all I'm saying Bioware is a name, probably cant go wrong with any game they make, on the other hand Trion worlds (nice name btw) going left and right shouting about next gen and paying mmorpg.com to post as much articles as possible... my choice here is obvious
We'll see when it comes to releasing that one hmm?
It's stupid to go all paranoia over these things when devs are just being enthusiastic about the game they are making, you can hardly expect them to go all doom&gloom over their own project.
Nor does Rift deserve that, it's a decent game so far.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
This was not supposed to be anything that broke away from the mold dramatically, though many here made it seem like that.
The CEO, Les Buttler himself made teh mistake by press-releasing and hyping this game as next generation, revolutionary, which it isn't. Its an amalgamation, as WAR was an amalgamation. The "many" (people) you refer to here didnt begin this charade.
didnt convince me, rift is getting much more hype than it is supposed to. End of story.
Compared to SWTOR and GW2 not even close. End of Story.
So a game is good just because the other games are advertising more? Wow... just wow man...
Who said that? people read what they just want to read.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
This was not supposed to be anything that broke away from the mold dramatically, though many here made it seem like that.
The CEO, Les Buttler himself made teh mistake by press-releasing and hyping this game as next generation, revolutionary, which it isn't. Its an amalgamation, as WAR was an amalgamation. The "many" (people) you refer to here didnt begin this charade.
until this post of yours I never had an idea they said such things, if its true, why does Bill Murphey state absolutely the opposite in his article? I dont get it... unless as I mentioned above, they are getting paid in ransom for this ... then it makes perfect sense. So my advice: stay the hell away from this game if you dont want to burn your money on another clone...
didnt convince me, rift is getting much more hype than it is supposed to. End of story.
Compared to SWTOR and GW2 not even close. End of Story.
So a game is good just because the other games are advertising more? Wow... just wow man...
What are you talking about? who said anything about any game being good or bad? i am just talking about your flawed logic behind advertising. When a game is new it gets more attention as simple as that, it will die down in few months. ,Same will happen with GW2 and SWTOR or any other hyped game.
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl When you're in a restaurant and you receive a steak that is too dry for your taste, you shouldn't expect it to somehow absorb the excess moisture coming from your trap while screaming and kicking at the waiter and cook. Saying it is too dry for your taste is fine, going all ballistic over something like that isn't going to help.
When I see people screaming and kicking at the direction of Rift, I can't help but figure that they will be disappointed again and again for a long time in the future. They expect a revolution, they will get a steady evolution. If you can't accept that you'll be disappointed continually and find yourself a bitter old gamerdude at one point, still longing for a revolution to some meaningless ideal when the genre has moved on in its own direction long ago.
That is not to say a lot of stuff in Rift doesn't need improvement, it just won't go the way those people want it to go.
If that restaurant customer THOUGHT he had ordered a steak, and the waiter deliverd fish, even if it was VERY good fish, it wasn't what the customer was expecting and that can be quite upsetting. Now, this was a beta test, we were testers, NOT paying customers...stil it wasn't what many people had been led to expect.
This is the part that baffles me; in bold for emphasis. I too saw the words, "Next Gen", but since I didn't see anything that defined, "Next Gen", I skipped it as marketing hype. When I saw the description of crafting, with no details, I skipped it as marketing hype. Then I saw the rest of the description and the beta pretty much fit that description.
I hate to say it, but as consumers, it's up to us to filter out the hype from the information. Trion did a much better job than most on delivering information with the hype, but the hype is still there. I think it always will be. Buyer Beware and all that. Except we're not even buying anything.
If you don't like the game, fine, but don't take your own ideas of what the game should have been, the ideas that Trion never mentioned to you* and act like they told you those things were going to be there and then didn't deliver.
* 'You' in this post does not mean MacDeath or Fdzzaigl in particular. It's just that this particular post chain sparked my response.
Also - Merry Christmas Eve everyone! Less than 24 hours 'til Christmas! Well, probably less than 16 for some parents with early rising children. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
This was not supposed to be anything that broke away from the mold dramatically, though many here made it seem like that.
