a game like wow which is directed at the mass population of simplton gamers ut there, then your going to lower the standard of the mmo gamers conciderably.
now these games are just full of mmo first or second timers. some of them rush off to try a few otehr games but only really started playing mmo's when they first saw wow on the tv.
hardly any of them have any real affinity or experience with a true mmo today, the standard of gamers has most certainly gone down the pan. and we have blizzard to thank for that and their sub par mmorpg wow.
wow has done nothing for the online gameing industry other than lower the bar, now all you see is clones of wow cropping up all over the place, they all run the same play same feel the same work the same look the same and have and utilise the same mechanics. games like runescape rift sto dcuniverse champions online aion and a ton more recent releases. the trend is set and i doubt we are going to see a substantial in qaulity of mmo games any time soon.
infact mmos have become so rediculously poor over the last 10 years ive decided to go back to consoles and play the single player titles and start new hobbies. things like model ship building and hand painting minature soldiers. its just far far more fullfilling than todays mmo'. if wow is the future then the gameing industry has a limited amount of time left in their life cycle.
its setting the standard for all new mmo's and if i do say so my self, its a disgustingly low low low standard. how they can charge what they charge and still sleep at night for their product is something i will never understand. dont they have any morales ????
Comments
I saw the same sort of thing the other day on my server except it was a different twist.
This dude was trying to claim that some cleric ninja'ed his friends equipment by rolling need on a caster staff.
His logic was:
- his friend, cleric 1, went into the instance as healing spec
- other guys, cleric 2, went in as DPS
- Therefore cleric 2 can't roll on caster stuff even if he has casting cleric rolls and even though other types of clerics use the same stats. Or if you are using a one hander and shield you can't roll on two hander casting staves.
He complained over and over in the chat channel and called everyone who laughed at him a faggot.
Did the majority of the server thinkn this way? I doubt it. The dude was some 13 yer old piece of crap who was pissed he couldn't politic someone out of an item.
Many 13-18 year olds are like this, semi-sociopathic and completely consumed by whatever clique they are in. They will rationalize and justify anything they can to satisfy their selfish whims and ruthlessly punish those who do not belong. And no amount of anything can pierce theyir self-absorved armor. The only thing that ever does is the inevitables failures and consequences of real life.
i too have starting to see this lately. it seems that whenever a new mmorpg comes out, by default the majority of people you will see would have came from wow- which means the majority of the population of any new mmo will be the utter filth that you just described. hopefully the new age mmorpgs that are coming up soon will try to target a different population other than ex-wow players and only then will you have a semi-decent community.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
This thread convinced me that from now on if I'm playing a great game (including if that is the case with GW2 and TSW)....I'm going to start saying the games suck and are horrible and just totally talking them down. Maybe this way I won't add to the attraction for ex-CommunitySucksAss players. I for one, don't WANT to have to play with those douchebags in every game that comes out from now on. I hope they fall in love with their game all over again and never want to play ANY game I like.
Asshats will always be asshats.
I do like that ArenaNet is very anti-griefing and has tried to "grief proof" GW2. We'll see how well that works. Maybe it will make the game not fun for the assholes. I'm hoping.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
This is a player problem not a game problem.
I think part of the problem lies in deep endgame design. IMO, the very toughest content in any game should be fairly easy for totally optimized builds. In other words, the content should only be challenging for those under to modestly geared (or skilled, depending on the game). The best players in the game, armed with the best gear, should steamroll over the hardest content. This way, elitist players wouldn't be bitching at others for not having a 'perfect' build.
When someone is bad..or not satisfactory in the eyes of some when it comes to raid or grouping..why just kick them out and scream "you suxs". What happen to helping someone ..advising them how to setup one of their specs..(even if they don't follow your advice)..or just giving them a bit of wisdom from your own experience? That's part of what a "community" is after all. Instead it's just intolerance and references to some website with spec builds...which will likely leave you with a keylogger these days.
Another player and I closed a rift the other night..i commented how I died on the boss a few times before he/she showed up to help. Did he call me a loser....?...no..He ended giving me some game tips...told me about the puzzles per zone (which I was clueless because I never read up completely on any mmo i play because I like surprises once in a while..even if I learn them from a fellow traveller ..in game))..and crafted and mailed me 2 rings that boosted my stats. cool beans.
That isn't just a WoW thing. There was a lot of banter-- some helpful and some just mean-- about the right gear and AAs (alternate advancement abilities) in EQ1 before WoW was even released. (And I am pretty sure you can find guilds even in WoW that aren't going to verbally roll you because of your spec.)
