Rift actually isn't that small. It seems small because you can just teleport to whatever zone you want. If you travel from northwestern Stillmoor (over by GSB) all the way to the Elites in Droughtland, it's a fair distance even on a 110% mount. It's not as big as FFXI or VG, but it's not small.
It is small relative to most of the other mmorgs mentioned in this thread.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
This may hae been posted on a seperate page, but you guys really haven't played Uncharted Waters Online much, have you?
The map proves that the game's title is wrong.
Lol
And nope, can't say that I played it. But can all the land on the map be traveled? And another question, how long does it take to cross in a straight line from 1 coast to another coast? Because then comparisons could be made based upon travel times.
Originally posted by Gyrus
I was interested to see the Vanguard data here - since I have been playing the trial for the last couple of days.
By my estimates it would take 7minutes and 20 seconds to cross each 'chunk' based on my trial runs on the Isle of Dawn.
So the scale given by MMO.Maverick pretty good.
Thanks, and nice one: I'm guessing the 7 minutes 20 seconds is pure crossing time, crossing a square in a straight line without any hindrances?
Vanguard is still very large compared to other new MMO's, but I'm actually impressed with the enormous sizes of Dereth and Agon. That's quite some landmass to explore.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Rift actually isn't that small. It seems small because you can just teleport to whatever zone you want. If you travel from northwestern Stillmoor (over by GSB) all the way to the Elites in Droughtland, it's a fair distance even on a 110% mount. It's not as big as FFXI or VG, but it's not small.
Rift is tiny. I think even Aion is bigger, even if you only include one faction. It's still an MMO and sure, that means it might feel huge compared to Dragon Age II or something, but I can't think of any major MMO I've played that was smaller than Telara. If it weren't for all the impassable terrain that breaks it up, I think it'd be more indisputable.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
This may hae been posted on a seperate page, but you guys really haven't played Uncharted Waters Online much, have you?
The map proves that the game's title is wrong.
Lol
And nope, can't say that I played it. But can all the land on the map be traveled? And another question, how long does it take to cross in a straight line from 1 coast to another coast? Because then comparisons could be made based upon travel times.
Originally posted by Gyrus
I was interested to see the Vanguard data here - since I have been playing the trial for the last couple of days.
By my estimates it would take 7minutes and 20 seconds to cross each 'chunk' based on my trial runs on the Isle of Dawn.
So the scale given by MMO.Maverick pretty good.
Thanks, and nice one: I'm guessing the 7 minutes 20 seconds is pure crossing time, crossing a square in a straight line without any hindrances?
Vanguard is still very large compared to other new MMO's, but I'm actually impressed with the enormous sizes of Dereth and Agon. That's quite some landmass to explore.
Comparec to new mmo lol,Vanguard is large compared to old MMO with very few exceptions and is at least on par.
As for crossing the trail island in 7 mins,lol you can compared that to the real world of Vanguard.
This may hae been posted on a seperate page, but you guys really haven't played Uncharted Waters Online much, have you?
The map proves that the game's title is wrong.
Lol
And nope, can't say that I played it. But can all the land on the map be traveled? And another question, how long does it take to cross in a straight line from 1 coast to another coast? Because then comparisons could be made based upon travel times.
Haven't played long enough to tell the exact time between all the landmasses. That little speck of distance between London and Amsterdam can take about 5 minutes though. Yes, you can spend days in real life port-hopping your way across the oceans.
Other MMOs I've played consider it a long way if it takes you a couple hours to walk. This one can almost be measured in days...
As for crossing the trail island in 7 mins,lol you can compared that to the real world of Vanguard.
? He didn't say that, he said a 'chunk' with which he refers to a square I presume. A square is 1.5 miles wide, so crossing that in 7min 20 seconds doesn't sound that odd.
Especially considering that it takes about 15-17 minutes to cross Kalimdor from west to east coast when done in a straight line unhindered.
Originally posted by ArcheAge
As you can see here,i can run right across the sea to each Island with a levitation spell.
Vanguard trumps GW2 and most other MMO,in fact i would only put EQ1 and perhaps EVE up against it.
Forget GW2,it really isn't on the scale of Vanguard.