The CEO, Les Buttler himself made teh mistake by press-releasing and hyping this game as next generation, revolutionary, which it isn't. Its an amalgamation, as WAR was an amalgamation. The "many" (people) you refer to here didnt begin this charade.
Are we going to start this discussion yet again? yes game is next gen in terms of the technology behind it and the way dynamic events are handled. Does that provide a next gen 'gaming experince' for playes? indeed.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
This was not supposed to be anything that broke away from the mold dramatically, though many here made it seem like that.
The CEO, Les Buttler himself made teh mistake by press-releasing and hyping this game as next generation, revolutionary, which it isn't. Its an amalgamation, as WAR was an amalgamation. The "many" (people) you refer to here didnt begin this charade.
until this post of yours I never had an idea they said such things, if its true, why does Bill Murphey state absolutely the opposite in his article? I dont get it... unless as I mentioned above, they are getting paid in ransom for this ... then it makes perfect sense. So my advice: stay the hell away from this game if you dont want to burn your money on another clone...
Because Les was fishing for funding, and the consequences is this; a whole host of sites posting his bloviating and potential subscribers calling him on it and using his 'spin' talk to get mistakenly overly interested in the game, only to be disappointed that there isnt much next-gen about it. It is a fun amalgamation, and has the potential to garner more attention than mostmmo'sin the past 6-years, but Trion has left themselves just as open to criticism because of it.
People need to lower their expectations and realize that Rift is but a mixture, a merger or "amalgamation" of basic features from other mainstream mmo's, packaged into one. But at the same time, aren't the rest? Anyway, the class system is more similar to or another amalgamation of WoW anyway; the soul system is pulled from WoW, though in Rift, you "equip" the talent tree you wish to use. PQ's are not static as they are in WA, but pulled from WAR none-the-less, and the list goes on.
Trion has the potential to enhance the current crop of mmo features into one game that is more complete than most in the past 6-years, I think;not "next-generation".
This was not supposed to be anything that broke away from the mold dramatically, though many here made it seem like that.
The CEO, Les Buttler himself made teh mistake by press-releasing and hyping this game as next generation, revolutionary, which it isn't. Its an amalgamation, as WAR was an amalgamation. The "many" (people) you refer to here didnt begin this charade.
until this post of yours I never had an idea they said such things, if its true, why does Bill Murphey state absolutely the opposite in his article? I dont get it... unless as I mentioned above, they are getting paid in ransom for this ... then it makes perfect sense. So my advice: stay the hell away from this game if you dont want to burn your money on another clone...
Because Les was fishing for funding, and the consequences is this; a whole host of sites posting his bloviating and potential subscribers calling him on it and using his 'spin' talk to get mistakenly overly interested in the game, only to be disappointed that there isnt much next-gen about it. It is a fun amalgamation, and has the potential to garner more attention than mostmmo'sin the past 6-years, but Trion has left themselves just as open to criticism because of it.
People need to lower their expectations and realize that Rift is but a mixture, a merger or "amalgamation" of basic features from other mainstream mmo's, packaged into one. But at the same time, aren't the rest? Anyway, the class system is more similar to or another amalgamation of WoW anyway; the soul system is pulled from WoW, though in Rift, you "equip" the talent tree you wish to use. PQ's are not static as they are in WA, but pulled from WAR none-the-less, and the list goes on.
Trion has the potential to enhance the current crop of mmo features into one game that is more complete than most in the past 6-years, I think;not "next-generation".
So according to you next gen has only one meaning and one interpretation? isn't the tech behind RIFT and the way it can hold hundered of players online without crashing the servers is not next gen enough? i mean what the hell it is just a CB and look how optimized the game is and puts released games like WAR and AOC to shame. There is still room for improvement and optimization will be done further but how is this not next gen?
let me guess because others didn't interpret next gen like you did so they are wrong.
This was not supposed to be anything that broke away from the mold dramatically, though many here made it seem like that.
