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After Rift, What Would It Take?

SteamRangerSteamRanger Great Northwest, WAPosts: 920Member Uncommon

Rift, for me, turned out to be rather uninspired and is nowhere near the experience that WoW was at release. Playing on the last day of the "Head Start" (aka: server load testing), I found myself missing the Azeroth I remembered, but Ghostcrawler and Cataclysm have pretty much burned that bridge. That got me thinking. Blizzard doesn't seem to interested in asking, so I'll ask it here. If you've stopped playing World of Warcraft, what one thing would it take to make you consider jumping in the barrel again?

For me, it would be the announcement that Greg Street has been removed from the WoW development team. How about you?

"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift

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Comments

  • felorefelore Oak Grove, MOPosts: 222Member

    "uninspired" caused me to stop reading <sigh> people these days

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,480Member Uncommon

    A game with challenge. I hate how easy all the games are nowadays. I actually enjoyed it took me almost a year to hit 50 in DAOC. I could go on, but WOW/Rift/LOTRO/most MMOs nowadays are too damn easy.

  • SteamRangerSteamRanger Great Northwest, WAPosts: 920Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by felore

    "uninspired" caused me to stop reading people these days

    And somehow, because you seeming have a different perception, it negates mine? "People these days" indeed.

     

    Note: Punctuation is your friend.

     

    "Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
    "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift

  • felorefelore Oak Grove, MOPosts: 222Member

    Originally posted by Soki123

    A game with challenge. I hate how easy all the games are nowadays. I actually enjoyed it took me almost a year to hit 50 in DAOC. I could go on, but WOW/Rift/LOTRO/most MMOs nowadays are too damn easy.

     Yes I miss having 10 Life Mages heal me as I retrieve my body from a Acid pit to get my uber armor back...ooo those were the days...it was like leading a raid for 5 hours just to get your body back ^.^ (Asherons Call)

  • watchawatchawatchawatcha LIC, NYPosts: 960Member

    Originally posted by Soki123

    A game with challenge. I hate how easy all the games are nowadays. I actually enjoyed it took me almost a year to hit 50 in DAOC. I could go on, but WOW/Rift/LOTRO/most MMOs nowadays are too damn easy.

    Easy?  MMOs shouldn't be about leveling.  It should be about challenging content.  Regardless for Rift, the guy who was the first to hit 50 this weekend on our server did it with a group of 6 people using one account running non-stop.  That's how people level fast in these games nowadays.  Normal people it will take a few weeks to hit max level.

    So many people are so obsessed with being 'first' in something now, that they'll do whatever it takes- regardless of how difficult the curve is made.

    Longer time sinks put in place only further encourages account sharing to get to that 'magic number'

  • watchawatchawatchawatcha LIC, NYPosts: 960Member

    Originally posted by SteamRanger

    Originally posted by felore

    "uninspired" caused me to stop reading people these days

    And somehow, because you seeming have a different perception, it negates mine? "People these days" indeed.

     

    Note: Punctuation is your friend.

     

    uninspired is usually backed up with facts.  I could call WoW uninspired because it took EQ UI and 3D modeling and stole the IP from Warhammer.  I wouldn't though because I don't think that would be fair to WoW.  That's probably what he was getting at.

  • felorefelore Oak Grove, MOPosts: 222Member

    Originally posted by watchawatcha

    Originally posted by SteamRanger

    Originally posted by felore

    "uninspired" caused me to stop reading people these days

    And somehow, because you seeming have a different perception, it negates mine? "People these days" indeed.

     

    Note: Punctuation is your friend.

     

    uninspired is usually backed up with facts.  I could call WoW uninspired because it took EQ UI and 3D modeling and stole the IP from Warhammer.  I wouldn't though because I don't think that would be fair to WoW.  That's probably what he was getting at.

     Correct...I would never refer to any game as uninspired

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,480Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by watchawatcha

    Originally posted by Soki123

    A game with challenge. I hate how easy all the games are nowadays. I actually enjoyed it took me almost a year to hit 50 in DAOC. I could go on, but WOW/Rift/LOTRO/most MMOs nowadays are too damn easy.

