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Few things that hinders the fun factor

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Comments

  • MetentsoMetentso Member UncommonPosts: 1,437

    MMOs after SWTOR will be even more simplified, so take what you have now and try to have fun.

  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980

    Originally posted by Metentso

    MMOs after SWTOR will be even more simplified, so take what you have now and try to have fun.

    Not sure TOR is/will be the culprit still we are indeed seeing some simplification in the genre.

    /

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by Deewe

    Originally posted by Metentso

    MMOs after SWTOR will be even more simplified, so take what you have now and try to have fun.

    Not sure TOR is/will be the culprit still we are indeed seeing some simplification in the genre.

    /

     I have to agree with Deewe here, but the simplification started a while back when the 800 pound gorilla was released on the market.  That's about six years or so ago if I remember right.  Still though, simplification does not have to mean less fun and in some games could indeed mean more fun for more people instead of the niche groups of people playing those games now.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • chriselchrisel Member UncommonPosts: 990

     Excellent post by OP! I totally agree.

     Game has potential as the MMO world is litterally screaming for a new AAA game to be released. Yet Bioware dumb this game down, and on top they implete stupid looking toons that could easily have fit into WoW. A very very VERY bad move. I want to play a Sci-Fi, not a retarded version Sci-Fi version of WoW. I am also shocked to see that the biggest PvP zone will only be holding 8 vs 8. This surely must be a joke since that is even fewer that you have in any FPS game today.

     It seems the game failed already before it's launched. I lost totally interestd in this game a long long time ago. I popped in to see if there "could" be any new that interested me. It was'nt.

    .

     

     Thank you for posting this. Now back to Anarchy Online.

    Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!

  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472

    Originally posted by chrisel

     Excellent post by OP! I totally agree.

     Game has potential as the MMO world is litterally screaming for a new AAA game to be released. Yet Bioware dumb this game down, and on top they implete stupid looking toons that could easily have fit into WoW. A very very VERY bad move. I want to play a Sci-Fi, not a retarded version Sci-Fi version of WoW. I am also shocked to see that the biggest PvP zone will only be holding 8 vs 8. This surely must be a joke since that is even fewer that you have in any FPS game today.

     It seems the game failed already before it's launched. I lost totally interestd in this game a long long time ago. I popped in to see if there "could" be any new that interested me. It was'nt.

    .

     

     Thank you for posting this. Now back to Anarchy Online.

     For red:

    Opinion, theres a lot that has been done for this game in my opinion that hasn't been done much in other games. Such as really big worlds. No auto attack.  multimob fighting.  But your entitled to your opinion

    For Yellow:

    Again your opinion. They has the feel of it because it's the art style they are using, but to each their own.

    For Green:

    That 8 vs 8 is for one battle ground (one), and is the first one you'll come across.  For now it's too hard to say it's the biggest when they have more on the way.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by Deewe

     


    No Advanced Classes respec


    No multiplayer space combat, PvE & PvP wise


    Very short space combat scenarios: 2-8 minutes only


    No fighter type small space ships


    No choice of space ships chassis


    No planetary housing (instanced or not)


    Maybe not even guild halls


    No day/night cycles



    [edit:  init 6 <  thread]


     


    It's SW, made by BioWare ==> should be awesome.


     


    However, not very fond of:


     


    1) Graphics:

     


    2) Restrictions

    • "Required" companions for PvP, PUGs and RAIDs.

      • James Ohlen: "Right now we are assuming that you are using your companion character. If you don’t use your companion you will be at a big disadvantage because all the DPS that your companion would be doing isn’t going to be there. So there is no point to not bring your companion character, unless you want to challenge yourself by not bringing him around."

    • No Advanced Classes respec (Said theymight consider it at a point)

    • Not choice for space ship chassis as based on character class and certainly only one chassis per class.

    • No non humanoid playable races

      • Daniel Erickson: "Namely that lead characters in an RPG must be something the player can relate to. There has never been a movie or major Star Wars series with a complete freak job as the lead and that's because dramatically it doesn't work. We don't understand what it means to be a giant lizard or a droid or a walking ball of jelly. We love the weird characters but they are always the sidekicks, not the emotional connection in the movie. To do an RPG that way every NPC you ran into would have to react to you depending on their own cultural bias and the entire "into the strange" adventure that is Star Wars would be lost as you would be the strangest thing in the room. "

    • Gear vs look struggle:


      • James Ohlen: "you're gonna find some pants that don't match your current stuff but it's better so for the people who really are like trying to max up their statistics they are going to put thoses in ... you're gonna have the player who waits because they care more about what they look like then you know the statistics"



      • No gear dyes, at best class limited color palette. Based on the fact that each class has iconic color palette (same for planets)




    • Twin syndrome for companions as no body customization for them.