The CEO, Les Buttler himself made teh mistake by press-releasing and hyping this game as next generation, revolutionary, which it isn't. Its an amalgamation, as WAR was an amalgamation. The "many" (people) you refer to here didnt begin this charade.
until this post of yours I never had an idea they said such things, if its true, why does Bill Murphey state absolutely the opposite in his article? I dont get it... unless as I mentioned above, they are getting paid in ransom for this ... then it makes perfect sense. So my advice: stay the hell away from this game if you dont want to burn your money on another clone...
Because Les was fishing for funding, and the consequences is this; a whole host of sites posting his bloviating and potential subscribers calling him on it and using his 'spin' talk to get mistakenly overly interested in the game, only to be disappointed that there isnt much next-gen about it. It is a fun amalgamation, and has the potential to garner more attention than mostmmo'sin the past 6-years, but Trion has left themselves just as open to criticism because of it.
People need to lower their expectations and realize that Rift is but a mixture, a merger or "amalgamation" of basic features from other mainstream mmo's, packaged into one. But at the same time, aren't the rest? Anyway, the class system is more similar to or another amalgamation of WoW anyway; the soul system is pulled from WoW, though in Rift, you "equip" the talent tree you wish to use. PQ's are not static as they are in WA, but pulled from WAR none-the-less, and the list goes on.
Trion has the potential to enhance the current crop of mmo features into one game that is more complete than most in the past 6-years, I think;not "next-generation".
So according to you next gen has only one meaning and one interpretation? isn't the tech behind RIFT and the way it can hold hundered of players online without crashing the servers is not next gen enough? i mean what the hell it is just a CB and look how optimized the game is and puts released games like WAR and AOC to shame. There is still room for improvement and optimization will be done further but how is this not next gen?
And according to you, your looking for more, to expand upon a definition to presuade someone that something isnt what itt is. Thats ok. There will always be 2-3-4 opposing points of view, and Im ok with that. But dont think that your point of view is "the" one either. I dont consider non-crashing servers playing into next-gen;I consider that doing their "job" when promoting a 'massively-multiplayer' platform.
"But do you honestly think that the folks at Trion did their marketing research and said “There really isn’t anybody who wants this kind of game… let’s make it anyway.”"
I know Trion is doing market research;I participated in it. There "is" a market for Rift, just has there is still a market for LotRO, EQ, EQ2, WAR, etc.
"But do you honestly think that the folks at Trion did their marketing research and said “There really isn’t anybody who wants this kind of game… let’s make it anyway.”"
Why not?
That's how SOE pushed through the NGE on SWG.
You're wrong, probably because you're bitter. SOE went after WoW's success (just like Trion is doing now), they probably calculated the whole thing out as much as possible. Companies like SOE dont make irrational or emotional decisions, trust me.
"Next generation means an mmo that will advance the genre the day it ships."
- Rift Video
Maybe that's why some people expected more.
In this video, where this quote is coming from, it becomes clear that their thoughts are that the rift mechanics are 'next gen' and advancing the genre. Which in a way they are a step forward: the rifts overrule the initial content of the area where they pop up, and reshape the look of it and on the routes they create when they invade. And this isn't hard coded included in the script for a specific area as you see with phasing in WoW or DE's in GW2.
So in this way, rifts overruling local content for a while dynamically and the way changes to this system can be made on the fly without a server restart, that could be considered 'next gen', ie the next following step in MMO features, dynamically changing content.
I think that the misunderstanding happens that when hearing 'next gen', people think revolutionary changes, while 'next gen' could also be evolutionary changes, gradual next steps in the progress of MMO mechanics and the MMO genre.
Even more, evolutionary changes are what has been the case in MMO game progression (or any game genre progression, for that matter, shooter, rts, etc), not revolutionary.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And according to you, your looking for more, to expand upon a definition to presuade someone that something isnt what itt is. Thats ok. There will always be 2-3-4 opposing points of view, and Im ok with that. But dont think that your point of view is "the" one either. I dont consider non-crashing servers playing into next-gen;I consider that doing their "job" when promoting a 'massively-multiplayer' platform.
Are you sure i am the one trying to persuade people here into believing something else? if you cared to read properly i never said you are wrong infact what i am saying is that you think that only your interpretation is right one.