    Easy?  MMOs shouldn't be about leveling.  It should be about challenging content.  Regardless for Rift, the guy who was the first to hit 50 this weekend on our server did it with a group of 6 people using one account running non-stop.  That's how people level fast in these games nowadays.  Normal people it will take a few weeks to hit max level.

    So many people are so obsessed with being 'first' in something now, that they'll do whatever it takes- regardless of how difficult the curve is made.

    Longer time sinks put in place only further encourages account sharing to get to that 'magic number'

     Well if thats your take on it, so be it. I m talking not about leveling took longer, it s what I did while I leveled. I rarely ever look at my xp bar in any game, and nowadays, I leveltoo fast, it s sickening. I really don t care about powerlevelers, and how they get to end game, I care about what I m doing on my way to end game. Now I could solo in DAOC, but it was much better with a group, and funner. People actually taked, helped each other, and generally had a good social time. In Rift, you run towards these tentacles, hit join on public party, kill , and leave, without saying a word. Some do talk, butmost don t. WOW is no different, click a button, wait, do a dungeon and leave. I can solo Rift from start to finish if I want to. I actually want to rely on others at some point of my leveling experience. SO as I said games are too damn easy nowadays.

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member

    To OP: They opened new EQ servers that start with the original game and then go through the various expansions.

    If you're really so fond of old school MMOs, you might want to check it out.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,978Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by watchawatcha

    uninspired is usually backed up with facts.  I could call WoW uninspired because it took EQ UI and 3D modeling and stole the IP from Warhammer.  I wouldn't though because I don't think that would be fair to WoW.  That's probably what he was getting at.

    Wows IP is far from Warhammer. Wows world is cute, no rotgut drunks lying in their own vomit on the streets, no mutants hiding in every shadow, no weird slanesh cults doing perverse rituals. You surely have not played the warhammer RPG game, possibole some Bloodbowl to speak like that.

    As for Rift being uninspired, some parts of it is uninspired. A lot of the quests and the layout of the citites really feels like a hasty work.

    Other part of it shows hard work however so I would't call the entire game uninspired. So you are kinda both right or wrong.

  • felorefelore Oak Grove, MOPosts: 222Member

    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by watchawatcha

    Originally posted by Soki123

    A game with challenge. I hate how easy all the games are nowadays. I actually enjoyed it took me almost a year to hit 50 in DAOC. I could go on, but WOW/Rift/LOTRO/most MMOs nowadays are too damn easy.

    Easy?  MMOs shouldn't be about leveling.  It should be about challenging content.  Regardless for Rift, the guy who was the first to hit 50 this weekend on our server did it with a group of 6 people using one account running non-stop.  That's how people level fast in these games nowadays.  Normal people it will take a few weeks to hit max level.

    So many people are so obsessed with being 'first' in something now, that they'll do whatever it takes- regardless of how difficult the curve is made.

    Longer time sinks put in place only further encourages account sharing to get to that 'magic number'

     Well if thats your take on it, so be it. I m talking not about leveling took longer, it s what I did while I leveled. I rarely ever look at my xp bar in any game, and nowadays, I leveltoo fast, it s sickening. I really don t care about powerlevelers, and how they get to end game, I care about what I m doing on my way to end game. Now I could solo in DAOC, but it was much better with a group, and funner. People actually taked, helped each other, and generally had a good social time. In Rift, you run towards these tentacles, hit join on public party, kill , and leave, without saying a word. Some do talk, butmost don t. WOW is no different, click a button, wait, do a dungeon and leave. I can solo Rift from start to finish if I want to. I actually want to rely on others at some point of my leveling experience. SO as I said games are too damn easy nowadays.

     Vent eliminated chatting...im too busy venting with my buds that i never look at chat  <I blame vent for this>.....didnt WoW invent Ventrilo?

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAPosts: 2,898Member

    Originally posted by felore

    "uninspired" caused me to stop reading people these days

    HA! Are you actually going to try to argue that Rift was an "inspired" innovative game that moved the genre forward and had tons of its own ideas? Yeah, didn't think so. Even its biggest new toy, the Rift system, is taken right from Tabula Rasa.

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,480Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Scambug

    Originally posted by Soki123

    A game with challenge. I hate how easy all the games are nowadays. I actually enjoyed it took me almost a year to hit 50 in DAOC. I could go on, but WOW/Rift/LOTRO/most MMOs nowadays are too damn easy.

