I'm not going to get into the fact that this game takes no risks at all in terms of original ideas. We all know which ones were stolen from which games and its blatantly obvious. Moving on.
My biggest problem with Rift, as it stands, is that the gameplay has been stale since level 1. A shaking camera every once in a while does not make the combat heart-pounding. There is very little strategy in terms of skill usage... It's pretty much the same combo that you decided was best, and you repeat it over and over. Very few skills are situational. Overall, I don't feel like I'm playing a game. I feel like I have a shitty job. Tell me, please, what is fun about targetting a mob, pressing 2 3 4 5 6 1, and knowing that it will be dead, every time, by the time it reaches my mage? Oh really? Now multiply that by the 5,000 times I have done the same thing. Why am I not getting paid for my labor? Oh wait, I'm paying them.
The character control in this game is abysmal. I feel like my character has ice skates on. When you compare it to, say DC Universe online's movement, Rift is several steps backwards from what some modern day MMOs have to offer. The characters do not interact with their environment (one of the few things I liked about Aion was how the character's legs would bend to meet the terrain). The animations are choppy. The invisible walls piss me off.
The engine itself is amateur and characteristic of a small studio. Yeah, you could take the Shadowbane engine and add enough polygons to make it look pretty, but it's not going to run well. The game looks typical to most next-gen games with the graphics on max, but trust me no modern day computer is going to be able to handle a crowded area with those settings. It is just not coded well enough.
Rift is a mediocre MMO that will only appeal to people who are unemployed and looking for a boring way to spend their time so it feels like they are working. Bottom line is Rift, with all its positive aspects, IS NOT FUN. If you think this game is fun you are delusional and have played so many hours of MMOs that your mind has lost all sense of comparison for what fun actually is.
Hey, if you didn't like the betas, that's a shame for you. But just because you didn't like it doesn't mean everyone else is going to hate it too.
You know, I agree to an extent with the OP. He might have some anger issues and is probably judgemental and a bit pretentious but whatever, it's as about as bad as the fanboy's screaming about how perfect the game is, when it clearly also has it's issues.
Things like the way the character run and moves are preferences, they don't make the game hard to play or ruin the gameplay.
Mashing buttons in a particular order happens in every MMO as previous posters have noted. Its a basic formula that you can't get away from and if you think about it isn't even restricted to MMO gameplay. Every PC game is like this to some extent.
There is nothing new here, it is just another flavor of the same type of game all of us love - some more than others - just because you like chocolate ice cream doesn't mean that every other ice cream lover will - and it doesn't mean they're idiots for not liking it.
Maybe if you approached the post with a little less detest and a bit more objectively if would've influenced more people the way you wanted.
I know what you mean though and it's a big problem with most of the games that have come out lately. Almost all of the skills in Rift are only combat related, this is supposed to be fantasy right? Why can't we levitate our group, turn into wolves and haul ass across 3 zones at 50 feet? I think many dev's have forgotten what true fantasy is and I miss the imagination that went into some of the early MMO's like EQ, where race and class made a big difference in the tactics for the group and gameplay.
All these rift posts make me want to punch a puppy. if you dont like it...dont play it.
In the wise words of Obi Wan,
"These arent the droids you're looking for"
Your first sentence made me feel all warm and fuzzy....you know, like someone really understands the way I feel. I'm pretty much at the level of thinking a puppy LINE UP is in order.
I'm not going to get into the fact that this game takes no risks at all in terms of original ideas. We all know which ones were stolen from which games and its blatantly obvious. Moving on.
My biggest problem with Rift, as it stands, is that the gameplay has been stale since level 1. A shaking camera every once in a while does not make the combat heart-pounding. There is very little strategy in terms of skill usage... It's pretty much the same combo that you decided was best, and you repeat it over and over. Very few skills are situational. Overall, I don't feel like I'm playing a game. I feel like I have a shitty job. Tell me, please, what is fun about targetting a mob, pressing 2 3 4 5 6 1, and knowing that it will be dead, every time, by the time it reaches my mage? Oh really? Now multiply that by the 5,000 times I have done the same thing. Why am I not getting paid for my labor? Oh wait, I'm paying them.
The character control in this game is abysmal. I feel like my character has ice skates on. When you compare it to, say DC Universe online's movement, Rift is several steps backwards from what some modern day MMOs have to offer. The characters do not interact with their environment (one of the few things I liked about Aion was how the character's legs would bend to meet the terrain). The animations are choppy. The invisible walls piss me off.