Hey i am not the one going around telling people that Trion deliberately mislead the players into believing that 'next gen' was in term of gameplay alone. if you think there are 2, 3 or even more opposing points of view why are you going around pointing fingers at Trion for something they never meant? you only do that when you are sure about your own interpretation. Sorry but i smell very foul smell of double standard here.
As far as thei job. the whole damn MMO is their job which also includes making good use of next gen technology to provide stable servers and at the same time make it possible for 500 players and 100's of spawned mob to fight at one place. Every little improvement which pushes the limits of MMO whether its gameplay mechanics or just over all game engine is next gen.
You just can't cherry pick what you like and label it as next gen and ignore the rest.
What some people (cyphers) cant understand is just because we were mislead by things were told of how the game would be doesn't mean we're 'burned out'. But he doesn't want to address the real discussion and instead post the same thing over and over. Selective reading i guess.
Ah, here we go: ad hominem argumentation and insulting other posters out of the blue just to make your point.
Weak, but I'm not really surprised. Yep, I've stated that some complainers are in my eyes clearly suffering from burnout, but certainly not all, and also a lot of times that there's nothing wrong with if people dislike (or like) a game since tastes and opinions differ. Regarding the discussion of disappointment and misguided expectations, I've commented on that quite a lot of times too. You must have missed those. Selective reading, I guess.
I'm not entitled to respond on every single argument and post that people make. After all, you seem to be skipping most of my statements as well, only picking those you can start fights over, thus taking things even farther into the negative.
Originally posted by Zeroxin
He doesn't see your point. Simple as that.
I am a man of low-expectations and a very high ww-factor gauge and I can tell you that even though I feel your pain, it was partly your own fault for listening to the hype of a designer who wants you to buy his game. But then again its good that you played it or learnt before buying it that its not what you expected because then you can temper your expectations and probably learn to like it for what it is.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Let's see if I have this straight. So you think people have no right to be disappointed in the game because they didn't interpret "next-gen" as referring only to the technology that Trion was using? I think that's a stretch to say the least.
"to provide an unprecedented level of quality and engagement to player experiences in premium next generation MMOs"
So lets see Rifts are not engaging enough? the whole idea of dynamic event is not engaging enough? the soul system and ability to design your character any way you like is not engaging enough?
"Though building the Trion platform was an essential step in becoming a publisher of next generation, dynamic MMOs, the tech itself is not our primary focus" hmmmm, really?
The tech maybe not the primary focus but it doesn't mean it is not important. They are focusing on next gen dynamic MMOS..why didn't you underline the dynamic part? let me guess it didn't suit your argument right?
"We believe great online games should be dynamic and highly social services - living worlds, so to speak - not static products"
"Technology is only a means to an end. Breakthrough tools can be very expensive and extremely hard to build, and are probably only exciting to technical professionals. But the value of your tool only reaches its potential when used by talented people to create something empowering and inspiring."
The ability of game to allow hundreds of player to participate in huge PVE events is quite inspiring isn't it? the way changes can be implemented to server without restarting it is quite inspiring and this game has opened way for other MMOS to provide large scale PVE and PVP based content. i would say that is empowering. This game has made it possible all this without using instances/shards which seperates the player base. How is that not inspiring?
Etcetera, etcetera. See I can play this little pick the key words from the interviews game too.
I have yet to see an article that says "Hey, we're not going to try to do anything new here. Same old same old. Only thing next gen about our game is the technology and the fact that we are pushing data from the server instead of delivering patches". If one exists, then I stand corrected and admit I am wrong.
Have they failed to do anything new at all? nope. they provided us with dynamic content and soul system which may not be something that will revolutionise the MMO genre but it is still something new and different. I think players were expecting some kind of revolution when they heard word next gen. A game can be next gen with just one feature as long as it brings something new to MMO genre.
I think it's fair to say that MMO customers expect all new games to try and do SOMETHING new and different from their predecessors, expand upon the premise a little. Sorry but I find it ridiculous to tell the community they have no right to be disappointed because a game offers nothing new or exciting and we should have known that if only we had interpreted the press releases/interviews/marketing bs correctly.