    You ever tried doing a WoW raid without using DBM or watching the tankspot videos beforehand?...

    Come again about it being easy when you've done that.

    ps: I'm not defending WoW, infact I hate what that game's become. I'm just pointing out that what makes things easy is the fact that everyone knows the fights by heart before they even see them with their own eyes.

     I should re word that. Getting to end game is too damn easy nowadays, they ve become an unsocial affair. I agree WOW in hardmode isn t easy at all, I m talking about what it takes to get there. Rift is no different.

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,480Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by felore

    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by watchawatcha

    Originally posted by Soki123

    A game with challenge. I hate how easy all the games are nowadays. I actually enjoyed it took me almost a year to hit 50 in DAOC. I could go on, but WOW/Rift/LOTRO/most MMOs nowadays are too damn easy.

    Easy?  MMOs shouldn't be about leveling.  It should be about challenging content.  Regardless for Rift, the guy who was the first to hit 50 this weekend on our server did it with a group of 6 people using one account running non-stop.  That's how people level fast in these games nowadays.  Normal people it will take a few weeks to hit max level.

    So many people are so obsessed with being 'first' in something now, that they'll do whatever it takes- regardless of how difficult the curve is made.

    Longer time sinks put in place only further encourages account sharing to get to that 'magic number'

     Well if thats your take on it, so be it. I m talking not about leveling took longer, it s what I did while I leveled. I rarely ever look at my xp bar in any game, and nowadays, I leveltoo fast, it s sickening. I really don t care about powerlevelers, and how they get to end game, I care about what I m doing on my way to end game. Now I could solo in DAOC, but it was much better with a group, and funner. People actually taked, helped each other, and generally had a good social time. In Rift, you run towards these tentacles, hit join on public party, kill , and leave, without saying a word. Some do talk, butmost don t. WOW is no different, click a button, wait, do a dungeon and leave. I can solo Rift from start to finish if I want to. I actually want to rely on others at some point of my leveling experience. SO as I said games are too damn easy nowadays.

     Vent eliminated chatting...im too busy venting with my buds that i never look at chat  .....didnt WoW invent Ventrilo?

     Chatting has been almost eliminated because of vent, but that has nothing to do with game mechanics and how easy they are nowadays.

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member

    Originally posted by Soki123

     I should re word that. Getting to end game is too damn easy nowadays, they ve become an unsocial affair. I agree WOW in hardmode isn t easy at all, I m talking about what it takes to get there. Rift is no different.

    Should we accept games that are so devoid of content that they are only fun if other players are around to provide entertainment for you?

    What's wrong with those games that are fun to solo, and more fun to play grouped?

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,978Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Scambug

    You ever tried doing a WoW raid without using DBM or watching the tankspot videos beforehand?...

    Come again about it being easy when you've done that.

    ps: I'm not defending WoW, infact I hate what that game's become. I'm just pointing out that what makes things easy is the fact that everyone knows the fights by heart before they even see them with their own eyes.

    Yeah, but it depends on how you count difficulty. Just taking the hardest raid or the easiest soloquest as an example is plain silly. You kinda need to pick a in between value that mirrors most of the content.

    Wow is not the hardest game out there and not the easiest either. But many old player are upset because the general difficulty dropped somewhat from release to now. And I can frankly understand that, finding a game with just the right difficulty for you personally is hard, sucks when they change it later.

  • felorefelore Oak Grove, MOPosts: 222Member

    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by felore

    "uninspired" caused me to stop reading people these days

    HA! Are you actually going to try to argue that Rift was an "inspired" innovative game that moved the genre forward and had tons of its own ideas? Yeah, didn't think so. Even its biggest new toy, the Rift system, is taken right from Tabula Rasa.

     so your saying...its inspired by Tabula Rasa?  can you please look up the word before typing lol

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,667Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Soki123

    A game with challenge. I hate how easy all the games are nowadays. I actually enjoyed it took me almost a year to hit 50 in DAOC. I could go on, but WOW/Rift/LOTRO/most MMOs nowadays are too damn easy.