      • Alex Freed: Can customize companion via equipment similar to Mass Effect

      •  


    3) Alternative game play only for space content


    • Very short space combat scenarios: 2-8 minutes only 

    • No fighter type small space ships

    • No multiplayer space combat, PvE & PvP wise

    • Ref: PC Gamer

    •  


    4) PvP

    • PvP specific gear (more mess to manage and gear to grind)

    • Maybe no companion less Warzones.

    • So far only 8 vs. 8 players zones

     


    5) Lack of things that could have been fun

    • No animal based pet classes... unless #1 #2

    • No display pets, seen none so far... but above?

    • No planetary housing, instanced or not. (Would be glad to be wrong)

      • Maybe not even guild halls

    • No day/night cycles (Based on the fact that each planet has a specific mood achieved through music and color palette)

      • Jeff Dobson: More significantly, where the planet of Korriban is in a perpetual sunset, Tython is lit with the colors of morning. This choice to light each planet with a particular time of day implies something about the optimism of the Jedi and the end of hope for the Sith.

    • No player bounties ;)

      • Bit after the forum launch they said when a feature can be unfun for one of the parties involved it has no place in a BioWare game. Plus there's no equivalent to the BH class on the republic side.

     


    The game will be polished for sure, maybe not as much as WoW is now. But it feels very restricted at this point.


     


     


    ==> You best source of information on TOR is  here, kudo's to TheDarkKnight


    Agreed, agreed and agreed.

    It all bothers me just as well. A lot.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,401

    I would just like to lol at the stuff that is unknown and being compained about.  That's the best to complain about. The stuff you don't know.

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by Swanea

    I would just like to lol at the stuff that is unknown and being compained about.  That's the best to complain about. The stuff you don't know.

     Good point Swanea, very good point.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980

    Originally posted by Swanea

    I would just like to lol at the stuff that is unknown and being compained about.  That's the best to complain about. The stuff you don't know.

    It's very easy to write such a sentence pointing at nothing specifically. May I say that contrary to you I do have links, more than one in my OP.

    I would find it very interesting (and would be much happy) if you could prove I'm wrong on a such scale as you seems to suggest.  So how about taking all my entries and posting a link next to each of them why I'm wrong using official statements?

    Wait... don't bother I know you can't.

  • IsaneIsane Member UncommonPosts: 2,630

    Originally posted by Deewe

    Originally posted by Metentso

    MMOs after SWTOR will be even more simplified, so take what you have now and try to have fun.

    Not sure TOR is/will be the culprit still we are indeed seeing some simplification in the genre.

    /

    There is no evidence that SWTOR is simplifying anything. Other games have already caused the damage.

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • IsaneIsane Member UncommonPosts: 2,630

    Originally posted by Deewe

    Originally posted by Swanea

    I would just like to lol at the stuff that is unknown and being compained about.  That's the best to complain about. The stuff you don't know.

    It's very easy to write such a sentence pointing at nothing specifically. May I say that contrary to you I do have links, more than one in my OP.

    I would find it very interesting (and would be much happy) if you could prove I'm wrong on a such scale as you seems to suggest.  So how about taking all my entries and posting a link next to each of them why I'm wrong using official statements?

    Wait... don't bother I know you can't.

    There is no context to most of your points , some may be valid but have little relevance and impact unless your main interest is focusing on anything that may not be in game or does not fit your utopian vision. i.e focusing on what the game is not . Not what it is.

    The focusing on "Not what it is" is amusing to say the least but adds no real value.

    Bioware and Lucas Arts have their vision and I for one like it, a shame they have a solid design and appear to be consistently sticking to what they see as right. I like this approach but you obviously don't. A shame you will have to play the game with all these so called deficiencies how will you cope?

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980

    Originally posted by Isane

    Originally posted by Deewe


    Originally posted by Swanea

    I would just like to lol at the stuff that is unknown and being compained about.  That's the best to complain about. The stuff you don't know.