The personal attacks and jabs at writer for giving his opinion well... it is not even worth my time to reply to this nonsense.
And according to you, your looking for more, to expand upon a definition to presuade someone that something isnt what itt is. Thats ok. There will always be 2-3-4 opposing points of view, and Im ok with that. But dont think that your point of view is "the" one either. I dont consider non-crashing servers playing into next-gen;I consider that doing their "job" when promoting a 'massively-multiplayer' platform.
Are you sure i am the one trying to persuade people here into believing something else? if you cared to read properly i never said you are wrong infact what i am saying is that you think that only your interpretation is right one.
No, I said everyone has an opinion and there are 2,3,4 opinions on the same subject, as there should be, and I'm ok with that. However, now I have this experience of someone over-looking that in an attempt to draw an linear line to my opinion about Rift being more of an amalgamation than next-genertaion, that Trion has the potential to enhance the current crop of mmo features into one game that is more complete than most in the past 6-years, that I dont think that because they can keep their servers up and be stable on launch, that to me that isnt synonimous with "next' generation". Just like someone trying to convince me that when I buy a car, the wheels wont come off when I'm 10-miles down the road; that's not next generation.
I can continue to exagerate too, but I'd rather not. I'd like to be more subtle about my appreciation for Rift while using softer adjectives.
And according to you, your looking for more, to expand upon a definition to presuade someone that something isnt what itt is. Thats ok. There will always be 2-3-4 opposing points of view, and Im ok with that. But dont think that your point of view is "the" one either. I dont consider non-crashing servers playing into next-gen;I consider that doing their "job" when promoting a 'massively-multiplayer' platform.
Are you sure i am the one trying to persuade people here into believing something else? if you cared to read properly i never said you are wrong infact what i am saying is that you think that only your interpretation is right one.
No, I said everyone has an opinion and there are 2,3,4 opinions on the same subject, as there should be, and I'm ok with that. However, now I have this experience of someone over-looking that in an attempt to draw an linear line to my opinion about Rift being more of an amalgamation than next-genertaion, that Trion has the potential to enhance the current crop of mmo features into one game that is more complete than most in the past 6-years, that I dont think that because they can keep their servers up and be stable on launch, that to me that isnt synonimous with "next' generation". Just like someone trying to convince me that when I buy a car, the wheels wont come off when I'm 10-miles down the road; that's not next generation.
I can continue to exagerate too, but I'd rather not. I'd like to be more subtle about my appreciation for Rift while using softer adjectives.
In other words you only want to see 'next gen' in your own way. Fair enough. But it still doesn't give you a right to point fingers and blame Trion for baiting players when according to you the meaning of what is 'next gen' is open for interpretation. For me 'next gen' is whole package.
I can't ignore the way dynamic events are handeled, soul system and the tech that finally makes it possible to have hundereds of players online at same time taking part in massive events. For me all of this is next gen because Rift made it possible and if other companies utilize this engine the dream of having 500+ player PVP would not just be a dream anymore.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Personnally, the expression 'next gen ' never really meant much to me. If someone gets super-hyped and puts sky high expectations because he hears 'this game is the next generation'... I think the problem comes from the listener's end.
It's not as if they promised functional features that didn't make it. Frankly since our MMO news sites started following Trion, they were really careful about what they would say. Which explains why the hype for Rift came in quite late in its development.
Let's see if I have this straight. So you think people have no right to be disappointed in the game because they didn't interpret "next-gen" as referring only to the technology that Trion was using? I think that's a stretch to say the least.
[I included the rest of the sentence this quote was part of] When we first began speaking to investors and journalists about Trion Worlds, we could only talk about our general mission, which was, and still is, "to provide an unprecedented level of quality and engagement to player experiences in premium next generation MMOs"
Yep, that's a good mission statement, I've seen a lot of mission statements of a lot of companies and as mission statements go, you state in them what your company aims for to realise, sort of their 'holy goals' of a company, their higher directives. So?
"Though building the Trion platform was an essential step in becoming a publisher of next generation, dynamic MMOs, the tech itself is not our primary focus" hmmmm, really?