Hmm, I still plan to do an extensive worldsize comparison with all the MMO worlds laid out in one large map, as soon as I got most of the MMO's (still need Aion and FE worldsizes and some others).
But a page or 2 back in this thread, I showed some large size worlds together, it looks like AC's Dereth and DF's Anon are pretty vast as well. SWG's planets are quite large too, they'd certainly hold up to VG's continents.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ok, I finally did some digging and testing into Everquest worldsizes.
Some trivia:
- it takes as long to cross the zone of West Karana in a straight line as it takes to cross Kalimdor from east to west coast, or from Michel Delving in LotrO's The SHire to the Forsaken Inn in the Lone Lands or from the Forsaken Inn to Rivendell as the crow flies.
- the crossing distance of all the zones between Qeynos and Freeport in Antonica taken together is about 1 hour. That is, measured from east to west border in a straight horizontal line for each zone. Which means it'll take longer than 1 hour to travel from Freeport's harbor to Qeynos at normal run speed.
As far as zoned worlds can be compared to seamless worlds, when taking the sizes of EQ zones into account, this is how EQ's continent Antonica would compare with WoW's Kalimdor in size:
wow i keep forgetting EQOA and eq maps are exactly the same tho eqoa had another continent that you had to boat to? wasn't big at all don't think it even had any coaches. (arcadia i think it was called?). i do remember it taking like 1.5 hours to run from Freeport to Highpass. i take it the place on that map called high hold is or use to be called high pass?(eqoa comes 500 years before eq in the time line) don't see klick'anon on that map either it was north west from neriak and was the gnome starter town.
here is a link to an EQOA map it was very large specially for a ps2 game.
As for crossing the trail island in 7 mins,lol you can compared that to the real world of Vanguard.
? He didn't say that, he said a 'chunk' with which he refers to a square I presume. A square is 1.5 miles wide, so crossing that in 7min 20 seconds doesn't sound that odd.
Especially considering that it takes about 15-17 minutes to cross Kalimdor from west to east coast when done in a straight line unhindered.
Originally posted by ArcheAge
As you can see here,i can run right across the sea to each Island with a levitation spell.
Vanguard trumps GW2 and most other MMO,in fact i would only put EQ1 and perhaps EVE up against it.
Forget GW2,it really isn't on the scale of Vanguard.
Hmm, I still plan to do an extensive worldsize comparison with all the MMO worlds laid out in one large map, as soon as I got most of the MMO's (still need Aion and FE worldsizes and some others).
But a page or 2 back in this thread, I showed some large size worlds together, it looks like AC's Dereth and DF's Anon are pretty vast as well. SWG's planets are quite large too, they'd certainly hold up to VG's continents.
MMO.Maverick is correct.
7 minutes and 20 seconds for a 'chunk' (which is a square) in a straight line - unhindered.
In fact - what I did was half a square in 3 minutes and 40 seconds because I couldn't cross the entire Isle of Dawn chunk anywhere without having to swim or fight - which would have slowed me down.
(and I was dissappointed to run up against invisible walls too - at the edge of that chunk)
And for those of you who are just posting maps... please read the thread.
For example - Uncharted Waters Online - it's all very well to post a map, but it means little because somewhere that world will be scaled. I used a similar example with Pirates of the Burning Sea. In that case, it can be easily shown that worlds which are supposedly smaller are actually far bigger. In fact Pirates of the Burning Sea is one of the smallest MMOs out there despite covering a huge (real world) area. Why? The travel times / speeds are scaled.
This is why I disagree with MMO.Maverick about using real world measurements (miles / kilometres) in any way. All it does is add confusion to the argument.
In the case of games like Vanguard it may seem bigger - but actually take a stopwatch and compare it. It seems bigger because of the content. Not that this is a bad thing at all - if anything it shows that the designers showed a considerable amount of skill in designing the world. For what it's worth - Vanguard looks like it may be about the same size as Lord of the Rings Online which also seems to be a vast world when you play it.
And yes... WWIIoL is far bigger than both games combined.
EDIT: Can anyone provide any data on Fallen Earth? That's one I would be interested to see. Please don't post a Map... we need travel times.
And we need a proper test / re-run of Darkfall - again no guesses please.... use a stopwatch.
This is why I disagree with MMO.Maverick about using real world measurements (miles / kilometres) in any way. All it does is add confusion to the argument.