The engine itself is amateur and characteristic of a small studio. Yeah, you could take the Shadowbane engine and add enough polygons to make it look pretty, but it's not going to run well. The game looks typical to most next-gen games with the graphics on max, but trust me no modern day computer is going to be able to handle a crowded area with those settings. It is just not coded well enough.
Rift is a mediocre MMO that will only appeal to people who are unemployed and looking for a boring way to spend their time so it feels like they are working. Bottom line is Rift, with all its positive aspects, IS NOT FUN. If you think this game is fun you are delusional and have played so many hours of MMOs that your mind has lost all sense of comparison for what fun actually is.
Would be funny if we could lock and bar the gate then just stand on the walls taunting them as they try and get in.
I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries. You don't frighten us, Blizzard pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called 'World of Warcraft,' you and all your silly WoW Fa-n boi-s.
I love how some people think that they are in a position to tell the rest of the players what is fun and what is not.
I think Dave Chappele is hilarious, my GF think's that he's retarded, fun is subjective and the fact that you belive otherwise is pretty pathetic.
I work 10 hours a day, I plan on playing Rift to relax whenever my GF or my kids arent on my back, and some random stranger who doesnt like the game arent going to convince anyone not to play it.
It's like me telling the world that Mcdonalds food is terrible and that they could make their own hamburgers for half the price, but it's not gonna change anyones craving for Mcdonalds, and shouldnt.
How do you know that? they just say it - I would tell everyone that my MMO has 12 million players especially if I did not allow a independant third party to view the details and RATIFY....
So yes the Blizz marketing team can say whatever they like and they do not allow any proof of those numbers...
Because those millions of subscriptions are backed up by a yearly revenue of ... $ 1.6 billion dollars per year (2010), published on 09 Feb 2011. The Wow part was 1.425 billion. Less than 10% comes from the China mainland.
----- > Those figures are published publicly in conjuction with independant third controllers, like the Deutsche Bank and it is called an audited financial report for the stock holders.
To compare : EVE makes around 50 million each year.
I'm not going to get into the fact that this game takes no risks at all in terms of original ideas. We all know which ones were stolen from which games and its blatantly obvious. Moving on.
My biggest problem with Rift, as it stands, is that the gameplay has been stale since level 1. A shaking camera every once in a while does not make the combat heart-pounding. There is very little strategy in terms of skill usage... It's pretty much the same combo that you decided was best, and you repeat it over and over. Very few skills are situational. Overall, I don't feel like I'm playing a game. I feel like I have a shitty job. Tell me, please, what is fun about targetting a mob, pressing 2 3 4 5 6 1, and knowing that it will be dead, every time, by the time it reaches my mage? Oh really? Now multiply that by the 5,000 times I have done the same thing. Why am I not getting paid for my labor? Oh wait, I'm paying them.
The character control in this game is abysmal. I feel like my character has ice skates on. When you compare it to, say DC Universe online's movement, Rift is several steps backwards from what some modern day MMOs have to offer. The characters do not interact with their environment (one of the few things I liked about Aion was how the character's legs would bend to meet the terrain). The animations are choppy. The invisible walls piss me off.
The engine itself is amateur and characteristic of a small studio. Yeah, you could take the Shadowbane engine and add enough polygons to make it look pretty, but it's not going to run well. The game looks typical to most next-gen games with the graphics on max, but trust me no modern day computer is going to be able to handle a crowded area with those settings. It is just not coded well enough.
Rift is a mediocre MMO that will only appeal to people who are unemployed and looking for a boring way to spend their time so it feels like they are working. Bottom line is Rift, with all its positive aspects, IS NOT FUN. If you think this game is fun you are delusional and have played so many hours of MMOs that your mind has lost all sense of comparison for what fun actually is.
lol so you just put down all MMO's out there today, so whats your point?
You know, I agree to an extent with the OP. He might have some anger issues and is probably judgemental and a bit pretentious but whatever, it's as about as bad as the fanboy's screaming about how perfect the game is, when it clearly also has it's issues.
Things like the way the character run and moves are preferences, they don't make the game hard to play or ruin the gameplay.
Mashing buttons in a particular order happens in every MMO as previous posters have noted. Its a basic formula that you can't get away from and if you think about it isn't even restricted to MMO gameplay. Every PC game is like this to some extent.