    I play MMOs to do fun stuff with other people and collect shiny trinkets. I think the worst thing that ever happened to MMORPGs was that the most die-hard of the EQ flagellates went into game design and brought their affinity for uninspired repetitious grind with them.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • odinsrathodinsrath louisville, KYPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by watchawatcha

    Originally posted by Soki123

    A game with challenge. I hate how easy all the games are nowadays. I actually enjoyed it took me almost a year to hit 50 in DAOC. I could go on, but WOW/Rift/LOTRO/most MMOs nowadays are too damn easy.

    Easy?  MMOs shouldn't be about leveling.  It should be about challenging content.  Regardless for Rift, the guy who was the first to hit 50 this weekend on our server did it with a group of 6 people using one account running non-stop.  That's how people level fast in these games nowadays.  Normal people it will take a few weeks to hit max level.

    So many people are so obsessed with being 'first' in something now, that they'll do whatever it takes- regardless of how difficult the curve is made.

    Longer time sinks put in place only further encourages account sharing to get to that 'magic number'

    so your saying playing a game for a few weeks and being maxed lvl is fun in mmo's? maaaan o has the standerds on mmorpgs gone out and flew out the friggin window..these theampark mmo's are truely the death of mmorpg gameing as we know it

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,480Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Naqaj

    Originally posted by Soki123

     I should re word that. Getting to end game is too damn easy nowadays, they ve become an unsocial affair. I agree WOW in hardmode isn t easy at all, I m talking about what it takes to get there. Rift is no different.

    Should we accept games that are so devoid of content that they are only fun if other players are around to provide entertainment for you?

    What's wrong with those games that are fun to solo, and more fun to play grouped?

     The post asked what would it take, to me thats what it would take. I could care less if people like solo friendly games. I m saying I don t, to each their own.

  • SkeeterxiSkeeterxi Hudson, FLPosts: 265Member

    There really is probably nothing WoW could do to suck me back in. Maybe a complete graphics overhaul with a new game engine, I would probably check it out but I don't think I would stick around. After playing through multiple expansions, Cataclysm just made me realize I am just over the gear treadmill type game play.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAPosts: 2,898Member

    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by felore


    Originally posted by Soki123


    Originally posted by watchawatcha


    Originally posted by Soki123

    A game with challenge. I hate how easy all the games are nowadays. I actually enjoyed it took me almost a year to hit 50 in DAOC. I could go on, but WOW/Rift/LOTRO/most MMOs nowadays are too damn easy.

    Easy?  MMOs shouldn't be about leveling.  It should be about challenging content.  Regardless for Rift, the guy who was the first to hit 50 this weekend on our server did it with a group of 6 people using one account running non-stop.  That's how people level fast in these games nowadays.  Normal people it will take a few weeks to hit max level.

    So many people are so obsessed with being 'first' in something now, that they'll do whatever it takes- regardless of how difficult the curve is made.

    Longer time sinks put in place only further encourages account sharing to get to that 'magic number'

     Well if thats your take on it, so be it. I m talking not about leveling took longer, it s what I did while I leveled. I rarely ever look at my xp bar in any game, and nowadays, I leveltoo fast, it s sickening. I really don t care about powerlevelers, and how they get to end game, I care about what I m doing on my way to end game. Now I could solo in DAOC, but it was much better with a group, and funner. People actually taked, helped each other, and generally had a good social time. In Rift, you run towards these tentacles, hit join on public party, kill , and leave, without saying a word. Some do talk, butmost don t. WOW is no different, click a button, wait, do a dungeon and leave. I can solo Rift from start to finish if I want to. I actually want to rely on others at some point of my leveling experience. SO as I said games are too damn easy nowadays.

     Vent eliminated chatting...im too busy venting with my buds that i never look at chat  .....didnt WoW invent Ventrilo?

     Chatting has been almost eliminated because of vent, but that has nothing to do with game mechanics and how easy they are nowadays.

    I'd say its more accurate to say that WoW and its clones encourage soloing almost exclusively, and the only time you ever group with anyone, its a quick affair with people you'll never talk to again so people don't talk to one another. Between the instances and the solo quest grind, there's absolutely no meeting new people. You have a guild, and if you do anything, you do it with the guild (raiding).

     

    And yes, I'd even say WoW's raids are insanely easy compared to real MMO raiding. You have all those extra helping tools, and the monsters are specifically limited in terms of who they fight and at what level, so there's one set way to beat them. There's no death penalty for failure, so there's that too. The AI in the monster doesn't scale or change, it's static, because the number of people fighting it is static.