In the case of games like Vanguard it may seem bigger - but actually take a stopwatch and compare it. It seems bigger because of the content. Not that this is a bad thing at all - if anything it shows that the designers showed a considerable amount of skill in designing the world. For what it's worth - Vanguard looks like it may be about the same size as Lord of the Rings Online which also seems to be a vast world when you play it.
EDIT: Can anyone provide any data on Fallen Earth? That's one I would be interested to see. Please don't post a Map... we need travel times.
And we need a proper test / re-run of Darkfall - again no guesses please.... use a stopwatch.
Heh, yeah, I guess the measurements will stay a point of debate, I'd like to be able to measure in both ways, crossing time as well as ingame miles.
LotrO, when you look at the concrete explorable areas and not the whole Middle Earth map, is actually smaller than you might expect. For example, considering your travel times it would take about 1h15minutes to travel as a crow flies from east coast to west coast of Thestra, while it takes about 45 minutes to travel from Ered Luin's Celondim to Rivendell as a crow flies. That isn't even completely correct, because as you see here, there's a chunk of area missing between the Shire and Ered Luin. Traveling in a bird's straight line from Michel Delving in the Shire to Rivendell is 36 minutes.
As for Fallen Earth, the information is still fuzzy. So far I could find that Fallen Earth is apparently 1000square kilometer large and this information:
3. Give us an idea of how long it would take to travel from one section of the ingame world to another, so that we can figure out a rough idea of how large the world is by the time it takes to get somewhere instead of a world size.
Time to Travel Across (on foot):
The Plateau: 2 hours north to south
Northfields: 1.5 hours east to west
Kaibab Forest: 2 hours north to south
Grainway: 2.5 hours north to south
Siller's Canyon: 2 hours north to south, but that's very deceptive as there are so many canyons and such you can't travel as the crow flies, or even as the drunken crow flies. It'd probably be more like 4 hours.
If you find something better, feel free to post it here.
Btw, I got that Darkfall map picture where you can see how large it is compared with Kalimdor from one of your threads, reading the replies I was under the impression that the person who made it did some solid measuring and testing for it. That isn't the case?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Heh, yeah, I guess the measurements will stay a point of debate, I'd like to be able to measure in both ways, crossing time as well as ingame miles.
Yeah. I ditched them because it really was a case of one step forward and two steps back. You start making progress and then a new poster will show up and say "That's wrong! The map given in <blah blah> shows that it is <xxxxx miles> which is ten times what you say... and you have to begin explaining again.
LotrO, when you look at the concrete explorable areas and not the whole Middle Earth map, is actually smaller than you might expect. For example, considering your travel times it would take about 1h15minutes to travel as a crow flies from east coast to west coast of Thestra, while it takes about 45 minutes to travel from Ered Luin's Celondim to Rivendell as a crow flies. That isn't even completely correct, because as you see here, there's a chunk of area missing between the Shire and Ered Luin. Traveling in a bird's straight line from Michel Delving in the Shire to Rivendell is 36 minutes.
True. But there is also Moria and Lothlorien and Mirkwood further east of Rivendell (With Isengard on the way). I have that content - but I haven't managed to get there to see for myself yet. The difficulty too is that people forget that to get a fair mesurement they have to run unbuffed or, where that is not possible (for the higher ranked areas) to run with as few buffs as possible.
I also don't count 'missing' bits of land as between Ered Luin and the Shire. As you say... people start including that too.
As for Fallen Earth, the information is still fuzzy. So far I could find that Fallen Earth is apparently 1000square kilometer large and this information:
...
Time to Travel Across (on foot):
The Plateau: 2 hours north to south
Northfields: 1.5 hours east to west
Kaibab Forest: 2 hours north to south
Grainway: 2.5 hours north to south
Siller's Canyon: 2 hours north to south, but that's very deceptive as there are so many canyons and such you can't travel as the crow flies, or even as the drunken crow flies. It'd probably be more like 4 hours.
...
Btw, I got that Darkfall map picture where you can see how large it is compared with Kalimdor from one of your threads, reading the replies I was under the impression that the person who made it did some solid measuring and testing for it. That isn't the case?