I am sorry to hear that Rift is turning out that way. I played in beta and found it to be a very mixed experience, as far as the community. I loved the game itself and plan to pick it up for the summer. Maybe I'll be able to get some intel on which servers are the most laid back and friendliest at that point.
On a tangent here, regarding the community, there did seem, in the later stage of beta, a real expectation that everyone had played WoW before. It was a bit of a bummer, since I've only ever played WoW on a very limited basis, so I had no idea what they were talking about when they were trying to impress each other with their prowess in that game, or were comparing things in WoW to things in Rift. The upshot for me, of course, is that I am not so burned out on WoW that I notice or even care if it is or isn't a "WoW clone".
God some of you fanbois drive me nuts. I enjoy RIFT, quite a lot actually! But I'm not so blindly loyal to any game or thing to completely disregard the obvious. To those that keep saying IT'S NOTHING LIKE WOW!!!!!! Whatever, there are a TON of things almost identical, and it IS basically a clone with a few added features. And it goes way beyond just the "all mmo's have these features it's copying from all games!" Ok, cool story, it's still MOST similar to Wow and War by a LONG shot. For me though I don't care because I'm having a lot of fun.
Bottom line - have fun with the game, take pride in the fact that you love a clone (it's ok, it's a REALLY high quality game regardless) and stop denying the obvious.
The classes can be specced across a broad range, you were just in a group composed mostly of a**holes. The game is not to blame for a**holes.
I have no problems at all with anyone "telling" me how to play my character in an MMO...as long as they are paying my monthly sub fee, bought me the game, pay for the electricity I use to power my pc, my ISP bill...
Well I'm lvl 47 now with my rogue, and have played through every dungeon I've hit a high enough level for, I believe. I have never experienced anything remotely like what the OP described. In fact, when I've been in groups and specifically asked the group leader or group in general what spec they want me to play as, I get either no answer at all or "play what you want
". And all the dungeon attempts have been fun and smooth. I could play a 3-soul hybrid spec with points spread equally between 3 souls and no one would have cared.
Gameplay wise, my experience has been that Rift is very similar to WoW. Community wise, it has been NOTHING like WoW. Maybe the difference is I used to play on a PvP server in WoW and now I play on a PvE server in Rift.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Just my input on the whole telling people how to play / spec thing:
Some people seem to be way too easily offended by this... though depending on how youre told youre doing it wrong, i guess its understandable.
Now me, i dont pretend to be a nice & cheery person, and i get on peoples cases about doing things wrong, especially within my own guilds. Its not meant as a slight to other people, but as a way to make the group/guild as a whole better & more efficient.
A lot of you dont seem to understand just how utterly terrible people are at doing & understanding things, especially in MMOs. Sometimes there are those who understand thing better & more quickly, and they tend to get frustrated by the 1st group so they may say things that seem dickish out of frustration.
Just as an example:
In WAR, i am constantly watching my entire party/warband sit there beating on a well geared tank who has 3-5 healers standing 30 feet behind him keeping him alive. They will sit there lieterally for 5 minutes trying to kill the guy, and he is STILL at full health. They dont get the hint that someone else is keeping him alive, and continuing to attack him is a waste of time until you kill those healers. I see it several times a day every day, and not just in WAR but in pretty much every MMO ive ever played.
When i start yelling at people to get the hell off the tank and kill the healers, sometimes people get their panties all up in a twist over "telling them how to play". Am i in the wrong for using some common freaking sense and telling them a much much better way to get something done instead of continuing to lose fights over and over again?
I also ran into a guy the other day who was playing a Disciple of Khaine, which is a melee based healer that relies on regular heals + lifetaps for surviving. Went into an SC with this guy, and he was not only not healing others (which is fairly common for DoKs) but not even healing himself AT ALL. Seriously, 0 points in heals on the scoreboard. By playing that way, he was only feeding the enemy free points while doing absolutely nothing useful. I gave him shit about not even healing himself. I didnt give a shit if he healed me, but iw as like come on youre fucking useless right now, youre not even attempting to throw a single heal on yourself. I played with this guy again yesterday, and watched him repeatedly get his ass kicked by people who should have been a cakewalk to him, because he still hasnt learned to heal himself right. I also died several times as a result of it. Yeah, im damn sure going to tell someone like that what they should be doing different, because it effects not only him, but me as well.