Of course not, technology is always only a means to an end. That doesn't mean they can't be proud of the technology or that it doesn't allow to do more things in an MMORPG than possible in other MMORPG's.
"We believe great online games should be dynamic and highly social services - living worlds, so to speak - not static products"
"Technology is only a means to an end. Breakthrough tools can be very expensive and extremely hard to build, and are probably only exciting to technical professionals. But the value of your tool only reaches its potential when used by talented people to create something empowering and inspiring."
Not static products, but living world, technology only being a means, the value of your tool only reaches its potential when used talented people to create something empowering and inspiring. Check, check and check. So far, it all makes sense. What's the problem here?
Etcetera, etcetera. See I can play this little pick the key words from the interviews game too.
I have yet to see an article that says "Hey, we're not going to try to do anything new here. Same old same old. Only thing next gen about our game is the technology and the fact that we are pushing data from the server instead of delivering patches". If one exists, then I stand corrected and admit I am wrong.
I think it's fair to say that MMO customers expect all new games to try and do SOMETHING new and different from their predecessors, expand upon the premise a little. Sorry but I find it ridiculous to tell the community they have no right to be disappointed because a game offers nothing new or exciting and we should have known that if only we had interpreted the press releases/interviews/marketing bs correctly.
I don't think I've seen no MMO company or game company say "we're going to make something same old same old", every single one of them focuses on their key strengths, and say how special/revolutionary/different/better certain aspects of their game will be. I'd think that players have learnt from their years of gaming in general how to regard such statements and information, as in taking things with a grain of salt and not expecting the Second Coming of Christ.
As for something new and different: the rift mechanics and soul classes are something new and/or different, if you're too blind to see how these things are different from the norm then there's little to say about it. That these features don't satisfy your level of 'revolutionary' expectations, doesn't make these features any less different from the 'same old'. Me, I learnt in the beta that the features were what I'd expected based on the information available: I'd give the rift mechanics and soul classes a 7-8 before, and it's what I give them after playing the beta, nothing to be too ultra hyped about (at least, I'm not), but the introduction of a new, different element to the standard MMO features nonetheless.
As for exciting: there are enough people who did find the beta experience exciting, so to them Trion delivered.
Well Aglaranna,, It seems you and I have read many of the same interviews. I am in fact dissapointed,,,, not suprised but dissapointed none the less.
I find it interesting that none of the defenders have had the inclination to refute your quotes that shatter thier mainline defeance in fact they seem to be ignoring your post all together.
I must admit ,, I find it strange MMoRPG actually published this article. Coming off so defeansive over a product you supposedly, have no stake in seems stange indeed.
Let's do this right, shall we, and cut the bullshit of those anti Rift posters that only want to pick a fight and do anything to create a negative vibe regarding a game, just because they can't deal with their disappointment and bitterness (yes, I'm generalising, and yes, I'm very well aware that this certainly doesn't apply to all criticisers and that a lot among them have genuine objections and dislikes).
Added my thoughts to the quote in blue.
@nikkita: meh, I saw you did the same, I could've saved me the trouble. A lot of the same arguments you used, well, they do make sense, no doubt about that
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
We'll see when it comes to releasing that one hmm?
It's stupid to go all paranoia over these things when devs are just being enthusiastic about the game they are making, you can hardly expect them to go all doom&gloom over their own project.
Nor does Rift deserve that, it's a decent game so far.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
didnt convince me, rift is getting much more hype than it is supposed to. End of story.
Compared to SWTOR and GW2 not even close. End of Story.
Bite Me
So a game is good just because the other games are advertising more? Wow... just wow man...
The CEO, Les Buttler himself made teh mistake by press-releasing and hyping this game as next generation, revolutionary, which it isn't. Its an amalgamation, as WAR was an amalgamation. The "many" (people) you refer to here didnt begin this charade.
Who said that? people read what they just want to read.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
until this post of yours I never had an idea they said such things, if its true, why does Bill Murphey state absolutely the opposite in his article? I dont get it... unless as I mentioned above, they are getting paid in ransom for this ... then it makes perfect sense. So my advice: stay the hell away from this game if you dont want to burn your money on another clone...