In the case of Darkfall, Fallen Earth and EvE I consider all data to be based on the best information available - but still unconfirmed.
One of the things I have found with this is there are lots of players who will tell you you are 'wrong' but when it comes to actually taking a stopwatch and doing an actual measurement... it's really hard to find people willing to do that. Which is kind of wierd really when you think about the hundreds of people who play these games and the fact they will spend hours worrying about stats and buffs and calculating DPS... yet no-one owns a stopwatch?
In the case of Darkfall, that information was supplied during Beta. Beta data is something I never really trust 100%.
In the case of Fallen Earth, I saw similar data from a Dev IIRC? Devs always talk their game up - and i was never convinced he meant 'uninterupted'.
In the case of EvE, "about 4 hours" is about the best I have and that information is quite old now. I don't really trust anything with "about" in it. It's right up there with "huge", "massive" and "bigger". It suggests to me a rough (inaccurate or haphazzard) measurement or a source from a random Dev quote.
I like measurements that say "From A to B, under these conditions (Character race, level & class) in Hours:Minutes:Seconds." That is the sort of data that gives me some confidence that the player has actually measured the distance rather than just had a rough stab in the dark.
To me, the best type of data is stuff that can be repeated and confirmed.
For example - your LotRO measurements. FWIW about the time you posted them I also did my own measurements and confirmed yours to within 5 minutes. That's what we need really. Because it's harder to dispute measurements made and confirmed by many different people.
I like measurements that say "From A to B, under these conditions (Character race, level & class) in Hours:Minutes:Seconds." That is the sort of data that gives me some confidence that the player has actually measured the distance rather than just had a rough stab in the dark.
To me, the best type of data is stuff that can be repeated and confirmed.
For example - your LotRO measurements. FWIW about the time you posted them I also did my own measurements and confirmed yours to within 5 minutes. That's what we need really. Because it's harder to dispute measurements made and confirmed by many different people.
True. Well, for the sake of completeness and doublecheck, here's things that I tested myself not that long ago:
LotrO: its maps uses a coordinates system, traveling 10 coordinate points either E-W or N-S amounts to 5min15sec. From there everything else follows or can be tested.
EQ: uses a loc/coordinates system as well. 1 minute traveling in a straight line traverses 1760-1800 coordinate points
Rift: the same, using its coordinates system you'll find that 300 coordinate points can be travelled in 60 seconds.
And these are derived from available footage and calculating:
GW2: based upon the stretch of 1 avenue that's crossed in 19 seconds, the diameter of the human capital is 1m57s to 2min.
SWTOR: 1 map square on Tython's map takes 30 seconds to cross
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ok, I finally did some digging and testing into Everquest worldsizes.
Some trivia:
- it takes as long to cross the zone of West Karana in a straight line as it takes to cross Kalimdor from east to west coast, or from Michel Delving in LotrO's The SHire to the Forsaken Inn in the Lone Lands or from the Forsaken Inn to Rivendell as the crow flies.
- the crossing distance of all the zones between Qeynos and Freeport in Antonica taken together is about 1 hour. That is, measured from east to west border in a straight horizontal line for each zone. Which means it'll take longer than 1 hour to travel from Freeport's harbor to Qeynos at normal run speed.
As far as zoned worlds can be compared to seamless worlds, when taking the sizes of EQ zones into account, this is how EQ's continent Antonica would compare with WoW's Kalimdor in size:
wow i keep forgetting EQOA and eq maps are exactly the same tho eqoa had another continent that you had to boat to? wasn't big at all don't think it even had any coaches. (arcadia i think it was called?). i do remember it taking like 1.5 hours to run from Freeport to Highpass. i take it the place on that map called high hold is or use to be called high pass?(eqoa comes 500 years before eq in the time line) don't see klick'anon on that map either it was north west from neriak and was the gnome starter town.
here is a link to an EQOA map it was very large specially for a ps2 game.
There are two areas one on each side of that landmass, the one to the right was faydwer thats where the gnomes, (they lived in aka'non in original EQ) dwarves, high elf and wood elf started, on the left was Odus, which is where the erudites started (both good and evil) of course thats all before kunark and everything which added kunark, velious and all the other places. But for this discussion only antonica was used as a reference point.