There is nothing new here, it is just another flavor of the same type of game all of us love - some more than others - just because you like chocolate ice cream doesn't mean that every other ice cream lover will - and it doesn't mean they're idiots for not liking it.
Maybe if you approached the post with a little less detest and a bit more objectively if would've influenced more people the way you wanted.
I know what you mean though and it's a big problem with most of the games that have come out lately. Almost all of the skills in Rift are only combat related, this is supposed to be fantasy right? Why can't we levitate our group, turn into wolves and haul ass across 3 zones at 50 feet? I think many dev's have forgotten what true fantasy is and I miss the imagination that went into some of the early MMO's like EQ, where race and class made a big difference in the tactics for the group and gameplay.
You know, I agree to an extent with the OP. He might have some anger issues and is probably judgemental and a bit pretentious but whatever, it's as about as bad as the fanboy's screaming about how perfect the game is, when it clearly also has it's issues.
Things like the way the character run and moves are preferences, they don't make the game hard to play or ruin the gameplay.
Mashing buttons in a particular order happens in every MMO as previous posters have noted. Its a basic formula that you can't get away from and if you think about it isn't even restricted to MMO gameplay. Every PC game is like this to some extent.
There is nothing new here, it is just another flavor of the same type of game all of us love - some more than others - just because you like chocolate ice cream doesn't mean that every other ice cream lover will - and it doesn't mean they're idiots for not liking it.
Maybe if you approached the post with a little less detest and a bit more objectively if would've influenced more people the way you wanted.
I know what you mean though and it's a big problem with most of the games that have come out lately. Almost all of the skills in Rift are only combat related, this is supposed to be fantasy right? Why can't we levitate our group, turn into wolves and haul ass across 3 zones at 50 feet? I think many dev's have forgotten what true fantasy is and I miss the imagination that went into some of the early MMO's like EQ, where race and class made a big difference in the tactics for the group and gameplay.
DCUO's combat is different.
DCUO is also an action MMO designed as a console beat'em up. Not really a good guideline as to how combat should be in your general MMORPG. It's strictly a preference
I find it funny that players that have been here longer than I have that have been quiet for years come out just to bash this game. Mediocre hmmm? Maybe. Attention getting? Yep.
Games like Mortal Online (when it finally get balanced and base foundation) is where MMORPG should be heading. Levels..? Zones..? <--- if u have any of that, then the game (to me) is not considered a premium game.
Ironically, if 50k people flooded Vanguard, (as if it was a newly released game), you'd see how an open world with no zones makes for a dangerous and adventursome game. It's a real living breathing world.
Indeed.. And that's what MMOs are missing these days... Worlds.
Now, to those who read things literally, understand that yes, I realize games like Rifts and WoW and WAR have "worlds". But the design of them is very "game driven". Things are placed deliberately in this spot or that to serve as the playfield of a game. You could call that the "funneling" effect, or the "rails" effect, or the "connect the quest hubs" effect... whatever it is you may have seen it referred to. "Game worlds" are designed to be played through in a very linear and deliberate fashion.
Virtual Worlds on the other hand are those, like Vanguard, and Darkfall, FFXI, Asheron's Call 2 (RIP), Istaria (Horizons), Ryzom and, from what I've read (not personal experience) apparently Mortal Online. While they will share *some* elements with their more linear counterparts, Virtual World MMOs do not guide you by the hand, they do not funnel you along a pre-set path and everything in the world is not conveniently in a "logical order of progression", with clearly marked roads and arrows always pointing you in the "right direction". The "right direction", of course, being the one the designers intend you to go in at that particular point.
At most, in a virtual world MMO, the new-player experience may be like that... but that's where it ends. After a point, you are "broken in" and ready to head off on your own, seek your own direction, make your own choices, set your own priorities and forge your own path. In a "game world" however, that sense of being directed and told where to go never really ends. It lasts all the way to end game.
I've only touched on the world design aspect of "Virtual World" MMOs versus "Game World" MMOs... and even then, only on the surface. It's a much more involved topic than that, and to be sure, Virtual Worlds are much deeper than just their world design.
All that said... one isn't "better" than the other. It really boils down to what you're looking for in a game. Just seems that these days, the "Game World" type MMOs are much better represented, leaving those of us who enjoy a more virtual world setting a bit wanting.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Because those millions of subscriptions are backed up by a yearly revenue of ... $ 1.6 billion dollars per year (2010), published on 09 Feb 2011. The Wow part was 1.425 billion. Less than 10% comes from the China mainland.