  • SteamRangerSteamRanger Great Northwest, WAPosts: 920Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by watchawatcha

    uninspired is usually backed up with facts.  I could call WoW uninspired because it took EQ UI and 3D modeling and stole the IP from Warhammer.  I wouldn't though because I don't think that would be fair to WoW.  That's probably what he was getting at.

    Wows IP is far from Warhammer. Wows world is cute, no rotgut drunks lying in their own vomit on the streets, no mutants hiding in every shadow, no weird slanesh cults doing perverse rituals. You surely have not played the warhammer RPG game, possibole some Bloodbowl to speak like that.

    As for Rift being uninspired, some parts of it is uninspired. A lot of the quests and the layout of the citites really feels like a hasty work.

    Other part of it shows hard work however so I would't call the entire game uninspired. So you are kinda both right or wrong.

     Loke, now you're making me pine for the Warhammer game that could have been.

    Incidentally, I said that I found Rift uninspired, based upon my own experience. Others' mileage may vary, but that doesn't invalidate my own perception, nor should it. It was a subjective comment.

    "Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
    "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by felore

     Vent eliminated chatting...im too busy venting with my buds that i never look at chat  .....didnt WoW invent Ventrilo?

     A lot of people used Teamspeak before Vent on games like SWG, DAoC, and even UO.  Just saying.

     

    The problem we are experiencing is game makers make a game that is for the "average" user, and its rare that anyone actually fills that role.  The quest system is designed so that way its not too long so people get bored who want to race to high level, and its not too short so casuals who mostly play games for the leveling experience still get their cake too.  However, its never long enough, or detailed enough for the players who want games more about the "journey" and its never quick enough or difficult enough for those who are about the "challenge" which is why almost no one ends up happy, just sorta satisfied.

    sorry for long paragraph.  <,<;

     

    Oh and about everyone wanting to race to be the first, I mean this is human nature, Space race, Olympics, Wars, all the crazy competitions we invent on a daily basis.  Someones gotta win, might as well be them right?

  • Generally: taking the addicts, repetitive gameplays and social abusers out of the game. More specifically this could take me back:

     

    - Lots of rare drops in instances as well as soloplay.

    - A stop in graphic improvements and more investments in new areas (exploring). I loved nearly all areas, well no all areas in Eastern Kingdoms, and nearly all in Kalimdor. Well I think all actually. :D It's just the whole leveling that i will never forget.

    - Remove of general chats --> No more scams, trolls

    - A focus on thrilling gameplay and tactics.

    - 40-mans dungeons.

    - Not reward-based, but quest-based and exploring-based.

    - Quests a little challenging, dungeons a little challenging.

    - Basic spellcombinations with a few tactics possible to boost dps.

    - Pay for freedom of playing --> Less control of  "how it should be" from Blizzard, more control and perhaps power for the gamer. Meaning more dynamic environments, changing according to the race --> for example dwarves build more caves like Iron Forge, during the time of the expansion. Also:

       - freedom to take any craft as much and many as you want

       - freedom to go back to any level with any gearset that you have acquired before

       - freedom to play every class at max level

    - Force into casual gameplay. 

    - No rewards for grinding other than rare drops. Rare drops are so rare that they cannot be grinded. However there will be a lot of different rare drops so that in the auction house rare drops can be sold and bought.

    - Long-term guild rewards.

    - Agressive policy against bullying, ninja's, trolls, scammers, goldsellers.

    - Hardest challenges that are only for pro players, will be rewarded only after the next expansion, if there are rewards for that at all :P.

    - No more addons.

    - More crafting possibilities, but not in sand-box form.

    - No social sandbox but real-life communities.

    - Climate-based: becoming a little educative, perhaps innovative (crafting system for example).

    - Changing name from World of Warcraft to a more general name that relates more to all my other points.

    - Open world pvp. This is possible due to an aggressive policy against any form of player abuse in the game.

    - A finish in the game, spread over the months during an expansion period, requiring casual gameplay.

    - ...etc...

     

    What actually would take me back for sure is that I would be willing to pay 50 euro's a month for a game that can give me that "feeling of Azeroth" without having to play like an addict :P.

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