Yes High hold is still to my knowledge highpass hold. It was most likely shortened for this map. At least it was this way when i played it a lot near 2000, no idea what they've done with it now.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Someone mentioned WWII Online above, and I'd point out, anicdotally, that I had driven tanks from two towns behind the front lines and it took upwards of half an hour. Considering the entire battlefield to be roughly 50 towns 'wide', it would take you on the order of 10 hours to cross the map -- driving. Walking? Forget it. Quite literally it would take you days to cross virtual Europe.
Someone mentioned WWII Online above, and I'd point out, anicdotally, that I had driven tanks from two towns behind the front lines and it took upwards of half an hour. Considering the entire battlefield to be roughly 50 towns 'wide', it would take you on the order of 10 hours to cross the map -- driving. Walking? Forget it. Quite literally it would take you days to cross virtual Europe.
If you ask for what world has the best bang for its size I'd say Vanguard BTW: It was the only game where I had this unique PnP feeling of being a wandering adventurer travelling from town to town doing quests, crafting, looking for secrets (which were actually there, compared to worlds like SWG where there was room for housing and NPCs, but no meaningful PvE content)
If you ask for what world has the best bang for its size I'd say Vanguard BTW: It was the only game where I had this unique PnP feeling of being a wandering adventurer travelling from town to town doing quests, crafting, looking for secrets (which were actually there, compared to worlds like SWG where there was room for housing and NPCs, but no meaningful PvE content)
M
I have been thinking about how to relate size to content in all this?
But it doesn't really work because of the variation in games.
WWIIoL for example has no 'content' - but offers some awesome WWII style PvP.
Vanguard, LotRO, WoW and others offer lots of content - but it depends on what you like?
If you don't like killing mobs, for example, that really changes the value of the 'content' in many games.
As for Fallen Earth, the information is still fuzzy. So far I could find that Fallen Earth is apparently 1000square kilometer large and this information:
...
Time to Travel Across (on foot):
The Plateau: 2 hours north to south
Northfields: 1.5 hours east to west
Kaibab Forest: 2 hours north to south
Grainway: 2.5 hours north to south
Siller's Canyon: 2 hours north to south, but that's very deceptive as there are so many canyons and such you can't travel as the crow flies, or even as the drunken crow flies. It'd probably be more like 4 hours.
...
In the case of Fallen Earth, I saw similar data from a Dev IIRC? Devs always talk their game up - and i was never convinced he meant 'uninterupted'.
FWIW I just found a link to my info about Fallen Earth
Can you add the estimated size of the PLAYABLE areas to your OP?
Some of the data is extremely misleading. F.e. comparing the GW maps to WoW makes GW seem much bigger, but the playable area of each map is maybe the size of Kalimdor. Both maps have large areas that are simply water.
For in game reasons I once swam completely around the Eastern Continent in WOW staying close to shore of course. It took a little over 30 min at swim speed, no boosts or buffs. My char was high enough that there were no encounters etc..to slow me down. This was pre cata if that makes any difference. Just thought I would throw that in there. Cross country include winding pathways (to avoid impassible/invisible barriers), encounters, deviations from mountainous terrain as well as up and down hills and valleys. Not sure how any measurement could be anything but approximation.
Perhaps it would be just how big it seems to you, each individual. Virtual size? Data storage, art assets, programming parameters, time and money. Start up a game company anyone?
Comments
This may hae been posted on a seperate page, but you guys really haven't played Uncharted Waters Online much, have you?
The map proves that the game's title is wrong.
It is small relative to most of the other mmorgs mentioned in this thread.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Lol
And nope, can't say that I played it. But can all the land on the map be traveled? And another question, how long does it take to cross in a straight line from 1 coast to another coast? Because then comparisons could be made based upon travel times.
Thanks, and nice one: I'm guessing the 7 minutes 20 seconds is pure crossing time, crossing a square in a straight line without any hindrances?
Vanguard is still very large compared to other new MMO's, but I'm actually impressed with the enormous sizes of Dereth and Agon. That's quite some landmass to explore.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Rift is tiny. I think even Aion is bigger, even if you only include one faction. It's still an MMO and sure, that means it might feel huge compared to Dragon Age II or something, but I can't think of any major MMO I've played that was smaller than Telara. If it weren't for all the impassable terrain that breaks it up, I think it'd be more indisputable.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Comparec to new mmo lol,Vanguard is large compared to old MMO with very few exceptions and is at least on par.