----- > Those figures are published publicly in conjuction with independant third controllers, like the Deutsche Bank and it is called an audited financial report for the stock holders.
To compare : EVE makes around 50 million each year.
This is going offtopic, but I'm curious: in those revenues, aren't the sales of SC2 and CATA included in those numbers? On a sidenote, my guess is more than half of the subs is situated in China where they have a different way of counting subs than subs in the west.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Games like Mortal Online (when it finally get balanced and base foundation) is where MMORPG should be heading. Levels..? Zones..? <--- if u have any of that, then the game (to me) is not considered a premium game.
Ironically, if 50k people flooded Vanguard, (as if it was a newly released game), you'd see how an open world with no zones makes for a dangerous and adventursome game. It's a real living breathing world.
Indeed.. And that's what MMOs are missing these days... Worlds.
Now, to those who read things literally, understand that yes, I realize games like Rifts and WoW and WAR have "worlds". But the design of them is very "game driven". Things are placed deliberately in this spot or that to serve as the playfield of a game. You could call that the "funneling" effect, or the "rails" effect, or the "connect the quest hubs" effect... whatever it is you may have seen it referred to. "Game worlds" are designed to be played through in a very linear and deliberate fashion.
Virtual Worlds on the other hand are those, like Vanguard, and Darkfall, FFXI, Asheron's Call 2 (RIP), Istaria (Horizons), Ryzom and, from what I've read (not personal experience) apparently Mortal Online. While they will share *some* elements with their more linear counterparts, Virtual World MMOs do not guide you by the hand, they do not funnel you along a pre-set path and everything in the world is not conveniently in a "logical order of progression", with clearly marked roads and arrows always pointing you in the "right direction". The "right direction", of course, being the one the designers intend you to go in at that particular point.
At most, in a virtual world MMO, the new-player experience may be like that... but that's where it ends. After a point, you are "broken in" and ready to head off on your own, seek your own direction, make your own choices, set your own priorities and forge your own path. In a "game world" however, that sense of being directed and told where to go never really ends. It lasts all the way to end game.
I've only touched on the world design aspect of "Virtual World" MMOs versus "Game World" MMOs... and even then, only on the surface. It's a much more involved topic than that, and to be sure, Virtual Worlds are much deeper than just their world design.
I'm not sure why a developer with cash hasn't come along and realized that putting a lot of money into a sandbox MMORPG could be really profitable.
They keep trying to mimic WoW because WoW is so popular, but they don't recognize the popularity of games like second life and the Sims.
Once someone adds combat and objectives to a game like second life, and puts a lot of money and has some talent behind it, that will be the next big MMO.
I'm not sure why a developer with cash hasn't come along and realized that putting a lot of money into a sandbox MMORPG could be really profitable.
They keep trying to mimic WoW because WoW is so popular, but they don't recognize the popularity of games like second life and the Sims.
Once someone adds combat and objectives to a game like second life, and puts a lot of money and has some talent behind it, that will be the next big MMO.
I'm sure some developer somewhere has actually thought of this.
The problem is convincing the people with the deep pockets that this idea isn't as risky as it actually is.
I'm pretty convinced that Trion is pushing this themepark more-of-the-same MMO out the doors to prove themselves as a company. Once they do that, investors would be more willing to fund a game that is more risky.
If Blizzard wanted to make a sandbox MMO, they would have the funds, easily. But they won't because it would compete directly with their cashcow.
players bashes all new mmorpgs. maybe because they don't have money to buy the game... Players always bashing wow clones but they never play or want sandbox games or mid sandbox games. I played Vanguard, I was alone. I Played Roma Victor I was completely alone. I was alone even on TCOS. Most areas of Lotro are empty. I'm beta testing GnH i am alone... Played SWG I was alone, etc etc etc...
So... Where are the players ? On world of warcraft. They play Wow and they bash Rift ? Funny.
To the bashers: CYA on Rift. I m beta testing GnH, I was on RV, I was on VG, I'll be on RIft. Because it's the best game I played since Lotro. (Played and BT lot of MMORPGS : from T4C to Rift)
I was that guy who refused to watch the movie Titanic because everyone told me I had to see it. When I finally watched it years later I realized what I had missed - what an incredible movie!
When World of Warcraft came out I was stuck in EQ mode and refused to give the game a try. I will never know what I missed there as I had only tried a brief 7 day trial years ago.