    It's very easy to write such a sentence pointing at nothing specifically. May I say that contrary to you I do have links, more than one in my OP.

    I would find it very interesting (and would be much happy) if you could prove I'm wrong on a such scale as you seems to suggest.  So how about taking all my entries and posting a link next to each of them why I'm wrong using official statements?

    Wait... don't bother I know you can't.

    There is no context to most of your points , some may be valid but have little relevance and impact unless your main interest is focusing on anything that may not be in game or does not fit your utopian vision. i.e focusing on what the game is not . Not what it is.

    The focusing on "Not what it is" is amusing to say the least but adds no real value.

    Bioware and Lucas Arts have their vision and I for one like it, a shame they have a solid design and appear to be consistently sticking to what they see as right. I like this approach but you obviously don't. A shame you will have to play the game with all these so called deficiencies how will you cope?

    The OP is already pretty long, now if I'd have to put them in context it would make it quite huge don't you think?

     

    I don't think I'm that focusing on "not what is". Mind to provide examples because I guess I can turn around each of my sentences you would pinpoint. eg, we can agree saying :I see bloodelves can be read 2 ways.

     

    I'm glad you are a perfect match for TOR you will certainly play the game longer than I. And yes a shame they took some of their decisions especially the ones tied to the character's graphics down to the epic space shooter.

  • AgathuAgathu Member UncommonPosts: 39

    Originally posted by Deewe

    The OP is already pretty long, now if I'd have to put them in context it would make it quite huge don't you think?

     

    I don't think I'm that focusing on "not what is". Mind to provide examples because I guess I can turn around each of my sentences you would pinpoint. eg, we can agree saying :I see bloodelves can be read 2 ways.

     

    I'm glad you are a perfect match for TOR you will certainly play the game longer than I. And yes a shame they took some of their decisions especially the ones tied to the character's graphics down to the epic space shooter.

    Personally I like the looks of the game and the character graphics. The space combat I'll wait to try before making up my mind, but it would have been nice if it was at least 3D in the scripted areas.

    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
    Herm Albright
    (1876 - 1944)

  • MetentsoMetentso Member UncommonPosts: 1,437

    Originally posted by Isane

    Originally posted by Deewe


    Originally posted by Metentso

    MMOs after SWTOR will be even more simplified, so take what you have now and try to have fun.

    Not sure TOR is/will be the culprit still we are indeed seeing some simplification in the genre.

    /

    There is no evidence that SWTOR is simplifying anything. Other games have already caused the damage.

     

    Thats what i mean, SWTOR is just a step on a tendency that started years ago and won't stop now. So we better enjoy what we have now, because next MMOs will be even more simplified.

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Member Posts: 1,832

    Originally posted by Deewe

     


    No Advanced Classes respec


    No multiplayer space combat, PvE & PvP wise


    Very short space combat scenarios: 2-8 minutes only


    No fighter type small space ships


    No choice of space ships chassis


    No planetary housing (instanced or not)


    Maybe not even guild halls


    No day/night cycles



    [edit:  init 6 <  thread]


     


    It's SW, made by BioWare ==> should be awesome.


     


    However, not very fond of:


     


    1) Graphics:

     


    2) Restrictions

    • "Required" companions for PvP, PUGs and RAIDs.

      • James Ohlen: "Right now we are assuming that you are using your companion character. If you don’t use your companion you will be at a big disadvantage because all the DPS that your companion would be doing isn’t going to be there. So there is no point to not bring your companion character, unless you want to challenge yourself by not bringing him around."

    • No Advanced Classes respec (Said theymight consider it at a point)

    • Not choice for space ship chassis as based on character class and certainly only one chassis per class.

    • No non humanoid playable races

      • Daniel Erickson: "Namely that lead characters in an RPG must be something the player can relate to. There has never been a movie or major Star Wars series with a complete freak job as the lead and that's because dramatically it doesn't work. We don't understand what it means to be a giant lizard or a droid or a walking ball of jelly. We love the weird characters but they are always the sidekicks, not the emotional connection in the movie. To do an RPG that way every NPC you ran into would have to react to you depending on their own cultural bias and the entire "into the strange" adventure that is Star Wars would be lost as you would be the strangest thing in the room. "

    • Gear vs look struggle:


      • James Ohlen: "you're gonna find some pants that don't match your current stuff but it's better so for the people who really are like trying to max up their statistics they are going to put thoses in ... you're gonna have the player who waits because they care more about what they look like then you know the statistics"



      • No gear dyes, at best class limited color palette. Based on the fact that each class has iconic color palette (same for planets)




    • Twin syndrome for companions as no body customization for them.