As for crossing the trail island in 7 mins,lol you can compared that to the real world of Vanguard.
Qalia..
http://vanguard.gamepressure.com/qalia_map.asp
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm
Thestra
http://vanguard.gamepressure.com/thestra_map.asp
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm
Kojani..
http://vanguard.gamepressure.com/kojan_map.asp
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm
As you can see here,i can run right across the sea to each Island with a levitation spell.
Vanguard trumps GW2 and most other MMO,in fact i would only put EQ1 and perhaps EVE up against it.
Forget GW2,it really isn't on the scale of Vanguard.
I am sure that each square is 2.5sq mile,ill find the link.
http://vanguard.gamepressure.com/world_of_telon_map.asp
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm
Haven't played long enough to tell the exact time between all the landmasses. That little speck of distance between London and Amsterdam can take about 5 minutes though. Yes, you can spend days in real life port-hopping your way across the oceans.
Other MMOs I've played consider it a long way if it takes you a couple hours to walk. This one can almost be measured in days...
? He didn't say that, he said a 'chunk' with which he refers to a square I presume. A square is 1.5 miles wide, so crossing that in 7min 20 seconds doesn't sound that odd.
Especially considering that it takes about 15-17 minutes to cross Kalimdor from west to east coast when done in a straight line unhindered.
Hmm, I still plan to do an extensive worldsize comparison with all the MMO worlds laid out in one large map, as soon as I got most of the MMO's (still need Aion and FE worldsizes and some others).
But a page or 2 back in this thread, I showed some large size worlds together, it looks like AC's Dereth and DF's Anon are pretty vast as well. SWG's planets are quite large too, they'd certainly hold up to VG's continents.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Isnt WW2 online landmass bigger than all these others?
wow i keep forgetting EQOA and eq maps are exactly the same tho eqoa had another continent that you had to boat to? wasn't big at all don't think it even had any coaches. (arcadia i think it was called?). i do remember it taking like 1.5 hours to run from Freeport to Highpass. i take it the place on that map called high hold is or use to be called high pass?(eqoa comes 500 years before eq in the time line) don't see klick'anon on that map either it was north west from neriak and was the gnome starter town.
here is a link to an EQOA map it was very large specially for a ps2 game.
http://www.teamjosh.com/EQOA/mapWorldMap65.jpg
MMO.Maverick is correct.
7 minutes and 20 seconds for a 'chunk' (which is a square) in a straight line - unhindered.
In fact - what I did was half a square in 3 minutes and 40 seconds because I couldn't cross the entire Isle of Dawn chunk anywhere without having to swim or fight - which would have slowed me down.
(and I was dissappointed to run up against invisible walls too - at the edge of that chunk)
And for those of you who are just posting maps... please read the thread.
For example - Uncharted Waters Online - it's all very well to post a map, but it means little because somewhere that world will be scaled. I used a similar example with Pirates of the Burning Sea. In that case, it can be easily shown that worlds which are supposedly smaller are actually far bigger. In fact Pirates of the Burning Sea is one of the smallest MMOs out there despite covering a huge (real world) area. Why? The travel times / speeds are scaled.
This is why I disagree with MMO.Maverick about using real world measurements (miles / kilometres) in any way. All it does is add confusion to the argument.
In the case of games like Vanguard it may seem bigger - but actually take a stopwatch and compare it. It seems bigger because of the content. Not that this is a bad thing at all - if anything it shows that the designers showed a considerable amount of skill in designing the world. For what it's worth - Vanguard looks like it may be about the same size as Lord of the Rings Online which also seems to be a vast world when you play it.
And yes... WWIIoL is far bigger than both games combined.
EDIT: Can anyone provide any data on Fallen Earth? That's one I would be interested to see. Please don't post a Map... we need travel times.
And we need a proper test / re-run of Darkfall - again no guesses please.... use a stopwatch.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Heh, yeah, I guess the measurements will stay a point of debate, I'd like to be able to measure in both ways, crossing time as well as ingame miles.