What are you talking about? who said anything about any game being good or bad? i am just talking about your flawed logic behind advertising. When a game is new it gets more attention as simple as that, it will die down in few months. ,Same will happen with GW2 and SWTOR or any other hyped game.
Bite Me
This is the part that baffles me; in bold for emphasis. I too saw the words, "Next Gen", but since I didn't see anything that defined, "Next Gen", I skipped it as marketing hype. When I saw the description of crafting, with no details, I skipped it as marketing hype. Then I saw the rest of the description and the beta pretty much fit that description.
I hate to say it, but as consumers, it's up to us to filter out the hype from the information. Trion did a much better job than most on delivering information with the hype, but the hype is still there. I think it always will be. Buyer Beware and all that. Except we're not even buying anything.
If you don't like the game, fine, but don't take your own ideas of what the game should have been, the ideas that Trion never mentioned to you* and act like they told you those things were going to be there and then didn't deliver.
* 'You' in this post does not mean MacDeath or Fdzzaigl in particular. It's just that this particular post chain sparked my response.
Also - Merry Christmas Eve everyone! Less than 24 hours 'til Christmas! Well, probably less than 16 for some parents with early rising children. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Are we going to start this discussion yet again? yes game is next gen in terms of the technology behind it and the way dynamic events are handled. Does that provide a next gen 'gaming experince' for playes? indeed.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
"Next generation means an mmo that will advance the genre the day it ships."
- Rift Video
Maybe that's why some people expected more.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Because Les was fishing for funding, and the consequences is this; a whole host of sites posting his bloviating and potential subscribers calling him on it and using his 'spin' talk to get mistakenly overly interested in the game, only to be disappointed that there isnt much next-gen about it. It is a fun amalgamation, and has the potential to garner more attention than mostmmo'sin the past 6-years, but Trion has left themselves just as open to criticism because of it.
People need to lower their expectations and realize that Rift is but a mixture, a merger or "amalgamation" of basic features from other mainstream mmo's, packaged into one. But at the same time, aren't the rest? Anyway, the class system is more similar to or another amalgamation of WoW anyway; the soul system is pulled from WoW, though in Rift, you "equip" the talent tree you wish to use. PQ's are not static as they are in WA, but pulled from WAR none-the-less, and the list goes on.
Trion has the potential to enhance the current crop of mmo features into one game that is more complete than most in the past 6-years, I think;not "next-generation".
So according to you next gen has only one meaning and one interpretation? isn't the tech behind RIFT and the way it can hold hundered of players online without crashing the servers is not next gen enough? i mean what the hell it is just a CB and look how optimized the game is and puts released games like WAR and AOC to shame. There is still room for improvement and optimization will be done further but how is this not next gen?
let me guess because others didn't interpret next gen like you did so they are wrong.
Bite Me
And according to you, your looking for more, to expand upon a definition to presuade someone that something isnt what itt is. Thats ok. There will always be 2-3-4 opposing points of view, and Im ok with that. But dont think that your point of view is "the" one either. I dont consider non-crashing servers playing into next-gen;I consider that doing their "job" when promoting a 'massively-multiplayer' platform.
"But do you honestly think that the folks at Trion did their marketing research and said “There really isn’t anybody who wants this kind of game… let’s make it anyway.”"
Why not?
That's how SOE pushed through the NGE on SWG.
I know Trion is doing market research;I participated in it. There "is" a market for Rift, just has there is still a market for LotRO, EQ, EQ2, WAR, etc.
You're wrong, probably because you're bitter. SOE went after WoW's success (just like Trion is doing now), they probably calculated the whole thing out as much as possible. Companies like SOE dont make irrational or emotional decisions, trust me.
In this video, where this quote is coming from, it becomes clear that their thoughts are that the rift mechanics are 'next gen' and advancing the genre. Which in a way they are a step forward: the rifts overrule the initial content of the area where they pop up, and reshape the look of it and on the routes they create when they invade. And this isn't hard coded included in the script for a specific area as you see with phasing in WoW or DE's in GW2.