      • Alex Freed: Can customize companion via equipment similar to Mass Effect

      •  


    3) Alternative game play only for space content


    • Very short space combat scenarios: 2-8 minutes only 

    • No fighter type small space ships

    • No multiplayer space combat, PvE & PvP wise

    • Ref: PC Gamer

    •  


    4) PvP

    • PvP specific gear (more mess to manage and gear to grind)

    • Maybe no companion less Warzones.

    • So far only 8 vs. 8 players zones

     


    5) Lack of things that could have been fun

    • No animal based pet classes... unless #1 #2

    • No display pets, seen none so far... but above?

    • No planetary housing, instanced or not. (Would be glad to be wrong)

      • Maybe not even guild halls

    • No day/night cycles (Based on the fact that each planet has a specific mood achieved through music and color palette)

      • Jeff Dobson: More significantly, where the planet of Korriban is in a perpetual sunset, Tython is lit with the colors of morning. This choice to light each planet with a particular time of day implies something about the optimism of the Jedi and the end of hope for the Sith.

    • No player bounties ;)

      • Bit after the forum launch they said when a feature can be unfun for one of the parties involved it has no place in a BioWare game. Plus there's no equivalent to the BH class on the republic side.

     


    The game will be polished for sure, maybe not as much as WoW is now. But it feels very restricted at this point.


     


     


    ==> You best source of information on TOR is  here, kudo's to TheDarkKnight


    Yeah, I really dislike much of the direction they decided for this game myself. Fortunately for me, I have no particular love for the Star Wars IP, so there is a decent chance of me finding a Sci-Fi game more suited to my tastes in future. Bottom line is the game feels way more restrictive then I would enjoy as well.

    Bioware does have it's share of fans for it's approach....so hopefully they'll get a good quality game they can enjoy. Personaly, I'm taking a look at what else is looming on the horizon.

  • IsaneIsane Member UncommonPosts: 2,630

    Originally posted by Deewe

    Originally posted by Isane


    Originally posted by Deewe


    Originally posted by Swanea

    I would just like to lol at the stuff that is unknown and being compained about.  That's the best to complain about. The stuff you don't know.

    It's very easy to write such a sentence pointing at nothing specifically. May I say that contrary to you I do have links, more than one in my OP.

    I would find it very interesting (and would be much happy) if you could prove I'm wrong on a such scale as you seems to suggest.  So how about taking all my entries and posting a link next to each of them why I'm wrong using official statements?

    Wait... don't bother I know you can't.

    There is no context to most of your points , some may be valid but have little relevance and impact unless your main interest is focusing on anything that may not be in game or does not fit your utopian vision. i.e focusing on what the game is not . Not what it is.

    The focusing on "Not what it is" is amusing to say the least but adds no real value.

    Bioware and Lucas Arts have their vision and I for one like it, a shame they have a solid design and appear to be consistently sticking to what they see as right. I like this approach but you obviously don't. A shame you will have to play the game with all these so called deficiencies how will you cope?

    The OP is already pretty long, now if I'd have to put them in context it would make it quite huge don't you think?

     

    I don't think I'm that focusing on "not what is". Mind to provide examples because I guess I can turn around each of my sentences you would pinpoint. eg, we can agree saying :I see bloodelves can be read 2 ways.

     

    I'm glad you are a perfect match for TOR you will certainly play the game longer than I. And yes a shame they took some of their decisions especially the ones tied to the character's graphics down to the epic space shooter.

    The context just makes it easier to identify any relevance, I for one can be bothered articulating something that means nothing. I will have a look again over the weekend if i get mindlessly bored.

    To be honest I wish they had left the shooter out altogether until something decent can be put in place.

    That said they can always replace the on rails version and I am not sure anyone would complain. Space combat not even on my radar so if anything it will just annoy that they even bothered.