Sometimes folks just need to fight what's popular. No one wants to think they are like sheep, following the herd. So here we go, this game seems to be very popular among folks before launch. So expect the nay-sayers to strut their stuff, spewing anti-popular slogans at the masses. Its only human.
It sounds like the issues mentioned in this thread are the same issues you can whine about in every MMO out there. Every MMO I have played involves getting to know the abiltiies of your character and then utiliizing the best sequence over and over on mobs. At least having to do 1,2,3,4,5,3,4,etc. is better than other games that are 1,2,2,2,1,2,2,2, etc.
I would like to fight the mobs too, but I don't want to miss out on the opportunity to play with and meet alot of gamers in a new MMO environment. MMO's best feature is the massively multiplayer part, so since it appears alot of folks will be showing up at the party I will be there too.
And like I learned from Titanic, usually the popular opinion is the correct one.
I wouldn't call a game as polished or well executed as rift "mediocre". It does what it sets out to do, it appeals to it's target audience. Because we happen not to be it's target doesn't mean we could peg the game as bad or mediocre, because it isn't. Rift is extremely well done. It should offer a solid alternative to players that enjoy that style of mmo.
Because those millions of subscriptions are backed up by a yearly revenue of ... $ 1.6 billion dollars per year (2010), published on 09 Feb 2011. The Wow part was 1.425 billion. Less than 10% comes from the China mainland.
----- > Those figures are published publicly in conjuction with independant third controllers, like the Deutsche Bank and it is called an audited financial report for the stock holders.
To compare : EVE makes around 50 million each year.
This is going offtopic, but I'm curious: in those revenues, aren't the sales of SC2 and CATA included in those numbers? On a sidenote, my guess is more than half of the subs is situated in China where they have a different way of counting subs than subs in the west.
It is off topic (as someone questioned the 12 M subs) , but just to clarify, SC2 sales are not included in the $1.4 billion dollars total.
Blizzard had a 1.6 billion dollar yearly revenue in 2010; Up from 1.2 billion in 2009....(cfr Activison Blizzard Feb 2011 report with a seperate sheet for Blizzard revenue).
If that isn't telling, than I guess nothing is.
The WOW part grew from 1.15 to 1.425 billion, but yes that one included all box WOW sales too.
SC2 accounted for around $150 million. It is telling that SC2 only came to around 10% of what WOW brings in every year.
Back to topics/: to topple this is impossible in any future, unless you drive to a complete other gaming genre, and even "excellent" instead of "mediocre" is still not going anywhere.
I want to comment on the "set skill rotation, rinse and repeat" criticism from the OP.
It's an MMORPG and most titles have this problem, to some degree. The thing about Rift is that there are character builds that are a lot more situational and reactive, if that is what you are looking for. Take some personal responsibility, rather than blaming the game because it allowed you to build a "boring in combat" character.
In general for MMORPGs, I really don't see what the solution is for this. Most games that have attempted to make combat more dynamic have done so by greatly reducing the number of skills, while making things more reactive or adding combos (which themselves are just repetative combinations of key strokes).
I'm just glad that Rift allows players so much control over their character builds as it is very possible to more finely tune your character to your playstyle than in most other titles.
It is funny reading some of these things. I mean, you know, the amount of pseudo-elitism that people attempt to pass off to justify what is basically just an opinion. Experience only comes into play with discussing facts. Experience may help somebody form their opinion, but it does not make their opinion fact...
Wrong.
Trammies need to stop polluting the MMORPG landscape. They already have enough games in which to emote hugs and sell garbage by the banks.
Wtf are some of you smoking? Shrouded in negativity?
Some of you folks are really reaching. Not sure why the hell you are but whever floats your boat I suppose.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Comments
Hey, if you didn't like the betas, that's a shame for you. But just because you didn't like it doesn't mean everyone else is going to hate it too.
You know, I agree to an extent with the OP. He might have some anger issues and is probably judgemental and a bit pretentious but whatever, it's as about as bad as the fanboy's screaming about how perfect the game is, when it clearly also has it's issues.
Things like the way the character run and moves are preferences, they don't make the game hard to play or ruin the gameplay.
Mashing buttons in a particular order happens in every MMO as previous posters have noted. Its a basic formula that you can't get away from and if you think about it isn't even restricted to MMO gameplay. Every PC game is like this to some extent.
There is nothing new here, it is just another flavor of the same type of game all of us love - some more than others - just because you like chocolate ice cream doesn't mean that every other ice cream lover will - and it doesn't mean they're idiots for not liking it.