Its kind of the same in some games with certain classes/builds/specs. You might enjoy playing your character a certain way, and you might think its just fine, but in many cases you may be missing out on something that could easily make you 2-3x as good of a player and much more useful in a group setting. When youre specced the "wrong" way, it doesnt ONLY effect you, it effects the entire group. So to me, that group has every right to tell you if you should be doing something different. Doesnt mean you have to listen to them, but theyre still right. If youre not willing to make the sacrifice of the way you want to play vs the mor eeffective way, why should any group have to carry that extra weight because you wante dto feel like a special little snowflake?
It seems some of you ar eof the opinion that "nobody better tell me how to play" while at the same time what youre really doing in game is saying "im going to force my way of playing on not just 1 person, but several people, and make them have to do more than their fair share of work in order to get something done".
If someone at your job was constantly screwing something up, or working way to slowly, and you had to constantly fix his mistakes and pick up the extra work he didnt do wouldnt you be in the right to tell them how they can do their job better or what theyre doing wrong?
I kind of agree with you, but from your text here, the type of people you're talking to aren't the type of people that want to be in the same type of guilds you want to be. You want achievements to take pride in and they want a game to have fun in. In shorter words--For you, perfection is fun; for them fun is fun. (Perfection is fun for me too.)
The "special snowflakes" aren't interested in hardcore raiding. They're interested in having fun in a game. One of two things will happen.. the largest portion of the community will be hardcore, or wannabe-hardcore, and the game will favor spec'ing in precise ways or they'll be special snowflakes that really want to flex the many different souls. Bleeding-edge hardcore skilled players will easily down content that is marginally undertuned when precision, numbers, and min/max'ing a raid's formation is taken into account.
Several specs in WoW's trees had musthave talents unless you had a person of the same spec/class as you, then one player could take the dive for generally a raid buff/aura while the other spent more points into personal dps--as an example.
Hopefully Trion sticks to their guns and doesn't cave to minor balance cries--I mean they had to know what they were getting themself into, it's hard to make two talents that are meaningfully different while balanced. +5% healing recieved is not as good as -5% damage taken--as an example.
Related, I'm all for dps/healing meters (as diagnostic tools, for myself and my raids, I don't care about heroics) because for me, the personal number-crunching game was fun in WoW and was fun with my friends.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Yea,
I agree. I dont know what more to say. It definitely is a player issue not the game. Hence why I own the game but have barely played. I cant stand the community. I'd rather play torchlight, then I don't have to deal with people telling me how to roll my character.
because you are yelling at them. who do you think you are? they work for you? you pay them?
talk to people nicely, people will listen. i played WAR too, i know what you talking about.
Which FF Character Are You?
quit from the grp.
Which FF Character Are You?
I usually start of Black Garden with something like: People do know there is a Fang in here right?
I think the community in almost all MMORPGs, in general, suck today.
I have to blame WoW, for making MMOs too accessible. It used to be mostly former pen and paper RPG players who played MMOs and they understood community, conversation and cooperation.
Now, the masses have descended on the genre and 95% of the players would rather not party with anyone, help anyone or even speak a word to any one.
People who are in long standing guilds heavy in "old timers" can still hold onto some of the social aspect of MMOs, with in their cadre anyway, but most of the players you encounter today might as well be NPCs with no dialogue options!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Sometimes the problem is on the receiving end aswell.
Some people, not only ingame, can not take what the other one say. Sometimes one just have to take things for what it is.
(I often fall into this myself aswell. )
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I had a lot of hope for this game during Beta, I even pre-ordered my digital collector's edition.
Then I realized I had made a serious mistake when I started reading the Rift forums. Player, after player, after player posts started swarming in about how much they "couldn't wait until Rift releases so they could leave wow". Droves of players influxed complaining of WoW culture, and how they hoped Rift would be a new beginning.
You may ask, "Why does this sound so bad?".
The answer is simple. Those same players complaining about WoW culture, are predominately the cause of the culture they abhor. This is a classic psychological masking of their own behavior, in that it is projected on the society, or family they are part of, rather than intro-spectively analyzed.
In short, the very players no longer attracted to WoW, due to it's cultural shift, are responsible for that shift, and will cause the same fate to take hold in Rift.
This, including the widespread security issues associated with Rift's servers is why I am no longer interested in ANY fantasy RPG of the Rift/EQ2/UO/GW genre.
I'd say most people take constructive criticism well enough. The problem is they take it about their lives and their job, they take it about large purchases.. They play a game to get away from all that..to do one thing their own way.