So in this way, rifts overruling local content for a while dynamically and the way changes to this system can be made on the fly without a server restart, that could be considered 'next gen', ie the next following step in MMO features, dynamically changing content.
I think that the misunderstanding happens that when hearing 'next gen', people think revolutionary changes, while 'next gen' could also be evolutionary changes, gradual next steps in the progress of MMO mechanics and the MMO genre.
Even more, evolutionary changes are what has been the case in MMO game progression (or any game genre progression, for that matter, shooter, rts, etc), not revolutionary.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Are you sure i am the one trying to persuade people here into believing something else? if you cared to read properly i never said you are wrong infact what i am saying is that you think that only your interpretation is right one.
Hey i am not the one going around telling people that Trion deliberately mislead the players into believing that 'next gen' was in term of gameplay alone. if you think there are 2, 3 or even more opposing points of view why are you going around pointing fingers at Trion for something they never meant? you only do that when you are sure about your own interpretation. Sorry but i smell very foul smell of double standard here.
As far as thei job. the whole damn MMO is their job which also includes making good use of next gen technology to provide stable servers and at the same time make it possible for 500 players and 100's of spawned mob to fight at one place. Every little improvement which pushes the limits of MMO whether its gameplay mechanics or just over all game engine is next gen.
You just can't cherry pick what you like and label it as next gen and ignore the rest.
Bite Me
Ah, here we go: ad hominem argumentation and insulting other posters out of the blue just to make your point.
Weak, but I'm not really surprised. Yep, I've stated that some complainers are in my eyes clearly suffering from burnout, but certainly not all, and also a lot of times that there's nothing wrong with if people dislike (or like) a game since tastes and opinions differ. Regarding the discussion of disappointment and misguided expectations, I've commented on that quite a lot of times too. You must have missed those. Selective reading, I guess.
I'm not entitled to respond on every single argument and post that people make. After all, you seem to be skipping most of my statements as well, only picking those you can start fights over, thus taking things even farther into the negative.
Something like that, yes.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Bite Me
No, I said everyone has an opinion and there are 2,3,4 opinions on the same subject, as there should be, and I'm ok with that. However, now I have this experience of someone over-looking that in an attempt to draw an linear line to my opinion about Rift being more of an amalgamation than next-genertaion, that Trion has the potential to enhance the current crop of mmo features into one game that is more complete than most in the past 6-years, that I dont think that because they can keep their servers up and be stable on launch, that to me that isnt synonimous with "next' generation". Just like someone trying to convince me that when I buy a car, the wheels wont come off when I'm 10-miles down the road; that's not next generation.
I can continue to exagerate too, but I'd rather not. I'd like to be more subtle about my appreciation for Rift while using softer adjectives.
In other words you only want to see 'next gen' in your own way. Fair enough. But it still doesn't give you a right to point fingers and blame Trion for baiting players when according to you the meaning of what is 'next gen' is open for interpretation. For me 'next gen' is whole package.
I can't ignore the way dynamic events are handeled, soul system and the tech that finally makes it possible to have hundereds of players online at same time taking part in massive events. For me all of this is next gen because Rift made it possible and if other companies utilize this engine the dream of having 500+ player PVP would not just be a dream anymore.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Personnally, the expression 'next gen ' never really meant much to me. If someone gets super-hyped and puts sky high expectations because he hears 'this game is the next generation'... I think the problem comes from the listener's end.
It's not as if they promised functional features that didn't make it. Frankly since our MMO news sites started following Trion, they were really careful about what they would say. Which explains why the hype for Rift came in quite late in its development.
Let's do this right, shall we, and cut the bullshit of those anti Rift posters that only want to pick a fight and do anything to create a negative vibe regarding a game, just because they can't deal with their disappointment and bitterness (yes, I'm generalising, and yes, I'm very well aware that this certainly doesn't apply to all criticisers and that a lot among them have genuine objections and dislikes).
Added my thoughts to the quote in blue.
@nikkita: meh, I saw you did the same, I could've saved me the trouble. A lot of the same arguments you used, well, they do make sense, no doubt about that
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."