Maybe if you approached the post with a little less detest and a bit more objectively if would've influenced more people the way you wanted.
I know what you mean though and it's a big problem with most of the games that have come out lately. Almost all of the skills in Rift are only combat related, this is supposed to be fantasy right? Why can't we levitate our group, turn into wolves and haul ass across 3 zones at 50 feet? I think many dev's have forgotten what true fantasy is and I miss the imagination that went into some of the early MMO's like EQ, where race and class made a big difference in the tactics for the group and gameplay.
Your first sentence made me feel all warm and fuzzy....you know, like someone really understands the way I feel. I'm pretty much at the level of thinking a puppy LINE UP is in order.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Bla bla bla.......
Dislikes?
Go play pokemon!
I am starting to love threads like this.
Would be funny if we could lock and bar the gate then just stand on the walls taunting them as they try and get in.
I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries. You don't frighten us, Blizzard pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called 'World of Warcraft,' you and all your silly WoW Fa-n boi-s.
Tribute to the great Monty Python
I love how some people think that they are in a position to tell the rest of the players what is fun and what is not.
I think Dave Chappele is hilarious, my GF think's that he's retarded, fun is subjective and the fact that you belive otherwise is pretty pathetic.
I work 10 hours a day, I plan on playing Rift to relax whenever my GF or my kids arent on my back, and some random stranger who doesnt like the game arent going to convince anyone not to play it.
It's like me telling the world that Mcdonalds food is terrible and that they could make their own hamburgers for half the price, but it's not gonna change anyones craving for Mcdonalds, and shouldnt.
Rift is not mediocre at all. It's the best mmo I played since Lotro. But it brings nothing new on the table for sure.
Because those millions of subscriptions are backed up by a yearly revenue of ... $ 1.6 billion dollars per year (2010), published on 09 Feb 2011. The Wow part was 1.425 billion. Less than 10% comes from the China mainland.
----- > Those figures are published publicly in conjuction with independant third controllers, like the Deutsche Bank and it is called an audited financial report for the stock holders.
To compare : EVE makes around 50 million each year.
DCUO's combat is different.
DCUO is also an action MMO designed as a console beat'em up. Not really a good guideline as to how combat should be in your general MMORPG. It's strictly a preference
I find it funny that players that have been here longer than I have that have been quiet for years come out just to bash this game. Mediocre hmmm? Maybe. Attention getting? Yep.
Indeed.. And that's what MMOs are missing these days... Worlds.
Now, to those who read things literally, understand that yes, I realize games like Rifts and WoW and WAR have "worlds". But the design of them is very "game driven". Things are placed deliberately in this spot or that to serve as the playfield of a game. You could call that the "funneling" effect, or the "rails" effect, or the "connect the quest hubs" effect... whatever it is you may have seen it referred to. "Game worlds" are designed to be played through in a very linear and deliberate fashion.
Virtual Worlds on the other hand are those, like Vanguard, and Darkfall, FFXI, Asheron's Call 2 (RIP), Istaria (Horizons), Ryzom and, from what I've read (not personal experience) apparently Mortal Online. While they will share *some* elements with their more linear counterparts, Virtual World MMOs do not guide you by the hand, they do not funnel you along a pre-set path and everything in the world is not conveniently in a "logical order of progression", with clearly marked roads and arrows always pointing you in the "right direction". The "right direction", of course, being the one the designers intend you to go in at that particular point.
At most, in a virtual world MMO, the new-player experience may be like that... but that's where it ends. After a point, you are "broken in" and ready to head off on your own, seek your own direction, make your own choices, set your own priorities and forge your own path. In a "game world" however, that sense of being directed and told where to go never really ends. It lasts all the way to end game.
I've only touched on the world design aspect of "Virtual World" MMOs versus "Game World" MMOs... and even then, only on the surface. It's a much more involved topic than that, and to be sure, Virtual Worlds are much deeper than just their world design.
All that said... one isn't "better" than the other. It really boils down to what you're looking for in a game. Just seems that these days, the "Game World" type MMOs are much better represented, leaving those of us who enjoy a more virtual world setting a bit wanting.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
This is going offtopic, but I'm curious: in those revenues, aren't the sales of SC2 and CATA included in those numbers? On a sidenote, my guess is more than half of the subs is situated in China where they have a different way of counting subs than subs in the west.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm not sure why a developer with cash hasn't come along and realized that putting a lot of money into a sandbox MMORPG could be really profitable.