On the WoW Paladin forums, there was an amazing **** that was questing in BC content on his alt and a level 80 paladin stopped to help him kill some stuff. The ret-playstyle paladin apparently had cloth, leather, mail and plate.. no stat really won out above the others and his spec was just as bad.
So this guy, the guy questing, gets on the Paladin forums and rips this paladin apart... how bad his spec is, how bad his gear is blah blah blah.
The collective response was just shock/awe/laughter@the OP for how a very casual player chose to play the game. He obviously wasn't raiding in that spec.. but he was having fun and really not hurting anyone... plus he "outed" himself by landing to help the OP.
I'm somewhat of an elitist (sue me) but I'm shocked at what some of this crowd does.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Last I checked, the intent of an MMORPG is to play loosely based D&D style content with a lot of other players. Seems to me, your game could be an epic, but if you're surrounded by a**holes, you might as well go back to Baldur's Gate, Morrowind, or any other RPG that is solo play.
Who wants to pay $15 a month to have to sift through self-aggrandizing a**holes who think everyone else is inferior to them?
My motto has always been, when a game stops becoming fun, why in the hell are you playing it?
What does this have anything to do with WoW? Honestly that scapegoating and bigotry towards WoW is sooo played out.
Min/maxers are NOT exclusive to WoW. WoW did not spawn min/maxers. They've been around since before these games were even graphical. You should have known perfectly well that there would be optimal specs. That's why I didn't really buy into this whole soul system, because at the end, when it comes to raiding, there will be optimal specs for each calling.
But the thing is, it's not a job,. You aren't being forced to put up with anything. Blacklist that person and move on. If they are in your guild and it is supposed to be the kind of guild where that kind of stuff matters, tighten up your application system and find a way to suggest they need to find a guild more compatible with their playstyle. If you can tell they are trying and just not getting it, help them-- whether they take it as criticism or a blessing is in how it is put to them.
Let's pretend you're at work waiting to use the copier and the guy in front of you is slowly pressing the copy button again and again to make copies of one document. It's pretty clear that there's a more efficient, less frustrating way to do that. So you decide to say so. There's a big difference between "Hey, Joe, did you know you can make more than one copy at a time if you push this button?" and "Oh MY GOD, Joe! Just push the multi-copy button, noob. You don't even know which button that is? WTF? You suck at making copies, Joe." And the latter is more often than not how it plays out in MMOs.
A lot of the time it isn't even people in the same group or guild offering advice. It's just random people offering unsolicited advice, in the form of "Ur doin it wrong," and that's just plain annoying. If someone is doing it wrong and it isn't any of your business... Keep it to yourself. Sometimes people are experimenting with a particular thing for a reason, and they don't need advice because it is just an experiment. And for some people, ALL THE FUN is in trying to figure things out the hard way.
Sometimes people like the challenge of taking a more difficult path-- and sometimes it does work out better than the conventional wisdom suggests. Sometimes people are experimenting and don't need advice because they are trying out a specific thing.
Sometimes people like the challenge of taking a more difficult path-- and sometimes it does work out better than the conventional wisdom suggests. Sometimes people are experimenting and don't need advice because they are trying out a specific thing.
you guys didnt really expect rift to be anything oter than just another wow clone did you!!! when you have a game like wow which is directed at the mass population of simplton gamers ut there, then your going to lower the standard of the mmo gamers conciderably.
now these games are just full of mmo first or second timers. some of them rush off to try a few otehr games but only really started playing mmo's when they first saw wow on the tv.
hardly any of them have any real affinity or experience with a true mmo today, the standard of gamers has most certainly gone down the pan. and we have blizzard to thank for that and their sub par mmorpg wow.
wow has done nothing for the online gameing industry other than lower the bar, now all you see is clones of wow cropping up all over the place, they all run the same play same feel the same work the same look the same and have and utilise the same mechanics. games like runescape rift sto dcuniverse champions online aion and a ton more recent releases. the trend is set and i doubt we are going to see a substantial in qaulity of mmo games any time soon.
infact mmos have become so rediculously poor over the last 10 years ive decided to go back to consoles and play the single player titles and start new hobbies. things like model ship building and hand painting minature soldiers. its just far far more fullfilling than todays mmo'. if wow is the future then the gameing industry has a limited amount of time left in their life cycle.
its setting the standard for all new mmo's and if i do say so my self, its a disgustingly low low low standard. how they can charge what they charge and still sleep at night for their product is something i will never understand. dont they have any morales ????