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    I think the OP makes quite a few valid points, and its not like he's exagerating the issues at all,  if anything he's just stating in simple terms,  what the source material explains in detail, while im no fan of the games graphic style, its bearable, but, despite the fact its a bioware game, why do they feel the need to add companions to every game they do, it just doesnt fit with MMO's, i dont like the idea that you have to manage a bunch of npc's in order to get anything done.. having to have npc's should have been strictly optional, making them an integral part of the game... i just don't see what part of that is a good idea, though obviously it will suit solo gamers just perfectly..  as for the 8v8 pvp... that can't be right surely..  which kind of begs the question,  how many people can a non social hub area support without phasing? although i might be assuming too much in that there is such a thing...  is this an MMO.. or a single player oline game with grouping?  image

  • Jimmy562Jimmy562 Member UncommonPosts: 1,158

    Originally posted by whilan

    Originally posted by chrisel

     Excellent post by OP! I totally agree.

     Game has potential as the MMO world is litterally screaming for a new AAA game to be released. Yet Bioware dumb this game down, and on top they implete stupid looking toons that could easily have fit into WoW. A very very VERY bad move. I want to play a Sci-Fi, not a retarded version Sci-Fi version of WoW. I am also shocked to see that the biggest PvP zone will only be holding 8 vs 8. This surely must be a joke since that is even fewer that you have in any FPS game today.

     It seems the game failed already before it's launched. I lost totally interestd in this game a long long time ago. I popped in to see if there "could" be any new that interested me. It was'nt.

    .

     

     Thank you for posting this. Now back to Anarchy Online.

     For red:

    Opinion, theres a lot that has been done for this game in my opinion that hasn't been done much in other games. Such as really big worlds. No auto attack.  multimob fighting.  But your entitled to your opinion

    For Yellow:

    Again your opinion. They has the feel of it because it's the art style they are using, but to each their own.

    For Green:

    That 8 vs 8 is for one battle ground (one), and is the first one you'll come across.  For now it's too hard to say it's the biggest when they have more on the way.

    Pretty certain i've read that 8v8 is definitly NOT the largest. Could be wrong but still they have open world PvP and small warzones tend to be a nice break from the madness of open world pvp.

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by Phry

    I think the OP makes quite a few valid points, and its not like he's exagerating the issues at all,  if anything he's just stating in simple terms,  what the source material explains in detail, while im no fan of the games graphic style, its bearable, but, despite the fact its a bioware game, why do they feel the need to add companions to every game they do, it just doesnt fit with MMO's, i dont like the idea that you have to manage a bunch of npc's in order to get anything done.. having to have npc's should have been strictly optional, making them an integral part of the game... i just don't see what part of that is a good idea, though obviously it will suit solo gamers just perfectly..  as for the 8v8 pvp... that can't be right surely..  which kind of begs the question,  how many people can a non social hub area support without phasing? although i might be assuming too much in that there is such a thing...  is this an MMO.. or a single player oline game with grouping?  image

         The problem with over simplifying things is the same problem you have with exxagerating things, you distort the truth.  The OP did a lot of distorting in order to prove his points. 

        Any legitimate person making the claims he does would only site the most current information, but as can be seen in several posts he has made in other threads, he doesn't do that.  In fact in one thread he claimed that "Heroic Proportions" was a problem in this game and showed a very old picture to prove that a characters hands were too big.  Unfortunately, two pictures down showed a newer shot of the same character with "normal" sized hands.  Yet when shown his own "proof" he sticks to his guns and keeps whining about all these supposed problems.

        He also has a tendency to edit other peoples posts when he replies to them so that he can more easily prove his point, but the stuff he edits out directly disproves his posts.  All in all, I would not trust anything he says unless I can find his "Proof" myself and then I would check the date on it to see how old it is.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980

    Originally posted by Isane

     

    The context just makes it easier to identify any relevance, I for one can be bothered articulating something that means nothing. I will have a look again over the weekend if i get mindlessly bored.

    To be honest I wish they had left the shooter out altogether until something decent can be put in place.

    That said they can always replace the on rails version and I am not sure anyone would complain. Space combat not even on my radar so if anything it will just annoy that they even bothered.

    You are right it's easier but I guess the links I provided, while not perfect, do help to get a good idea. However without playing the game it's quite difficult to assess how much each of these elements will weight in the FUN factor.

     

    I'd say most space sims fans would rather wait for a real 3d version than this, and as you're saying too, others don't really care about it at all whatever form it takes.

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