They keep trying to mimic WoW because WoW is so popular, but they don't recognize the popularity of games like second life and the Sims.
Once someone adds combat and objectives to a game like second life, and puts a lot of money and has some talent behind it, that will be the next big MMO.
I'm sure some developer somewhere has actually thought of this.
The problem is convincing the people with the deep pockets that this idea isn't as risky as it actually is.
I'm pretty convinced that Trion is pushing this themepark more-of-the-same MMO out the doors to prove themselves as a company. Once they do that, investors would be more willing to fund a game that is more risky.
If Blizzard wanted to make a sandbox MMO, they would have the funds, easily. But they won't because it would compete directly with their cashcow.
.. But in a good way.
players bashes all new mmorpgs. maybe because they don't have money to buy the game... Players always bashing wow clones but they never play or want sandbox games or mid sandbox games. I played Vanguard, I was alone. I Played Roma Victor I was completely alone. I was alone even on TCOS. Most areas of Lotro are empty. I'm beta testing GnH i am alone... Played SWG I was alone, etc etc etc...
So... Where are the players ? On world of warcraft. They play Wow and they bash Rift ? Funny.
To the bashers: CYA on Rift. I m beta testing GnH, I was on RV, I was on VG, I'll be on RIft. Because it's the best game I played since Lotro. (Played and BT lot of MMORPGS : from T4C to Rift)
Here is one guy's point of view:
I was that guy who refused to watch the movie Titanic because everyone told me I had to see it. When I finally watched it years later I realized what I had missed - what an incredible movie!
When World of Warcraft came out I was stuck in EQ mode and refused to give the game a try. I will never know what I missed there as I had only tried a brief 7 day trial years ago.
Sometimes folks just need to fight what's popular. No one wants to think they are like sheep, following the herd. So here we go, this game seems to be very popular among folks before launch. So expect the nay-sayers to strut their stuff, spewing anti-popular slogans at the masses. Its only human.
It sounds like the issues mentioned in this thread are the same issues you can whine about in every MMO out there. Every MMO I have played involves getting to know the abiltiies of your character and then utiliizing the best sequence over and over on mobs. At least having to do 1,2,3,4,5,3,4,etc. is better than other games that are 1,2,2,2,1,2,2,2, etc.
I would like to fight the mobs too, but I don't want to miss out on the opportunity to play with and meet alot of gamers in a new MMO environment. MMO's best feature is the massively multiplayer part, so since it appears alot of folks will be showing up at the party I will be there too.
And like I learned from Titanic, usually the popular opinion is the correct one.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
It is off topic (as someone questioned the 12 M subs) , but just to clarify, SC2 sales are not included in the $1.4 billion dollars total.
Blizzard had a 1.6 billion dollar yearly revenue in 2010; Up from 1.2 billion in 2009....(cfr Activison Blizzard Feb 2011 report with a seperate sheet for Blizzard revenue).
If that isn't telling, than I guess nothing is.
The WOW part grew from 1.15 to 1.425 billion, but yes that one included all box WOW sales too.
SC2 accounted for around $150 million. It is telling that SC2 only came to around 10% of what WOW brings in every year.
Back to topics/: to topple this is impossible in any future, unless you drive to a complete other gaming genre, and even "excellent" instead of "mediocre" is still not going anywhere.
I want to comment on the "set skill rotation, rinse and repeat" criticism from the OP.
It's an MMORPG and most titles have this problem, to some degree. The thing about Rift is that there are character builds that are a lot more situational and reactive, if that is what you are looking for. Take some personal responsibility, rather than blaming the game because it allowed you to build a "boring in combat" character.
In general for MMORPGs, I really don't see what the solution is for this. Most games that have attempted to make combat more dynamic have done so by greatly reducing the number of skills, while making things more reactive or adding combos (which themselves are just repetative combinations of key strokes).
I'm just glad that Rift allows players so much control over their character builds as it is very possible to more finely tune your character to your playstyle than in most other titles.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Agree with OP
Wrong.
Trammies need to stop polluting the MMORPG landscape. They already have enough games in which to emote hugs and sell garbage by the banks.
Rift is shrouded in negativity. Nuff said.
Wtf are some of you smoking? Shrouded in negativity?
Some of you folks are really reaching. Not sure why the hell you are but whever floats your boat I suppose.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.