LotrO, when you look at the concrete explorable areas and not the whole Middle Earth map, is actually smaller than you might expect. For example, considering your travel times it would take about 1h15minutes to travel as a crow flies from east coast to west coast of Thestra, while it takes about 45 minutes to travel from Ered Luin's Celondim to Rivendell as a crow flies. That isn't even completely correct, because as you see here, there's a chunk of area missing between the Shire and Ered Luin. Traveling in a bird's straight line from Michel Delving in the Shire to Rivendell is 36 minutes.
As for Fallen Earth, the information is still fuzzy. So far I could find that Fallen Earth is apparently 1000square kilometer large and this information:
3. Give us an idea of how long it would take to travel from one section of the ingame world to another, so that we can figure out a rough idea of how large the world is by the time it takes to get somewhere instead of a world size.
Time to Travel Across (on foot):
The Plateau: 2 hours north to south
Northfields: 1.5 hours east to west
Kaibab Forest: 2 hours north to south
Grainway: 2.5 hours north to south
Siller's Canyon: 2 hours north to south, but that's very deceptive as there are so many canyons and such you can't travel as the crow flies, or even as the drunken crow flies. It'd probably be more like 4 hours.
If you find something better, feel free to post it here.
Btw, I got that Darkfall map picture where you can see how large it is compared with Kalimdor from one of your threads, reading the replies I was under the impression that the person who made it did some solid measuring and testing for it. That isn't the case?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Heh, yeah, I guess the measurements will stay a point of debate, I'd like to be able to measure in both ways, crossing time as well as ingame miles.
Yeah. I ditched them because it really was a case of one step forward and two steps back. You start making progress and then a new poster will show up and say "That's wrong! The map given in <blah blah> shows that it is <xxxxx miles> which is ten times what you say... and you have to begin explaining again.
LotrO, when you look at the concrete explorable areas and not the whole Middle Earth map, is actually smaller than you might expect. For example, considering your travel times it would take about 1h15minutes to travel as a crow flies from east coast to west coast of Thestra, while it takes about 45 minutes to travel from Ered Luin's Celondim to Rivendell as a crow flies. That isn't even completely correct, because as you see here, there's a chunk of area missing between the Shire and Ered Luin. Traveling in a bird's straight line from Michel Delving in the Shire to Rivendell is 36 minutes.
True. But there is also Moria and Lothlorien and Mirkwood further east of Rivendell (With Isengard on the way). I have that content - but I haven't managed to get there to see for myself yet. The difficulty too is that people forget that to get a fair mesurement they have to run unbuffed or, where that is not possible (for the higher ranked areas) to run with as few buffs as possible.
I also don't count 'missing' bits of land as between Ered Luin and the Shire. As you say... people start including that too.
As for Fallen Earth, the information is still fuzzy. So far I could find that Fallen Earth is apparently 1000square kilometer large and this information:
...
Time to Travel Across (on foot):
The Plateau: 2 hours north to south
Northfields: 1.5 hours east to west
Kaibab Forest: 2 hours north to south
Grainway: 2.5 hours north to south
Siller's Canyon: 2 hours north to south, but that's very deceptive as there are so many canyons and such you can't travel as the crow flies, or even as the drunken crow flies. It'd probably be more like 4 hours.
...
Btw, I got that Darkfall map picture where you can see how large it is compared with Kalimdor from one of your threads, reading the replies I was under the impression that the person who made it did some solid measuring and testing for it. That isn't the case?
In the case of Darkfall, Fallen Earth and EvE I consider all data to be based on the best information available - but still unconfirmed.
One of the things I have found with this is there are lots of players who will tell you you are 'wrong' but when it comes to actually taking a stopwatch and doing an actual measurement... it's really hard to find people willing to do that. Which is kind of wierd really when you think about the hundreds of people who play these games and the fact they will spend hours worrying about stats and buffs and calculating DPS... yet no-one owns a stopwatch?
In the case of Darkfall, that information was supplied during Beta. Beta data is something I never really trust 100%.
In the case of Fallen Earth, I saw similar data from a Dev IIRC? Devs always talk their game up - and i was never convinced he meant 'uninterupted'.
In the case of EvE, "about 4 hours" is about the best I have and that information is quite old now. I don't really trust anything with "about" in it. It's right up there with "huge", "massive" and "bigger". It suggests to me a rough (inaccurate or haphazzard) measurement or a source from a random Dev quote.
I like measurements that say "From A to B, under these conditions (Character race, level & class) in Hours:Minutes:Seconds." That is the sort of data that gives me some confidence that the player has actually measured the distance rather than just had a rough stab in the dark.
To me, the best type of data is stuff that can be repeated and confirmed.
For example - your LotRO measurements. FWIW about the time you posted them I also did my own measurements and confirmed yours to within 5 minutes. That's what we need really. Because it's harder to dispute measurements made and confirmed by many different people.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
True. Well, for the sake of completeness and doublecheck, here's things that I tested myself not that long ago:
LotrO: its maps uses a coordinates system, traveling 10 coordinate points either E-W or N-S amounts to 5min15sec. From there everything else follows or can be tested.
EQ: uses a loc/coordinates system as well. 1 minute traveling in a straight line traverses 1760-1800 coordinate points
Rift: the same, using its coordinates system you'll find that 300 coordinate points can be travelled in 60 seconds.
And these are derived from available footage and calculating:
GW2: based upon the stretch of 1 avenue that's crossed in 19 seconds, the diameter of the human capital is 1m57s to 2min.
SWTOR: 1 map square on Tython's map takes 30 seconds to cross
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There are two areas one on each side of that landmass, the one to the right was faydwer thats where the gnomes, (they lived in aka'non in original EQ) dwarves, high elf and wood elf started, on the left was Odus, which is where the erudites started (both good and evil) of course thats all before kunark and everything which added kunark, velious and all the other places. But for this discussion only antonica was used as a reference point.
Yes High hold is still to my knowledge highpass hold. It was most likely shortened for this map. At least it was this way when i played it a lot near 2000, no idea what they've done with it now.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Someone mentioned WWII Online above, and I'd point out, anicdotally, that I had driven tanks from two towns behind the front lines and it took upwards of half an hour. Considering the entire battlefield to be roughly 50 towns 'wide', it would take you on the order of 10 hours to cross the map -- driving. Walking? Forget it. Quite literally it would take you days to cross virtual Europe.
Nope.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2589606#2589606
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4171003#4171003
22 and 3/4 hours. (for the developed part of the map - see linked posts above)
And, one of the cool ideas I has once for intermission was to have a grand rally around europe in those little red sports cars (only on test server)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bGNOyfBsgY
I did a few test runs and figured it would take about 8 hours to cross the map in one of those IIRC?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
If you ask for what world has the best bang for its size I'd say Vanguard BTW: It was the only game where I had this unique PnP feeling of being a wandering adventurer travelling from town to town doing quests, crafting, looking for secrets (which were actually there, compared to worlds like SWG where there was room for housing and NPCs, but no meaningful PvE content)
M
I have been thinking about how to relate size to content in all this?
But it doesn't really work because of the variation in games.
WWIIoL for example has no 'content' - but offers some awesome WWII style PvP.
Vanguard, LotRO, WoW and others offer lots of content - but it depends on what you like?
If you don't like killing mobs, for example, that really changes the value of the 'content' in many games.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
FWIW I just found a link to my info about Fallen Earth
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3212520#3212520
Note that the original link to the Dev info no longer works.
And, as you see in the linked post, it seems like the travel times quoted were not based on unhindered travel.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Can you add the estimated size of the PLAYABLE areas to your OP?
Some of the data is extremely misleading. F.e. comparing the GW maps to WoW makes GW seem much bigger, but the playable area of each map is maybe the size of Kalimdor. Both maps have large areas that are simply water.
Hype train -> Reality
For in game reasons I once swam completely around the Eastern Continent in WOW staying close to shore of course. It took a little over 30 min at swim speed, no boosts or buffs. My char was high enough that there were no encounters etc..to slow me down. This was pre cata if that makes any difference. Just thought I would throw that in there. Cross country include winding pathways (to avoid impassible/invisible barriers), encounters, deviations from mountainous terrain as well as up and down hills and valleys. Not sure how any measurement could be anything but approximation.
Perhaps it would be just how big it seems to you, each individual. Virtual size? Data storage, art assets, programming parameters, time and money. Start up a game company anyone?